Sunday chat: Narcoleptic Phillies fighting for survival

The Phillies will simply go to sleep on you, and are likely headed for an early slumber.

Beerleaguer: So because the comatose Phillies couldn't muster an attack against Dallas Keuchel and the Astros Saturday night, in what might have been the worst loss of the season due to the sheer lethargy of it, they're in a must-win situation, down three with 16 to play, counting on a shutdown effort from Roy Halladay this afternoon and a ton of help over the next two-and-a-half weeks. Down, but not out, says ESPN's 2.6 percent odds of making the postseason, which is about where they were Tuesday.

The problem with the offense is that it isn't very good. And if you want to be honest about it, the last time they fielded something to write home about was 2009, maybe 2010 in a stretch, but even the 2010 team shut it down over long stretches. Man, the lineup used to be air tight with big-time power, including a trio of All-Stars in the outfield. Mercy.

So now that I've set the mood, here's today's lineup: Rollins, Pierre, Utley, Howard, Ruiz, Mayberry, Brown. Martinez. See, that's exactly what I mean.

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Comments

[Tony]

How has Howard not had a day off in forever it seems? He had major surgery and is far from 100% and his at-bats haven't looked good lately.

[Scotch Man]

Martinez is in a line up of a must win game. Tells you all you need to know.

[The hook]

Not really caring today. Still pissed about two that got away. Should be 1 behind. Going to focus on my fantasy and my bets that I placed today.

[cut_fastball]

Now batting fourth, Number 00, 'IceAd homineman'.

If what I wrote is a "freak out", you've stayed waaay too long at your sensitivity training class(es).

If truth be told big guy, all I try to do is find the plus points in your long-winded pontifications. When I can muster the energy to read them. Heck, based on your ongoing odes of unconditional love to one Jonathan Papelbon, any “freak out” of mine is small potatoes.

Know your friends. Before they cease to be.

[bay_area_phan]

Back in late July, after we traded Pence & Vic, I was all in favor of throwing Dom into the lineup & leaving him there for the rest of the year. But, when you've pulled back to within 3 games of a playoff spot, it seems kind of preposterous to keep starting him against RHP, when all available evidence says that both Nix and Schierholtz are much better hitters against RHP.

[Voice of Reason]

When other teams get a walk or single or reach on an error, they threaten w the possibility if a quick-strike longball -- even the no-name Astros. Other than Rollins (!!!!!), who is the guaranteed homer threat on our side?

[Iceman]

cut_fastball: You are out of your freaking mind. I loathe Papelbon. I don't know who you have confused me with.

[NEPP]

Had they done their job, they'd be 1 back. There is zero excuse to drop 2 of 3 must-win games to the worst team of the past 10 years.

That's a shame.

[aksmith]

Today feels like a win. I say Halladay comes out looking like the pitcher we've seen too much of lately, but the offense goes crazy and bails him out.

[Iceman]

BAP complimented Schierholtz. Everyone gather canned food and head to your nearest bomb shelter. It's happening.

[aksmith]

NEPP - There is certainly an excuse. But you're not going to like it. This team, as presently constructed, is not good enough to beat the Astros on a regular basis.

However, that has applied to some very good Phillies teams as well.

[bay_area_phan]

"BAP complimented Schierholtz."

Unfortunately, it's not really a compliment to say that he hits RHP better than Dom Brown (.726 career OPS) does.

[aksmith]

I think we're losing perspective. Even back when the Phillies had "an American League" offense in the national league, the envy of every other team, the team consistently lost to non-major league pitchers who they'd never seen before.

Serious question: Do other teams have these kinds of problems facing mediocrities they've not seen before? Because if they don't, I have to wonder what it is about the Phillies that causes this. Could it be poor advance scouting on the major league level? I don't even know who the Phillies major league scouts are, but is it possible they're worse than most other teams' advance scouts?

[Jr.]

What did Nix do to get in Cholly's doghouse> Maybe it was something he didn't do.Cholly has no balls when it comes to sitting Howard.

[bay_area_phan]

If you're feeling glum about last night's events, take heart. If the Phillies win their last 16 games, the Nationals lose their last 17, and the Braves go 5-11 in their last 16, the Phillies and Nats will play a one-game playoff for the NL East title.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

VoR: Ruf.

