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Tuesday, August 28, 2012


EastFallowfield: How dare you! 45th all time on the Phils win list isn't enough for you!?!?

First homer against a lefty in 8 years??

I was curious if anyone had an answer on whether Reading is considered a hitter's park. When I was a kid, I recall Reading Municipal still had the flag pole inside the center field fence, like hte old parks. Not sure if they changed the dimensions since then.


"So long as Michael Martinez continues to not only occupy a roster slot, but receive regular playing time..."

GTown, so long as mini-mart is occupying a roster spot, it's an indictment of the entire Phillies player evaluation system. Period.

Posted by: awh | Tuesday, August 28, 2012 at 04:42 PM

awh : Agree 100% ; also: MM must have some pictures

Just read that Rollins will host the Ugandan little league team tonight at CBP. I like that. Nice work spreading the game.

Reading is now considered a hitter's park.

About the last thread and praising Luzinski's left field play. He was put in left because he was the worst first baseman I've ever seen. Hands of stone. And he had one stretch, sort of. He stretched for throws in the same direction every time, no matter where the throw was coming from.

He was always a poor left fielder. He caught what he could get to for the most part, but that sure was not a lot. Luckily he had pop in his bat. Because he was the definition of a DH even when he was younger and thinner. Of course, in his later DH playing days, he seemed too fat and slow to even DH.

Also, isn't it wonderful to have a third baseman now that when he hits a ground ball, he runs to first without a piano on his back? For Poly to beat out a grounder, there would have to be an earthquake that swallowed up the fielders while it propelled him to the bag.

I actually found myself reasonably impressed by the fact that KK is the 45th winningest pitcher in franchise history -- until I looked at the actual list. The guys ahead of him include such superstars as Larry Christenson (16th), Dick Ruthven (17th), Brett Myers (24th), Terry Mulholland (32nd), Kevin Gross (33rd) and Shane Rawley (34th),

The Phillies are the oldest, continuous, one-name, one-city franchise in professional sports history.

And Kyle Kendrick is the 45th winningest pitcher of that franchise!


(Still accepting applications.)

Hey now, Terry Mullholland had one great skill:

There was something amazing about Terry Mulholland, though ... You could not run against him.

As a rookie in 1986, Mulholland gave up six stolen bases in just 55 innings. Nothing special there. In his next four seasons, as he established himself as a starter with the Phillies, Mulholland became exceptionally difficult to run on. But not impossible.

That happened in 1992.

In 1992, Mulholland pitched 229 innings. He gave up two steals. Five guys were caught trying to steal. And Mulholland picked off 15 more.

He would never rack up anything like 15 pickoffs in another season, presumably because the baserunners realized that taking more than a step or two off the base was likely to result in a sudden and embarrassing fate.

That was 1992. From 1993 through the end of his career in 2006, Mulholland pitched 1,718 innings. Which is roughly the equivalent of eight full seasons for a starting pitcher. Over that span, Mulholland gave up 12 stolen bases. Thirty-one runners were caught trying, and Mulholland picked off 27 more.

It is astonishing how consistently wrong aksmith is. That really takes focus.

As several other posters on the last thread noted, Luzinski was NOT a bad left fielder when he first came up. The reason he moved to LF is that the Phillies had a guy who hit 35 HRs playing 1B, Deron Johnson.

Johnson got hurt midseason the next year, but by then Bull was playing well enough in LF that they left him there.

Obviously as he aged he slowed down and his fielding got worse. One poster noted a knee injury that sapped him.

But when he was playing LF every day at ages 21 and 22 (and hitting 4 or 5 triples a year) he was a league average fielder. The statement "he was always a poor fielder" is false to anyone who followed the team or knows anything about Phillies baseball.

In 1992, Mulholland led the league in complete games and yet was a below average pitcher, as judged by ERA+ (92). That's probably a rare combo.

Anyway, his windup was fun to imitate, and his pick-off move was seriously top-notch.

Usually Vance waits until the 5th inning to implode.

Kratz is the man. A more stubborn ump & the Phils could've robbed one.

There was no chance the umps would've let that go at the plate. Doesn't matter how stubborn the ump at home was.

yhay Amaro, Dubee and Manuel are so smart//

There's nothing wrong with pitching Worley gig.keep pitching him til his arm falls off.

I know - I feel better, with Worley on the bump and that we don't have to start the clock and bring up Cloyd..

Now that would be a mistake ...

