Game chat: Phils need taste of Howard's former glory

We're keeping our eyes on an overtaxed bullpen and out-of-sorts clean-up hitter tonight as the Phillies' quest for the Wild Card continues in Houston.

Notes: Ryan Howard won't be 100 percent healthy this season, but the Phillies could use a few vintage efforts from their clean-up hitter down the home stretch if they are to make a serious charge. Howard, who has been back on the field for over two months and remains visably ginger on his surgically repaired Achilles, is hitting just .227/.305/.412, and in the words of someone I spoke with earlier, has stranded a small village on the bases recently. In his last 10 games, he's hitting just .158 with one extra base hit, a double. It's difficult to set realistic expectations knowing he's playing hurt, but at the same time, he's a daily fixture in the lineup and is expected to pull his weight, and right now, he's not. 

Meanwhile, the Phillies send Cole Hamels to the hill and need a nice, deep effort. The bullpen has ratcheted up a innings recently and could use a blow against the league's doormat.

All-in lineup: Rollins, Pierre, Utley, Howard, Ruiz, Brown, Mayberry, Frandsen. 

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Comments

[Willard Preacher]

Would there be apoplectic ramifications to dropping Ryan Howard in the order? Asking for a friend...

[aksmith]

Seeing the result last night, I'm wondering what has soured the Phillies on Michael Martinez. He had been hitting a little. And his fielding, while prone to gaffes, was versatile enough. What possessed Charlie to mess with success and sit his good luck charm? Did someone find and burn the negatives?

No, I want to see 100% less of MM. But it's a fair question seeing how they even played him in right field when they had other options.

[GTown_Dave]

Expecting post-surgery Ryan Howard to consistently play like Ryan Howard at his best at any point during this season was & is a fool's dream. That the Phillies suddenly very much need that version of Ryan Howard in their lineup doesn't make its not-bloody-likelihood any less true.

[aksmith]

From Last Thread - Re: Fixing Dom Brown

GTown - At this point, I'd even let Sarge take a crack at fixing him. Say what you want about his inanity in the booth, he had exactly the violent type of swing I'm talking about. Dom has no aggression in his game. Sarge was all aggression.

[The hook]

We all know Howard is prob 70/80 percent. I will take what he gives me. If he goes 1/4 with three strike outs I am good. As long As the one was a hit with runners in scoring position. That's what did us in last night. Sure Tyler gave up the bomb, but leaving all those guys on did it.

[RSB]

I am sick of Ryan Howard rolling over every ball and grounding it into the shift.

I am also sick of Chase Utley rolling over every ball into the shift.

I am, furthermore sick of Jimmy Rollins rolling over even more than I am sick of him popping up. I can forgive the pop-ups because his bat speed is going down and he has yet to make the adjustment.

All of these guys should be hitting .280, at least. Utley should be a perennial .300 hitter.

Instead they play like, well, Beerleaguers. Great for those rare at-bats when they're waffling the ball over the fence. Sort of a waste and a shame and an giant annoyance the other 25 out of 30 times up.

[MG]

Actually they need Chooch in the lineup everyday too but he is still hurting.

At least he is penciled in the No. 5 spot tonight.

[Willard Preacher]

"We all know Howard is prob 70/80 percent. I will take what he gives me. If he goes 1/4 with three strike outs I am good."

I'm good with that, too. As long as he's my #6 or #7 hitter...

[lorecore]

whats worse, thinking that Gary Matthews should be tasked with adjusting DOM's swing, or reposting it again?

[MG]

Give Howard a pass this year but he isn't hitting mistake pitches like he used to (even fastballs), has really had diminished power, and has been pitiful defensively even on playing balls/scooping balls.

Howard is going to be a station-to-station guy even next year but if the defensive and power don't improve the Phils have the worst contract in MLB.

[MR]

If Howard is 75% of himself, and the 2011 version was already 75% of his former self, then that makes him 56% of the 2006-8 Ryan Howard. Or, twice as good as Ty Wigginton.

