Game chat: Pride on the line as Doc wraps it up

No Ryan Howard, and no carrot, as Roy Halladay seeks a strong finish to his spotty, injury-riddled 2012 season tonight in the middle game between the Phillies and Marlins. First pitch is 7:10. In other news, the Phils are pulling the plug on Tyler Cloyd, who has thrown exactly 200 innings between the minors and majors. Cloyd was set to pitch Tuesday. It's looking like a bullpen game. B.J. Rosenberg is the only other pitcher on the roster who is stretched out to handle multiple innings. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[GTown_Dave]

I enjoyed the ball fouled off of the popcorn bucket, myself. Halladay's hustle had me half cheering, half expecting him to stroke out right there on the base paths.

[MG]

Horst has been one of the most pleasant and unexpected surprises this year.

It's not all 'smoke and mirrors' with him either since his K/9 rate really jumped this year because has added 2 MPH to his fastball and has really had an improved slider. Remember him saying earlier this year when he came up that Nichols really helped him a lot at Lehigh especially on his slider grip.

[GBrettFan]

Choooch! A very bright spot in this season.

Now Jimmy has scored 100 runs for the 6th time in his career. Congrats, JRoll.

[GTown_Dave]

The Phillies should give Chooch a bonus of $300,001.00

It's only right.

[NEPP]

That was nice.

[can_of_corn]

Is that the first IBB ever for Dom (in the majors anyway)?

[Chuck A.]

Choooooooooooch!!!

And that's 100 runs for Jimmy... you know, the man (along with Howard) that everyone loves to hate.

[cut_fastball]

If this team has a shred of go88amm decency, they will tear up Carlos Ruiz' contrract, and sign him to a 3/$30mm contract. This November. Outrageous!

[GTown_Dave]

can_of_corn: Looks to me like it was his 4th.

[RR]

Phillies have clinched 3rd place, because Mets just lost.

[bullit]

you are absolutely right, cut.

[Chuck A.]

We're so used to "clinching" that it's hard to not use that word...even if it's just for a mediocre 3rd place. But's good...I guess. Now let's finish at .500 and put this puppy to bed.

[can_of_corn]

Thanks for the stat, GTown.
(Speaking of IBBs, the most outrageous this year was when MiniMart was walked. I suspect that was both his first and last time to receive that distinction.)

[cut_fastball]

Listening to the Phils on the radio (thank God for Franzke and LA!) and watching the O's game on TV. I have no life.....

Posted by: Chuck A. | Saturday, September 29, 2012 at 08:43 PM

I hear you, Chuck. I have a lovely wife and 2 terrific kids. An a job that consumes up to 60 hours/week. Listening to Franzke/Anderson is one of very few guilty pleasures in my life. I honestly believe they match up well with Harry/Whitey.

As an aside, I'd simply love to blow this team to kingdom come; start over with prospects, and wait 3 -5 years to get to the 95+ win plateau again. I have no faith whatsoever that Cole Hamels; Doc, Lee; and some faded pieces of the '08 team; and a bunch of AAA players are going anywhere. This season, or any season.

Problem is, I have no time to scour the minor league scouting reports and other resources to speak intelligently about what young players -- in my fantasy world of discharged big$$ contracts -- might be sought after. Life sucks sometimes.

[can_of_corn]

You know things are not that interesting on the field for the tv crew when they start showing shots of fans' toes. Something I personally do not care to view in HD

[Chuck A.]

cut - Well said.

And the O's just won. Tied for 1st with 4 to play.

[Chuck A.]

And my night is now complete. MiniMart has made an appearance.

[MG]

They couldn't even 'blow up this team' even if they wanted to and that would be ridiculous for several reasons.

Amaro has to have a good offseason, get a little luck on 1-2 secondary signings including a veteran reliever, and catch some better breaks on the injury front next year.

Not like this was a 70 or 75 win team or a team that didn't play notably better in the 2nd half. They are 41-29 (.586) and look like they are headed to 42-29 (.591). That translates into a 94 or 95 win team over a full 162-game schedule.

There are enough reasons and enough talent here to still be optimistic about this team's chances to contend for the playoffs and maybe even the NL East next year.

