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Wednesday, August 29, 2012

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This will be RAJ's first opportunity to see Cloyd pitch in person. Tells you a lot right there.

I had to laugh. On Saturday night I went to the Iron Pigs game. There were 4 very nice folks behind me and we chatted throughout the game. The one woman kept complaining about guys that had been called up during the course of the season. It finally dawned on me. She wasn't a Phillies fan. She was a Piggy fan. It was cracking me up. She was absolutely furious about losing all these players as the Pigs made a push for the playoffs. I felt like saying to her, "ask the players how they feel". I'm betting none of them say, "can I please wait a week or two? I want to help my teamates win a championship." Iron Pigs fans. Who knew?

Reposted from last thread:

Once again the Phillies crack medical staff has moved in and saved a player's life. Or just missed it by a month or so. Either way, he didn't die and that's a victory.

Worley played the good soldier, but pitching with bone chips in his elbow can be a painful thing. Because if it wasn't painful, he never would have noticed and they never would have tested him.

Though there are subtle differences in the circumstances, we've observed the difference between Worley and Schwimmer.

Yeah, I really didn't get keeping him in the rotation to bolster that slim-to-none chance at the playoffs.

Repost:

Not happy Worley is hurt, but I'm happy the Phillies finally ended the charade of having him take the hill every 5 turns.

Let's hope he recovers from the surgery and returns to the level he reached prior to the All Star break:

mid 3's ERA, decent K/BB, etc.

Pretty big difference in circumstances; the Phils likely see Worley as a useable piece moving forward, but I doubt they see Schwimer as much more than ... wait for it ... fungible.

I meant how the players have handled the situation.

smitty, isn't "Phillies crack medical staff" a contradiction in terms?


I guess what I find so disconcerting is that they've know since June that he was going to need offseason surgery. Add to that the fact that he was pitching poorly, and that it was pretty clear that Cloyd or someone else in the system could probably have given them as much as Worley has recently - because this wasn't the Vanimal we've come to like, but a spectre of himself brought on by injury.

I'll take them at their word that he wasn't risking further injury, but why not shut him down, get the surgery over with, and hasten and accellerate the rehab process to get him ready for 2013?

Color me shocked.

Crack Medical Staff? Isn't their practice located at 10th and Dauphin?

NEPP, IIRC, listed a hierarchy of the types of people held in contempt in the great State of Vermont.

I believe he listed Québécois at the bottom of the list. This article would seem to bear that out: :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194797/Burlington-Vermont-restaurants-automatically-adds-tip-foreigners-bills.html

MG: "Worley's been awful this month (6 GS, 31 IP, 1-3, 5.23 ERA, 1.81 WHIP, 4.6 K/9, 3.2 BB/9) and hard to see how Cloyd couldn't improve on that a bit. "

We shall see, that's at least a generous leash that Cloyd could be given. I'd probably predict him for a pretty similar line.... 5IP/GS, 5.2 ERA, 4.6 K/9

I think the reason that Rube finally euthanized Worley is that last night's putrid loss finally convinced him that all is lost. If so, I'll bet you he's a regular caller to Angelo Cataldi.

This move mostly concerns me tomorrow, when the Mets get to face Kyle Kendrick for the second consecutive day.

Even the posters over at Littleleaguer.com have been calling for Worley to be shut down.

Is Montgomery too chummy with his charges not to see that there is something wrong with how they handle injuries?

They are notorious for not tipping...FWIW.

With the way that this franchise has handled the development of its prospects and reclamation projects, free agent negotiations (Madson) and the health of the roster, there is a very real need for a complete overhaul in the front office.

If my math is right, there shouldn't need to be a move to add Cloyd to the 40-man (I have them at only 39). And the Worley DL move frees up the roster spot on the 25-man.

That's one less 40-man spot to get creative about come September when now you just need to figure out how to add Ruf. Anyone know if the Contreras 60-day DL stint does that already?

