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Saturday, August 04, 2012

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"Chooch is already under-rewarded financially, and now the team will probably cause him long-term damage and then dump him after his contract is up. I really hope the Phillies don't become the Eagles, but they sometimes veer dangerously close.

Posted by: Scott"

So you want them to continue to overpay to keep aging players like they have been doing.

Hey, I think Del Bates is still playing in an Indpendent League somewhere.

The final months should basically serve as spring training if you ask me. A quest to see who can do what in the big league level as they seek a top 5 pick in next year's draft. I'll watch because I love the game. But I certainly won't be stopped from making other plans either.

Call up Tommy Joseph.

I don't recall stating that the Phillies should over-compensate Chooch. It would be nice if he were respectfully rewarded appropriately, however. He's deserving of that.

After Charlie runs Tommy Joseph into the ground, he'd probably end up needing Tommy Joseph surgery.

I never trust people with two first names.

If the Phillies don't want to repeat past mistakes, they let Ruiz walk when he's a FA, or if they have another bad year, trade him. Unless for some reason he wants to gradually move to a backup role with backup money. This is nothing against Ruiz, just reality. Why else would they trade for Joseph anyway.

Happened to glance at my Official 2012 Philadelphia Phillies Calendar. The previous 3 months (May, June, July) featured Victorino, Thome & Pence, respectively. The featured player for August? Cliff Lee.

Awwww, sh*t.

Scott - They will pick up his option and likely let him walk after next year if they think Joseph is ready to start in '14.

Cholly has treated Chooch like a rented mule though the last few years including his ridiculous usage of him this year & last year on his 'off-days.' Cholly had a perfectly good backup catcher in Kratz yet Chooch started nearly every game for almost a month straight. Kratz started on June 28th and didn't start again until July 22nd.

Over that stretch, the Phils played 23 G with Chooch appearing in every single one and starting 21. Until recently, Chooch was on a historical pace for games started in a season by a catcher who was 33.

Here are the number of (including postseason) that Chooch has started the last few years:

2007: 114 G, 103 GS (age 28)
2008: 124 G, 105 GS (age 29)
2009: 122 G, 115 GS (age 30)
2010: 127 G, 118 GS (age 31)
2011: 133 G, 119 GS (age 32)
2012: 90 G, 80 GS (age 33)

Those are really high workloads. What is surprising is that Chooch didn't blow a gasket sooner given that increasing and very heavy workload he has seen since '09.

Chooch stands right up there w/ the toughest athletes I've ever watched. The amount of punishment he takes is unbelievable, & yet he never seems unable to put forth maximum effort whenever he's on the field. Def. one of my favorite Phillies, ever.

"These are the times that try men's souls..."

Diagnosed with this weeks ago, why was he still playing on it?

Check out how the Trentonian announced the Blanton trade to its readers.*

Ouch. And people think Beerleaguer is harsh.


*Pic not mine. Linked from Twitter.

I'm starting to believe the world really is going to end this December. This Phillies season is the prelude.

If you want to defend Cholly, they did go deep into the postseason in '09 and that contributed 15 GS to Chooch's workload.

In 2010, they were neck and neck with the Braves and again had a deep postseason run with 10 GS in the postseason for Chooch.

Wasn't doesn't make sense though is how Cholly has used an aging Chooch the last 2 years. Played a lot down the stretch lat year when the Phils had a huge lead in the 2nd half. It was baffling why Cholly was often PH in the 2nd half on his off-days and then staying in to catch at least 2-3 IP late.

Cholly did the same thing again this season and increased Chooch's workload to almost a ridiculous pace. Understand that Schneider was out (no loss) and that Chooch has been there best hitter but Cholly really rode him really hard in late June/early July.

One silver lining in this is that now Cholly can ride Chooch into the ground at a historical pace the rest of the season needlessly. Gets some rest and come back rejuvenated next year hopefully.

If Halladay is also under-performing, I hope they basically him down for the year too. One of the dumber things you can do is throwing good money/resources into sinking ship.

Corey Seidman: Halladay was 3-0 with a 1.17 ERA after three starts. Since then (April 17), he's 1-6 with a 5.43 ERA. Seems unfathomable.

"Cholly has treated Chooch like a rented mule though the last few years including his ridiculous usage of him this year & last year on his 'off-days.' Cholly had a perfectly good backup catcher in Kratz yet Chooch started nearly every game for almost a month straight. Kratz started on June 28th and didn't start again until July 22nd."

Well, the reason that Ruiz was overused in that period is because of his bat. Pence was the only other RH threat and we all know that story.

With Schneider back, how many starts will Kratz get vs. righties? Any?

Prediction: The Phillies will spend the off-season signing nothing but LH batters, & supposed switch hitters who are awful batting RH.

Chooch stated that he had searing pain at times in his foot at times over a week ago yet has started a 4 games in the interim.

Love to know more about what he said to Sheridan & why it took this long to have an MRI (at least a week) on his foot.

