Game chat: J-Roll maintains Phillies' lead-off spot

Here's a team stat table, sorted by the on-base percentage of a particular team's No. 1 hitter. Charlie Manuel has trotted out a number of crazy lineups this season. But more and more, the craziest lineup is one where the usual lead-off hitter, Jimmy Rollins, lugs his .298 on-base percentage to the plate while Juan Pierre has a .350. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Willard Preacher]

JW, don't you know that we're not permitted to criticize JRoll? You must not be a true fan. That, or you're a front runner.

[curt]

It's not Rollins' fault that he's the permanent leadoff hitter. In Chollyworld, lineups are based on tradition and sentimentality, not skills.

[3r0ck]

Criticizing Rollins is for racists only! ::rolls eyes::

By the way, the jump to newest comments link is broke again.

[bullit]

clearly juan should lead off. if lineup optimization calls for your worst hitter to bat 3rd, stick jimmy there. i like the idea of dom batting second since we want a double to score pierre. or a single if he steals second.

[Willard Preacher]

I love the idea of Dom 2nd, both because it gets him more PA's this year, and because he's actually turning into a hell of a two-hole type of hitter. I'm hopeful that he turns the power on a bit once he gets more comfortable, but for now I'm just pleased with his good AB's.

[gobaystars!]

I get that people are sort of joking in the first two posts but this posts shows exactly how to criticize a player. JW has obviously said positive and negative things about Rollins over the years. A few weeks ago there was a header saying more or less that Rollins was having a decent season. He was. He hit a slump and now he isn't. That's valid. Additionally, JW has accumulated some credibility by posting all sorts of valid opinions regardless of whether one agrees with all of them.
Now when a poster harps on one player or a select few constantly, people get suspicious. When it is all that poster brings to the table, people tell them to bug off.

[GTown_Dave]

I'm pleased every game Dom doesn't trip over a molecule of air & break his arm in the resulting fall.

[Iceman]

No one is criticizing Rollins. He doesn't fill out the lineup card.

If you want to criticize Rollins for something he has no control over (i.e. "He refuses to bat anywhere else!"), then yeah, you will probably be rightly called an idiot.

[gobaystars!]

I agree with Iceman. Completely agree. The image of the sulking JRoll refusing to hit anywhere else is the worst myth perpetuated by people with an anit-Rollins agenda. He hit 3rd to open the last 2 seasons and dropped out of the leadoff spot in the 2010 playoff (I think it was 2010). No issues. No controversy. No one sat out games over it.

[bullit]

did anyone read that article about the president of one of the major testing labs claiming that 50% of players are using PED's, largely testosterone? they apply a cream or gel after a game which disapperas from the body within 8 hours.

since men lose teststerone as they age, to be unable to treat medically this is ridiculous application of in loco parentis.

[awh, Founder, JRoll in the 6-Hole Club]

JW, my sometimes moniker says all I have to say about this issue.....

[Iceman]

How do we feel about a Bourn-Brown-Utley-Howard-Ruiz top 5 in the lineup? Against RHP, I like that a lot. It would be even better if you could trust Manuel to switch Ruiz to 2 and move Brown to 6th vs. LHP, but that will never happen. He'd most likely move Mayberry to 2.

[stocky vance]

from last thread...

Another decent trade was Thome to Baltimore for 2 prospects: Lino, and Simon.

Lino (a catcher), is doing what's generally expected of him, at Lakewood, and hopefully he will improve a bit... currently approx at .220 (improved from below Mendoza line)

But Kyle Simon mustache and all.. was an ok starter for the Baltimore ML affiliate, but since trade to Phl, now is a mid- long reliever... going 2-3 innings at a pop and very very effective - first at Clrwtr (FSL) for a short stint, and quickly promoted to Reading and continuing to be effective in a long relief role.

[stocky vance]

JW, don't you know that we're not permitted to criticize JRoll? You must not be a true fan. That, or you're a front runner.

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 05:51 PM

----------------------
JW --> WP speaks the truth... I still have bruises on my bruises /s
: )

[GBrettFan]

GTown - Your Dom comment is hilarious.

Have fun at the game!

[Cyclic]

Is re-signing Vic not a viable option?

Would Bourn be that much better?

