In progress: Phillies-Reds afternoon rubber match

Right-handers Mike Leake and Roy Halladay toe the slab in the third and final game from Great American Ballpark. Michael Martinez starts at third, which is frankly inexcusable when you're working with expanded rosters. The guy stinks. He's hitting .122. He's easily the worst Phillie of the last five years. Quit trying to make Mini-Mart happen. It's not going to happen. Meanwhile, we're waiting for Domonic Brown to happen. His last hit came on Aug. 23. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Joe D]

hahahahaha, donc.

[lorecore]

Some quick hits from b-ref query for non-pitchers:

Lowest BA with min of Minimart's PA: .071 - Ron Karkovice 1987
Most PA ever with a sub .100 AVG: 100 - Ed Connolley 1931

Both were catchers. If you filter catchers out, you get 1909's Jimmy Sebring who qualifies for both, with a .099 AVG in 93 PA.

And dishonorable mention to our own Pete McKanin, who hit a fraction below .100 in 98 PA for the Rangers.

[bay_area_phan]

"I'm sure nobody will agree, but Pap annoys me more than MiniMart."

I try to summon the ability to agree with that statement and, frankly, I just can't do it.

[lorecore]

nevermind, mackanin was an even .100 (9-90), i forgot b-ref is lesser or equal to, not just lesser.

[Muuurgh]

Well, if you aren't going to make history by winning the World Series, why not make it with the worst major league batter of all time when you've got the chance?

[Joe D]

I haven't read the name Ron Karkovice since I was probably 12 and going through my commons box of baseball cards. Jesus.

[lorecore]

uh oh.... the race is on!

Cubs' former top prospect 3B Josh Vitters was called up earlier in August and has amassed 68 PA since, with a current line of .079/.132/.159 - good for a -21 OPS+

MiniMart still has him in PA, but Vitters is playing much more often and could pass him by the end of the year. We really need to start pushing for a Vitters hot streak, or Martinez won't even be the worst player in 2012, let alone history.

Crucial times.

[R.Billingsly]

Good W today. Always nice to win an easy one on a getaway day.

In Re: Martinez. I have no beef with Mini Mart. But the fact that he could potentially be one of the worst offensive players to ever play the game, and he still gets a start every now and again drives me absolutely up the wall. Even the most stringent Charlie Apologist can't defend him on that one.

[Sil Campusano]

Karkovice is now coaching for the Camden Riversharks.

[Joe D]

Wow I didn't know that Sil.

[Bob]

@Lonecore

Vitters jersey is being overnighted to me

[Sil Campusano]

Sharks still have Pete Happy and failed bench player Delwyn Young.

[Bob]

A couple of people mentioned Nunez as a Mini-Mart comp. Not so, to the best of my recollection.

While neither of them could hit a lick, Nunez could field decently. I remember thinking at the time that although he was a void in the batting order, you didn't have fear when a ball was hit to third if he was in.

[Iceman]

St. Louis on the way to a loss today, which would get the Phils back to 8 GB in the standings. If you don't want to read the ramblings of a delusional man that thinks the Phils have the slightest chance to make a run, stop reading now.

25 games left, and the next ten games are the only real chance to take a big slice out of St. Louis's lead. They get three against Milwaukee at home against their three toughest pitchers, then a west coast trip against a hot San Diego team and four with the Dodgers.

Meanwhile, the Phils have 10 against three pathetic teams- 6 at home against Miami and Colorado, and four on the road at Houston (I know Houston has given us problems in the past, but seriously, the team is historically bad this year).

Rip off a 9-1 run against the dregs, with St. Louis going a realistic 4-6 against those teams, and it's a 3 game deficit with 15 to play (even 8-2 cuts the lead in half). Stranger things have happened.

[Bonehead]

Yeah, Ice, I'm with ya. Why not have hope?

[Meyer]

I tried to stop reading but I failed.

[Joe D]

Iceman just got me legitimately excited and optimistic. And believe me that's no easy task.

[awh]

Meyer, I get a "fail" also.

[Kendrick Appreciation Society]

Iceman: Admirable. But while the Cardinals are floundering and the Phils are streaking, what are the Brewers, Diamondbacks, Pirates and Dodgers doing?

[lorecore]

If the Phillies made the playoffs, they'd be favored in every NL series they played.