[squads]

I was actually on here defending Howard earlier this week and since then he has gone from pretty poor to awful. Not going to make that mistake again.

Definitely agreed on Dom's tentative swing. He seems to be dragging the bat through the zone in the name of making contact and ultimately hoping he can work a walk.

I am starting to forget what good hitting looks like at this point..

[Iceman]

BAP (from the last thread): I took a post you made in May and doctored it heavily to make it appear you lavished praise on Diekman. I even said I may have slightly edited it. I in no way meant to offend you. Was hoping to lighten up a stupid subject.

[Iceman]

The lineup does need Chooch, desperately. His injury, to my limited medical knowledge, is only going to get better with rest. So playing him won't help. But he also has the whole winter to rest once this few weeks is over.

I think you need to play him as often as he says he can play. He's been effective throughout his injury. Hell, he could probably hit with one arm the way he's going this year.

[MG]

Phils are -220 favorites tonight which is makes them a HUGE FAVORITE. Biggest favorite since May.

Almost (almost tempted) take Gonzalez as the Phils almost certainly get spell bound by Gonzalez's diet of mediocre offspeed stuff for 5-6 IP but not with Hamels on the mound.

[MG]

Prediction: Big Man goes deep tonight for the first time since Aug 31

[Willard Preacher]

"Phils are -220 favorites tonight which is makes them a HUGE FAVORITE. Biggest favorite since May."

This game feels like a loss.

[DH Phils]

I think Hamels should be -220 to throw a shutout against this lineup.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: Ah. I did not go back and read it. But I do vaguely remember being duly impressed after Diekman's first game and some of his subsequent ones. Nonetheless, I've always been leery of him because he was so damn wild in the minors -- including just last season.

[GBrettFan]

Did folks see that Carpenter is planning on coming back next week? It will be interesting to see how he does, coming off surgery into a pennant race.

[Chuck A.]

Phils and Dodgers BOTH win tonight and we get that game back in the standings. Book it.

[The hook]

WP only if the hit was an extra base with runners on. That was at bottom of post. 1 for 4 with a three run bomb. I can take that.

[Willard Preacher]

Listening to the game last night, I, like most, was pretty disgusted when Cloyd gave up a bomb. For some reason, my immediate reaction was along the lines of "damn, this kid gives up a lot of HR's with men on base." I finally got around to looking it up. Obviously, SSS alert, but he's given up a HR in each of his 4 starts. The first was a 2 run blast. The next was a solo shot. It's just the last two that were both 3 run bombs. I guess I let my short term memory get the best of me.

Though, a HR a game is pretty abyssal, to say the least, it feels like they're coming when it's a higher leverage situation. I'm sure it's natural for a kid to want to throw strikes when men get on base in a close game, but grooving one is a problem he'll have to fix.

[Cyclic]

Does yesterday's loss now mean we have to sweep either the Mets, Braves, or Nationals now?

Or did we always have to do that anyway?

[Iceman]

Cyclic- I forget what I calculated, but after the Rockies series I think I figured out they needed to sweep two of the remaining series and win the rest. They swept the Miami series, so that's one. They now can't sweep Houston. So that means they have to do it to one of those three.

Again, very possible. But it's also very possible they lose a series, rendering a sweep completely moot.

[GBrettFan]

Cyclic - From Todd Zolecki a few days ago - before the Marlins series, sounds like:

The Phillies play their next eight games against the Marlins, Astros and Mets. You have to think they need to go at least 6-2 to have a shot going into the final 12 games of the season because the Phillies play nine of their final 12 against the Braves (three at home) and Nationals (three at home, three on the road). If the Phillies go 6-2 over this upcoming stretch they would need to finish 8-4 to finish with 85 wins. And that means they could not lose a series the rest of the way, unless they work in another sweep somewhere.

[GBrettFan]

The above was from 9/12, so before the last Marlins game was played.

[aksmith]

lorecore - Isn't it funny that we think we know more about hitting than a guy who actually did it for decades at a very high level, then was the hitting coach for a major league team? Well, I mean, isn't it funny that you do?