[stocky vance]

Right now, given, the Melky situation probably bumps up the cost of either CF, but esp Bourn

[GBrettFan]

Call me crazy, but I think there's a difference between arguing that Jimmy might better suited to batting lower in the order and arguing that he's selfish and fails to put forth effort.

[lorecore]

All that chart does is make me drool over Mike Trout more.

[stocky vance]

Call me crazy , but I think there's a difference between arguing that Jimmy might better suited to batting lower in the order and arguing that he's selfish and fails to put forth effort.

Posted by: GBrettFan | Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 06:52 PM
----------------------------------
RE: jROLL ---

Crazy, you are absolutely correct.

Uncle!!

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: Thanks!

[MG]

Only had 20 G so far but Brown has been underwhelming so far. Looked indecisive on the base paths (doesn't have a SB yet), below average defensively, overmatched vs LHP pitching, and has been hitting too many weak ground balls.

If he is going to be a regular at the MLB level, it is because of the offensive numbers he puts up. It won't be for his defense/base stealing abilities.

[bullit]

i guess the bourn advantage is that he's a lead-off hitter. but i'd still rather have vic. let someone else overpay to watch bourn's decline years.

[ChollyM]

I'm going to bat Howard first, and Mini Mart cleanup, and any of you who don't like it can pound sand! Now, where is that bag of pistachios?

[Mick O]

The Melky affair will have wild ripple effects on the market for OFs. You probably saw that Nick Swisher is going to be looking for a Jayson Werth-type deal. Going to be an interesting offseason. I mean, of course Swish won't get that, but it could mean that he, and Bourn with him, wait longer than usual to sign hoping for monster deals -- meaning a long offseason and wild developments just before camps. I'll toss Fielder into the culprits for this sort of nonsense. He waited, and waited... and got his. I expect a lot of guys to wait it out this off-season as well.

[denny b.]

Another really good start for Pettibone at LV today:

6 IP, 2 hits, 0 ER and 3 K's.

[stocky vance]

btw

so far in LV

JPettibone 6 innings 2 hits 0 runs 3bb 3k 1.74 ERA

[stocky vance]

denny b. - great minds think alike :)

[denny b.]

Vance-

Well, I don't know about "great minds"....but

I did say last night that I thought the top 6 in the Phils lineup were all good matchups against Leake. Sometimes you get one right, I guess..

Pettibone is a guy nobody has been talking about this year, but he's been really good all year long. He has pitched great since the promotion to AAA. And he's still only 22 years old.

[awh, Founder, JRoll in the 6-Hole Club]

"How do we feel about a Bourn-Brown-Utley-Howard-Ruiz top 5 in the lineup?"

That would be great. then we could follow my desire in my signature!

[Rick Schu-in]

Agree that tweaking the line-up makes sense, after all, we're in the "laboratory" phase of the season ...

But I wouldn't overestimate the difference this would make. Four of the five teams below Philly on that list have a legitimate shot of October baseball.

Messing with the lead-off hitter is akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic ... it's the bullpen iceberg that really needs the focus.

[Iceman]

I can't wait until we sign a very good player to play CF and everyone on BL whines about it incessantly because they don't want to overpay. It's gonna be awesome.

Prediction: if we get Bourn, there will be whining about overpaying. If we get Upton/Pagan, people will whine that they aren't that good.

[bullit]

nice running catch for the defensive liability.

[Cyclic]

Ice-- If we get Vic, is that the best of both worlds?

[The Truth Injection]

Iceman: Almost as if people like to complain on here.

The more I think about it, the more I would like a Pagan signing if they could get him at something like 3 years.

[Iceman]

And for the record, I would be happy with Upton or Pagan. I think they can get away with signing one of those guys and spend money in other areas (3B, corner OF, bullpen) to make this team better in 2013.

But if Bourn is signed to a big contract, people will lump it in with the Papelbon contract, and that will be ridiculous. Papelbon's limited affect on the overall success of the team has already been exposed. Bourn will make this team better offensively, defensively and on the bases. He will play everyday. The team needs these upgrades in 2013, and they might have to overpay to do it.

Oh, well. They have the money, they want to spend it, so I hope they spend it. Spend all of it.

[The Truth Injection]

Nice kick save by Bruce to save a second run.

