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Thursday, August 30, 2012


Hard to blame Luna -- 66 PA, 4 XBH, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 4 BB, .226/.273/.355 -- for wanting to leave AAA ball when Martinez* -- 69 PA, 2 XBH, 2 HR, 6 RBI, 4 BB, .141/.191/.234 -- gets regular playing time w/ the big club.

*Numbers not updated to include Martinez's 0-4, 2 K, 5 LOB performance this afternoon.

RE: Utley at 3rd

Mets announcers suggested Polly probably felt disenfranchised when Utley volunteered to try 3rd base. I was thinking this yesterday too, i wonder if it's true.

RE: J-Roll

He didnt run especially hard on his double earlier in the game so Cholly was probably already halfway mad at him before the 6th inning.

Anyone who's only argument is, "I'm better than Michael Martinez," may want to start looking for a new career...

I would be in favor of Utley moving to third only on one condition: The Phillies promise to get rid of Polanco.

He's been a great Phillie, twice. Great fielder. Good guy overall. But it's time for retirement. He's made his money. I'll be sure to buy him a beer any time I see him. Now, please retire and don't force the Phillies to buy you out. There's a good fella.

Certainly not going to defend J-Roll on his loafing on the dropped pop up... but on the earlier double, I saw no evidence of loafing. That hit is a single for many players.

I have to wonder if Rollins got pulled only for not hustling on the popup. Kendrick was on third on the following grounder and JRoll got picked off of second base. He probably missed the "not running on contact" sign as well. That may have been the final straw for today.

And for those who think TMac has no real emotion, did you all hear the pain in his voice when Rollins popped up the second time in a row? It was actually the most human moment I've ever heard from him. Of course, when they dropped the popup and Rollins was only standing on first, Sarge took off on him so TMac didn't get to.

I cannot stand Sarge or Tom McCarthy in the broadcast booth. They cause me ear and brain pain. But that was one of the rare times they were actually on point.

Can't expect Jimmy to hustle every single time he pops up, that would be exhausting.

I have to wonder if Rollins got pulled only for not hustling on the popup.

Cholly said it was for not running out the popup.

I wonder if he got pulled only for the pop up no more.

But it also looked like he missed a sign there right after. It's not often you'd run your pitcher on contact and possibly get him rung up on a play at the plate.

Ruf yeah maybe I want cody on 40 man. I'd rather give a guy a look that's gonna make an Impact. Then a guy that is trying to do what Howard and jon s try to do outfield.

Lorecore. Response from request for data in earlier post. Some stats and an interesting article and even more interesting comment to the article below the article. But before we turn to the article. Here is a little data from MLB. Of the current top 10 batters only one has been to college. Of the top 10 rookies all but two (foreign nationals) have been to college. In other words the older stars have been plucked out of HS and the newer ones out of college. Although only 40% of MLB players are college kids, between the foreign born and college kids American High schools are a minority these days in the MLB. This trend is likely to continue.
Why is college better? It isn't necessarily better it's just that you have a better idea of what you are getting from a 20--22 year old then a 16-18 year old. It's a safer path for a team to draft a college star then a high school star.
Now the article: the article discusses the pros and cons of drafting high school vs. college but there is a really solid rebuttal from the comment directly below the article.

On the replay Jimmy seems to be running a lot harder from 1st to 2nd than from home to 1st. I realize Wheels said during the replay that he ran hard right out of the box. The Mets announcers did not concur. FWIW it took Jimmy 8.2 seconds to get to second base (from the crack of the bat) and it took Mayberry 8.5 seconds to get to 2nd standing on his double in the 5th. Not conclusive evidence, just an interesting anecdote.

I don't think Jimmy is lazy he just gets so frustrated when he makes poor contact that it drains the life out of him. Utley get's visibly disappointed too with that look on his face while he immediately looks to the ground and subsequently tosses his bat after he hits a weak fly ball. Utley though, seems to run harder just after.

ODB, that explains Utley's knee problems; running hard to first base after sure out contact with the ball. If he loafed like JRoll, he'd be a lot healthier.

If there's one thing that grows tiresome quickly it's the polarized opinions of "Jimmy's lazy and doesn't run out pop-ups" vs. "People who call Jimmy lazy are idiots/racist" arguments. Nothing stirs up opinion like an argument that no one is going to "win." Though, it does seem as if Cholly is siding with the former crowd...