Sarge is a terrible broadcaster. But I'd bet he has forgotten more about hitting than you know about almost anything.

[Cyclic]

Thanks, guys. Keep the Phaith.

[GTown_Dave]

Sarge may not be the best broadcaster -- although he amuses more than annoys me -- but the man could definitely hit. It's not like anyone suggested seeing if Gnome could iron out Brown's swing.

[Cyclic]

Pittsburgh's freefall continues.

[Not Cliff Lee]

Speaking of games 'feeling like a loss', pray for me. Dice K is pitching for the Sox. The stiff who went 1-1/3 innings last time :(

[bay_area_phan]

This feels like a loss.

(It doesn't really, but now that I know how much that slogan bugs people, I'll be damned if I'm ever gonna quit saying it. Plus, I need to say it to trigger the reverse Beerleaguer jinx -- although I probably just untriggered it by admitting I was being insincere when I said this feels like a loss. But whatever.)

[Dragon]

Might be time to give Howard a blow and give "Babe" Ruf a start. Howard is struggling a bit and if the kid sits long enough, he's bound to lose some timing. Put him in for one game.

[Iceman]

Oh boy. aksmith appealing to authority with hitting. That's hilarious. This is a guy that thinks he knows more than everyone in the Phils front office and coaching staff about everything related to baseball, though many of them played extensively. Yet that buffoon Sarge would be a great hitting coach because he was a good hitter and can talk into a microphone without trying to eat it.

Knowing how to do something and teaching someone how to do it are two completely, totally different things. Ask Michael Jordan. Ask Isaiah Thomas. I would think that is fairly obvious. From a few years of listening to him babble in the broadcast booth, Sarge doesn't strike me as the teaching type. He wouldn't exactly be my first choice (but then again, neither would Greg Gross).

[Iceman]

Yeah, we've already seen what Tyler 'The Savior' Cloyd can do at the MLB level. Might as well burst the Ruf bubble, also.

(Seriously though, he can't be worse than any other of the RH options)

[GBrettFan]

Let's do this, Phillies.

[bay_area_phan]

I know nothing about Sarge's hitting expertise, let alone his teaching skills. But I'd make him hitting coach in a heartbeat, if only to get him out of the broadcast booth. While I'm at it, I'd make T-mac 3rd base coach.

[R.Billingsly]

Good start.

[GBrettFan]

Yes, Jimmy!!!!!

[Cyclic]

J ROLL!!!

20!!!!!!!!!!!

[Replacement Level Poster]

Jimmy up for this, now who else is gonna come along?

[gobaystars!]

Big Game James!

[bullit]

ageless james !!!

[bay_area_phan]

Nice start!

[Willard Preacher]

Iceman, with Ruiz and Frandsen starting, as far as I'm concerned Ruf IS the RH option tonight.

No disrespect to Wiggy, who will undoubtedly get the call well before Babe Ruf (Kratz too).

[GTown_Dave]

I'm truly impressed by that AB. J-Roll took his time, felt out the pitcher, & made him pay. Very nice.

[GBrettFan]

Oh, my, BAP. I'm not sure T-Mac could hack it as a 3B coach. Although he might spur the runners to move quicky, the faster to get away from his talking.

[NEPP]

Big Game James!

[Willard Preacher]

"I'm truly impressed by that AB. J-Roll took his time, felt out the pitcher, & made him pay. Very nice."

GTown, I'm expecting you'll use BL Bankruptcy in the near future, or risk losing your reputation...

[bay_area_phan]

"Oh, my, BAP. I'm not sure T-Mac could hack it as a 3B coach."

It is not like the incumbent has set an insurmountable standard of excellence. I think T-Mac could do it.

[GBrettFan]

Was he really safe??

[GTown_Dave]

Preacher: Jimmy only annoys me when he fails to play w/ the intelligence & intensity of which we know he's capable. I'm guessing this will happen by the 3rd inning or so.

[gobaystars!]

Getting after it early. I like this.