[can_of_corn]

Ice, I go through those mental gymnastics each day, too. When every NL game ends, I re-visit the standings to try to figure out how we might eke something out. Yep...stranger things have happened.

I read a great article one time (I forget by whom...some of you may recall) that talks about baseball as a game of hope. There is always hope for everyone every season, whether cheering for a just-called-up player, wanting a win on a nice day, counting on a WS appearance, or--yes--hoping that somehow the Baseball Gods will tilt the rest of the season our way.

[Joe D]

If Michael Martinez can be on a major league roster then dammit this team can still make the playoffs!

[johnnysanz3]

For them to make it, they would of had to win games like yesterday's these last few weeks. (Oh and not have that terrible stretch before the AS break)

[gobaystars!]

We've got a chance.

[Iceman]

KAS- I wouldn't call 4-6 floundering. I think it's a realistic record given their opponents during that time.

The Brewers and DBacks are one game ahead of the Phils. If they go 9-1/8-2 against these pathetic teams (arguably the three worst in the NL), I'm fairly sure we catch and pass them. They are six games back of Pittsburgh, and I bet we take a big chunk out of that lead, too.

The team I'd worry about catching in that pack is LA, especially since they play 4 against the Cardinals. They're 7 up on the Phils. It will be tough to make up the same amount of ground on both in these 10 games.

can_of_corn is right about it being a game of 'hope.' Right now we can 'hope' they cut it to 3-4 games with 15 to play. That is very possible with the pitching they are getting right now, and the opponents that are coming up on the schedule. And if they manage to do that, the last few weeks really will mean something, which is all you can ask for after this hellish season.

[Dragon]

Nice 4-2 road trip. Gotta give 'em some credit. They continue plugging away.

[Joe D]

I can't help but think about how much this season is starting to smell like last year's Eagles season.

[The Truth Injection]

The Dodgers go 3 with San Francisco, 2 with Arizona, 4 with St. Louis, 3 with Washington.

[SLO Phan]

As nice as it would be to make the playoffs, I don't see this team going 9-1 or even 8-2 over their next ten. Nothing I've seen in the past 3 months would lead me to believe they have a legitimate shot at doing that.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

"four on the road at Houston (I know Houston has given us problems in the past, but seriously, the team is historically bad this year)."

Fun fact to add to your delusions of a Phillies playoff push - Since the All Star break, the Cincinnati Reds have won more games at Minute Maid Park (5-1) than the Astros have over that span (4-19).

[denny b.]

"Rip off a 9-1 run against the dregs, with St. Louis going a realistic 4-6 against those teams, and it's a 3 game deficit with 15 to play (even 8-2 cuts the lead in half). Stranger things have happened."

That sounds great and all, but St. Louis plays Houston, Chicago and Houston again right after that stretch.

They won't likely lose many of those games. Houston and Chicago are beyond hopeless. Easily the two worst teams in baseball. That Cardinal lineup will destroy the AA-AAA pitching Houston and Chicago will be throwing at them.

St. Louis would have to fold up like Boston did last year. Not likely to happen two years in a row. And Pittsburgh and LA are still ahead of the Phils anyway. Gotta get by them first before you even worry about St Louis.

That Atlanta blown game, I think is going to loom larger in the next 2 weeks. That was just a killer to the minute chances the team had to begin with.

[HammRadio]

for @bap -- here is a shared link to a report on b-r, let me know if you can see it:

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/hxPbE

Min 100PAs sorted ascending by OPS+
It includes catchers... which skews the results a bit...

Martinez will have a hard time getting to a -40!

[DH Phils]

The Phillies' odds of making the playoffs are on the order of the odds of a particular average player throwing a no-hitter on a specific day. That's not that bad.

[bay_area_phan]

Hamm: Thanks! No, he probably can't get to -40, but maybe he could out-do Mike Laga's -12, which would put him third on the list and qualify him for worst offensive season since 1931. Just being in negative territory, though, is impressive. It puts him among the top 20 worst offensive seasons ever.

[Willard Preacher]

I suppose I can put my hyperbole aside for once, and be content with Mini Mart being among the worst 3 offensive players of all time, rather than just the outright worst ever...

I've become quite accustomed to coming up just short this season.