[Andy]

zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz
zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz
zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz

[GTown_Dave]

Nix is not the answer. That we're even discussing such monuments to mediocrity as he & Schierholtz only serves to highlight what an embarrassing turd of a team this is. Thankfully, they're now only about one or two more lazy turns around the bowl away from finally, mercifully being flushed from our overtaxed area of sensory perception.

[bfpsu]

Howard needs to sit a least one game. He has looked totally lost. He basically gave up on that late inning AB last night. He even said, I can't see the ball. Add to the fact he blew an easy DP, he could use the rest.

[bill barbrough]

Put some Whiskey in your coffee and sack up.

[NEPP]

Both Nix and Schierholtz suck.

There, that was easy.

[bay_area_phan]

The Phillies are 14th among 16 NL teams in runs scored against LHP, ahead of only Chicago & Houston. They are 13th in batting average, ahead of only Miami, Chicago & Houston. They are 12th in OBP and 10th in OPS. And those numbers are for the entire year, so they reflect the contributions of Vic and Pence. Vic mashed LHP. Pence, I'm not sure. His numbers against LHP are terrible this year but I suspect they were considerably better when he was with the Phillies (I don't know how to get double splits).

Either way, it's fair to say that RH hitting should be the Philies' No. 1 off-season priority -- both in the starting lineup & on the bench.

[Ruben Amaro Jr]

***Either way, it's fair to say that RH hitting should be the Philies' No. 1 off-season priority -- both in the starting lineup & on the bench.***

I agree. That's why I'm signing Michael Bourn to a 10 year deal.

[Scott]

bill: Sorry, that schtick belongs to "Kool Earl." You need written permission from him to make a post like that.

[Chuck A.]

E! A! G! L! E! S! ... Eagles!!

[Iceman]

BAP- so I guess you're in the Upton/Youkilis camp for FA signings, then? Or are you still worried about the owners spending any money?

[bay_area_phan]

"That we're even discussing such monuments to mediocrity as he & Schierholtz only serves to highlight what an embarrassing turd of a team this is. Thankfully, they're now only about one or two more lazy turns around the bowl away from finally, mercifully being flushed from our overtaxed area of sensory perception."

I don't think I've ever read anything so poignant since I read "A Tale of Two Cities" back in my junior year college English class.

[Iceman]

Oh wait, nevermind. You think Youkilis is garbage.

[cut_fastball]

Iceman -- It's cool! My "humor" got lost on you.

For what it's worth, I think Papelbon's a terrible signing, too.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I had a couple bourbons and a strong beer for breakfast and last night still looks like death. Feared it was over after they left 'em loaded in the first and knew it after the fourth. Some good college football to watch, yesterday, instead. Expect a win today but, the hill looks too high to climb for this team and, has for months. Lineup and roster are cratered like teh fields of Flanders.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Does Schierholz have an OPS over .600? Guy isn't relevant for the 'playoff push'.

[Iceman]

cut_fastball: all right, my bad then. Just don't ever want to be confused as pro-Papelbon.

[cut_fastball]

I hee ya'.

[sdphillie]

198-99 pitcher against a 6-19 pitcher.

My money is on the other guy, as the Astros are +180.

[sdphillie]

Ugh, leadoff double and sacrifice over just made me regret that last second bookie call-up.

[GBrettFan]

BAP, I understand your point about starting Nix or Schierholtz rather than Brown. I just wanted to say in defense of not doing so: It doesn't matter that much. As others have been quick to point out, this just isn't a good lineup, and we need to accept that we are, as GTown said, going down the toilet. The little run was fun while it lasted, and we may finish strong yet - - but we won't make the postseason barring some kind of phenomenon, because a team that twice loses to the Astros when they couldn't afford to miss an easy win is just not a team that's going places.

aksmith, you asked a question about which I've wondered many a time, too: Do other teams have such struggles against mediocre pitchers? I'm guessing that the fact that the guy's ERA over his past 10 starts was closer to 7.00 than 6.00, that no - Some teams actually do what they're supposed to do and score off bad pitching.

[GBrettFan]

I know Howard's been producing runs, but I still miss the days when you really felt that he could/did carry the team. I wonder if that "Get me to the plate, boys" version of Howard will come back.