[bay_area_phan]

Erik Kratz would have thrown him out. Actually, I think this guy threw him out.

[NEPP]

Terrible call...but it went our way.

[NEPP]

Couldnt do that last night with RISP, Chase?

[GBrettFan]

So far, so good.

Re: 3B coaching - I know Samuel is no great shakes, but I was hoping to improve upon it, as long as I'm imagining a new 3B coach. I have to admit that I have a funny mental image now of TMac talking incessantly to whomever is within earshot while manning 3B.

[Criff Ree]

The umpires have money on the Phils tonight.

[GTown_Dave]

I'm now beset by the incredibly disturbing mental image of T-Mac's man boobs bouncing wildly as the man himself manically waves yet another runner to certain doom at home plate.

[NEPP]

Utley was flexing his knees after that slide...oddly I might add.

[gobaystars!]

Everybody hits! Woohooo!

[Sophist]

Yeah, our lefties better crush this guy.

[GTown_Dave]

So ... one more run & the offense shuts it down for the evening?

[NEPP]

EVERYONE HITS!!!

[bay_area_phan]

Utley watched the ball bounce over the fence and then proceeded to sprint home like Pete Rose running to 1st on a walk.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

Always fun to double someone's ERA in 0/3 of an inning.

[gobaystars!]

We're getting the hard ones and the soft ones tonight.

[Cyclic]

Sleepy time!

[bullit]

mabes !!

[Sophist]

I'd be so much more excited about this if last night had never happened.

[Cyclic]

Mets have also jumped out 2-0 on the Brewers.

[MG]

Can't ask for a better start.

[Iceman]

If Hamels blows this lead, against this lineup, it might take me until opening day next year to forgive him.

[bay_area_phan]

"Mets have also jumped out 2-0 on the Brewers."

Rooting for the Mets makes me feel dirty.

[NEPP]

RFD!

[LOLMETS]

Seeing the Brewers play LOLMETS this weekend makes me sad

[NEPP]

Phillies SS All-Time fWAR:

Jimmy Rollins: 47.9
Larry Bowa: 22.3
Granny Hamner: 22.0
Mickey Doolan: 20.6

At this rate, he should end up with his own bronze statue outside the park as he's heads and shoulders above every other team SS in the past 130 years.

[gobaystars!]

Settle down, Cole.

[NEPP]

Damnit Cole...I wanted a Perfect Game.

[LOLMETS]

This weekend is going to be like a damn root canal...never easy in Houston

[GTown_Dave]

This is going well. I feel very confident.

[Sophist]

Hamels throws to 2B about as well as Howard does.

[gobaystars!]

I don't understand what happened there. Poor footwork by a gimpy Howard. Tough error to pin on Rollins.

[gobaystars!]

Ok time to get that one back.

[bay_area_phan]

gobay: Watch the replay. Howard had no chance at that.

[Sophist]

Utley and Rollins should both get statues.

[GBrettFan]

I'm not happy that the Astros got away with a run.

[wes covington's ghost]

WTF was that? Astros preparing for AL with 4+ hour games.

[NEPP]

Are you fvcking kidding me?

[GBrettFan]

Yeah, I know LA thought Howard could have had that ball with more movement, but whether that's true or not, it looked like an error to me. Throw was to Howard's right.

[bullit]

jimmy threw it more than a howard from the base.

[LOLMETS]

Sophist,

Add Cole to that statue list

[NEPP]

***Utley and Rollins should both get statues. ***

Fortunately, it appears Howard already is one so they wont have to put up the cash for 3.

[gobaystars!]

I'll have to watch it again.

[gobaystars!]

Quick someone make a pop-up joke so we'll all know who the worst poster here is.

[NEPP]

We scored 4 in the 1st...I predict we'll still have just 4 runs in the 9th.

[Albert Ross]

Just curious as to whether anyone has noticed at BLer tonight that I'm a freakin' RBI machine?

[GBrettFan]

Me, too, NEPP.

[Sophist]

Houston in September. Get this series over with.