[GBrettFan]

Per Matt Gelb:

Roy Halladay has some ideas as to why the Phillies are playing their best baseball of 2012:
"I feel like the young guys that have come in and play everyday have been good for us," Halladsay said. "They have kind of given us a little bit of life. Our pitching, over the last month, has been better. Consistently, we played some pretty good teams in July and August. Especially August. We come into series against good teams like this and feel like we have a shot to win the series. Early in the year, that wasn't so much the case."

[bay_area_phan]

By the way, I was heartened to see Johnnie Lemaster's name on that list of worst seasons ever. I grew up in Northern California and watched a ton of Giant games as a kid. Lemaster was a decent, but by no means great, defensive shortstop -- and absolutely one of the worst hitters I've ever seen. But, for reasons that elude me to this day, the Giants fans and media thought he was a superstar, because of his (allegedly) great range. I had several good friends who were Giants fans and trying to convince them that Johnnie Lemaster wasn't a great shortstop was like trying to convince Jack that the Ryan Howard contract was an excellent use of resources.

The Johnnie Lemaster memory that most stands out, though, is the day I was watching a Giants game and one of the announcers said -- and this is a verbatim quote -- "There are those who say that Johnnie Lemaster is the greatest shortstop in the history of baseball." Yep, he really said that. It was more than 30 years ago but, when you hear a statement like that, it's like a flashbulb memory: you remember it for the rest of your life.

The funniest part is that, when Lemaster finally left, the local narrative was immediately and completely rewritten -- kind of like they used to rewrite the text books in the Soviet Union after their leader died. Suddenly everyone agreed -- and still agrees to this day -- that Lemaster was the very symbol of those wretched Giant teams from the late 70s and early 80s. But, at the time, they all thought he was the cat's meow.

[GBrettFan]

BAP, if you grew up in CA, how did you end up a Phillies fan?

[awh]

GBrett, let me translate Halladay's quote:

"Ryan and Chase are back in the middle of the lineup and are always a threat, and the moon and stars are properly aligned so Mayberry has become a threat again. Also, that young guy, Kratz, finally got a chance."

[gobaystars!]

For those "arguing" that the Phillies won't make the playoffs and explaining why, those holding out hope offer a hardy "No sh8t, Sherlock."
Of course the Phillies are looking at very long odds and there are a million reasons why the probably won't make it, many of those reasons reside on the Phillies' roster, but why not allow some hope to creep in? I concede that the nay sayers are probably right and if I had to put money on that matter, I'd pick against the Phillies making it. Still, it could happen so why not get excited?

[aksmith]

If I could get the proper odds, I might plunk down a hundred on the Phillies to get to the playoffs. But the odds would have to be about 500-1.

[bay_area_phan]

GBrett: My father, who sometimes posts under the handle Hitman, was born & raised in Philly & has been rooting for the Phillies since the 1940s. He left Philly before I was born and we moved out to Northern California when I was in kindergarten. But my entire family roots, and has always rooted, for the Phillies. In all other sports, I root for the Bay Area team.

And how did you become a Phillies fan living in KC?

[GBrettFan]

awh - One of the reasons I thought Halladay's quote was interesting it reminds me of a reporter's tweet not long ago. (Paraphrasing) "If the Phillies had played like this a month ago, Victorino & Pence would probably still be with the team #goodthingorbad." I was wondering whether the team was better off having shaken the roster up a bit. In light of that, Halladay's words seem to support the notion that it was a good thing to have done so - - although I'm quite sure he would never say outright that it was a good idea to trade away Vic & Pence. And I admit that this is speculative on my part. (I didn't even want to trade Pence and especially not Vic, though.)

Another interesting thing about Doc's quote is the implicit admission that the team lacked confidence in their chances of winning for a good part of the season. It's only human nature for repeated losing to get to the team, in my opinion.

[GBrettFan]

BAP, it must be special to share that rooting interest with your dad. It's great that baseball fandom can be passed from one generation to another even across geographical location.

I only lived in KC a few years, where my dad introduced me to baseball. I continued to root for the Royals after moving to CO (mind you the Royals were peaking at that time - I moved in the summer of 1980 - and the Rockies did not yet exist). Sometime in college, I lost interest in baseball. None of my friends were interested in it & I couldn't get the games on the radio any longer after the Rockies came along. No internet to follow a team then. The last time I watched ball was for the Royals to win the WS in 1985.