[GTown_Dave]

Nice to see the offense picking up right where they left it last night.

[GBrettFan]

Fantastic catch, Pierre! I really like him, noodle arm and all.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: I, too, have really come to appreciate the way Pierre plays the game. He's the type of guy who should succeed as a coach or manager or broadcaster ... whatever he chooses to do once his playing days are done.

[NEPP]

Pierre makes the most of his abilities.

[NEPP]

Mini Mart plays, we win.

Clearly he is the lucky charm.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

And Roy extends the streak of failing to hit with RISP.

[GTown_Dave]

NEPP: Let's not mistake the elf on the box for the actual cereal.

[NEPP]

Assume I'm not being serious at this point in the season.

[Buy sell]

Just think if the phillies win those 2 Houston losses, then the phillies are only a game behind..

I seriously started to fall asleep writing this comment.

[NEPP]

Stupidest feature of any stadium in baseball history.

[Buy sell]

The best comment in the last 4 weeks.. "there goes Michael Martinez - the best there ever was"

[wes covington's ghost]

The old Crosley Field in Cinn. had the same feature in left field.

[NEPP]

***The best comment in the last 4 weeks.. "there goes Michael Martinez - the best there ever was"***

I was rather proud of that one.

[bfpsu]

Jeez, Jose Cruz looks like he hasn't aged at all

[GBrettFan]

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Astros aren't even pretending anymore. Chase Utley intentionally walked ahead of slumping Ryan Howard.

Come on, Howard. Don't let that challenge go unanswered!

[wes covington's ghost]

Wow. How far has Howard fallen? Like to think he'll make them pay, but chances are minimal.

[NEPP]

Pathetic.

[NEPP]

The SS stopped for Sunday brunch before making the throw to 1B and still got Howard by a step.

[can_of_corn]

Watching Gameday. It looks like Howard's patheticism is getting even worse

[sdphillie]

Could have been bases loaded with 1 out for Chooch, instead, Howard tries to handle it himself, and despite Utley's best takeout maneuver, an inning ending double play.

I'm not sure if I'd rather watch this, or the Eagles punt for the next 2 quarters.

[Jack]

Do people not realize that Howard has been one of the worst regular players in baseball since coming back? I know people are giving him a pass for his injury, and that's perfectly reasonable. But let's not pretend that he hasn't been replacement level bad.

[MG]

It's embarrassing how often teams are going after Howard with little fear. Even challenging him with more fastballs of late.

[can_of_corn]

It must be frustrating for Ruf to sit and watch Howard flounder.

[wes covington's ghost]

Actually, the SS could have walked the ball to 1st and had plenty of time.Sam Perlozzo is a better alternative at first now, and he's a veteran.

[tjphillie]

Screw it, I'm going to a TJ Donkey show.

[GBrettFan]

If nothing else, perhaps these games will convince Ruben that our offense needs help that putting Galvis at 2B will not provide. Not unless Galvis is surrounded by a hard-hitting trio of outfielders.

[GBrettFan]

It was inevitable that one of those fly balls go out of the park. And that it be the Astros who hit the HR.

[NEPP]

Ouch.

[Sophist]

What is the Astros HR/FB this series for crying out loud?

Surprised Howard didn't beat that DP ball, though I guess I shouldn't be. To be fair to him, he hammered that pitch. Right at someone.

[can_of_corn]

Not even sure I can stomach this even on Gameday. I keep imagining Doc all sweaty and beet red and Howard glum in the dugout.

[Jr.]

I'd like to blame Howard but I'm going with the a$$hole who gave him the swing sign.

[GBrettFan]

Doc's still only given up 2 runs. If he can hold it there through 7, he'll have done his job. I'm not sure he can, but it's definitely possible.

I'm more concerned about our offense.

The word meek comes to mind. As in, the Phillies are meekly crawling off the stage as the end of the season approaches.

[Phlipper]

Geebus. are they really going to lose three out of four to the astros?

Really?

[Can't beat the Astros]

I had a feeling they would lose 3 of 4 in this series. Horrendous. This alone, should cost Charlies his job. But it won't. Pathetic.

[Sophist]

Utley's OBP is closing in on .600 this series. It's over .560. It's well over .400 for the month. Credit Utley with solid plate appearances, but I think it's well passed time to drop Howard in the order.

