Game chat: Year of the 'tweener' continues for Phillies

After 44 starts and 184 plate appearances, third baseman Kevin Frandsen is hitting .331/.383/.438 and the Phillies are 27-21 since handing him the hot corner. That's not to say he's the longterm solution, because the Phils have suggested he isn't. But that's not bad production, and .254/.309/.522 and 9 home runs is nothing to sneeze at from tonight's backstop Erik Kratz. The truth of the matter is that in the post-steroid era, the line between AAA journeymen and fringe major leaguer has been dramatically blurred and the Phils are discovering there's value to be had in trusting pre-arb tweeners. Just ask Laynce Nix and Ty Wigginton, or injured veterans Brian Schneider and Placido Polanco, or that total loser Chad Qualls. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[SLO Phan]

That would be a great topic: biggest losers the Phils have ever had. I'd vote for Adam Eaton.

[Scott]

There are no Winners in a Loser competition.

[Willard Preacher]

I'm leaning Eaton, but I'd have a hard time not casting a vote for David Bell.

[Scott]

Hard to argue Eaton, although I'd rather vote him as the Biggest Jackass in Phillies history.

[donc]

Eaton would win any loser competition in a landslide. Eaton is even considered a disgrace in the vermin community. Freddy Garcia and Danny Tartabull get honorable mentions in my book but at least they had injury concerns.

[Willard Preacher]

Eaton's ability to willingly suspend disbelief and not see how puke-inducingly awful some of his outings were was probably the tipping point.

It's one thing to suck (the Phillies could field an All Star team over the years). It's quite another thing to troll every other human on the planet by either not even remotely acknowledging said suckitude, or belligerently denying it ever even happened. And it was an almost daily occurrence (ok, every 5th day...).

[Scott]

In addition to Eaton's refusal to stay ready in the event of the horrifying chance that they might actually need him to pitch, he came into Spring Training in '09 basically saying "It doesn't matter if I pitch well or even try. They don't like me and they don't want me, so who cares??" A real man would have shut up and pitched so well that the Phillies had to make a hard decision about letting him go.

http://zozone.mlblogs.com/2009/02/13/eaton-knows-his-future-is-elsewhere/

[bigmyc]

WP, David Bell couldn't reasonably be put there with Eaton simply based upon his seismic home run with 2 outs and 2 strikes in the 9th vs. the Reds...and, I think he even pulled a pitch on the outside half of the plate to win it.

donc, Freddy Garcia should rank at the tops simply on the merit of his 'famous last words' type comment that went something like this, "I'm happy to be on this team (Detroit). They care about winning. It's something that's important around here."...this comment was made in early 2008.
Vote his loser status accordingly.

[J. Weitzel]

It's Freddy Garcia over Adam Eaton by a nose.

[GBrettFan]

Mandy Housenick ‏@inthephilshouse
#Phillies lead all of MLB in attendance with more than 3.5 million fans this year. Cole and papelbon addressing the crowd.

Do you think this would still be true if they did a count of the gate v. tickets sold?

[Willard Preacher]

"Do you think this would still be true if they did a count of the gate v. tickets sold?"

Judging simply by mlb.tv streams and the BL site traffic the 2nd half of this season, I don't think so. Overall interest in the Phillies was relegated to the die hards/lunatics among us for a good sized period there around and after the ASB.

They get to count all those season ticket sales, which I'm sure greatly inflates their number (but probably not as much as it does to a team like the Mets).

[Willard Preacher]

Consider this my impassioned last second plea for pink shirt guy to make an appearance at tonight's last home game.

[GBrettFan]

Gio Gonzalez is pitching? Sorry, GTown.

[Willard Preacher]

"We say goodbye to Philadelphia, at least for the regular season, for the Phils." - TBag

I'm not even going to comment on this guy anymore...

[Willard Preacher]

Doesn't he realize that he's KILLING our narrative???

https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/251441289520893954/photo/1

[Willard Preacher]

And that keeps Cloyd's HR per game streak alive!

[GBrettFan]

I'd really like them to win their last home game, but it'll be tough.

[wes covington's ghost]

My God was that ever a meatball..

[Willard Preacher]

Ruf should be able to get that one back in no time.

[bay_area_phan]

Watching Gameday during a Tyler Cloyd start is always amusing. Last inning's pitch-by-pitch tracker includes:

86 MPH 4-seam fastball
87 MPH Changeup

[GBrettFan]

Really changing up the speed on that change-up, eh?

[Sil Campusano]

Every time I see Gio Gonzalez I think about Freddy Garcia, and in turn want to puke.

[Mick O]

I was thinking that if Utley attempted a steal after 2 strikes and was caught, that would give Ryan Howard the opportunity to come up next inning and thus look completely lost on 5 total strikes for his strikeout.

[Willard Preacher]

Does anyone know if "shutting Strasburg down" means that he's not throwing bullpens/on-the-side etc.?

[Willard Preacher]

Ruf!!!!

[Meyer]

Ruf has great power and plate discipline. Wow.