It hasn't been a banner season for Sheridan and the medical staff.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9763

2009 Dick Martin Award

"This year, Scott Sheridan's Phillies win the Dick Martin Award after a second straight World Series appearance. The health of the team and, just as important, the management of the injuries they did have helped the Phillies get to baseball's pinnacle in both seasons. Facing challenges like their star player having an untested surgery, keeping a struggling pitcher healthy enough to stay on the mound, monitoring the workload of their young ace, and integrating new players with their own injury histories, the Phillies kept their team on the field and productive throughout the 2009 season.

Of course, this isn't a fluke. The Phillies three-year and five-year averages for both days and dollars lost to the DL are among the many reasons this team is taking home the trophy this season. In just the third year after taking over from long-time trainer Jeff Cooper, Sheridan's staff is a relatively new one, but it's already considered one of the best in the business. Sheridan was able to hold on to the rehab successes that Cooper's reputation was built on while focusing on prevention and injury management."

Curious to see what these numbers will look like at the end of this year including trailing 3 and 5 year average figures for the Phils. To get a major accurate picture, you could control for age too.

Another example of Charlie Manuel running his guys too hard. You can have a 24 year old play everyday not a 33 year old catcher. He needs to be replaced. This is not the 1970's when players were 160 pounds and have greenies to wake them up and keep them fresh.

Someone brought that up about Sheridan on the good phight and got ridiculed.

They really have been off it seems on injuries and allowing players to play through "non" injuries.

Scott - I had not seen that article on Chooch before. Thank you.

Stinks that his injury will prevent his personal stats from shining as brightly as they should this year.

I'm very happy he got to play in the All-Star game. He's worked hard and has been an important force on this team - playing with grit & heart & brain.

Shoulda claimed Kurt Suzuki on waivers.

Yes, Suzuki, because we're down a Hawaiian. Suzuki's offensive game has fallen off a cliff.

Corn - MLB has finally started to come around on this topic the last few years. Company I worked for bid and lost on building the medical claims database that all trainers/front office have access to since the '10 season. Even then it is just claims data yet which has pretty limited value especially the US is still using ICD-9 diagnosis and procedure codes.

MLB also have tried to consolidate claims fees from other sources including Modern Medical who won their pharmacy claims business after '11 season by MLB and for all minor league clubs.

Would love to hear Stan Conte speak because he has been the guy spearheading this at the MLB level. He was the guy who got them to issue the RFP for the consolidated medical claims data warehouse and query tool.

Cante also get them to form a research committee in '11 of team doctors and athletic trainers to further look into injury issues.

From Stark's column on June 1st on ESPN:

"Now you would think the news that teams are wasting almost a half-billion dollars a year on guys who aren't playing would be causing baseball to launch an intensive, industry-wide effort to address this issue. You're kidding, right?

Baseball has formed a research committee, made up of team doctors and athletic trainers. It also has retained Dr. Bert Mandelbaum, the team physician for USA Soccer, as director of medical research. So at least it has finally acknowledged there is a problem.

But mostly, MLB has left it up to individual teams to deal with this stuff on their own. And many of them are relying, to a great extent, on guesswork -- because guessing always seems to be cheaper than the kind of exhaustive studies that are really required.

"What's happening in baseball, basically, is that we're hoping we get lucky [with injuries]," [Dodgers senior director of medical services Stan] Conte says. "And that, to me, is a bad way to go. … I have no problem with teams taking risks if they understand the risks they're taking. But I'm not sure they do."

Some of the smarter teams -- teams looking to quantify anything and everything -- are doing their own risk/reward studies. But it's hard not to wonder: Why isn't Major League Baseball doing those studies? Wouldn't it be worth the price tag?

"How much are we spending on research in baseball? I don't know," Conte says. "But I know we're losing $500 million a year. So we need to spend significant money and do extensive research, not do isolated studies."

And if they ever do those studies, think of all the questions that need answering:

How many of these injuries are due to strength and conditioning training that isn't suitable for players at a certain position, or baseball players in general?

How many are due to ridiculous scheduling, insane travel and sleep deprivation?

How many are due to how managers over-use or under-use their players?

How many are a result of coaching that results in "bad mechanics?" And while they're looking into that one, shouldn't somebody try to define what "bad mechanics" really are in the first place?"

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings120601/mlb-season-altering-injuries-just-keep-coming

How many posts have there been suggesting that Chooch be shut down for some time to heal?
Playing through nagging pain is different than not getting a tear diagnosed for several weeks.
Come on Phils. Baseball IQ means the medical staff as well as the players.

No thanks on Suzuki, he's terrible.

MG- Great post@2:45

You can't hold my jock, Kratz. You pack your sh@t. It's me and my man Joseph for here on out.

Why the need for another catcher? Just play Schneider and Kratz.

I'm sure I could play if you need someone.

Mike -- thanks for the offer, but no worries. Darren Daulton built a time machine back in 1992 or 1993, I don't recall which, and should be arriving any day now in preparation for Dec 2012 festivities.

CHOOCH

CHOOCH!!!

Sorry to hear about Chooch. Hope it all heals well, we will need him next year. The one silver lining is that we might get to see Mini-Mart behind the plate at last.