Only way I will really be down on the team is if they have several questions through spring training next year including Utley & Halladay.

[can_of_corn]

And MiniMart works his magic once again.

[Chuck A.]

That was just piss-poor in just about every way. MM has a 3-0 count, then strikes out attempting a bunt, and then the just ridiculous base-running by Frandsen. WTF!

[GBrettFan]

Yep, Chuck.

[bullit]

pleeeeeeeeez replace tmac with doug glanville.

[clout]

You'd think someone like Mini Mart would learn how to bunt somewhere along the line.

[Meyer]

I'm hoping for a 4 hour game. Listening to Franzke and LA continues to be a pleasure.

[cut_fastball]

MG -- Oldest team in the ML, correct? Uhhhhhgggghhh.

My nickname on this board should be "Doubting cut_fastball" (apologies to St. Thomas).

[Chuck A.]

Juan Pierre is pretty amazing.

[MG]

Amaro does have to do a better of building the bench this offseason. Phils' PH have been pretty pitiful this offseason and rank 13th in NL in AVG, 13th in SLG, and 13th in OPS.

Here is a quick run down (coming into tonight):

Wigginton (5-32, .156 with 1 XHB and 10 Ks)
Nix (4-23, .174 with 2 XBHs and 11 Ks)
Mayberry (7-22, .318 with 1 XBHs and 7 Ks)
Fontenot (5-18, .278 with 5 Ks)
Thome (1-16, .063 with 1 HR and 11 Ks)
Pierre (3-16, .188 with 0 XBHs)

Part of that is one Amaro. Nix is a terrible PH. Ditto Thome. There valuable is in starting. Pretty useless as bench players.

Wigginton is just done. Poor move by Amaro.

Mayberry is a good PH option because most of the time he will face RHP reliever. He is now 16-58, .276 AVG with 2 HRs as a career PH option). Schierholtz is also a quality PH option. He's 3-6 in a Phils' uniform this year and is a over a career .300 AVG.

I really hope that Amaro uses a bit more sense in putting together his bench next year and not trying to force square pegs into round holes (Thome as a PH option).

[GBrettFan]

Chooch isn't happy with his mistake. He knows Aumont doesn't need help putting on baserunners.

[MG]

cut - Your analogy translates into that since you have an older house with a leaky roof and a foundation that lets in some water you are better off burning it to the ground, collecting limited insurance money you get for the claims you file, and living outside in a tent for next few years.

[Not Cliff Lee]

"You'd think someone like Mini Mart would learn how to (fill in the blank) somewhere along the line."

Edited for correctness.

[MG]

Dumber move by Cholly?

Bruntlett in LF as a 'defensive replacement for Burrell' or Mini Mart in LF as a 'defensive replacement' in LF for Pierre?

Cholly had said a lot of things in the last week he would like to see improved in 2013. I would like to see him put his players in better positions to succeed next year. He hasn't had a good year managing.

[RR]

Cloyd isn't the only minor leaguer who's gassed.

[cut_fastball]

MG -- Probably a pretty close analogy. However, the longer we lean on Utley, Howard, Rollins and Lee (assuming Doc's option is not exercised) the less the chance of success.

...And so castles made of sand, fall into the sea; eventually...

[MG]

10 BBs now in just 13 2/3 IP for Aumont. Amaro's borderline delusional if he thinks Aumont is capable of being a dominant reliever in as a setup guy.

[GBrettFan]

It's the dreaded 8th inning, proving to be difficult to survive once again.

[can_of_corn]

Has Heath Bell gotten even pudgier, or is that simply the uniform?

[MG]

Aumont lacked any mental fortitude tonight out there on the mound either. Struggled with his command initially and just mentally didn't focus after he threw a couple of balls initially.

One of the few guys that Dubee has gone of his way to critcize/even badmouth and Cholly looked pretty disgusted tonight when he had to come out to pull Aumont.

Just can't be a MLB reliever if you have outings like this at least once a week and don't throw strikes/mental focus. Raw talent only gets you so far.

[Chuck A.]

"And so castles made of sand, fall into the sea; eventually..."

Love this analogy.

[MG]

can - He's a complete lardo now. Thought it hilarious on how Bell criticized Guillen for several things including not telling him to his face that he lost his closer's job this season.