[Willard Preacher]

"Ruf should be able to get that one back in no time.

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Thursday, September 27, 2012 at 07:13 PM"

I was off by a couple runs.

[The Hook]

Shame we don't have any hitting prospects. Small size but you have to be impressed with brown and ruf and their approaches at the plate.

[Willard Preacher]

Meyer, that plate discipline is enviable, especially after watching Howard swing at a ball that bounced in the right handed batter's box a few batters earlier.

[Sil Campusano]

Nice to have a RH bat with some pop.

[Dickie Thong]

Too bad Ruf can't hit major league pitching...LOL.

[bay_area_phan]

The Phillies would be leading the division by 10 games right now if only they had called up Darrin Ruf in May.

[awh]

And this is the guy who sat on the bench while the offense floundered in Houston?

Would he have made a difference? Well, we don't know, but he sure looks better than Wiggy.

He's making a case for himself.

[Willard Preacher]

Brown and Ruf employ the exact opposite plate discipline of Hunter Pence.

Kind of refreshing.

[Unikruk]

I thought that ball had a chance at the wall off of Ruf's bat, didn't miss the salami by much. Holy moly did he ever crush that ball, one of the harder line drives of the year.

[Willard Preacher]

With Kratz, it's just nice to have a catcher that Charlie feels he has to lift after the 6th inning on Chooch's "off days."

[Willard Preacher]

*doesn't have to lift...

[NEPP]

There goes Darin Ruf, the best there ever was.

He crushed that double.

[Meyer]

Score that a mix-up.

[GBrettFan]

I feel like we really should have scored at least one run in that inning. No way can Cloyd hold a 1-run lead.

[bay_area_phan]

I always feared that, as Ryan Howard got older, he would turn into Carlos Pena, without the walks or Gold Glove defense. Alas . . .

[Brooklyn Phillies]

A 3-run double? Are we paying this guy to hit doubles now?

[Meyer]

I always feared that KLaw was correct with the "bad body" comment.

[R U Dickey]

Does Sandberg get some credit for the success of Brown, Ruf and Cloyd?

[EastFallowfield]

Do you think this would still be true if they did a count of the gate v. tickets sold?

Seems like our worst playing-out-the-string crowds still look better than many teams midsummer weekend crowds.

[Dave Campbell]

Sandberg gets no credit for Cloyd since he pitched in AA not AAA.

[Unikruk]

Not only makes me cringe when T-Mac calls Brown "articulate", also makes me cringe when we both know it's coming and he can't find a better way of expressing the idea.

[Meyer]

If Ruf could run, he could make a run at .400.

[NEPP]

You know, it was really smart to start Wigginton over Ruf when we were still theoretically in it.

[Meyer]

Ruf plays the wall as if he played the outfield for years.

[Meyer]

Dusty Watham may have helped Ruf at Reading.

[horton hears a who]

Sarge is absolutely clueless...he and TMac are so annoying. One would think Sarge would at least be aware of the score before entering the booth.

[bay_area_phan]

"Does Sandberg get some credit for the success of Brown, Ruf and Cloyd?"

Considering that Cloyd has been bad as often as he has been good, Dom's career .715 OPS hitter would place him near the very bottom among qualified corner outfielders, and Ruf never played for Sandberg (and has had all of 12 major league ABs), I'm gonna hold off my ebullience over Ryne Sandberg's talent at developing players.

[ramsey]

To put Ruf's recent performance in perspective, here were his minor league splits this year in Reading:

vs. RHP -- .284 / .377 / .522
vs. LHP -- .392 / .480 / .845

Given this, I'm not really surprised to see him hit lefties in the majors. I'd expect him to struggle vs. righties though.

[bay_area_phan]

Remember when Ryan Zimmerman's defense was supposed to be in decline?

[EastFallowfield]

TMac thinks the Phils could still make the playoffs but doesn't think the Braves will catch the Nats, even though Atlanta's a game and a half and a bunch of teams closer.

[The Truth Injection]

Ruf may be playing himself into a long look in left field next spring.

The Qualls line made me laugh.

[clout]

TTI: I'm not as impressed with an 11 AB sample size as you are, but I'd say regardless of his MLB stats, Ruf deserves a long look next spring.

[Meyer]

Cloyd had his chance. Good for him.

[bay_area_phan]

Cloyd is clearly one of those guys who, when he's bad, is really bad.

[GBrettFan]

I've seen enough of Cloyd. - So has Charlie, apparently.

I know that he's not the only Phillies pitcher afflicted with the propensity to surrender HRs, but I'm not exactly feeling high on him.

[MR]

Wow. Are they better at every position except 2b and c?

[GBrettFan]

8 HRs in 33 innings, was it?

[mainerob]

If Cloyd is not KK redux, I don't know who is. With so many arms in the pen, why did Manuel trot him out to start the 6th. I know the season's over, but you play the games to win them until you're eliminated or you are trying to keep the front-runner from gaining anything.

I seriously think Cloyd is Exhibit A for the difference between the high minors and the majors. He's not worth spending any more time on to hone whatever skills he may have. Low, low ceiling.

