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« Phillies ready to audition their diamond in the Ruf | Main | Second-half MVPs? Kendrick right at the top »

Monday, September 10, 2012

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Hoping we continue to get good Kendrick. It is no coincidence this surge getting (almost) back into the wild card chase has piggy backed off of outstanding starting pitching.

Charlie has managed the bullpen alot better recently and we are now seeing his biggest strength as a manager- getting this group to play for him.

JW, you're nuts. That billy goat can ONLY play the hot corner. Mini Mart, on the other hand is VERSATILE!!!!

Harsh, JW, very harsh.

But funny, and that's what really counts.

KK is due for a stinker, kicking off the discussion about his relative role in the 2013 rotation. You can almost set your watch to it.

Couple that with the Philly area blogs/media and their recent re-opening of the "outside playoff chances" discussion and this game feels like a loss.

Oh, and Mini Mart, too.

Warning: completely off-the-wall idea.

I saw on the last thread that Baltimore was interested in Juan Pierre. I'm just curious, if, hypothetically, we traded Pierre for Wilson Betemit, with the condition that the players be again traded for one another at the end of the regular season. If both teams were to make the post-season, would Pierre be eligible to play for the Phillies, and Betemit for the Orioles? Could give both teams fill-ins while the starters (Markakis and Frandsen) get healthy, without disrupting the post-season roster plans. Is there any precedent for such a scenario?

krukker, that is mental.

"Is there any precedent for such a scenario?"

You mean aside from the precedent set that shows the commissioner as an insufferable, anti-fun, "rain on everyone's parade" do8chebag?

None that I can think of...

Domonic Brown scribblings:

1. He has been below replacement level for his entire MLB career and significantly so.

2. The only clearly identifiable skill he has shown thus far is plate discipline but it is not translating into OBP.

3. There seems to be some confusion over his age. He turned 25 one week ago.

4. His defense seems better of late. He appears more comfortable in the field.

5. Opinion: he is the latest in a long line of AAAA players. I hope I am wrong.

krukker, are you seriously on something?

This is a useful reference to the schedules of the other teams in the hunt for WC #2 as we roll a snowball through hell, trying to be the team that makes it.

http://zozone.mlblogs.com/2012/09/10/keeping-things-interesting/

I'm curious about the actual rules because I am very well aware that it has exactly zero chance of being discussed, let alone actually happening. It's just a rules question.

Mandy Housenick ‏@inthephilshouse
Cloyd said he has never started on short rest before and didn't know that was the plan until he was taken out after 4 IP Sunday.


So there's the plan.

if the O's got Pierre- he wouldn't be eligible for Post Season- or since he's replacing an injured player, would he?

Pierre definitely would not be eligible for the Orioles post-season roster. That wasn't my question though.

So I guess I will go there, re: the White Elephant in the Room.. a previously middling prospect admits he feels he needs a great year to stay in pro ball. He explodes and hits more homers in one year than his other years combined... Listen, I love the story and hope he has a long, great career with the Phillies... But desperate people do desperate things. Hate to go there, but what else are you left with? See Cabrera, Melky as the most recent example. Could he be clean? Sure and I certainly hope so.

I think the rule is that a player has to be on the roster of their new team by the end of the day on August 31st. I don't think it matters that he's "replacing" an injured player because how would MLB determine if the acquired player actually replaces the injured player in every instance that he's in a game.

The ONLY way this would make sense is 1) if the Phillies determine that they are truly out of it (not yet). 2) if Baltimore figures that getting Pierre for about 20 games is worth it in order to secure that WC spot.

Cloyd started with short rest on Sunday?

If so, that would explain Cloyd's less than stellar performance... nice of the Phils to communicate

Could he be clean? Sure and I certainly hope so. Posted by: pblunts | Monday, September 10, 2012 at 06:11 PM

---------
hope so too..

it was only a matter of time til that was brought up- geesh!

we have nothing!!?? better micro mart??

buy sell: No... Cloyd will be starting on short rest on Thursday. He started on normal rest on Sunday.