Something tells me that, by 6 weeks into 2013, Vance Worley is going to be the new Kyle Kendrick: the guy who took everyone by surprise with a big rookie year, who proves unable to replicate that success over the next couple years, and whom 75% of Beerleaguer is looking to replace.

TTI: Clearly you weren't watching Jerry Meals blow that call at Home in the Pirates/Braves game last season.

Rollins has actually been having good ABs lately.

I don't have the work ethic to look up the numbers, but I thought Vance was doing pretty well up until his injury? He wasn't as good as last year with a sub 3 ERA but he wasn't getting tagged like has been the last 2 months.

GTown: Not even close to the same thing. That was a play at the plate that was umpire's discretion.

This was a play where the home plate ump was obscured and every other ump could see the ball was clearly dropped.

BAP: They showed Rollins numbers on this homestand and they were excellent.

To Vance's credit, he did limit the damage in that first inning and got out of it with only 9 pitches thrown. Interesting to see how he responds in the second.

TTI: And you've never seen a game where the plate ump refused to consult w/ the other umps, no matter who was in the best position to see the play? You give the idiots in blue too much credit.

Good ABs by Ultey and Rollins. Let's go Big Piece.

This is going to be a shame.

You're welcome.



A rope to center. Wow!

Jack? You there, Jack?

GTown: Normally the umps are dopes. On that play there is no chance they would've let that slide. Zero percent chance.

Stupid Albatross

Well, there's always that.

Yep, Phils didn't miss this guy the first half of the season one bit.

That homerun was beautiful.

Must resist urge to make lunchmeat joke.

I was wrong. About everything. Ryan Howard has now justified the contract with that one swing in a late August game when we're 6 games under .500.

Yep, Phils didn't miss this guy the first half of the season one bit.

The syme cannot be said of the gymes myssed by Laynce Nyx.

Iceman: Good point. When Howard and Utley first returned, numerous posters here mocked the notion that the team would improve with them back.

Those cowardly posters are now silent or, like Jack, pretending they said no such thing.

Strike first, strike hard! Well done Howard.

Geez, I step out for 5 minutes and the Phillies' offense actually comes to life.

Clout: Huh? When did I ever say the team wouldn't be better with Utley and Howard?

I said I wasn't sure the return of Utley and Howard would make the team a title contender, this year or next. And obviously I've always felt the Howard contract was and is a terrible, terrible deal (as does virtually everyone in the world except a few homers on BL). But that's not the same thing as saying those two players wouldn't improve the team.

When you're replacing Michael Martinez/Pete Orr/Freddy Galvis and Ty Wigginton, improvement isn't hard.

The Phils are a whopping 3 games over .500 since both Howard and Utley have been back.

Grand Slam! Always good to have the big man in the middle of the lineup. Not having anything approaching a Ryan Howard in the middle of the lineup hurt them big time in the first half of the season.

If your only gripe is with the contract and not the player, get over it. The contract was signed years ago and isn't going anywhere. It won't be renegotiated or voided by Selig. Howard's contract shouldn't taint everything he does on the field. I could see it coming up when it's time to discuss trades or potential free agent signings but it boggles my mind when people can't get over it and root for the player on the field and admit when he does well.
He's a good player. He drives in runs. He does things to help the team win. The team is much better with him in the lineup. He's an exciting player. But he'll make blah blah blah dollars over the next however many years.

"Not having anything approaching a Ryan Howard in the middle of the lineup hurt them big time in the first half of the season."

Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee not performing up to expectations (either because of injury or ineffectiveness), hurt the team much more in the first half of the season.

Gobaystars: I root for Howard just like I root for everyone who wears a Phillies uniform.

My problem is mostly with the contract, but it's not as if this is like Joey Votto or Albert Pujols who has a huge contract. We're talking about a .260 hitter who has a .348 OBP since 2008 and whose slugging percentage and ISO have strongly declined over the past 4 seasons. Oh, and he can't run, can't throw, and is just ok as a fielder.

Yeah, he hits home runs, and I love it when he does. I do. But it's not like he's a great player, regardless of the contract. He's a nice power hitter, who struggles at almost everything else. That has some value, of course, but the value isn't close to what the team is paying him, and every person on here knows that.

Ohh, and not having anyone to pitch in the 8th inning, REALLY hurt the team in the first half of the season.

Howard and Utley have been back since early July. That's almost 2 full months. The team is basically a .500 team with them in the middle of the lineup.

Why has the team played better and won more lately? The starting pitching has solidified (Kendrick, Lee and Halladay have been much better lately) and the bullpen has settled down and pitched better.