Personally, my opinion is that I'm sure it's tough to stay motivated at your job when there's nothing to really play for (hell, my corporate year this year is pretty well an exercise in futility and there are days that I mail it in). However, that said, you sure as hell can't blast your fan base (those that pay your salary) by saying they're not "true fans" or they're "front runners," when essentially your actions are proving you as a hypocrite when things are all rainbows and unicorns.

Net/net, considering they're out of it, I don't care that he's not giving much right now, but I sure as hell don't want to hear a word out of his mouth about empty seats, front runners or "true fans."

*should be AREN'T all rainbows and unicorns

I think Sweet Polly Purebread and St. Utley just ought to swap positions. That will make the Saint look like he's volunteering for the good of team and SPP can now get over the complex of losing the 2nd base position to Saint back in 2005.

That way both 2nd and 3rd bases will be incompetently filled -- everyone happy?

Urbina’s not but that’s another chapter

Careful on criticizing Rollins, fellas. Bill Baer might stroll over here and call us all rascists.

kust in case you wonder what's on other baseball city's overall baseball blogsphere's mind

'kust' -- not the word ... JUST

Its Aug 30th and Polly's contract is up in 30 days...who gives a rats arse what he thinks at this point.

I wish dopes like Baer would drop it with the race thing. It is legitimately a race issue with some, but largely it is not why he gets singled out.

I honestly think it's the front-runner thing. People took grave offense to that and still won't drop it because Rollins called people out for what they are. The sensitivity of those who are still harping on it after four years (or five? I don't care enough to remember) speaks volumes.

Largely, this hustle thing is such a non-story. But people loathe him because he called them out on a Fox Sports show half a decade ago, and they will never let him forget it, so stuff like this will get beaten into the ground until he eventually leaves the city in the rear-view mirror (for the record, I hope that never happens, but the writing is on the wall).

I wish dopes like Baer would drop it with the race thing. It is legitimately a race issue with some, but largely it is not why he gets singled out.

Posted by: Iceman | Thursday, August 30, 2012 at 07:08 PM


Loved his blog and statistics talk, but won't visit it now. Shame really.

Not to dwell on this but I finally saw a video of the infamous popup and my god that's a play you see a thousand times a year. Rollins didn't run any less than 90% of players do on that. Rarely does a player bust it on that. In fact when a play like that happens with 2 outs and men on, everybody takes a half hearted stroll the next base. I don't know what this was about.

3r0ck: For a minute I thought you were talking about this blog and my reaction was, "Thank God!"

gobaystars - There was one out. And there was a runner on third. Most hitters don't run past first if there's a runner on second for obvious reasons. But there was nothing keeping him from being on second except for lackadaisical play.

I have been one of those defending Rollins about running hard on every play. He's had leg injuries and he has to throttle it back a little. But he could have literally jogged to second on that play before the ball was dropped and there was nothing stopping. He didn't have to run hard. That's the difference.

Correction, I believe there was nobody out and Kendrick on third.

asksmith, read my post again. I think you misread that part about 2 outs. I was saying lead runners do the same thing when there are two outs. 90% of hitters do exactly what Rollins did regardless of how many outs there are.

And ther was nobody anywhere near second base...he could have crawled there!

Oops, I was right the first time. One out.

re Rollins. Do you know what you call man who makes $1,000,000 a month playing a kid's game and doesn't hustle?

An a$$hole.

Can't expect Jimmy to hustle every single time he pops up, that would be exhausting.

This has been out there for two hours and nobody has extended the thread winner's laurel wreath to dragon? Shame, BL.

What did I misread? I don't care what other players do. On this particular play, he could have jogged to second, which wasn't even covered. You just do it if your head is in the game. And he wouldn't have to run hard.

That's the key thing. He didn't have to run hard at all to be standing on second.

Anyway, tired of even thinking about it. Good win for KK.

So kuvasz you give 100% effort at all times when you work? You run every step? You hustle like a maniac? Never goof off at your computer while on the clock? Or is it acceptable to take it easy because you don't make millions of dollars? I'm not trying to show you up or anything, I just really want to fully understand this oft repeated comment.

Iceman, I agree that Jimmy is "picked on" because of his front runners comment.

However, if your argument is that JRoll should be able to give a sub-par effort (to the point where even Manuel viewed it as egregiously sub-par) simply because it's a meaningless pop-up in a meaningless game, aren't you presuming that some moments 'count' more than others? In other words, how is that different from being a front runner, in and of itself, and only 'showing up' when the moment warrants it?