My son was a huge baseball fan when he was little & rekindled my interest. We followed the '04 ALCS together. It took me a few years of becoming a baseball fan again before I became interested in the Phillies in earnest rather. (Unfortunately, my son's interest died out.) But I certainly became a Phillies fan at a good time (as with the Royals)!

My loyalty as a fan has not been tested like that of most of you. I stopped following ball before the Royals tanked, and I've only been a Phillies fan since sometime in '06.

Maybe that makes me a good luck charm....hmm...but I doubt it.

[GBrettFan]

Delete "rather". And I should add that I've lived in S. Jersey for the past 15 years.

[awh]

bap, Hitman generally has decent posts, and is sometimes positive. How dod the apple fall so far from the tree?

[awh]

Or maybe I should ask: Did Hitman teach you how to bake a poodle?

[awh]

GBrett, I agree that losing can "get" to a team.

However, I must disagree with you about trading Vic and Pence.

Pence was overpaid based on his 2012 performance and is likely to be overpaid next season. IMHO it was good to get something for him.

Vic, who I loved as a player - he's intense, animated, and unlike many of his colleagues, seems to have a real joy in playing the game. I've posted this before, but IMHO he was underrated as a player for a few years, and was one of the 5 -7 best CF in MLB.

However, it was pretty clear the Phillies were not going to extend him for 5 years, at least at his asking price, and thus, based on the new CBA, it made more sense to move him and get pieces in return that might be able to help in the future.

Vic and Pence were exposed in 2012. IMO the FO expected them to pick up some of the slack while Chase and Ryan were getting healthy, and in that regard, they came up short...........very short.

What I mean is that they exposed themselves as being merely complimentary pieces, not core players on a team.

Don't get me wrong, they're good players who will probably rebound next year (and as I've said I love Shane), but neither one of them is a Howard/Utley calibre player. Neither one of them can put a team on his back the way Howard, and sometimes Utley, can.

That written, I wouldn't be disappointed if Victorino is back in 2013 on a contract the Phillies can live with. Despite his late season hot streaks, John Mayberry has not proven himself to be the player of the level that is Shane Victorino.

Vic in CF, Nix-Schierholz/RFD platoon in RF or LF, and Brown in RF/LF, with two of Schierholz-Nix-RFD on the bench and you have the makings of a decent OF.

[Fatalotti]

Good win by the Phils. 30 hours of driving finally caught up to me, and I ended up falling asleep at my chair while watching the game; wish I had been able to catch a vintage outing by Doc today. Haven't seen one this year.

[norbertods]

Was good to see Doc return to normalcy. This team has always been a great 2nd half team under Cholly. This year is no exception.

Unfotunately, the hole they dug themselves before the AS break will, I believe, prevent them from reaching the "crapshoot".

[bay_area_phan]

awh: Hitman's every bit as negative as I am, if not more so. Hell, we argue about the Phillies all the time and I'm usually the one taking up the optimistic side of the argument.

Fat: You can rest easy; you didn't miss a vintage Roy Halladay outing. He pitched one of those games where he looked to be on the brink of disaster the entire time, but he somehow came away with a solid stat line.

[docjoe]

Would luv to see Vic continue to have subpar numbers then we resign him at a discount or a 1yr deal. We currently have no cf for next yr. RFD a 4th of, Schierholtz at best a 5th of or AAAA guy. Heads up BL fans, Pence may end up with 100 rbi's this yr. He clearly is an extra piece in a good lineup and trading him was a salary dump. If CU and RH were healthy we would be playing in Oct with HP in RF. Let's go eat

[NEPP]

If Vic continues to suck, why would we want him back? He's lost a big step defensively, he'll be 32 and he's a speed-based player.

Huge huge red flags to not bring him back there.

[docjoe]

NEPP would take Vic back cheap 1 yr deal and hope Tyson Gillies is ready after that.

[bay_area_phan]

At the right price, Vic would be worth a shot as a bounce-back candidate. But in the real world, it's hard to believe his price would ever drop low enough to make him a good gamble.

[bay_area_phan]

doc: So would I. But I'd be shocked if he doesn't get a 3-year deal somewhere.

[NEPP]

If Vic were to take a 1 year, $5-6 million deal, he'd be a good idea.

Otherwise, not a chance in hell.