Not saying the offense isn't better with Utley and Howard in there. Just saying there are other parts of the team that are probably more important.

Howard has been about what I expected since he came back and honestly a bit better at the plate. He's my favorite Phils player so I always root for him but understand why he is a lightning rod for criticism even if he didn't have his contract.

denny - dead on and it will be the same next year. Starting pitching will either carry this team to the postseason or sink them because they aren't going to really excel in other areas.

Halladay not being Halladay this year was the biggest injury with Utley a close 2nd.

They're giving Rollins a ton of chances here. Make the Mets pay.

Murphy. He's either making a brilliant play, or an egregious error. No position is safe.

Pops up to all fields.

To complete Jack's sentence: "and that's why you should hate him."

Rollins pops it up and Wright drops it. He pops it up again & Murphy drops it. Right on call, he pops up a third time. It's actually pretty impressive.

Yeah, on the list of crucial injuries, Halladay and Utley significantly outweigh Howard.

Howard has come back OK, but it's worth noting that Utley has been better in every way, including power.

Clout: What do you disagree with in what I said?

Speaking of Saint Pujols and Saint Votto, the are signed until they are 41 and 40!! Tell me those aren't awful deals. Kind of looks more like the market price for a slugger is a ton of money over more years than they'll be productive. hmm
But yeah, keep using Howard gland slams as chances to dwell on his contract.

I wish I could muster up the rage for Howard's contract that Jack has had boiling inside him for years now, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I just don't care. I'm glad he's on the team.

"Not saying the offense isn't better with Utley and Howard in there. Just saying there are other parts of the team that are probably more important."

How about everything they were missing was important? Does that work for you?

They have one guy in the lineup that can completely change the game with one swing of the bat. They had been replacing him with Ty Wigginton and John Mayberry, Jr. That is an enormous drop-off and hurt the team considerably.

But the fact is that there were absolutely people that said Howard/Utley/Halladay coming back wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Which was, of course, stupid.

Why does Wright always look like he's going to burst into tears?

Kratz putting on a defensive clinic tonight.

gobay: Those will eventually be awful contracts too. Most mega-contracts eventually become awful. The difference is that Howard's contract was awful from the moment it was signed. Votto & Pujols are probably the 2 best everyday players in baseball. Howard might not even be in the top 50 -- and this is the very first year of his contract.

Kratz looking a bit like Bryzgalov tonight.

Iceman: What people forget is that Jack attacked Howard regularly before he ever signed the contract. The contract only gave him more ammo. Go back and look at Jack's comments on Howard in '07 and '08. he just doesn't like the guy.

Didnt quite make it to the plate there.

The Phils are a whopping 3 games over .500 since both Howard and Utley have been back.

That's ... extremely disappointing, actually.

Kratz looks disinterested behind the plate tonight.

Dropped Brown's throw which was a sure out.
2 passed balls.

And why on earth is Mayberry batting ahead of Brown against a RH starter??

Duda's name is bad enough. The fact that I have to listen to Tmac pronounce it “Doo-dah" all night makes it that much more annoying.

clout- yeah, a few times going through the archives I came across some things he said pre-contract, including that we should be open to trading him after the '07 season. Pretty incredible. Maybe it was a different Jack?

Anyone who hasn't gone through the archives, by the way, if you have to kill some time, I highly recommend it. Like digging through a time capsule.

Why exactly is it relevant that Jack wasn't all that keen on Howard before the contract? If he wasn't that keen on Howard before the contract, then it would make pretty good sense that he is even less keen on him after the contract.

Ethan Martin's night: 3.2 IP., 6 earned runs, 4 walks.

It's his 2nd terrible outing in a row and the 2nd outing in a row in which he has had no control at all. That's somewhat dismaying, considering that lack of control has been the very problem which has plagued him from Day 1.

dennyb: I actually think after the ASB is a fairer date to judge the team post-Howard/Utley because that's also when Halladay came back (which was even more important). Howard also has had some time to get his legs under him after his joke of a rehab stint.

24-17 (.585) post-ASB vs. 37-50 (.425) pre-ASB.

Pretty significant difference. I would also argue that their performance against the Nats and Reds during this span speaks for itself: at the very least, they are playing equal to the best teams in the league. That was unequivocally not the case when these guys were out.

Worley pitching like crap again tonight. Happy to get 6 IP and 3 runs allowed fri.

Dammit, Vance.


2nd career home run for that guy.

Can Worley just stop pitching?

As soon as I said that he hangs a 2-seam meatball that was drilled out.

