Game chat: Phillies teetering on brink of elimination

Baseball's longest streak of consecutive playoff appearances, dating from 2007, could end tonight with a loss in Miami or Cardinals victory in St. Louis. Left-handers Cliff Lee (3.18, 6-8) and Mark Buehrle (13-13, 3.84) toe the slab beginning tonight at 7:10. The Phils field a line-up of elimination All-Stars, with Michael Martinez getting the start in center field and Ty Wigginton starting over Ryan Howard at first. John Mayberry Jr. slides over to right field. The Phils are hanging by a thread after losing two-of-three to both the Braves and Nationals. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Hugh Mulcahy]

BLECH

[Jr.]

Yea Wiggy and Mini,really need to see what they can do. Ruf gets the shaft again.Hope they lose.

[GBrettFan]

Ruf is still in LF, Jr.

[MG]

I wonder if the actual attendance (fans through the gates) is at these 3 games.

Averaged around 23k for the Braves but I bet the actual attendance was half that. Imagine they are going to play in front of a ton of empty blue seats.

Miami is only 18th this year in MLB attendance despite their new stadium opening. TB is 30th. Florida is just a horrible baseball market.

[Conway Twitty]

Can't have a new thread w/o a repost.

Dodgers based the PTBNL on Vic's "performance".

[Jr.]

GBrettFan Thanks,makes sense,if he's ever going to play it will have to be LF.

[lorecore]

"Baseball's longest streak of consecutive playoff appearances, dating from 2007, could end tonight"

Pretty good way to put it. As much of a disappointment this year has been, you need to realize that winning every year is just a very hard thing to do.

[Unikruk]

"Florida is just a horrible baseball market."

Florida is horrible for sports in general, with notable exceptions for football, which sells everywhere, and watching cars drive around and around for hours.

[lorecore]

unikruk: Jacksonville Tampa and Miami have some of poorest franchise values in the NFL.

[GBrettFan]

I just learned that the Iranian news published a story from the Onion not only as fact, but as if it were their own. Yes, they plagiarized The Onion.

Which made me go to The Onion online, where I found this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dc-residents-can-remember-exactly-who-they-were-mu,29721/

[GBrettFan]

(That link, forgot to say, is to a "story" about how D.C. residents can remember who they were murdering when the Nationals clinched a playoff berth.)

[MG]

Been to NASCAR once and there is a big reason why people love to drink & tailgate - the eventual event is horribly dull & boring in person. One of the worst sporting events I have ever been to.

Even the funny car races at Maple Grove Raceway in PA are much more exciting to watch.

Kicker is that you are paying at $60 bucks/ticket to go to a Nascar event too.

[GBrettFan]

Chris Branch ‏@ChrisBranchTNJ
So much for that. MT @ryanlawrence21 RAJ: "After further review, it makes most sense to keep Chase at 2B." Says experiment likely over.

[Sil Campusano]

That would qualify as a "duh."

[Iceman]

Thank god they are keeping him and 2nd. This falls under 'it never hurts to consider all options.'

Now they'll just teach Galvis third and be done with it.

[GBrettFan]

Off-topic, but this Onion piece about the NFL ending the referee lockout is hilarious! I just read a SI piece a few weeks ago about former players suffering early-onset Alzheimers from concussions. Very sad.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-we-want-to-protect-the-integrity-of-our-brutal,29710/

[Bonehead]

Stefan Jarrin looks like a nice young man.

[mikethemacguy]

Anybody like me live down in S.Fla going to any of the games this weekend? Haven't been to the new stadium yet. I'll probably be the only one there...I'll wave.

[aksmith]

Sefan Jarrin as described by his neighbors in a couple of years: "He was a quiet young man, mostly kept to himself. What happened was a shock to everyone. But we should have known something wasn't right when neighborhood pets starting disappearing."

[aksmith]

Babe Ruf hitting AFTER Wigginton? Must have missed the tweet where Ruf pissed in Charlie's corn flakes.

[GBrettFan]

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Formulating a winter strategy based upon six Utley games at third is risky. That's how Phillies saw it. Little to do with ability.

Does this mean they WILL look for a third baseman? I just read a story today about Utley wherein Amaro said he'd target offense via the OF:

"Ultimately, the chances of adding offense to this club is probably through the outfield," Amaro said. "I don't know if that's center field, left or right, but there are a little bit better options at those positions than there are in the infield."

& this about Utley at 3B:

"What it does is fortify us defensively," Amaro said. "No disrespect to Chase, but I think the knee injuries have affected his range, not too much, but some, and when you're talking about Freddy [Galvis] at second base, that's a Gold Glove-level guy. With him and Jimmy [Rollins] in the middle, it's an extraordinary combination."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20120928_Phillies__Chase_Utley__An_aging_star_in_transition.html#ixzz27o9ez4ul
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20120928_Phillies__Chase_Utley__An_aging_star_in_transition.html#ixzz27o9X1QqO

[GTown_Dave]

OT: I'm going to miss the scab refs. The last 4 weeks were the most fun I've had watching professional football since Buddy Ryan was head coach of the Eagles.