On second thought, don't really answer that. I don't want to waste my own effort on a meaningless debate in a meaningless season.

the part you misread was my hypothetical about 2 out situations and how the lead runners all do the same thing. i wasn't saying that there were 2 outs when rollins hit the ball.
it was a completely normal play. it happens everyday just like that. rollins getting extra grief for it is strange. i don't get what charlie was doing there.

gobay, no one puts forth 100% effort 100% of the time. Hell, I'm at work right now and I'm posting on Beerleaguer when I have an executive presentation to prepare.

I think where the issue lies is that it's fine to give less than 100%, but don't cast stones on fans for being fair weathered (giving less than "100% fandom") in the process. That comes across as hypocritical.

but agreed that it is a silly issue.
although, i would like a $$ equals hustle explanation. do people who make that sort of comment accept laziness from waiters, cable installers, bank tellers and teachers who don't make millions?

3r0ck: For a minute I thought you were talking about this blog and my reaction was, "Thank God!"
Posted by: clout | Thursday, August 30, 2012 at 07:30 PM

Wouldn't want to leave you in the sandbox by yourself buddy! Now what fun would that be?

I always hustle. Every time. Doesn't matter if I'm trying to leg out an infield hit on a ball I roped halfway to the shortstop, or on a fly ball I grotesquely misplayed in left. Not like that lazy bum JStroll! No siree! I'm working hard on that roster spot for next year!

I just want to get waived. Is that so wrong?

I can see why someone would think that, willard. I've always taken Rollins front runner comments differently. I like to believe, and I could never prove this, that the infamous "front runner" comment served to get everyone off of Howard, Victorino and other guys on a struggling team and on Rollins. It was a pretty cool move. He became the villain and he could handle it. Pressure was off them and on Rollins.
And that is my most fanciful theory about the good years phillies. Oh that and that they knew Garcia was hurt but had to take a chance.

Ruf new reading hr leader

38 for Ruf. 3-Run shot to left. Ryno has been dethroned.

I can't explain my feelings on the issue any better than this brief excerpt from John Updike's classic piece on Ted Williams:

For me, Williams is the classic ballplayer of the game on a hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Baseball is a game of the long season, of relentless and gradual averaging-out. Irrelevance -- since the reference point of most individual contests is remote and statistical -- always threatens its interest, which can be maintained not by the occasional heroics that sportswriters feed upon but by the players who always care; who care, that is to say, about themselves and their art.

Rollins, to me, seems more like a kick returner/WR trapped in the body of an MLB player. He's a player for the once-a-week spotlight, not the grind-it-out long season.

Salisbury: "Congrats to Darin Ruf. He is the Eastern League MVP. Well deserved."


Babe Ruf & the Rufians!!

So Ruf is officially better than Howard then?


So was that --
ruf in left,
gillies, center,
brown in right

About time. This Ruf guy has sapped 6 weeks of my valuable time reading boxscores.

Being Delusional

Is it great?

Ruf has a 1.309 OPS vs LHP this year in Reading.

That's pretty impressive regardless of level.

20 HR's in the month of August for Ruf.

That is unbelievable.

Reading is going to be in the EL playoffs, so we may have to wait on Babe Ruf's debut in Philly for another week or so.

What a coincidence that a spot opened up on the 40-man...

Bring him up!

Can all comments about hustle start with the phrase "In my day"?

The Phils could still shift Stutes or Galvis or Worley to the 60 day DL if they wanted to and open up an additional spot or spots.

Plus I think somebody (Wiggy or Pierre) will be traded at some point as well in the next few days.

Still don't think its a coincidence though that Luna was dumped off the 40 man. Wasn't done for the hell of it. Especially with LV battling for the playoffs. That is a big loss for Sandberg's team.

Now both MM & Ruf are safe from being picked by a rival team under Rule 5

Whew That was close, couldn't afford to lose MM just because of the Babe!

Wait, Ruf can hit homers and read? I knew he was smarter than the 93 club.

"2 HR's in the year of 2012 for Mini Mart.

That is unbelievable."


To put Ruf's season into perspective, here's the Eastern League's Top 5 in wOBA

1. Darin Ruf - .452
2. Thomas Neal - .391
3. Robbie Widlansky - .390
4. David Adams - .386
5. Chun Chen - .377

That's one hell of a gap between 1st and 2nd place there.

His ISO is about 100 points higher than the next closest guy too.

Mike Olt in the Texas League is the closest AA hitter to him with a .427 wOBA.


I'm not saying that he'd be good in the Majors, I'm just showing where he is in AA.