Personally, having Pierre on this team for the next 22 games and mentoring young players is more valuable than what they would get in any trade. And, in the slight chance that they make the playoffs, then you have a valuable weapon off the bench.

"I'm implying/bring to light the stupidity of BAP's viewpoint that +25yr olds who mash in the minors need to be given shots in the bigs, but when a 22yr old mashes in the minors and then struggles in the majors his first 400 PA, he's no longer worth playing."

I'm a little confused at the logic. Actually, make that a lot confused. On the one hand, we've got a 25-year old who was good (not great) in the minors, but has now been given 400+ major league PAs and has stunk it up something fierce in literally every phase of the game. On the other hand, we have a 26-year old who has never gotten even a single major league AB, but who just posted one of the best minor league seasons in history. And I'm supposed to be more excited about the former prospect than the latter one, all because, 3 years ago, when they were 22 and 23, Dom was the more accomplished prospect? You've taken a truism -- age is very important when it comes to prospects -- and allowed it to overcome all shred of common sense. Then, for good measure, you personally attack anyone who dares think that perhaps the conventional scouting wisdom about older prospects is a bit stupid.

Why isn't Ruf starting for Howard vs the lefty tonight?

"Why isn't Ruf starting for Howard vs the lefty tonight?"

LeBlanc is tougher on righties than lefties. Like WAY tougher. He has almost LOOGY-esque splits, even though he's right-handed.

So, rather than asking why Ruf isn't starting for Howard (seriously?), you should be asking: why are Wigginton and Mini-Mart in the lineup instead of Orr & Nix/Schierholtz/Pierre?

It's clear bay_area_phan believes 400 PAs in the majors is all you need to decide whether a player has a future in this league.

And he also believes excitement is warranted for a 26 year old in AA.

And that's okay. In baseball, we're entitled to our own opinions.

And to clarify one point from my 6:20 post . . . given the alternatives, and the fact that the playoffs are still a real longshot, I am all in favor of continuing to run Dom out there. But he has 408 PAs in the books now and has been given three separate chances to earn his way into a starting job. All three times, he has failed to impress. He may well be good some day but a team which has playoff aspirations in 2013 is not going to be in position to sit around and wait for it after 3 failed attempts. So he'd better start impressing between now & the end of the season, or he will have pretty much run himself out of chances in Philadelphia.

KAS: Wrong. Read my 6:31 post. It's not that I think 400 PAs tells us he'll never be any good. It's that, if the Phillies have playoff aspirations in 2013, they cannot afford to take a premium offensive position & turn it into a grand experiment to see if Dom's next 400 PAs can be better than his first 400. How difficult is that concept?

How many career MLB pa does Brown have at 25? 2011 washis age 23 season; 2012 his age 24. Check B-R. That's how they keep track of these things. He's been 25 for one week.

What I assume BAP means is that, had Ruf accumulated 408 Major League plate appearances between the ages of 22 and 24, he'd certainly have produced an OPS+ number superior to Brown's -- indeed, very much superior, I assume, as Brown's OPS+ of 86 is dismal enough to warrant his permanent banishment from the majors, so as to spare BAP the sight of Brown's 409th career MLB plate appearance.

Klaus: Yeah, that's clearly what I mean. Sheesh.

KAS - No it isn't but Brown's numbers since the start of 2011 (including minor league numbers at AA/AAA) are very mediocre:

657 ABs (192) with a slash line of .262/.346/.391 (.737 OPS) with 14 HRs and 19 SB/11 CS. Only has 3 triples. HR every 47 ABs which for a corner OF stinks too.

Yeah Brown had the hamate bone injury last year which likely sapped his power last year but what about the continued lack of power this year too? Has it had lingering effects this year too (haven't heard one way or the other)?

Still is a below average/poor defensive OF and for a guy who has good speed he is a poor baserunner.

Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt last year and even this year. If Brown wants to stick at the MLB level as an everyday player, he has to hit and hit with power because he is never going to be an asset off the bench because of his baserunning and defensive limitations.

Brown has been snakebit by injuries/developmental issues too. That's the one reason why I can see Amaro still having trouble on evaluating Brown fully.