[Jerry Sandusky]

Bonehead, I thin he's a nice looking youn man too.

[bullit]

thanks GBF. that onion piece was some devastating satire. it brings to mind the increasing frequency of homeplate collisions. they seem gratuitious in almost all circumstamces.

[GBrettFan]

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
FWIW: Two smart baseball men, Sam Perlozzo and Ryne Sandberg, thought Utley could do it.

I have to say that I was curious to see what would happen. And that I'm a little surprised at the sudden turnaround. It's not as though the market for 3rd baseman suddenly improved, or that they didn't already know there would only be a few games in which to try Utley out at 3B this season.

[Bonehead]

My God. Sept 28 and still wit' the MiniMart. My God.

[Jerry]

'think he'a a nice looking young man..."

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: So if r00b sees Rollins & Galvis as a Gold Glove middle infield, what does he intend to do w/ Utley?

I think some of the local writers are misinterpreting the GM's comments. Just because he's not going to name Chase the new 3B now is not an indication that he won't sometime between now & Opening Day '13.

[GBrettFan]

GTown, you'll enjoy the caption with this picture: http://www.theonion.com/articles/back-judge-from-packers-seahawks-game-returns-to-j,29725/

I always forget how much The Onion makes me laugh.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: Ha! I need to return to The Onion more freq. myself. There are almost always one or two bits that leave me rolling.

[GBrettFan]

I have no idea what Amaro is thinking at this point, GTown. I really don't see how his comments in today's Bob Brookover piece about Galvis & Rollins mesh with his comments tonight: "After further review, it makes most sense to keep Chase at 2B."

I guess he changed his mind? But then, what DOES he plan to do at 3B? He has his work cut out for him this winter. Some challenges to face. He has to guess at what we'll get from Doc & Worley next year, assume Utley & Howard will be healthy-ish, try to gauge the state of the bullpen for 2013 (including Herndon & Stutes), and secure some offense for this team, plus 3rd base, all within a budget.

[Mick O]

It's been a disappointing season, so it's back to basics of enjoying baseball for what it is without imagined sophistication and the indulgence of a pseudocritical eye. Nine guys trying to throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball.

I don't have it in me to criticize anything else this season. There are only six games of baseball left... six! I don't care what the lineups are, how bad the team is, what Dr. Doolittle experiments Charlie has running through his goofy head....

.500 baseball is better than zero baseball.

I'm going to savor every last moment of these last six, cos those moments will have to tide me over a long winter. When my west coast four P.M. rolls around, and I can't fire up Scott & Larry... Aughh!

That first week going without is just brutal.

[GBrettFan]

Ah, some light is shed by Jim Salisbury:

Amaro added that having the option of playing Utley at third base next season “was helpful, but I don’t know if it’s an option that makes us better.”

Amaro went on to say to the team could look at Freddy Galvis and Kevin Frandsen at third in spring training. He added that it was also possible that the Phillies could look outside the organization for a third baseman this winter.

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-talk/Utley-third-base-experiment-is-put-to-re?blockID=780855&feedID=693

[bay_area_phan]

Could someone just sort of nudge me when Darrin Ruf comes up? That way I don't have to watch the rest of this game.

[bullit]

ditto Mick O.

[GBrettFan]

GTown is right that the door is not closed on Utley at 3B.

"Amaro said that Utley and the team could re-visit the third base experiment down the road, but nothing is definitive." (Salisbury)

I know what you mean, Mick O. I can't believe baseball is almost over. Except for the good teams, that is, who go to the playoffs.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: What I get from that is "all options are on the table", & if so I'd say it's not a bad thing.

[EastFallowfield]

Phils had also increased their win total for six straight seasons until this year, that's pretty hard to do, especially when the first year in that streak was an 85 win season.

[GTown_Dave]

b_a_p: Nudge.

[Cyclic]

Keep it up, Ruf.

[bay_area_phan]

GTown: Thanks. See you in 3 innings.

[Cyclic]

Pigginton is an idiot.

[GBrettFan]

Is Wigginton on just a 1-yr contract, or is he ours next year, too?

[GTown_Dave]

If Wigginton is still in the Majors next season I will question everything I believe in. What a jackass.

[MG]

Only player I am semi-interested to watch on the Fish is Stanton. Maybe rooting against Reyes or hoping that Guillen goes nuts.

Seems like he has been below the radar this year since the Fish have been non-contender but he's had a very solid year. Thought he was 25/26 and not just 22 (23 in Nov).

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: $4 million option, $500K buyout.