You know what would be funny? If Mini Mart was busted for PED use.

Ruf needs to raise his average 2 points to take the Eastern League Triple Crown.

He's got a good lead in HRs & RBI already.

Is the AA triple crown more or less impressive than the ones they give out a Burger King?
I'm kidding. To quote Crash Davis "that's a career in any league." Good for Ruf. I wish him well but I'm not betting on him working out. But wouldn't it be great if he showed up in spring and hit and kept hitting?

Limitless shirt sales working the Ruf name.

***Is the AA triple crown more or less impressive than the ones they give out a Burger King? ***

I believe they are equal.

Dave: Updike's childhood home here in Shillington was just sold this week. It will become a museum. Not much of a bookreader, did he write alot about baseball?

Conway: Not much that I know of. However, the entire magazine piece ("Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu") is well worth reading:

a diamond in the ruf.

What's more impressive?

1. Ruf hitting 38 HRs in Reading?
2. Hamilton stealing 154 bases in A+/AA combined this year?

NEPP: I'd say Hamilton. That number is simply insane.

Insufferable Red Sox romanticizing B.S.

I think the stolen bases are a bit more impressive. Stealing bases translates well to higher levels. Hitting homeruns not as often.

Although, on a team that should be waving goodbye to Wiggy, Pierre, one of Nix or Schierholz, Minimart and Polanco in the near future, it would sure be nice to get a late season look at Ruf in the majors. Dare I say it? It would be "fun." As much as I hate to throw that word around this season. Yes, I said it. Fun.

No, gobaystars, unlike you I am not a phuck off at work. I don't use company computers to check out beer leaguer or porn. I go to work early, leave late, and hustle from the time I walk in the door, and take work home with me, and I flat detest anyone who slacks off on the job; I consider it theft. I especially detest behavior like that from a man who makes more in a week than I do in a year and you bet that if I were a teammate of that piece of $hit that I would have gotten in a nasty fist fight with Rollins immediately after the game. Rollins' behavior was both childish and insulting, to the fans whose dollars pay his salary and to his teammates who are out there doing their best. His behavior is poison to any organization, and I hope that one of his teammates beats his phucking head in for it. It would be about time that someone jacked up Rollins for being slack.

Hamilton's mark is more impressive for sure -- Ruf's total is well short of the minor league record.

BUT, I would say Ruf's 20 HRs in August might be as impressive as Hamilton (or at least close). I've looked to see what the minor league record for HRs in a month is but couldn't find it. I know the major league mark is 20 (Sosa).

I like the idea of this kuvasz character walking through the office or whatever his or her work place may be and punching people in the face who are taking it easy. A third bathroom break today? Ass kicked!! Checking personal e-mail? Step outside, son!! Run down that hall!! Knees up!! Walking is theft and I will kick your ass!!

gobay: All I ask is that you run hard 4 times a day to and from the bathroom.

Generally speaking, I don't think it's all that comical when people post under the handle of a Phillie player or coach, and try to make cute jokes at the expense of that Phillie or his critics. Nonetheless, when the rare exception turns up, due credit must be given. Hence, I hereby give due credit to the poster using the Mini-Mart handle, whose schtick is actually pretty amusing. That sets him apart from the real Mini-Mart, who isn't the least bit amusing.

BAP - Maybe this should assist in some sober thought on the jump from the minors to the majors. Before he was brought up this time, Martinez was actually on a hitting tear in AAA. I think he had his previously moribund average up into the 270s. He'll be lucky to get into the 150s in the majors at this pace.

"unlike you I am not a phuck off at work. I don't use company computers to check out beer leaguer or porn."

Me neither. I hustle every minute that I'm at work. That way, I can finish up my work and have plenty of time leftover to check out Beerleaguer and surf for porn.

***BUT, I would say Ruf's 20 HRs in August might be as impressive as Hamilton (or at least close). I've looked to see what the minor league record for HRs in a month is but couldn't find it. I know the major league mark is 20 (Sosa).***

I've never had any luck finding those type of minor-league I dont think they place much importance on such things.

Ruf's august performance this month is nothing short of the ML record.

aksmith: Only 122 PAs, though. Besides, the difference between Ruf and Mini-Mart (aside from the .300 point difference in OPS) is that Mini-Mart has had a fair shot to prove his major league bona fides. That is all I ask for Ruf. Some minor league hitters can jump to the majors without skipping a beat; some can't make the jump at all. When a guy is hitting .320 with 38 homers at AA, I'd say he has earned his chance to show which category he falls into.