Brown had the hamate bone injury last year in spring training and has missed time this year due to a few injury issues including a balky left knee which has plagued him the past few months.

Everyone knows that Darrin Ruf just needs a chance to play and he'll be league MVP within 2 years.

I don't know what Charlie is thinking.

Considering all the grief I'm taking just for saying that it wouldn't be any great loss if Dom never has 409th PA for the Phillies, I can only imagine the grief I'm gonna take if Dom actually does something good tonight.

I'd be more than happy to find out.

Why dont we let Ruf try and get his feet wet, with maybe a pinch hit appearance tonight?

Rather then Ruf starting and going 0-4 and people labeling him a bust?

BAP: You've finally outed yourself with this latest bit of heresy. You're nothing more than a troll. You are probably sitting there in your Mets pajamas....in Flushing. Shameful.

donc: Giants pajamas. But don't tell anyone.

BAP: How big is the difference between Double A pitching and MLB pitching?

a. No difference at all.

b. Tiny difference.

c. Significant difference.

Based on your posts I'm guessing you'd choose "b", but I thought I'd ask.

BAP: You get into your PJs at 4 pm? I KNEW I should have been an attorney...

Average Corner OF power (this season):

LF/RF: HR every ~28 HRs which is going to translate into 20 HRs for a corner OF position given 580-600 ABs

LF/RF SLG: .435 right now and where Brown falls a bit short. He did have a .432 SLG pct at Lehigh this year but has hit for almost no power since was called up (.339 SLG). Even last year, he SLG just .391.

If a starting corner OF has less than a .400 SLG pct, he better a high average/OBP guy with speed guy & solid defense. That isn't Brown's game though.

BAP: Your Delta Tau Chi name is Flushing_Fan.

Cy Kendrick - his last game against Cincy was good and the Phils were hosed by the ump on that trap in CF. Just imagine if the Phils fall one game short of the playoffs....

Blah, blah, blah... Everyone on BL thinks everyone in Reading and Allentown is the savior.

Blah, blah, blah... The only opinion that I have is that everyone is stupid.

Ooooo, look I know how to change my screen name! Lotta 12-year-olds on here. Have the guts to use your regular handle azzhole.

Well, Mini-Mart does have .012 points of BA over Kendrick.

Mayberry should rake this guy.

Still plenty of good seats available at the Bank. I guess the greater Philadelphia area casual fan didn't get the notice that we're back to thinking we have a shot at the playoffs again?

clout: The difference is huge. Now here's my question for you and lorecore: what kind of numbers would a 26-year old have to post at AA before you'd agree that the numbers bode well for his major league prospects? What if he hit 60 homers and had a 1.4 OPS?

Oh, nevermind. I give up with Mayberry.

@Willard...Im sure it will be a 40000 crowd. Plenty like to run late to these games

Pretty sure that, despite his recent "second half surge," I'm not a big fan of the JMJ in the 2-hole experiment.

Despite the fury it may unleash, I actually prefer Brown there. Firstly, he gets more AB's. Secondly, he works a count and gives JRoll a chance to make something happen on the basepaths. I think he's actually more patient there, as a result.

It was me. You're a schmuck.
Feel better?

Incidentally, if and when you decide to post your childish taunts and insults using your real name, then, and only then do you have the credibility to question someone's guts.

Have a nice day.

What exactly did Manuel say to Kendrick in his office a few weeks ago? Start pitching better or we'll actually send you to Japan this time?

Aside from a few HRs late in his outings, he has been virtually flawless. I can't believe that scrapping his cutter would make this much of a difference. All his pitches have noticeably better movement.

I think we can all agree that Ruf would have hit one 536 ft in that AB (and probably worked a pretty good count to get into the 'pen earlier, to boot).

WP- I'm with you on Brown in the 2-hole. Despite his putrid last few weeks, he is best suited out of that spot. One of the most patient hitters on the team, though that isn't exactly high praise.

Ice, best I can figure is that Cholly is trying to help Brown find his power stroke, by dropping him to a position that's less about strategy and more about mashing.