When I was young I spent a winter waiting tables in Ft. Lauderdale. 25% of the customers were Quebecois. They think tipping is a city in China and soap and water is a tool of the devil.

They were at 37 spots before Cloyd was added. Contreras wasnt on it because of the 60 day.

I'd imagine they put Worley on the 60 day DL too to free up another spot in anticipation of Sept callups.

All I have to say about Worley is that it's about damn time.

Tonight's Lineup: Rollins (SS), Pierre (LF), Utley (2B), Howard (1B), Mayberry (CF), Nix (RF), Frandsen (3B), Kratz (C), Cloyd (P).

No Dom. That's 3 of the past 4 games, & we saw what he looked like yesterday. So far as I'm concerned, r00b has all 3 OF spots to fill for '13. Brown is too injury prone to be counted upon.

Last night was the loss that made them finally realize this season is over.

When I was young I spent a winter waiting tables in Ft. Lauderdale. 25% of the customers were Quebecois. They think tipping is a city in China and soap and water is a tool of the devil.

Posted by: donc | Wednesday, August 29, 2012 at 03:58 PM

Now you've done it, donc. The "you're anti-white" jackass will be arriving shortly...

Now they have to bring up at least a couple more pitchers Sept. 1st because the pen is not going to be battered and beaten. The odds of Cloyd going deep into games isn't good, especially since he's seeming to tire as the season winds down.

And I have to say thank God they finally shut Worley down. It's been obvious for about a month now to anyone watching him that he's pitching in pain, and is not the same pitcher he was last year and early this season.

Here's all anyone need to know about this season. Tonights lineup features Jon Mayberry hitting fifth against a righty.

I'm assuming it's a righty because Pierre and Nix are in the lineup. But I haven't looked because I've been so excited since learning Cloyd, the next Greg Maddux, is coming to the majors.

The Quebecois are white like the Irish are white.

I keed, I keed!

Kevin Cooney: "Utley confirms he went to Ruben, asked to give 3b a try two days ago. Today was first practice."

Gotta free up that 2B spot so the Phils can sport an INF featuring two players who'll struggle to maintain a .300 OBP ... And if you think I'm kidding, you haven't been paying attention. r00b loves hisself some Galvis.

Chase Utley is taking grounders at third base. He approached Amaro about doing it to see if it would create additional flexibility going into next year.

Of course, 3B isn't as physically demanding as 2B, so there is a side benefit for Utley. Still more demanding than 1B and there have always been questions about Utley's ability to man 3B.

Good. Let's Worley get an early start on his rehab after the surgery instead of waiting until mid-October.

Numbers since he came off the DL:

16 GS, 89 IP (5.5 IP/GS), 3-7, 4.75 ERA, 1.66 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 1.9 K/BB, 5% swing and miss, 21% LD rate

Phils are just 5-11 in those 16 GS. Worley hasn't been competitive & isn't going deep enough into games.

Been a disappointing year but he was pitching pretty well before he went on the DL in May. Hope he gets his elbow cleared out, has plenty of time to rehab, and is ready to go next Feb.

I'm sure Utley's arm strength has improved in the past 10 years because that's how it works, right? You get better as you enter your mid-30s.

Gonna be a whole bunch of bounced throws to 1B if he's playing 3B.

The real question for Utley at 3B is his arm...it wasn't adequate for third when he was 25, I doubt it will be now.

Frandsen is playing very good baseball. So, Utley wants his position? Huh?

Utley barely has the arm for second base. I would hate to see Ryan Howard making kick saves at first all day.

Utley's plan at 3B will be to use the pitcher as a cutoff man on throws to first.

It wouldn't hurt either if Worley came back next year with a half-decent offspeed either.

He throws a slider, changeup, and a curveball but only the slider is anything that approaches an average grade pitch.

I see you got to it first, NEPP.

Utley may well be able to field the position, but I really don't think he's going to be able to make the throws across the diamond to 1B.

We can joke all we want about how bad of an idea it is... but...