He sounds like a joy to work with...officious asses are what make the office oh so enjoyable. They're typically the ones I call the "prairie dogs" of the office. Every office has one. They're the one that jumps up from the cube like a prairie dog out of its hole every time the door opens to see who it is and they incessantly keep track of what everyone else is doing because they are so self-righteously sure that they are by far the best employee on earth. This person also typically doesn't realize that nobody there likes them and there are very good reasons why they keep getting passed over for promotions instead of their far less worthy co-workers.

***and take work home with me***

Either you're single or you hate your family.

Either way, you're an idiot for doing that.

So Kuvasz is Terry Tate the office linebacker?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I just couldn't remember who exactly was the office linebacker.

Dave: Thank you so much for that link! And of course, gobay disagrees. I don't think there could be 2 more polar opposites than he and I.

BAP - I happen to find Mini Mart's ineptitude amusong. Like, how much lower can his average dip before blind dumb luck occurs and he reaches base?


Sil: Cholly seems hell-bent on finding out. He's so far below the Mendoza Line, he needs a new mark. How about the Limbo Line. "How low can you go, everyone do the limbo now."

Sounds good, Conway. Either that or the "Worse Than the Pitcher" line. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well, though.

I just want to get waived. Is that so wrong?

Posted by: James Calvin Rollins (certified,rectified,justified) | Thursday, August 30, 2012 at 07:51 PM

In my view, this is the post of the thread. Rollins is done with Manual and the team in general. He knows that insubordination would have to be over-the-top egregious to get him suspended, so he's made a parody of himself.

Make it happen, RAJ -- get "JRoll" out of town. Sure, wait until November to get value, but Rollins is the ultimate personification of the dissention I predicted earlier.

Rollin's attitude is the essence of " can't go home again." The bridge has not only been burned, someone has diverted the stream, so a bridge is no longer necessary.

This is the greatest tragedy in Phillies baseball since Dick Allen. Except Jimmy’s not ever coming back as a “good will” ambassador, ala Ritchie. Too much vitriol’s been exuded. What a freakin’ mess.

So Kuvasz is the guy nobody likes in an office. He also is probably the guy who doesn't work as hard as he thinks he does but likes to project like he does.

Excellent post, Cut. Sadly true.

the "back in my day" comments about baseball players never taking a day off is always my favorite...

Back in the Day players didn't have 162 games televised. They didn't have 3 million fans cross turnstiles. They didn't have 24 hour networks devoted to their sport. They didn't have a tenth of the eyeballs trained on them that players today do.

You know what? Players took plays off all the time... they played games hungover... they dogged it... they flipped their bat in disgust...

this isn't to excuse Rollins. But today's "lack of hustle" had nothing to do with dogging it or resting his legs or "laziness".. it had everything to do with the frustration of hitting a pop up 3 feet from home plate with a runner on third. That's not excusable either... as a leader he has to mask that frustration better... At the very least Rollins needs a day or two off in general... and needs to be rested more often... there's not a good reason at this point in this season to keep him out there 6 days a week at his age. That rest could help him get his bat back in order...

Definitely Rollins gets a lot of heat for the Front Runner comments... which were absolutely true... deal with it. But it was helpful to shield the criticism that ryno was receiving at that time. (the guy was sitting next to him and feeling tons of heat at that point)... But if you don't think its tinged a bit with racially coded commentary you are mistaken... when people compare Rollins to KR/WR they aren't talking about people who look like Wes Welker.

The problem now is... that each circumstance builds on itself. And its only going to get worse for Rollins. Unless he deals with these frustrations and soon.

cut_fastball's post is best explained by Rick James:

"Cocaine is a helluva drug."

"You know what would be funny? If Mini Mart was busted for PED use."

Come on, compadres. Cut me some slack already! Do you think I'd have an OPS of .402 and two jacks if I weren't juicing? Get real!!!

Cholly wrong this time. 95% of mlb players wouldn't hustle on an infield popup except AAAA guys like Pete Orr. Let's put him at short because he is a gritty gamer who hustles. Really?? This made Cholly look bad and may help move him out of town.

Wouldn't know Mr. Truth. Would you? What else ya’ got?

Am I the only person that sees no wrong in benching Rollins?

It's not like he doesn't have a history of this. He was talked too 2 weeks ago about it.

If anything it wasn't one play but an a combination. From just giving up running to second on that double play, to trotting out the box ( literally he was trotting ).

The comments to this entry are closed.

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