I hope we target Upton and go for another corner OF instead of banking on a Mayberry/Nix platoon (or Schierholtz obviously)

[docjoe]

Justin Upton I hope. Any one out there agree maybe take a chance on Madson as an 8th inning guy. I am hating myself right now, wanting to bring back ex-phils past their primes

[Iceman]

Doc looked very good today, contrary to what BAP claims. He got beat by Votto and Bruce and that's pretty much it. Getting out of trouble is kind of his MO- this year, he hasn't been doing it. Today he did. Hence, vintage.

They aren't getting Justin Upton. BJ Upton is a distinct possibility. I do not think Vic is going to be considered, because Rube is going to want to make a splash.

[wes covington's ghost]

NEPP- I agree on red flagging Victorino for diminishing skills and my continuing belief that he had become somewhat disruptive. No facts, just a feeling.

[awh]

NEPP, here's how I look at it:

.255/.317/.381, 575 PA

.253/.299/.471, 378 PA

The top line is Vic's 2012 slash line. The bottom one is Mayberry's.

Why pay Vic $ 5-6MM for basically the same performance that you can get from RFD for far, far less?

Caveat: That's assuming one is sold on Mayberry's ability to repeat that kind of performance over a full season of PA's.

[lorecore]

Upton's power separates him from the other CF like of Vic, Pagan, Melky, etc.

I'd be pretty happy with him in CF, but realize that he's a pretty streaky guy whose low AVG/OBP can make him rough to deal with when he's off.
He's been mashing of late and prolly made himself a lot of $$ in his last ~ 100PA.

[awh]

wes c g, IMO the only thing "disruptive" about Vic was his contract situation.

He clearly asked for a 5-year deal - said so publicly. The Phillies clearly didn't want the risk of going that long - at least at the price he wants, which is probably more than he's currently making.

So, if they weren't going to extend him for 5 years and he, therefore, decided to test the FA market, it made sense to move him rather than try to get draft picks by making a 12MM "qualifying offer", which based on the season he is having, he might have accepted in order to take a shot at rebuilding his value.

A .255/.317/.381 player is not worth 12MM, and IMHO, he's not even worth the 9.5MM Victorino is making this season.

Disruption? No. Was it nontheless rational to trade him? Yes.

[Bob]

I stated somewhere after the Bloody Sunday 9th inning in Atlanta, I was shooting for a 21-7 finish to get to 85 wins. With that number, I am hoping to be (semi) realistic.

St Louis at the time would of had to finish 13-15, LA and Pitt 15-13, etc and work your way down to Arizona, Milwaukee.

I believe with the cupcakes coming up, there is a possibility at 21-7....and that is all you can ask for.

For my money, hell no that isnt all going to fall into place. But it's nice to see the fight in this group. 2 painful losses this week, 2 bounce backs. Unfornuately, we have few, if any, bounce backs to use.

Great to see solid baseball though

PS...Cowboys and Giants SUCK

[awh]

Oops!!!!

That's what I get for not "cutting and pasting".

Mayberry's slash line for 2012 is .253/.299/.426

The .471 SLG I posted above is his lifetime SLG.

I still stand by my 9:29 post.

[Bob]

21-7 (as of Sunday) gets 85 wins. With the cupcakes coming up and the starting pitching we are getting, that part is doable.

2-1 so far...

Glad to see some good baseball, at the very least. 2 big bounce back wins this week. Only room for a couple, if that many, bounce back games.

[denny b.]

Mayberry started hitting, when he didn't have to look over his shoulder anymore. He could relax and play. And didn't have to worry about learning 1B either. Early in the year, he had to worry about Pierre and Nix taking AB's away from him in LF and at 1B. He got off to a terrible start and Cholly started using Pierre a lot. Its only been since Vic and Pence were dealt and he HAD to play, that he's gotten going.

Just like last year, when Ibanez got hurt and he got to play for an extended period of time.

Maybe the key with him is just put him out there and let him play. Both years, when the Phils have basically been forced to do so, he's produced.

Reading wins Game 1 tonight, 4-2.