But it could just be because Brown has sucked.

"Three straight strikeouts for Kendrick."

Today's sign that the apocalypse is impending.

If Cholly uses the "we're not mathematically eliminated" line of thinking, I shudder to think of Mini Mart's role with this team once they are...

I love how Cloyd wasn't even asked if he could start on short rest Thursday, nor did he even know it was going to happen until after his start yesterday, nor has he ever done it.

They are 0-2 on fill-in pitching decisions this season with 2 strikeouts.

BAP: Depends on the ballpark.

BTW, I absolutely want to see Ruf get a chance to play. He's a great story. I'm just not as convinced as you and some others here that's he's a star. I think he's unlikely to be more than a spare part at the MLB level.

Holy smokes.

"So, rather than asking why Ruf isn't starting for Howard (seriously?)

Howard's years of futility vs lefties count more than the pitcher's brief career. Plus Howard played both games yesterday. Plus plus, stop being a douchebag. There's no need for snotty remarks toughguy.

I know it is early for Thanksgiving but I am still thankful that MG never takes the minute to proofread his posts. We'd miss out on little gems like this one:

"HR every ~28 HRs"


Interesting.

Tom: If that came off as snotty, I apologize. But your suggestion was pretty out there. I am one of Darrin Ruf's biggest advocates on Beerleaguer, but even I think it would be insanity to call a guy up from the minors &, in his very first game, start him over Ryan Howard. Cholly wouldn't do that if Clayton Kershaw were on the mound -- let alone a LH pitcher with extreme reverse splits. And LeBlanc has 346 inning pitched in his career. His splits are not a statistical fluke.

I still want to know when the pod-person who replaced KK in August.

Domo has been striking out ALOT ALOT more lately

Any ideas as to why?

I took the Fish too tonight. A LHP pitcher the Phils have hardly seen who is pitching well and has a good changeup is lethal to this current lineup.

What else are they supposed to do on Thursday, Ice?

Call up Scott Elarton?

They only have 5 starters on the roster. The DH on Sunday means somebody is going to have to start on short-rest on Thursday. Its either Cloyd or Hamels. Which one would you choose?

They are playing a AA team in Houston anyway. Probably could pitch Clout and beat them.

And once Frandsen comes back, he will hit 2nd. And Mayberry will go back to his rightful spot in the 5 hole. Unless you'd rather see Mini Mart in the 2 hole tonight instead.

Cholly is trying (the best he can) to not have a lineup so easy to matchup with late in games. You put Brown in the 2 hole, and then you have S, L, L, L, R, R, R, S. Too easy to deal with that. Mayberry isn't best suited to hit 2nd. But its either him or Wiggy. And Mayberry has clearly hit better then Wiggy for about 2 straight months. Its an easy decision.

MG: Now you're just trying to humor TTI.

Sorry to get fired up BAP. It all seems to add up for tonight to me, even moreso with RH's four pitch strikeout. They called him up so they may as well play him. And RH isn't exactly the bees knees right now.

KKKKK

Ruf's first major league start is likely to be Thursday in Houston, against LHP Keuchle.

Again, if you start Ruf tonight at 1B, your available bench (thinking Frandsen isn't ready) would be the following:

Howard (LH)
Pierre (LH)
LeRud (LH)
Schierholtz (LH)
Nix (LH)
Orr (LH)

Ruiz (RH)

See any problem there?

Spare parts get a lot of playing time on this team.

At least with Colorado we had the pitch count limit to get these crap throwing starters out. No such luck today against Joey Tribbiani.

MG- they've now scored 3 ER in 17 innings against this guy. Pretty easy to predict futility.

What's not easy to predict is Kendrick K'ing everyone in a lineup that is apparently mailing it in (I realize this is a tailor-made jinx).

LeBlac is a real fireball out there isnt he?

"A LHP pitcher the Phils have hardly seen who is pitching well and has a good changeup is lethal to this current lineup."

Pretty much ANY pitcher is lethal to this current lineup.