You had to think that Guillen was thinking 'well maybe if you had gotten in shape this offseason you fat f@ck instead of coming into camp overweight and out of shape things might have been a bit different for you'

[Meyer]

In the defense of the minor leaguers, they already experienced the death throes of a failed pennant race.

[MG]

From what limited stuff I have seen from De Fratus & Aumont, Aumont has the more impressive raw stuff but De Fratus is the more polished of the two & the better pitcher right now.

[GTown_Dave]

Thanks, Carlos Lee!

[Chuck A.]

That was the funniest tag at home I have ever seen. But it worked.

[MG]

Not going to make a highlight reel but take it.

[mainerob]

What is it both with Chooch and Bastardo? Lucky to get fat Lee at the plate. Any other runner and it's one run closer.

Another ugly 8th inning. I don't see anyone handling the 8th consistently well on the current roster. Amaro has to go outside the organization to find his man.

[can_of_corn]

Re: Bell's disagreement with Guillen...I've never understood players who go out of their way to badmouth the organization to the press. Not that I like Ozzie either, but it's just plain common sense to keep your mouth shut in public.

[MG]

This bullpen NEEDS an 8th inning caliber setup man/quality RHP reliever and all of the other pieces start to fall into place.

Phils just don't have that guy in their system right now and it is up to Amaro to get that guy this offseason.

Don't want to hear the lazy statement 'well relievers are completely fungible from year to year and it isn't worth spending money on them.'

Agree somewhat but the Phils have scoured their system this year and given almost everyone a tryout. That guy the Phils need just isn't in their system right now. Need to get him or they will have a lot of the same issues next year.

There's enough depth right now with Bastardo, Horst, Aumont, De Fratus, and Lindblom that they can round out the rest of the pen internally.

[Meyer]

I love this game. Who's warming up? Hoping for extra innings.

[Iceman]

Reading this thread gives me the same feeling I get when I sit down at a bar for a drink and some curmudgeon beside me just starts yammering incessantly (and mostly incoherently) and I immediately ask for the check and go to another bar- with MG playing the role of the curmudgeon.

[Meyer]

Truth be told, I've been to a bar twice during this game and presently safe at home.

[Lake Fred]

I'm sitting in a bar minding my own business watching the game and Iceman came and sat next to me complaining about some guy named MG!

[Conway Twitty]

Already the longest 9 inn. game of the year, and Pap is just coming into the game.

[GBrettFan]

Last night's game was over an hour ago.

[GBrettFan]

Come on, Papelbon!

[GBrettFan]

Actually, I think last night's game was over an hour and a half ago - at least.

[Chuck A.]

Why on earth is my stomach in knots over a meaningless game between a 3rd place team and a last place team?

[Meyer]

I'd like to see another Ruf AB.

[GBrettFan]

Chuck - Because you've spent 4 hours watching it, maybe.

I can't believe this. It's irritating. Just get them out, Paps!

[GBrettFan]

I should have stopped watching after 7 innings.

[Chuck A.]

Sh!t it's Dobbs. Another guy I'd put on that punch list...if he's not there already.

[GBrettFan]

Really? I like Dobbs. I don't like him hitting us, but I always liked him.

[GBrettFan]

Franzke: "Where's Cliff Lee's 12 seconds between pitches when you need it?" Great line.

Finally!

.500 again.

[Bob]

4 hours. One more out- let it happen, please.

Done, and done. Not a bad job by Papelbon, closing it out after those two infield singles.

[Chuck A.]

Franzke's a master at the mike. I really think he's destined for greatness.

[Lance Phillips]

And apparently tethered to the Radio booth forever.

[GBrettFan]

22 3-ball counts.

[Lake Fred]

My revised prediction of 82 wins looks shaky right now.

[Chuck A.]

I predicted 83. That's even shakier.

[awh]

Chuck, Franzke is to Tbag what Kallas is to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehhCvk03tNI

[cut_fastball]

Chuck A. -- I predicted 78 wins (no Utley; no Howard). It took a real "run for the roses" to beat that.

[Chuck A.]

awh - whoa...that's rough. Tbag at least can complete a sentence.