Tonight's lineup:
Rollins 6
Frandsen 5
Utley 4
Howard 3
Mayberry 8
Brown 7
Kratz 2
Schierholtz 9
Halladay 1

A regular murderer's row. Who could conceive of an August 4 lineup with Frandsen batting 2d back in April?

I would like Chase or Howard get some time behind the plate, just to hasten the retirement process.

Heartbreaking news about Ruiz.

I fully expected tonight's lineup to include Howard in CF, Schneider at 3B, Halladay catching & Martinez on the mound.

The actual lineup is rather a large disappointment in comparison.

Utley howard mayberry 3,4,5. I'm guessing a single for utley and golden sombrero's for the rest of them?

I knew they'd rue the day they traded Tuffy Goosewich amirite?

:crickets:

Chooch hasn't been "really overloaded". He's been the guy handling the staff, etc. He's a pro and plenty of catchers have been used at least as much as him in the regular season.

Was hitting in 8th slot for much of his career. Also happened to be having a career year and the Phils big guns were out so saying he should have been played less when he has played in 95 games is a huge stretch. What you wanted to watch Brian Schneider more this year of all years? Now chooch should have been babied because he's hurt at a time we least need him?

Playing him when he was hurt is something to have a problem with but wanting him to be babied is ridiculous. Look at the Molinas, Pudges, Posadas games and plate appearances in their careers, it's not out of line.

Speaking of cricket, has Rube considered trolling the grounds at Merion Cricket Club in search of someone, anyone, who can handle a bat better than our versatile Mini-Mart?

If you want evidence of baseball asking for its players to get injured, just take a look at example number 1: Dr. Mike Marshall.

Pitched 206 innings in one season in the early seventies. Why is that important? Because he pitches 206 innings as a reliever.

He is also a kinesiologist, who has studied the mechanics of pitching intensively. And he has come up with a half dozen or so things in a pitcher's motion that can be changed to avoid the most common pitching injuries. So, what has baseball done? They effectively blackball anyone who uses his techniques.

Were I a Mathieson or similar pitcher who had ability but could never stay healthy, I'd have been to see Marshall on the first available flight. Never happened.

And something else flying under the radar. Rollins is playing every stinking game. And every inning of every stinking game. He's booted balls the last two nights. His batting average is sinking like a rock. Two homers the other night may be masking the fact that he's getting old and is playing a ton of innings on a team that is going nowhere. I hate to say he needs a rest because we all know who the backup is now. But he needs a rest if any player ever did.

They knew Chooch was hurting yet they traded Goosewurst anyway.

It's unconscienable.

re:

He is also a kinesiologist, who has studied the mechanics of pitching intensively. And he has come up with a half dozen or so things in a pitcher's motion that can be changed to avoid the most common pitching injuries. So, what has baseball done? They effectively blackball anyone who uses his techniques.

Interesting post for sure. This opens up a can of worms but how does that work in the scheme overall?

What about pitchers whose success is dependent their throwing motion outside a doctor's recommendation? You think a pitcher like Lincecum whose success depends on his mechanics would rather not be in the league? Or do you think he's willing to risk blowing out his arm?

Seems to me for competitive balance also you'd have to legislate rules saying a pitcher can only use this type of motion the doc is recommending.

As far as Mathieson lost career goes, where do you draw the line at whose at fault? Did someone hold a gun to his head? When and who was responsible for his throwing motion?

akmsith: Excellent post re: Marshall. Most folks don't know about this.

Clout:

Not really. 60 Minutes does a piece on Dr. Mike Marshall like every three years. I think plenty of people *who care about baseball* know all about Mike Marshall.

At least he made the all star team and got some credit there, even if they crapped all over his AB with the Jeter interview.

Get well soon Chooch!

Thats Charlie. He will ride his favorites into the ground. Slump or not.

"Thats Charlie. He will ride his favorites into the ground. Slump or not."

Yeah,but COrn - then everyone would have been bitching and moaning as to why Chooch wasn't in the lineup.

------------------

Also... clout - Tuffy Gosewich being moved is no big deal with Kratz, Schneider, Valle and Joseph all on the depth chart.

Chooch was on pace to start over 130 games this year until he missed time this past week. Pudge never started that many games in his 30s. Ditto Fisk. It wasn't like there some starts either as the DH either.

Cholly was leaning on Chooch very hard especially on late June/early June where Chooch appeared & caught in every game over a 3 week stretch. You wouldnt see many managers ever do that.

I hear ya, MG but... again.... his bat was pretty much carrying this offense at the time.

Chuck, clout was most assuredly joking about Tuffy.

but at least Tuffy was a quarter finalist in Moniker Madness to determine the best name in the Minors.

http://www.milb.com/milb/fans/moniker_madness/y2012/index.jsp

Think it has been said before but the players made Cholly a good manager. He shouldn't have lost all that wait.No gut to make good moves anymore.

8 whole pitches. Good stuff.

And Chooch looks so damn sad it's making me depressed.

Feels like a spring training game. Can't wait to watch Dom hit against a lefty. Justin Upton would look good in rf next year.

Kratz and Dom are the only 2 reasons I am still watching these games.

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