Game chat: Only one CY candidate on bump tonight

And he doesn't pitch for the Phillies.

More than one Phillies' national award recipient has benefited from playing on a winning team over the years, which is one of the big reasons why Cole Hamels should not be in the Cy Young conversation alongside tonight's counterpart Johnny Cueto and a host of suitable contenders, particularly those pitching for our National League East oppressors (Stephen Strasburg, Jordan Zimmerman, Gio Gonzalez). At 57-67, it's time for some humility, and even though Hamels has been rock solid this season and very strong lately, the Phillies are a non-factor and it's time to recognize that Washington, Cincinnati, San Francisco and Los Angeles are performing at a higher level and are anchored by more deserving pitchers. Statistically, Hamels rates as the 12th best pitcher in the National League, according to Fangraphs.com WAR. He's tied for third, behind Cueto and Zimmerman, in the Baseball-Reference WAR metric. 

So the numbers say he's not the guy anyway. Unless Hamels runs the table, voters need to recognize that Hamels and the Phillies need to stand aside when the hardware is awarded after the season.

Transaction: Michael Schwimer was optioned to make room for Jeremy Horst, who's back from paternity leave. Schwimer has been up with the club for almost three-straight months, in addition to his first call-up in late April-early May. All told, he's pitched 34 1-3 inning with a 4.46 ERA and 36/16 K/BB. Not great, but he's shown flashes. He'll likely return when rosters expand.

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Comments

[GTown_Dave]

Gelb: Cole Hamels is 8-0 with a 1.26 ERA in 10 career starts against Reds. It's lowest ERA against CIN for any pitcher (min 50 IP) since 1950.

Which will only serve to make tonight's impending loss all the more disappointing. Failure of the Offense? Defense? Bullpen? Manager? All of the Above? I just can't wait to find out!

[Willard Preacher]

GTown, truer words. Truer words...

[Willard Preacher]

Cole is actually -115 tonight. I thought there'd be some better value there. Cueto -105.

[clout]

"Can't miss" prospect Anthony Gose at .192/.267/.256.

Not too alarming given the SSS (78 AB).

Alarming: 34 Ks.

[Mini Mart]

We're going to win this, if I have to go 5-5 with 3 extra base hits, and 9 RBI! Yeah baby!

[Willard Scott]

was this monsoon predicted?

[GTown_Dave]

This is the oddest little rain cell. Practically right over the ballpark, & nowhere else.

[docjoe]

Glad Aumont kept up. Have we seen enough of Schwimer to know what he is? I think we have. Can't wait to see Aumont get a chance. All Phils fans need something to look forward to at this point

[Chesty Morgan]

It seems to be the rain cloud that has hung over the Phillies all season has decided to have a little fun with Cole.

[GTown_Dave]

Seriously. Check it out. The + symbol is the approx. location of CBP.

[Conway Twitty]

They probably asked Sandburg who he wanted to help LV make the playoffs, and he turned down Bastardo.

[bay_area_phan]

This is going to be one of those games that is over before the second inning.

[can_of_corn]

Was hoping for a calm night without worrying about the bullpen. At this rate we should be looking for Aumont by the 5th.

[Cyclic]

Frandsen, wth.

Easy play at the plate there. More dumb defense. Did someone steal our Tom Emanski videos?

[ChollyM]

We can win this, I know we can! I don't care if I have to call for JRoll to bunt every f*cking time he comes up, the lazy bastid!

[SLO Phan]

Gold Glove Mini-Mart!

[GTown_Dave]

I'm able to admit it: that was a really nice play by Chico DeBarge.

[can_of_corn]

Super-Mart!

[wes covington's ghost]

I'm pretty sure JLoaf doesn't make that play.

[bay_area_phan]

Martinez just bought himself another full season on the active roster.

[GTown_Dave]

L.A. isn't convinced the crew chief is aware of the rain. I'm not certain I disagree.

[bay_area_phan]

I am convinced that, by season's end, Juan Pierre's batting average will be right around the .275-.280 mark that everyone predicted for him.

[can_of_corn]

That is a really weird rainstorm. The forecast stil
says 0% chance of rain. Outside of Broad Street the clouds are puffy and the skies blue. Definitely a symbol for this season.

[GTown_Dave]

After 1 Inning of Play:

Hamels - 34 Pitches

Cueto - 11 Pitches

Sounds about right.

[Cyclic]

Shouldn't Utley be able to beat the shift?

[GTown_Dave]

Continuing to play in this rain is bullsh*t.

[Cyclic]

Well hit ball by Brown. I like that.

[Fatalotti]

Solid stroke by Brown. Just in an unfortunate spot.

[Fatalotti]

Haha, Kratz has a .431 ISO. Raise your hand if you think he'll sustain that??

[Cyclic]

Here comes Big Time Martinez

[bay_area_phan]

Fat: I have my hand raised.

[norbertods]

So would we say that this has been Dom's most successful stint in the major's yet?

[Jack]

Clout: I like Gose as a prospect, though you obviously know no one has ever referred to him as "can't miss."