1) It's admirable for Utley to step up and say, "Let's give this a try." He wants this team to succeed and with the dearth of options out there, why not?

2) With the dearth of options out there... why not!?!?!?

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Certainly can't hurt us to be creative.

Utley's plan at 3B will be to use the pitcher as a cutoff man on throws to first.

Posted by: NEPP | Wednesday, August 29, 2012 at 04:18 PM

I think it'd be more effective to flip the ball to a waiting JRoll on every throw to 1B.

KAS: There is no upside to this experiment. The 2012 season is lost. In 2013 the Phillies will need a new 3B, but opening a hole at 2B is not the way to go about fixing things.

Cesar Hernandez seems closer than any 3b prospects we have so far I don't mind Utley trying out 3rd base. No harm in the experiment.

Sadly, the 2B FA market is just as pathetic as the 3B, so even if Utley did make it as a 3B, there's no positive trade off.

Any 2B you could get on FA, or bring up internally(Galvis, Frandsen, Cesar) might as well move to 3B themselves instead of Utley.

Stupid. Love that it took this long to shut Worley down and that it took equally as long to get Doc looked at. This front office says they are all about pitching yet they don't want to take care of their arms when it is painfully obvious something isn't right.

I like the forward-thinking Utley showed by asking to take some balls at 3rd. If only he could get his manager and GM to think in the same way from time to time.

These Chooch and Utley to 3B moves make this team feel like some ragtag pickup game team. That is what's really depressing.

I'd rather see Utley shagging flies in left field.

These Chooch and Utley to 3B moves make this team feel like some ragtag pickup game team. That is what's really depressing.

Posted by: Joe D | Wednesday, August 29, 2012 at 04:40 PM


Nah, what's really depressing is this makes it obvious the team has no external solutions for 3B next year, and is grasping at straws to find an internal one that isn't completely horrible.

And Galvis would most definitely fall into the "horrible" category. He would quite likely be the worst-hitting regular in the NL if he took over as the everyday 2B or 3B next year.

And Galvis would most definitely fall into the "horrible" category. He would quite likely be the worst-hitting regular in the NL if he took over as the everyday 2B or 3B next year.

That all depends on how many starts Martinez winds up getting.

I'm all in favor of creativity, but playing Utley at 3rd base is about as ill-conceived an idea as playing Ryan Howard in centerfield. Utley can't even consistently make the throw from 2nd to 1st, let alone 3rd to 1st.

With all of these throws from the knees, I wonder if Kratz could play the occasional 3B in 2013.

Saving the bullpen for the playoffs.

Kendrick is probably pretty happy today.

Now, he gets to pitch in Atlanta on Friday. And he likes pitching in Atlanta.

Can anyone explain why Utley wants to play third? The internal solutions for second base are worse than for third base. Frandsen is already playing major league level third and hitting well. Galvis is not an offense threat. Cesar Hernandez is not a top prospect, at least offensively.

Wouldn't it be better to have Utley at first, Cesar at second, Rollins at short, Frandsen at third, and Howard in another city?

Or failing that, just keep Utley at second and put up with his declining skills?

BAP, I'll actually take issue with that sentiment. Though, Howard to CF would make ZERO sense, it actually makes MORE sense than Utley to 3B, since there's actually a few alternatives that we can plug into the void left by Howard...

I don't get it. It's not like we have a 2B waiting in the wings.

I couldn't agree with Chris in VT more - Galvis is NOT an option, unless you want another season where we're scrambling to end at .500.

Nah, what's really depressing is this makes it obvious the team has no external solutions for 3B next year, and is grasping at straws to find an internal one that isn't completely horrible.

And Galvis would most definitely fall into the "horrible" category. He would quite likely be the worst-hitting regular in the NL if he took over as the everyday 2B or 3B next year.