[clout]

If any poster here ever said J-Roll was a good leadoff hitter, I missed it. What I've read is that folks think J-Roll is a bad leadoff hitter, but bats first because the team, until this year with Pierre, has never had a true leadoff hitter.

[Iceman]

Cyclic- if Vic is an option and will sign here on the cheap, I would like that deal.

TTI- I was shocked to see Pagan's numbers, and he's putting them up at ATT Park. He would be a good under-the-radar signing, depending on the price, though his injury history is a concern.

[Cyclic]

So close, AAAberry.

[bullit]

J-Roll was a good leadoff hitter.

[stocky vance]

Final

LV 1
TOL 0

7 inning complete game Shutout by Pettibone
3 hits; 3 BB; 4K; 103 Pitches- 59 strikes

[Iceman]

Oh good God was that low. And the call was incredibly late.

[bullit]

i wouldn't want dom to think he regularly needs to swing at that low and away pitch, even if this ump thinks it's a strike.

[Willard Preacher]

I see that even the broadcast team is pulling out all the stops in a lost season, bringing in someone boring to try to counteract the over exuberance homerism of TBag. Nice work, fellas.

[denny b.]

Mayberry from the right side now looks like Howard from the left side.

Basically a no step approach.

Howard is locked in right now. He's turning on pitches inside. And if they start going away again, he's going to take someone deep to left soon.

Mayberry looks good too. He's staying on the ball and he looks quicker up there. And he's now turning on fastballs inside, that were eating him alive earlier in the year. That was a good swing he put on Bailey on that foul ball and he scalded that ball into the corner. That's a pitch a month ago, he probably fouls off to the right side.

[stocky vance]

Cody Asche R-Phils 3rd baseman - 2 run home-run v. Harrisburg's C.M Wang.

[norbertods]

Sorry if this has alread been answered but why did Aumont get called up before DeFratus?

[docjoe]

Would love to see Tyson Gillies get a callup and bat leadoff for a month and play cf. Before the season is over Jimmy will be batting < 230 with more popups. Give Gillies a run unless he is being punished for off the field incidence. We do need a CF next year

[stocky vance]

Sorry if this has alread been answered but why did Aumont get called up before DeFratus?

Posted by: norbertods | Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 07:49 PM

---
believe so

[stocky vance]

Would love to see Tyson Gillies get a callup and bat leadoff for a month and play cf... We do need a CF next year

Posted by: docjoe | Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 07:50 PM
------------
he's currently hiting .295 with RPhils

[bullit]

lee is looking tilty.

[Cyclic]

Been driving me nuts for a long time. What the heck does McCarthy say in the Citizens Bank ad?

We're for homes?

[stocky vance]

should be hitting.. not hiting

[The Truth Injection]

I think Gillies has a chance to be a nice major leaguer, but I don't really want them to rush him along. Let him sit in the minors next year and just let him play next year in Lehigh Valley for a year. I don't even think I would call him up in September this year.

[Cyclic]

Yeah do players often go straight from AA to the majors?

[bullit]

i don't think i want gillies riding the bus that long. get him up here where we take a jet.

[Cyclic]

He's just straight dealing.

[Will Schweitzer]

With Charlie's stubborn refusal to yield to reality and Sandberg waiting, how much rope does Charlie have in 2013? If the Phil's are in third place by the middle of June, does Charlie enter July with a job?

[bay_area_phan]

103 pitches, with 59 strikes, translates to about a 7-inning, 5-run performance in the major leagues.

[PKS]

Wait, wait, when they were saying happy birthday to that kid on the cut away, TMac said "Do they all have their Hunter Pence bobbleheades?" I know it was joked about here before that tonight was Hunter Pence bobblehead night, but they didn't actually go through with it, did they???????

[Conway Twitty]

Is that GTownDave with the fake eyebrows,nose, and muzzy behind HP?

[bullit]

i don't know, Cyclic. but i know Schmidt didn't spend much time on the farm. just 2 years after leading his ohio u. team to the college world series in 1970 he made his phillies debut in sept. 1972.

[Iceman]

They aren't firing Manuel.

It would be great if Lee is starting one of his sick unhittable stretches right now. 3 ER and 20 Ks in his last 12 and 2/3 IP. Just mowing people down.

Hamels and Lee looking like this gives you an idea why not everyone has given up hope for 2013.