[GTown_Dave]

I have no faith that Halladay pitching means anything more than it does when (almost) any other guy goes out there anymore. He's either still injured, or rapidly aging, & neither one of those possibilities fills me w/ great hope.

[Sophist]

Does it really matter what Doc does? His ERA is in the mid-3s since August 1st despite some bad appearances . The trouble is this offense stinks. And it's not like the Astros can play the Cardinals as tough because, unlike the Phils, the Cards can outhit anyone.

[Buy sell]

There is no law Rh had to swing at the 1st pitch.

Why couldn't they play Ruf today at 1st base.. The rest would do us well..

I think the team as a whole is pressing--

THAT WAS PATHETIC - 3 up. And 3 down - 2 ground ball outs..

THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!
THAT WAS F**** PATHETIC!!!!

[GBrettFan]

Yes, I think Halladay is a hugely important question mark for next year.

As is Howard. The hope I'd accrued for next year is fading with these games. I know, I'm fickle.

[Buy sell]

Should 1st pitch that was a strike

[Can't beat the Astros]

Another thing that angers me is when Wheeler and McCarthy talk about the empty park, no energy, have to create your own, etc., etc. Guess what? This team has lost 99 games. Someone (everyone) is beating this team under these same circumstances. So why can't the Phillies?? Stop making excuses. If you can't beat a 99 loss team with the season on the line, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs, and you need to change personnel next season, including the manager.

[SLO Phan]

Where's the fork?? This team is done. Still, they did better than most years, as these guys managed to win one game against the Astros.

[GTown_Dave]

I still have hope for Howard. But people who've never rehabbed a serious injury have no idea how difficult, & flat tiring, it can be, nor how long it takes for the body to truly heal. Ryan was rushed back, & in the end that's only going to prolong the process.

[Sophist]

Halladay has pitched pretty well considering the spring training he had and the injuries he's had. Honestly think his struggles are overblown a bit. 5 K and 1 BB, 2 ER through 4 IP.

[GTown_Dave]

Sophist: I respect that argument, & certainly hope it proves to be the case. Just not at all the same guy this season, which makes my usual negativity hit boil w/ even the slightest application of heat.

[Iceman]

Jimmy the only guy doing his part today against this freaking clown.

[Buy sell]

Finally - Houston's playing like Houston

[GBrettFan]

Too bad Jimmy can't score runs by himeself.

[GBrettFan]

Thank goodness for Pierre & Rollins right now.

[NEPP]

20 HR, 30 SB

Completely washed up.

Right?

[Sophist]

Gtown - Yes. I'm only cautiously optimistic about Doc. But it's not like he's been terrible. Also, having Lee and Hamels means Doc has some room for ups and downs even next year.

Yuan

[Buy sell]

That Hispanic French Of. Sure can play the game..

[Sophist]

Utley's OBP will be .500 at the end of the month if this keeps up.

[GBrettFan]

Will the 2nd challenge be met any more successfully by Howard?

[Iceman]

Halladay deserves a bit of a mulligan for never really getting into a routine this season. Part of it is his fault for pitching hurt, part of it the coaches for allowing it to go on, and part of it is just bad luck.

I pointed out the numbers he's got out of the stretch this year, and they are flat out awful. Could be dumb luck, or something mechanical. But it's something I'm sure he'll address going forward, because he's smart enough to recognize it's a problem.

[lolwut]

it's almost hilarious how they're treating howard as an automatic out. on the other hand it's most definitely depressing.

[Sophist]

Yeah, that was a poor decision to IBB Howard. Like I said, he crushed the ball on that GIDP. And he crushed that one. He has to make teams pay for putting Utley on base 2/3 times.

[GBrettFan]

Yay, Howard! I'm not only happy for the Phillies, but I'm happy for him. That had to feel good.

Maybe a bit overconfident to try for 3, though. But I'd rather a little to much confidence than too little.

[Replacement Level Poster]

Thank you big guy. Please be careful sliding.

[GTown_Dave]

Ryan Howard is sick of getting ripped on Beerleaguer.

[NEPP]

That'll work...a shame he tried for 3B.

[Buy sell]

HA Ha ha ha ha ha Mr.Lyles..

[lolwut]

... and then howard delivers <3