[The Hook]

Justin is going to cost wayyyyy too much. Bj and say swish or maybe make a trade. Maybe Cody fn Ross doesn't sign. Maybe a few club op gets denied. The minor system really starting to take off. Hope rube doesn't F it up this time. If they are going over cap then free agents are way to go. I got a sneaky feeling rube is going to come up big...............say for S and G if we would get Josh h and swish. My biggest concern no lead off guy. With bj and say swish we get one and two hitters right there. And the rest fall in place. I am ok with Kevin f and another bench at third as long as the FO fill OF with power guys or just extra base hit guys.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

On this date one year ago, the Cardinals were 8.5 games behind the Braves for the wild card.

[MG]

Playoffs

This team has been a tease of late. Since Aug. 18th, the Phils are 12-6 with 5 of those 6 losses coming in 1-run games.

Aug 21st - Lose 5-4 to the Reds in tough fashion as Lee ran into all kinds of trouble in the 7th & Bastardo/Papelbon leaked critical oil late including Papelbon giving up the gave-winning run.

Aug 22nd - Lose 3-2 to the Reds. Arroyo stifled the Phils and even they rallied to score a run against Arroyo/Chapman in the 9th. Lindblom let up the game winning run late.

Aug. 28th - Lose 9-5 in 10 innings to the Mets. Howard hit a grand slam in the bottom of the first but the Phils couldn't do any damage to the Mets' porous bullpen & Rosenberg eventually gave it up in the 10th.

Aug. 29th - Lose 3-2 in Cloyd's debut. Again the Phils score early but can't do anything against the Mets' bullpen 2 2/3 IP.

Sept 2nd - Lose 8-7 to the Braves. Frandsen's error, Papelbon's meatball, and Larry's walkoff deep into the RF stands.

Sept 4th - Lose 2-1 to the Reds. Phils got jobbed on a couple of crucial calls in a game marked by several poor decisions by the umpires.

If they really wanted to make this interesting, they need to play out of their minds down the stretch. 3-4 of those games were very winnable and they let them slip away late. Only really 'stole' 1 game over the same stretch too (Kratz HR vs Kimbrel and eventual win in extras on Aug 31st).

Basically they would be trailing the Cards by 4 of 5 GB and with their upcoming schedule against some really weak (3 vs Rockies, 3 vs Fish, 4 vs Astros, 3 vs Mets), things could have been really interesting by the time the Braves had rolled into town on Sept. 21st.

[Iceman]

Mayberry got plenty of time to play full time when Nix got hurt. He was an offensively liability and did not help the team.

Maybe he is just a second half player. It's not unheard of. This whole team is a second half team. It isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Iceman]

MG- here's how I look at it. The six game stretch they just completed was seen by everyone as the toughest week they'd have to play through the rest of the season. They didn't lose any ground (and frankly should have gained, but that doesn't matter at this point). I take that as a net positive.

We all knew they had to go on a torrid streak at some point to make this interesting at these next ten games are essentially 'it,' both because of the weak opponents and the basic math. If it doesn't happen in the next week+, it ain't going to happen. But it is possible. And for that reason, it's worth watching.

Two losses I look back on aren't as much the Mets games as they are 1) The Atlanta game they just choked away, and B) The game in LA where they had a 2-run lead in the 10th and lost. Common thread: Papelbon blowing a multiple run lead. Just shouldn't have happened. He's had a solid year numbers wise but he's really failed the team more than they could afford. In my opinion, worse than Lidge in '09. That team still won the division in a cake walk. If they lose out on a playoff spot by a few games this year, you can point right at the games Papelbon p*seed away.

[Bob]

Many things can be pointed at if this team misses the playoffs:

-The Papelbon blowups
-Halladay's injury (the biggest killer)
-Lee's inconsistency
-Lack of middle relief
-Howard and Utley out until late June
-Above helped stem a very inconsistent offense

I never believed this team was as bad as that horrid 9-24 stretch from late May-early July. The way they are playing now, with the starting pitching, decent bullpen and enough offense...this is probably a 88-91 win team at this pace.

Hopefully better luck awaits

[Bubba]

Caught parts of the game on radio today.
Two observations-
My wife asked me who those announces were and why weren't they on TV? I had no answer.

I used to umpire kids games years ago and I still have a ball /strike indicator in my junk drawer. Can this crew of stellar umps who , who make more than the minimum wage, not afford such a device? Maybe even spring for one each so they don't embarras themselves every game?

Mini-rant over.