[wes covington's ghost]

Baseball players on average lose 7-10 lbs. during a season. Wiggington appears to have put on 10-15. One positive with the early end to the season will be not having to see that bloated POS trying to play baseball.

[GBrettFan]

I was looking for Wiggy's conract status on rotoworld.com and was reminded of this (Now don't bang your heads into the wall, BL'ers):

The Yankees could use Wigginton at third base while Alex Rodriguez is on the shelf, but evidently Philly wants to hang on to him with Placido Polanco also out of action. While the Phillies have played much better ball of late, they can't realistically consider themselves playoff contenders. So if the Yanks are persistent in their pursuit of Wigginton, they could probably make something happen. Jul 25 - 7:10 PM

[bay_area_phan]

GBrett: He has a $4M team option with a $500K buyout. But even if he had a $50,000 team option and a $25M buyout, I would still be in favor of exercising the buyout.

[MG]

Phils have a $500k buyout option which I expect the Phils to exercise as soon as the season ends.

He'll either play AAA or retire. My bet is he simply retires. $23M+ in career earnings for a very mediocre player. Nice if you can get it.

[Unikruk]

I really don't like anything about Wiggy's game. At all.

[GBrettFan]

Thanks, GTown. No way should we pay Wigginton more in 2013 than we did this year. Even the $500,000 buyout seems generous.

[bay_area_phan]

GBrett: I believe the offer that the Yankees made was Robinson Cano for Ty Wigginton. RAJ turned it down.

[MG]

Wigginton stinks and if WAR is one of your 'end all/be all' stats Wigginton has had one of the worst seasons by a position player in the last 25-30 years given how much PT he has gotten.

[GBrettFan]

If one doesn't consider salary (which I realize must be done), it seems ludicrous to refuse to deal Wigginton while dealing Pence & Vic. As if he's more valuable than they.

[GBrettFan]

BAP: Could you imagine? "No, thanks, we don't need Cano. We have Utley and Galvis. We'd rather keep Wigginton." If it were true, I'm certain RAJ would still be in the stocks or pillory having rotten tomatoes thrown in his face.

[MG]

Last pile on:

Not sure if the Phils make the playoffs if they had signed Betemit or one of the S. Hairston/J. Hairston, they would have been better off instead of Wigginton getting as much PT he did.

Between Wigginton and Qualls, those secondary moves that really get harped over a lot here arguably did make the difference between the Phils make the playoff this year & being home instead for the first time in October since 2006.

Only good thing about missing the playoffs is you don't have to hear TMac use 'Red October' at least several times every night just in case you missed it.

[GTown_Dave]

An inspiring offensive output thus far.

[MG]

Surprised they kept Wigginton simply because the moves the Phils made first and foremost were to dump salary. Thought for certain the Phils would have been overjoyed at the prospect at dumping Wigginton and saving nearly at least $700 or $800k.

[EastFallowfield]

The good teams will make the playoffs, as well as some almost good teams, and who knows, maybe one of those nearly good teams will win it all again.

[MG]

First team to score wins?

[GTown_Dave]

Nice. Wigginton throw his helmet in disgust. It's not the umpires' fault you suck, guy.

[GBrettFan]

I hope Cliff Lee gets better run support next year.

I hope the Phillies finish the season at or above .500. I wouldn't be surprised if we do finish below .500, however. But a .500 finish is my goal for the team. Quite a change from the goal at this time last year.

[GTown_Dave]

Lee has now surrendered 71 ER in 202 IP this season. The Phillies have scored 73 R in those 202 Innings.

[Muuurgh]

Oof! That was killed.

Ruf to hit a bomb coming up to tie the game. Book it.

[Conway Twitty]

I'm like bap, waiting for Ruf's AB's. Commercials run over, and all I see is Ruf walking back to the dugout.

[NEPP]

Its really tough to watching meaningless games like this knowing the season was a waste.

[MG]

Hard to tell if the pitchers are really pitching this well or that both of these lineups are just filled with underwhelming/mediocre hitters. Leaning towards the later.

[Cyclic]

Not for nothing, but why doesn't Frandsen get his foot taken care of?

Does he think he can earn a spot next year with his play in the last 6 games?

[Lance Phillips]

Yes there are many meaningful,necessary upgrades the Phillies need to address in the off season . In all honesty I don't think ANYTHING would give me more pleasure than reading the Phillies have terminated the contracts of Tom McCarthy,Gary Matthews and Chris Wheeler. I would literally let out a whoop of joy!

[PhxPhilly]

I know Wigginton and Qualls had poor seasons but both were good early on when they were most needed.

Howard was supposed to come back sooner, and the young relievers (DeFratus, Schwimmer, Aumount) needed some time to get called up.

Wigginton proved to be old and was useless at 3B (where Phillies had to know Polanco was going to miss time). Young relievers all came up and stunk at times, especially whoever pitched the 8th or extra innings.