[Iceman]

Despite looking great, it's time to play the weekly game, "How will they blow Cliff Lee's start today?"

I've got an error to score a run in the 6th or 7th, and the latest 8th inning flop du jour giving the Cincy the lead for good.

[NEPP]

I think Gillies has the chance to be a solid 4/5 OF...at best.

Looks like Utley & Howard are alive and well.

[bay_area_phan]

"Despite looking great, it's time to play the weekly game, "How will they blow Cliff Lee's start today?""

I see 2 possible scenarios. Possibility 1 is that Lee allows a game-tying homerun around the 7th or 8th & the bullpen takes over & loses it around the 10th. Possibility 2 is that the Phillies add a couple more runs, thereby supplying Lee with exactly the type of cushy lead which immediately causes him to produce a melt-down inning.

[bay_area_phan]

Or Possibility 3 is the Reds hit a 3-run homer right here.

[Cyclic]

If this game is following one of the 2012 scripts, I sense a HR in this inning.

[Jbird]

Cyclic- yes, prospects often skip AAA or serve a very short amount of time there. AA is considered the sifting league in terms of real vs chump prospects while AAA has become more of a taxi squad league than a prospect league.

[NEPP]

Grand Slam in 3,2,1...

[Not Cliff Lee]

Juiced no outs. If this were a cop movie, this would be the part where the car starts tumbling down the cliff, but the explosion hasn't started yet.

[bay_area_phan]

That was a hell of a play.

[bullit]

wow, franny, wow.

[The Truth Injection]

Go curveball 0-2 here.

[Cyclic]

Almost makes you believe they can get out of this inning spotless.

[The Truth Injection]

Very nice job by Lee there with some great help by Frandsen.

This feels like vintage Phillies right now.

[bullit]

anybody predict that outcome?

[Cyclic]

That was pretty dang awesome.

[NEPP]

2011 Clifton Lee FTW!!!

[denny b.]

Game Over.

[Not Cliff Lee]

Holy freaking crap.

[Jbird]

Maybe someone else mentioned this and I missed it, but I find it interesting that of the teams below the Phillies on JW's chart, all but Seattle have a strong shot at the playoffs. I bet at least 2 and maybe even 3 of those 5 teams make the dance. Thus, what I've learned today is that your team is better off having a leadof hitter with a sub-.300 obp. Sabremetrics is great!

[Stocky Vance]

Ladies and Gentlemen - meet your 2013 3rd baseman Kevin Frandsen

Ladies and Gentlemen - meet your 2014 3rd baseman Cody Asche

[NEPP]

I hate to say this but at this point, I'm scared that Cody Asche will get caught juicing considering the ridiculous season he's having in AA.

[Stocky Vance]

Nepp. -- I hope he isnt that stupid

[NEPP]

I hope he isnt either...and I hate to say things like that but I'm getting a bit jaded.

[bay_area_phan]

Watching the Phillies completely flail against the pathetic Homer Bailey is the ultimate jolt of reality to those who watched us score a bunch of runs last night & began to think that maybe this new-look offense is starting to come around.

[NEPP]

This is when I wish we had a bullpen.

Or an offense.

[bay_area_phan]

There isn't even the tiniest sliver of doubt in my mind that we are going to lose this game.

[NEPP]

At least the walk sets up the DP.

[gobaystars!]

I really don't see this working out well. The Phillies pulled off some excellent defense last inning but 2 runs here feels like the ball game.

[GBrettFan]

I was away when Lee somehow loaded the bases in the previous inning. But it feels like he'll not escape unscathed from the 7th.

Yeah, NEPP. How about both a BP AND offense?

[gobaystars!]

K would be huge here.

[gobaystars!]

No! Not Miguel Cairo!

[GBrettFan]

Oh, Howard.

[NEPP]

That thoroughly sucked.

[GBrettFan]

Score after this inning? 3-1 Reds? 5-1?

[mainerob]

He should have had Lee out of the game after the first batter. I don't care how bad the bullpen has been. Lee has shown himself to lose it bigtime in games he's pitched this season.

Take him out you stupid a-hole.

[gobaystars!]

Given how Howard right now might be the least athletic person in baseball, is there a way to rework cutoffs to not involve him? There really isn't.