[bay_area_phan]

Mayberry's a lot like Ibanez was in his last 2 years with the Phillies: when he's locked in, you want him in the lineup regardless of the handedness of the opposing pitcher. But for the remaining 80% of the season, he's strictly a platoon player & should be treated as such heading into 2013.

[GTown_Dave]

Turned on yesterday's game. Saw f*ckin' Martinez was starting. Again. Turned off yesterday's game.

I'm glad the Phillies won, but there's only so much I can take. His continued presence is a slap in the face to fans.

[Dragon]

This team might make-do with a platoon in one of the outfield positions, but as far the other two positions, they need serious players who can contribute over the course of the full season if they want to return to the postseason.

[joe l]

Speaking of platoons, I wouldn't bring back Mini Mart next year to platoon with the bat boy.

[Will Schweitzer]

One of two things is going on here:

1. Charlie is giving Minimart enough rope to hang himself in the hopes that Amaro is forced to stop defending his Rule 5 pick and remove him from the roster for 2013.

2. Charlie really is that stupid and/or puts his personal feelings toward his players ahead of the good of the team.

[R.Billingsly]

2

[Chuck A.]

Here we go with the blatant Charlie hatred again.

[lorecore]

-3

...

No i'm not adding a 3rd scenario, I'm just typing Martinez's current OPS+, negative 3!

[lorecore]

Josh Vitters with another 0for as well, he's down to a -24 OPS+, seems like hes getting an everyday chance at 3B for remainder of year.

Lets hope he can "get hot" and go like 1-4 every once in awhile.

[denny b.]

"Mayberry got plenty of time to play full time when Nix got hurt."

He played "full-time" from the start of the season to April 15th. He didn't hit well. That was about 10 games worth. Then Pierre, Wiggy and Nix started playing in his place.

Then he played again "full-time" from May 7th to May 28th, and raised his average from .206 to .238 during that stretch.

Finally, he played full-time (mostly thanks to IL play) from June 13th to June 30th. Didn't hit much during that period. Howard came back and Pierre was playing everyday in LF.

He got "plenty of time" in short spurts this year, before the trades. He never was shown much confidence though and had a short rope with Cholly.

When he has basically been forced to play over longer stretches (from late July to now in 2012) and in the summer last year when Ibanez was hurt, he has excelled.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

My wife asked me who those [radio] announcers were and why weren't they on TV? I had no answer.

Plain and simple. Radio announcers have to be stronger than TV announcers because there's no images to fall back on.

[Iceman]

"Then he played again "full-time" from May 7th to May 28th, and raised his average from .206 to .238 during that stretch."

Given that he had 49 ABs up to that point, raising his pathetic BA .32 points during that stretch isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. He hit .270 during that stretch in May with 2 HRs.

As you said, before this recent stretch he had three prolonged chances to start and stunk in during two of them. I'm not sure how that translates to 'doing well when given the chance to start consistently.'

[Iceman]

And the guy he had to outplay was Juan Pierre, basically. They have no other RH OF option besides Pigginton, if you want to count him since they make him stand in the OF occasionally.

Pierre outplayed him. That's why he was benched for periods. But he certainly wasn't a spot starter. He had his chances to contribute and is finally really taking advantage of it. Good for him.

[Fatalotti]

lorecore, I just went on Fangraphs, and filtered across all baseball, all hitters with at least 50 PA. I then sorted by wRC+ (which works much like OPS+, but I believe is a little more accurate) in ascending order.

The first 19 names are all pitchers, then Josh Vitters, with a -31 wRC+. the next 6 names are, again, all pitchers. Then Michael Martinez, at -15 wRC+.

This is the kind of rare territory that Martinez is in. At least Vitters is 22, and actually put up a couple decent seasons in the minors. Martinez is 29, does not have even a minor league resume that is boast-worthy, and has been completely and utterly worthless at the big league level in 318 PA, being worth an appalling -1.3 wins over that time.

To his eternal credit, though, he's only been the 4th worst player in the majors this year in terms of WAR/PA.

His -.0119 WAR/PA isn't quite as bad as Brian Roberts' -.01486, Ryan Kalish's -.01596 or Vitters -.0169.

But again, Kalish and Vitters are still prospects and can still hang their hats on potential, and Roberts was at one time, not too long ago, one of the best 2B in the game.

Martinez has no such claims to make, and as such, is without arguments, the worst position player in the majors.

[Fatalotti]

New thread.