Posted by: Chris in VT

Yeah, that too. And I agree on Galvis. I love his defense but his hideous bat is going to far outweigh the joys of a nice rangey play in the hole.

ak, who the hell is going to want Howard's salary? And don't say Boston because they clearly showed what their business plan is now.

How did they concede the season "well over a month ago"?

You mean by getting rid of Pence and Victorino? But their winning percentage is better after that than before....

Cloyd's gonna wear #50. Did he need to obtain clout's permission first?

Joe D - Yeah, I should have used the sarcasm switch on that one.

The point is this: No team in baseball would take on Howard's salary. And I think that would still be true even if the Phillies ate 8-10 million per year of Howard's salary. Though with that salary, it may be more tempting to a few as long as they didn't have to give up any prospects in the deal.

I actually see Howard as a career Phillie. The only way that changes is if two teams exchange bad contracts.

To be clear...

We're worried about the offensive holes AND the solution is dumping Ryan Howard.

While I resigned myself to it probably 8 weeks ago, can someone let TBag know that the Phillies have given up on this season? The constant talk about the Wild Card still being a long shot possibility is wearing me out.

KAS - Not a serious suggestion to dump Ryan Howard. Even though nobody would take the salary, the Phillies don't seem to have a replacement anyway. It may get to the point that they semi-platoon him. That may actually prolong his useful career and put him in the best position to succeed.

And of course, it will be easier to evaluate his play next season, when he's further removed from the achilles injury.

Oh GTFO of here with the thought of Utley at 3B.

Did anybody see Dick Dubious discuss what he expects of Tyler Cloyd..( on DNL). DD really didnt know what to say.

He had the same enthusiasm that Ruin Tomorrow, Jr has for TC.. Whoever in this current blog said that the fact this is Raj's first time seeing this kid pitch all yr. tells you volumes--- right on!!

Either they don't have a clue, don't care to have a clue, or just want this experiment to over with already,

My impression :: the reason so many of these kids from the phila farm system, who come up to the ML and fail; then end up play turnpike yo-yo roulette with call-ups, is because these young pitchers don't get any or very little encouragement or guidance from these coaches. ( Yes of course some of these kids don't have ML stuff, not single one one of them are bad.).

Thoughts?


"not single" should read " NOT EVERY SINGLE"

Game chat is up.

There are some real pros in Philly.
I wouldn't dismiss Howard trades look at what LAD and Boston concocted. Havign said that Howard is not our number one player issue.
As distinguished from management issues which are trully the number one issues.
How could this team permit two players Brown and Worley) on the field with injuries?

It is mindboggling to think that another player (Utley) could talk RAJ into trying out for third. Especially now that there is an effective 3rd baseman there.

As for concern about Brown? He was hitting the ball and fielding just fine prior to his injury and now he is a concern? The way this management ying-yangs ball players around is incredibly unprofessional. I remember how Utley and Howard were delayed because the team had contracts with other players.
Ruf is breaking records but is too old. Let me see I bet some other professional stooge said the same about Kratz and Frandsen.
Spare me. Is it possible some guys take a little longer to develop? I sure wouldn't mind a few more years of Kratz and Frandsen on this level. Mind you I am not saying Ruf is going to come up and become an overnight sensation but as logn as he doesn't come up we will never know.

Philadelphia Eagles 2012 Season Tickets - No Waiting List!!! ---> http://tiny.cc/5pvtjw

Another game where the lineup needs Viagra.

Speaking of LAD and Boston: a guy on the radio referred to the 'blockbuster deal' as an 'enema'. LOL... Another guy referred to it as Boston's TARP :)

Okay, LindBomb. Big fly, here we go...

It's a miracle! I wonder if they get a c*ck tease baserunner in the bottom of the 9th?

One down. Two to go. WTF. Lindbomb is in the hole? I assume someone (minimart?) will hit for him :)

Kratz will reach, Cholly will PH Minimart, who will hit a 2-run walkoff. You heard it here first.

Or not. Night all...

With in your Early Retirement Resignation Letter you have to discuss the exact reason for your departure.

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