But the Jays definitely called him up before he was ready. With his swing and miss issues, he's the kind of guy who really could've used a full year at AAA to get used to advanced breaking stuff.

[can_of_corn]

I always wonder why MiniMart grins during his at bats.

[SLO Phan]

What a f&&kin' black hole in the 8 spot. So angry. No championship-caliber team has a Mini-Mart on its roster.

[Cyclic]

AAA roster*

[Sil Campusano]

Mini Mart actually has a good at bat... but then, of course, does what we all knew he would anyway.

[wes covington's ghost]

SLO- You're right. That's why the Phillies have him.

[bay_area_phan]

I suppose the hitter has had a decent AB when he forces the pitcher to throw 9 pitches. But when you see that many pitches, it's supposed to end with a hit -- as it did when Nix saw the same number of pitches.

[GTown_Dave]

Not a chance Martinez fails to make the roster so long as Charlie is around. He sees talent where everyone else sees reality.

[bay_area_phan]

"I always wonder why MiniMart grins during his at bats."

The Phillies are paying Martinez $486,000 this year to be the single worst player in the major leagues. He's grinning for the same reason that a bank robber grins as he drives away from the crime scene with a bag full of cash.

[MG]

can of corn - Maybe I am just irrational but I swear it is because he is cocky for some unfathomable reason.

[Fatalotti]

You truly get an appreciation of Polly's arm over the last couple years while watching guys like Frandsen. He's been decent at 3rd in his stint, but with Polly, that throw would have been right at Howard's chest. In fact, even with Feliz, it would have right to Howard's chest. I've become spoiled by 3rd baseman with great arms.

[MG]

Polanco has a strong arm at 3B? Since when? He's not bad but it isn't a strength of his either even if he is accurate on his throws.

[bay_area_phan]

I wouldn't call Polanco's arm great. He is accurate but his arm strength is no better than average. Feliz had a great, and incredibly accurate, arm. Polanco is the better overall defensive player though.

[Fatalotti]

MG, I never got the impression that Polanco had trouble making any throws. He had an incredibly accurate arm, and I don't remember him having issues with arm strength. Maybe this year, but not the last couple years.

[J. Weitzel]

Interesting piece on Phils, Schwimer at odds over injury:

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/phillies-talk/Schwimer-hurt-Pitcher-team-have-differin?blockID=761989&feedID=693

[The Hook]

Cloyd, Martin and biddle all pitching tonight.

[Jr.]

Asche #10
Cloyd 4 innings,no hits
Mini grins because he is still at bat without making an out.

[MG]

Frandsen actually has a below average/average arm from what I have seen at 3B too. Doesn't have great range either. Basically average or maybe slightly better.

[MG]

Another injury controversy/issue with this team? Phils should reevaluate their entire medical approach and team this offseason. Way too much 2nd guessing of how they have handled injuries the past year or so. Not only been one or two cases.

[bay_area_phan]

For whatever reason, I only just noticed this stat this morning:

Michael Bourn leads the NL with 34 steals. In second place, with 31, is Juan Pierre. Bourn has 225 more PAs than Pierre.

[Cyclic]

Another brilliant move my Samuel

[GTown_Dave]

The Phillies have to lead the league in runners thrown out at home, right?

[Fatalotti]

Great throw by Stubbs.

[bay_area_phan]

I was screaming from the top of my lungs, "Stop!" How Samuel could have sent him there, I have no idea.

[Fatalotti]

BAP, is Stubbs generally regarding as having a good arm?

[The Hook]

Asche and biddle with Franco are my top three prospects with Quinn close to them. The second part of year. All really having great second half seasons. And the Lino kid have really turned it around. Ave low but has a lot of doubles and only 19.

[bay_area_phan]

Fat: I believe so. And that ball was thrown from shallow CF, when he was charging in on it.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

So what's the record for team getting thrown out at the plate in a season?

[Cyclic]

The kind of good AB that produces a run would be nice here.

[stocky vance]

FROM PRIOR BLOG

REA: Martin (4-0, 1.48)
LHV: Cloyd (12-1, 2.27
CLR: Biddle (9-5, 3.26)

3 ace night?

Posted by: stocky vance | Thursday, August 23, 2012 at 06:22 PM

[Fatalotti]

Brown really does have an excellent eye. How he held off that 1-2 pitch, I'll never know.

[The Office]

"Solid stroke by Brown. Just in an unfortunate spot."

That's what she said!

[Cyclic]

Oh Brown.

[stocky vance]

Sammy might writing his own termination notice and an opening for that Pigs guy... who is that now..

[bay_area_phan]

2 of the 3 "aces" are doing their part.

Cloyd has a no-no through 5.

Biddle has a 2-hit shutout, with 9 Ks, through 6.

Martin isn't doing so well -- 5 walks in 4 innings. That has always been his problem.

[Brooklyn Phillies]

Well, the good news is that Cueto's pitch count has now surpassed Hamels's.