For me, Mayberry was the key to the offense early on. He needed to help carry the offense with Pence and Victorino while Howard and Utley were out. I really hoped Thome would play 1B twice a week and hit about as well/poor as Howard. Utley is irreplaceable.

[Cyclic]

Also, I don't mind that Ruf is playing LF instead of 1B tonight.

Shows that they are really looking seriously at him as an option for next year.

[MG]

Wouldn't find fault if Cholly nods off tonight. These two teams are just flat as can be tonight and there is no energy at all in this ball park.

[MG]

If I needed to show what happened to teams due to the stimulant ban, I would show this game.

[Cyclic]

Nice running catch by Ruf.

So far so good.

[Cool to get some runs for an ace pitcher ...]

Has the offense broken out in support of Lee tonight?

[Cyclic]

Now Ruf will give us the lead.....

[PhxPhilly]

I was willing to give Phillies management benefit of the doubt (I am an apologist at heart) on Martinez that he could be taught to use his speed and that he'd be a quality defensive player... but it is quite obvious to EVERYONE that he is terrible.
I know that nearly all of Beerleaguer realized this a year ago but how is he even on the roster?

Put Nix or Shierholtz out there so they can decide who to keep for next year.

[bullit]

without greenies, the season is simply too long. 150 games is a goal the PA should work towards.

[GTown_Dave]

bullit: I think the regular season ought to have been shortened as the Postseason was lengthened. MLB cannot continue to add games w/out negatively affecting the quality of play, esp. once the World Series finally rolls around. Of course this theory is in direct conflict w/ the money grab mentality of those in charge, so I doubt we'll see any such thing.

[GTown_Dave]

I'll never understand asking Martinez to bunt. As w/ every other aspect of his "game", he's terrible at it. And what in the living f*ck was he swinging at the 3rd pitch for? Head high & about 1.5' outside. This guy is the worst practical joke ever.

[GTown_Dave]

Should've let Lee bat. And no, I'm not kidding.

[Mini Mart]

One more at bat - I know I can break this puppy wide open!

[Cyclic]

Red Light Rollins

[GTown_Dave]

Thank you, Rollins! At least Lee won't be hung out to dry yet again.

[Unikruk]

Lee's gotta be pissed. Sure would be nice to have him riding this hot streak into the playoffs.

[MG]

Phils score! Phils score! They are going to start needing to hand out expressos to players in the dugout if this game goes extra innings.

[MG]

Mini-Mart - A little man with a big man's swing. Not one thing he does well off the bench including baserunning, bunting, or as a late-innings defensive replacement.

One of the few players who makes Desi Relaford look good by comparison.

[bullit]

desi arnez could play better.

[bay_area_phan]

Scott Cousins: Bay Area high school star turned Bay Area villain.

[MG]

bullit - Yeah he could. If he hadn't had that injury in spring training, I am sure he would have been on this roster all year & been horrible again.

Amaro has to be a better job of constructing a bench this offseason. He did somewhat last year but Wigginton has been a bust, Schneider had no tread left on the tires even last year, and Mini Mart was horrid. Something Amaro has done a very underwhelming job since he became the GM here.

[GTown_Dave]

If this game goes extras MLB should pay me for my time.

Also,Desi Relaford is one of my 2-3 least favorite Phillies ever, so it's probably not a shock that I'm so averse to Martinez.

[Mini Mart]

"Mini-Mart - A little man with a big man's schwing"

FIXT!

[Mick O]

The radio guys were talking about Adam Greenberg, who signed a 1-game contract with the Marlins -- his story is that he was beaned in his first major league at bat 4 years ago, never really recovered and never played again.

What is slightly less known is that if Greenberg does get an AB in his game, that means the 1955 Phillies' own Fred Van Dusen will once again be the ONLY player to be HBP in his only major league at-bat.

[MG]

Dave - I do remember a game at the Vet (maybe '98) late in the summer where Relaford struck out with a runner on 3rd.

Somebody yelled really loudly something along the lines of 'Trying making contact and not swing for the fences you f@cking clown' which actually did get him to take a look up in the crowd.

Wasn't that hard in those days though in Aug/Sept to yell loudly enough to be heard at the Vet. Especially if the Phils were losing badly or playing a bad opponent.

[Corn]

Michael Martinez put on some weight!

[GBrettFan]

Howard not only made the 2nd out, but he messed up Chooch's great SB. And hurt the MIA catcher.

[bay_area_phan]

Come on, Cholly. How can you do this?

[GBrettFan]

I remember seeing Ryan Howard on David Letterman once. Dave asked him how he saw the ball & hit, and Howard joked that he closed his eyes and swung.

I've thought about that comment from time to time and wondered whether he wasn't joking.

[GBrettFan]

Wasted opportunity. I bet we lose.