[R]

Man, love reading through these cretinous threads. MG in particular, with his authoritative-sounding nonsense. Good luck guys.

And if you can't see that Brown has shown real improvement over last year, you're either not watching or looking for reasons to call him a failure.

[Bubba]

Winning ugly is still better than a long sad loss, but WTF was that game all about?

To go back to a topic discussed earlier, how can Rube let September call up bullpen pitchers go home, trade away a starter and leave the team with fewer arms available than they could have had.

Doesn't he watch the games and see how many pitchers we can go through in a game?

An AAA pitcher with 35 more innings pitched then he has ever thrown has a tired arm , and this comes as a surprise?

Charlie takes a lot of heat, and he should, but Rube is just messing up big time with some of his decisions.

[MG]

R - Just my opinion. If you think it BS, then so be it. Curious to see what you think on a couple of things including whether Halladay is healthy except for muscle issues, if the Phils should go with just internal solutions for the 7th/8th inning next year, etc?

As for Dom Brown, where has the improvement been? Numbers at Lehigh really don't show it this year. Nor do his numbers since he was called up either to the Phils either. In fact, they are pretty identical to last year.

Didn't say Brown couldn't contribute or that health-related issues really haven't held him back his year. Just hasn't shown it this year despite your claims to the contrary.

[MG]

Brown's wOBA coming into tonight was .316. Among CF OFs with at least 190 PAs, that is among the bottom quartile. He was tied with Reed Johnson and just ahead of Vic and McLouth.

Also worse than any projection had him for his year:

http://www.fangraphs.com/fanpdetails.aspx?playerid=3154&position=OF

Not expecting Brown to be a guy who hits .300 with impressive power but I was expecting modest improvement over last year especially since it has been a year since the hamate bone injury.

Phils should decided to 'sink or swim' with him next year as one of their starting corner OFs but on a team that really needs an offensive lift he simply hasn't shown it this year.

[Andy]

We were in trouble from the minute Howard broke a mirror over a black cats head underneath the ladder while spilling his salt.

On, the Ides of march which happened, for some strange reason, to be on Friday the 13th.

[Jr.]

Remember Grilli,the guy who never got a chance.
Next Grilli, Friend.Of course he did his work at AA and we know no AA player is capable of helping. Perfect example,Ruf.

[GTown_Dave]

Is It Over Yet?: Rollins (SS), Pierre (LF), Utley (2B), Ruiz (C), Brown (RF), Schierholtz (CF), Ruf (1B), Orr (3B), Hamels (P).

Brown. And Schierholtz. Then Ruf. Don't ever change, Charlie.

[clout]

MG: Those projections are a joke when it comes to young players.

Brown has improved this year in that, last season his defense was so bad you couldn't possibly start him regardless of his bat.

His defense is much improved this season, although still below average. He's been bugged by injuries, but there does come a point where you have to make a decision. Next year is his age 25 season and if he posts another low .700s OPS, I'd be tempted to move him to the Failed Prospect category.

[GTown_Dave]

Dammit. I'm agreeing w/ clout again. A sure sign of too much blood in my alcohol stream.

[bay_area_phan]

Dom Brown:

Defensively, he has improved considerably. He has gone from cartoonishly bad to merely below average. Offensively?

2011: .245/.333/.391/.725

OPS+ 98
ISO: .147
BABIP: .276
wOBA: .322
LD %: 21.3
fWAR: 0.0

2012: .238/.327/.407/.734

OPS+ 96
ISO: .169
BABIP: .265
wOBA: .317
LD %: 18.0
fWAR: -0.3

So he's hitting for ever so slightly more power; it basically comes down to 1 extra triple & 2 extra homeruns in nearly the same number of PAs. And considering that his LD% is up, and his BA down, we can probably infer that he's hitting the ball slightly better than last year but has had worse luck luck in those overall numbers. I'm willing to agree that he has shown extremely modest improvement since last year if those who are singing his praises are willing to agree that a 96 OPS+ and negative WAR is light years away from what a contending team should expect to get out of a starting corner outfielder.

[EastFallowfield]

Yo, new thread

[GTown_Dave]

Gelb: "Tyson Brummett is coming to the Phillies as an extra arm for final three games."

I can hardly begin to stifle my excitement.