[MG]

Phils have to have had at least a dozen guys thrown out at home this year. Probably close to 15-16.

Samuel is the worst 3B coach I have seen since Wendell Kim with the Red Sox who finally got canned after the '00 season. Aggressive bordering on suicidal sending runners home. Stunned if Samuel isn't back next year though in the same role especially since he is a guy who played with the Phils for a prolonged stretch.

Coaching staff really could use an overhaul this offseason too.

[GTown_Dave]

MG: Steve Smith was also pitiful. I didn't think it was possible for anyone else to be that bad until I saw Samuel.

[MG]

Reds doing a really good job of fouling off pitches and making Hamels work. Already have 19 foul balls through the first 4 IP.

[MG]

Dave - yeah he was. Perlozzo often didn't get mentioned over at 3B which is the best compliment you can pay to a 3B coach.

[MG]

Make it 18 fouled off pitches including 10 with 2 strikes. That's how you grind out a good pitcher.

Yanks used to always do that with Pedro. Wear him down so that by the 6th inning he would be at or approaching ~100 pitches and be gone by the 7th.

[stocky vance]

martin out after 4 2/3 and 7 walks,

[bay_area_phan]

I have this mental image of MG, sitting in his den every night with 15 tvs tuned in to the 15 different major league games that are taking place that night. He's got a pad of paper in his lap and a pen in his right hand, which he uses to jot down notes each time one of the 30 third base coaches makes a bad decision. In his other hand, he's got a clicker which he uses to count the foul balls in the Phillies game.

[GTown_Dave]

Martinez is like J-Roll w/ better ABs ... Damn that's sad.

[Fatalotti]

BAP, I agree. Mini-Mart wakes up every morning laughing hysterically, wondering how the hell he fell ass-backwards in a Major League job that has now lasted almost 2 full years.

[can_of_corn]

There's that grin again. MG, I agree...I don't know much about Mini, so I could be mistaken. But he seems arrogant to me at times, too. It was even worse when he used to unbutton his shirt halfway down his chest.

He's probably grinning only because he can't believe his luck to be playing.

[Iceman]

"Martinez is like J-Roll w/ better ABs ... Damn that's sad."

The game threads have missed this kind of insightful commentary.

[Iceman]

MG is right about Samuel. He is God awful.

You have to at least have some idea of the situation in the game as a third base coach. A single to shallow CF against a guy with a good arm, with one out, and the heart of the order coming up. The bases would have been loaded against a guy that was having trouble with his control. There is no way you take a risk like that in the 3rd inning. Samuel is clueless.

[MG]

Phils haven't had a bad approach vs. Cueto tonight and have had some decent ABs. Just not making much solid contact.

[MG]

BAP - Laundry, work, and game on in the background. Exciting Thurs.

[Fatalotti]

Has Tom McCarthy said the phrase "Pitcher's Duel" yet?

I think I missed it.

[bay_area_phan]

Here's where Pierre does the only thing he knows how to do when a man is on 1st: bunt.

[can_of_corn]

Last year there was some speculation that MG was really Ricky Bo.

[SLO Phan]

Man on third, less than 2 outs. The Phils excel in this situation!

[bay_area_phan]

Does Pierre realize that it's ok to swing away when a man is on base? He's hitting .300 for the year, and is almost impossible to double up, yet he intentionally gives up an out literally every single time there's a man on base.

Is this on Pierre or Cholly?

[ChollyM]

Okay, my pitcher is at 3rd with 1 out. Time to call for a squeeze!

[MG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgyRKcEXYtI&feature=player_embedded

Pretty funny Francesa ripping the Mets after they got swept by the Rockies in a 4-game series at home. Lost 14 of last 16 at home (worst stretch at home since '82) and are 11-30 in last 42 games.

[Fatalotti]

Damn, the ONE thing that Frandsen is actually REALLY good at, not striking out, he does, with a guy on 3rd and one out, when contact is king.

[Cyclic]

Clutch hitting as usual.

[Iceman]

They have ripped some balls tonight, but nothing to show for it.

Still can't believe Samuel sent Pierre in that situation.

[SLO Phan]

God I hate JJ. Chase hits the ball and you think he crushed it to the moon. But, no, right at Bruce. WTF JJ?! WTF?!?

[can_of_corn]

Sigh.

[ChollyM]

Kevin? S*ck my balls! Are you TRYING to get me fired??????

[MG]

This inability of this team to score runs from 3B with less than 2 outs is horrendous.

[Iceman]

Although on replay, if Pierre would've just barreled into Hannigan, he'd have gotten there. He basically slid as if he wasn't allowed to touch the catcher.

[NEPP]

Kinda shocked by the Schwimer move...so unlike the FO to do that.

Good to see Aumont get a chance though...this is expanded ST for 2013 basically.

Cody Asche back on the wagon after an 0fer last night 2 for 2, 1 HR, 1 2B. Up to an .867 OPS in AA now.

[clout]

Mini Mart flashes leather

[NEPP]

Make that 3 for 3, .872 OPS now.