[Mick O]

C.l.o.y.d.: Currently located over yonder deck.

[MR]

Longest stint by a starter this series, so there's that.

[TMan]

If you can hit the best pitcher in the NL, you can flat out hit. In the tradition of Pat Burrell, lets give him a shot at LF next year!

[EastFallowfield]

Why does pitching for the team with the best record in MLB make you more deserving of a Cy Young than winning 20 or more with a lousy club??

[Meyer]

Brown appears more focused following Ruf.

[mainerob]

What the fvck are you stupid announcers talking about? Follow the damn game, you idiots. Stop it, Sarge. Shut the fvck up.

Stop, stop, stop!!!!!

Who cares about the Cy Young. Shut up!!1

[Mini Mart]

Put me in, damnit!!!

[mainerob]

Kratz has really come down to throes of reality. Yikes. Bad swing on strike three.

[MR]

Mainerob:
Just wait until they show the Phanatic.

[mainerob]

I'm on pins and needles, MR.

[bay_area_phan]

Have I ever mentioned that I can't stand Nate Schierholtz?

[The Truth Injection]

clout: Don't lump me with the crazies.

I like the fact that he seems to work the count at the plate a little bit, and he clearly has some nice pop in his bat.

[Sil Campusano]

Cloyd should be the guy you keep in AAA and call up to make emergency starts.

[curt]

Relax, bap, SF forced Rube to take Schierholtz; he'll be gone soon enough.

[MR]

TTI:
Don't forget that another thing you like about him is that he's not one of those other guys.

[curt]

"Cloyd should be the guy you keep in AAA and call up to make emergency starts."

...and not the 6th guy, but the 7th or 8th one.

[Meyer]

Kratz really throws well from his knees. Imagine Kratz rested with limited duty next year. This is a long season for most of these guys. Especially a catcher.

[Meyer]

Ump squeezing Horst. Horst8hit.

[bay_area_phan]

"Relax, bap, SF forced Rube to take Schierholtz."

Somehow that makes me even angrier. Nate Schierholtz is so bad that he couldn't even break into a starting OF that includes the hapless Gregor Blanco. Hunter Pence had an .871 OPS last year, and was the same guy for whom we traded away 2 top 100 prospects plus a 20-year old oufielder with a .921 OPS this year. And the Giants are the ones who are in position to demand that we take their disgruntled part-time outfielder, who just happens to be almost exactly the same player as the part-time outfielder we only have, only worse?

[Meyer]

If this inning gets to Ruf we win.

[curt]

I'd say your anger is misdirected. Schierholtz didn't make those trades.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

What are the odds Howard gets the run in from 3d against Burnett? 50:1?

[Meyer]

Howard did bust it down the line.

[Mini Mart]

Zero? Dude, should have PH'ed me for Ryno!

[Meyer]

Machs Nix

[Meyer]

Ruf screwed on a callout. WTF

[Iceman]

Vintage BAP from the last thread:

"Quite honestly, Pagan kind of gives me Chone Figgins vibes too. And something tells me that, by the time free agency comes around, the meme of the underrated Angel Pagan will have been played up so much that some team will end up overrating him & paying him far more money than he's actually worth."

First off, who should we listen to: Dave Cameron, one of the best baseball minds in America, who says Pagan is the most underrated guy in baseball, or BAP, who gets bad 'vibes' from him?

Second: I bet BAP could not even fill a roster- nay, a starting 9- with players he thinks are worth a damn. He's gushed over Martin Prado. He seems to love BJ Upton and his .240 batting average. Other than that, I don't think he's mentioned a player unless to say how he is 'complete and utter garbage.' It would probably be a five person team- he'd tell Prado and Upton to play three positions each.

[Meyer]

Diekman looked sharp against the mid-section of good team tonight.

[GBrettFan]

I stopped watching a while ago. But someone just told me it's Mike Schmidt's birthday, just in case you didn't know (I didn't). Happy Birthday from someone who thought your counterpart in KC was the best 3baseman (I was entirely biased at the time).

[GBrettFan]

Phillies are back to losing series. I'm still hoping to end on a high note. Beat the Nats in their park. After beating Miami, that is.

[Chris "Wheels" Wheeler]

Just remember fans,that sky high can of corn has to last you a good 5 months.

[DH Phils]

"Morse had two home runs tonight; one was longer than the other."

Hopefully, thus ends the home broadcasting career of Tom McCarthy.

[GBrettFan]

Sorry it wasn't a great game, GTown. I definitely picked the right game of the homestand to attend.

[MR]

DH Phils:
If only....

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: Here you go -- a lineup of 9 players I've praised liberally on Beerleaguer:

C Chooch (Backup: Kratz)
1b Ruf
2b Prado
SS Zobrist
3b Freese
LF Pence
CF Upton
RF Swisher
P Lee

I left out the likes of Mike Trout, Albert Pujols, and Miguel Cabrera, as I wanted to make this somewhat more difficult for myself.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Is it over?