I was looking through the archives a bit yesterday, specifically the last weekend of 07. The most refreshing part was how thankful everyone was to have the last Sunday matter. There was zero sense of entitlement. We'd already had an amazing season no matter how that Sunday played out. Also, the game threads were about the games. Lots more shorter posts along the lines of "Yeah Jroll! Huge hit there. We really needed that run." "Big out by Myers." "MVP" etc. Not a ton of rants about non game issues during a game thread. I'm guilty too.

Back to the action:
Awful pitch by Vanimal. Let the Mets back into it. Time to settle down and fight through a few innings.

I wonder if Schwimmer is tweeting at Vance now telling him to join him in the "I'm injured!!" fight.

Obviously an injured Worley is better than giving Cloyd a shot.


At this point, per the suggestions on the day's previous threads, it might be prudent to shut Vance down and play spin-the-roulette-wheel on AAA and AA pitchers.

In any case, if the objective of this end-of-season is to audition bullpen arms, there will be plenty of chances tonight.

Iceman: I know what you're saying, but don't you also have to acknowledge that they traded Pence and Victorino right after the ASB? And surely you don't think that's actually made the team *better*, do you? So how do you account for that?

BAP- it's relevant because he's using the contract as a crutch for ripping on him now, acting like it's not a larger issue of just disliking him, period.

Not sure what his problem was with Howard in 2007. He had just hit 105 HRs in 2 seasons and put up OPS's of 1.084 and .976 respectively. He was basically a God at that point, but Jack didn't think much of him.

I mean, it's no big deal if you don't like a player. I didn't like Pence. Don't like Papelbon. Don't like Mayberry. But just come out and say it and stop harping on the contract. It's bad. Let's move on.

"And why on earth is Mayberry batting ahead of Brown against a RH starter??"

To make it a little tougher on the opposing manager late in a game?

Plus, Mayberry has been putting up good AB's and swinging well in the past 2 weeks anyway.

Although, he still hasn't drawn a walk from a LH pitcher yet, has he? That is an astounding statistic, this late in the season. He's got 18 walks on the year, all against RHP.

Pretty apparent from the comments that Amaro had made regarding Cloyd is that he isn't going to be called up. Doesn't sound like he thinks much of him.

Swedish chef would be an upgrade over Sarge in the booth. Even Beaker would be.

Phillies TV broadcasts are so terrible. It's like they have all this stuff they want to shoe horn in (cooking segments, dumb jokes, shots of fans in silly outfits, adverts and more adverts) and they end up ignoring long stretches of the game and looking like an amateurish mess. This is a team that has won the last 5 NL East titles. They don't need this BS no matter how bad they've been this year.

bad call, wally.

or an ok call.

That is a horse sh*t call.

Actually, I guess it was right.

Iceman: I thought Howard was fantastic in 2006 and 2007.

What worried me was how significantly he declined between then and mid-2010. Amaro, apparently, didn't see that decline and rewarded him with the $125 million deal.

iceman is correct again. I fully admit that I despise Papelbon. My opinion on him should not be taken seriously. My opinion of Pap is worthless because I am so biased against him. Jack is the same concerning Howard but he argues it vehemently with zero self awareness.


I almost wonder if Cloyd would even get the call now, if a starter went down to injury?

Cloyd simply cannot do anything more then what he's done this year. You almost cannot pitch any better or any more consistently then he has. If Ruben and company still aren't convinced, they never will be.

I wonder if Pettibone is actually the next in line, in Rube's mind?

2-0 mistake change up that JRoll often lined to the OF in the past. Even when they get mistakes ahead in the count they don't punish the opposing team nearly as much they used to.

gobay, I agree about the broadcasts. The amount of trivia and plain old junk is insulting to not only the fans, but also to the game itself. It is much worse this year, highlighted by Murph-in-the-stands!! and Phanatic Hats!! and Trivia!!

Strasburg having a very Worleyesque game tonight.

Iceman: Before the contract, I think Jack's point was simply that Howard is nowhere near as good as his die-hard fans make him out to be. After the contract, his point is that Howard is nowhere near good enough to justify his contract. They're kind of the same point -- except that the contract only brings the issue into sharper focus.


Report from Lehigh - Cloyd shaking hands and left dugout a few minutes ago.

I do wish that Howard could DH though. Hes been brutal defensively this year.

Howard has been pretty sh!tty defensively so far this year.

Great, Cholly is going to let Worley load the bases before pulling him.

So can Cloyd speed down to Philly in time for the 7th?

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