Schneider and Kratz are good for KK because they are 'firm but not affirmative' TMac? Even Wheels didn't know how to respond to that stupid comment.

Another brutal season of play-by-play with TMac. Makes it hard to listen to 9 innings even in the background.

Martinez, Kendrick, Rollins due up.

I suspect the futility will continue for at least another inning.

I am sorry but I will never understand betting against a team you like and conceivably want to win the game.

Silly.

BAP - Scouting report reads something like this:

Phils' Offensive Weaknesses: MLB pitching

Since Sept 7th, MM has a .889 OPS. No worries about the bottom 3rd anymore.

MG, I'm not sure which is the more egregious act perpetuated on their fan base in defiance of the 8th amendment by the 2012 Phillies - the continued employment of TMac or the continued employment of Michael Martinez.

Either way, both offenses are emblematic of a season that will ultimately go down as largely forgettable.

Micro mart strike the fear in many a pitcher

"Pretty much ANY pitcher is lethal to this current lineup."


How do you explain averaging 5 runs a game for the past 3 weeks then?

denny b - Divine intervention.

"Martinez, Kendrick, Rollins due up.

I suspect the futility will continue for at least another inning.

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, September 10, 2012 at 07:49 PM"


I was actually trying for a reverse jinx there. I really should leave this sh8t to GTown...

KKKKKK

Since August 1, they have averaged exactly 4.00 runs/game (37 GP) which is well below the NL average of 4.30

Kendrick is doing his best to dis-spell my "set your watch to his reversion" comment, however.

I'm about 2 more strikeouts away from relenting and agreeing that he may, indeed, be a viable 'major league starter.'

TBag appears to be lactating.

Kendrick looks as good as the offense looks bad.

I'm guessing that the longer Kendrick's no-no goes, the less the chance that we'll see a Ruf pinch hit AB...

dennyb- not sure why I continue to respond to your buffoonery, but I have for like three years running so why stop now?

I was criticizing the communication on the Cloyd issue more than the decision itself. It isn't like they have a ton of options. But I would have liked to think outside the box for once and given Ethan Martin a look on Thursday. Have a quick hook on him if he struggles. Either way, I'm surprised you aren't in favor of the bullpen you love pitching the whole game, since they are so stacked, they can't possibly sign a second veteran FA reliever.

And Cholly has never constructed the lineup paying any mind to evening out LH/RH batters, or anything for that matter. Lineup construction is the one thing about which I believe he is utterly clueless. He had Utley/Howard/Ibanez flailing against LHP in the late innings for a good majority of Ibanez's contract. He hit Martinez 2nd 21 times last year. Ruiz had to literally light the ball on fire before he moved him out of the 7/8 hole this year, and truthfully Ruiz should have been higher in the order since 2010. He isn't strategically doing anything. He's pulling names out of a hat.

I don't really feel one way or the other about Mayberry in the 2-hole tonight. I'm fine with it. He should be getting ABs against this type of pitcher. But just solely on the type of hitter he is (so far), Brown is suited as a 2-hole guy. It really isn't that controversial.

MG- that's uttlery shocking. I wonder what happened on July 31st/Aug 1st that would have caused an offensive malaise?

Iceman: I wrote a post about Ethan Martin this morning. The problem, I believe, is that you'd have to add him to the 40-man roster even though he is still a year or two away from Rule 5 draft eligibility. And, if you go to remove him, you expose him to waivers. The upshot is that, if you added Martin to the 40-man roster, you would have to keep him there -- which would mean one less prospect that we could protect from the Rule 5 draft. And, if I recall correctly, we have a decent number of newly eligible guys who are actually worth protecting this year.

Mini Mart still being around is a way bigger crime than TMac. McCarthy is a company guy and ultimately inoffensive, but Mini Mart looks like he has no business on a baseball field.

One of the two I can tune out. The other I can not.

I really hope KK pulls the impossible tonight...that would be awesome to see for him.

Iceman: "MG- that's uttlery shocking. I wonder what happened on July 31st/Aug 1st that would have caused an offensive malaise?"

Ooo, Ooo (hand in air), I know, I know. Can I answer?

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