Game chat: In lieu of a proper game preview ...

[Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Cyclic]

I want a nice old fashioned 2007-2008 game chat today.

Lots of "Great hit, JRoll!" "Nice play, Chase!" "Another bomb from Howard!" ... etc.

This season is over. Let's stop the hand-wringing and extraneous discussion. Just root for our team.

Go Phils!

[Little Ollie]

JW being a bit lazy with this post, though on the other hand what else do we watch for at this point other than to look forward to 2013.

Brown not in the lineup. One would have hoped he be killing it by now.

[Scott]

I realize it has nothing to do with anything, but I think a random commenter on philly.com deserves some credit for referring to our GM as "Ruin Tomorrow, Jr."

[Unikruk]

Lazy? Why spoil a masterpiece with an extra brushstroke?

[Cyclic]

Why do we just assume that players won't develop?

Injury-prone-ness aside, I don't know how Brown can be considered a bust. Who's to say he won't improve his conditioning in the offseason? He is still young.

And Galvis. Yes, his bat was unimpressive and helped by PEDs, but again, he's young, was moved up early due to necessity. I don't know how we can make definitive statements like 'He'll never be a major league hitter' at this point.

I'm willing to wait and see. It's like people expect all young players to come up and be Mike Trout.

[Gregm]

Out of curiosity, anyone else see the excerpt on Philly.com about Utley questioning Amaro Jr. about a possible move to Third Base?

Sorry if this is old news, I just saw it.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Utley-exploring-possibility-of-move-to-third-base.html

I know he never had the arm strength before, but I'm sure this might actually help his career, and it would give us a presumably solid Power-hitting third baseman with probably average to above average defense.

[Cyclic]

From MLBTradeRumors:

The 31-year-old switch-hitter told Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times that he has no intention of returning as a bench player.

"Are you crazy?" Victorino said. "I'm not even thinking about stepping back. Why would I? I'm 31 years old. . . . I'm going to be an everyday play, whether it be here, whether it be Philly, whether it be any uniform."

~~~

I say he's back in Philly next year.

[Scott]

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb

Amaro was asked if Jimmy Rollins was an option at third: "Best SS in the league. Why would we move him?"

[Scotch Man]

I think Victorino is back next year too.

[denny b.]

Its time to move on from Victorino.

We already have enough guys, whose best days appear to be behind them. Its a big reason we are in the state we are in.

Vic was a great Phillie and he has so many great memories on great teams. But those days are over.

[STS]

If the Sox had offered Upton for Howard straight up, do you do it?

[Kendrick Appreciation Society]

NL WAR for SS

Desmond 3.7
Reyes and Rollins 3.3

Maybe not the best in the league, but close.

[STS]

I'm all for Vic returning on a reasonable deal. I.e. < 3y $24MM

[denny b.]

Cholly Manual was asked if Rollins would ever be moved out of the leadoff position:

"Best leadoff hitter in the league. Why would we move him?"

BTW, Rollins has the arm to play 3B. Utley does not.

[RK]

Repost from prior thread: There are some real pros in Philly.
I wouldn't dismiss Howard trades look at what LAD and Boston concocted. Having said that Howard is not our number one player issue.
As distinguished from management issues which are trully the number one issues.
How could this team permit two players Brown and Worley) on the field with injuries?

It is mindboggling to think that another player (Utley) could talk RAJ into trying out for third. Especially now that there is an effective 3rd baseman there.

As for concern about Brown? He was hitting the ball and fielding just fine prior to his injury and now he is a concern? The way this management ying-yangs ball players around is incredibly unprofessional. I remember how Utley and Howard were delayed because the team had contracts with other players.
Ruf is breaking records but is too old. Let me see I bet some other professional stooge said the same about Kratz and Frandsen.
Spare me. Is it possible some guys take a little longer to develop? I sure wouldn't mind a few more years of Kratz and Frandsen on this level. Mind you I am not saying Ruf is going to come up and become an overnight sensation but as logn as he doesn't come up we will never know.

[Cyclic]

KAS-- I know Amaro definitely had WAR on his mind when he made that comment.

[CN]

RT @magelb

Michael Schwimer is reporting to triple-A Lehigh Valley today. No grievances or suspensions, apparently.

[PhillyJoe]

We might as well see what Cloyd has. Worst case scenario he bombs and the phils finish in 3rd place. Best case scenario, Cloyd throws 5 perfect games in a row to finish out the season and the phils finish in 3rd place.

[PhillyJoe]

My guess is that Cloyd will fall somewhere in between and the Phils will finish in 3rd place.

[CN]

What is Ruben Amaro Jr.'s "perfect scenario" at third base for 2013-14? Hint: It involves a prospect

"In a perfect scenario," Amaro said, "Chase plays a year at third base and we figure out a way to keep him around long term at whatever position and Cody Asche becomes available and ready to play in the major leagues. But who knows? He’s playing in double A. He’s having a really, really good second half over there. But still, it’s just double A."

Courtesy of Matt Gelb. Amaro believes Asche to be the future. Who knew?

[CN]

What is Ruben Amaro Jr.'s "perfect scenario" at third base for 2013-14? Hint: It involves a prospect

"In a perfect scenario," Amaro said, "Chase plays a year at third base and we figure out a way to keep him around long term at whatever position and Cody Asche becomes available and ready to play in the major leagues. But who knows? He’s playing in double A. He’s having a really, really good second half over there. But still, it’s just double A."

Courtesy of Matt Gelb. Amaro believes Asche to be the future. Who knew?

Also, I apologize for my stupidity with the tags.

[CN]

I'll just stop trying.

[Iceman]

dennyb- if you're going to continue to rip the manager, learn how to spell his name. He has been the manager here for several seasons now.

[NEPP]

Bad, bad BL posters

[NEPP]

Test

[NEPP]

There we go...fixed it.

[aksmith]

I get the impression that Rube Jr. follows the minors the way many of us do. Watching the occasional game on MiLB.TV and reading PhuturePhillies.com. More of a dabbler than a GM. Some of the stuff he says is lol-worthy.

[Iceman]

Also, regarding Utley at third: why the hell not?

People here were seriously pushing the idea of Ruiz at third base. Why is trying Utley there any more ridiculous? The outlook for 2013 at the position is so bleak that you might as well try everything. And Utley clearly can't play 150 games at 2B. Would this position be any easier on his knees? Certainly wouldn't hurt to find out. This is a player in need of a position change, unlike Ruiz, who is an excellent catcher.

I will say though, if by some miracle Utley proves he can play the position, and the plan is Galvis at 2B, that is not a smart plan. Get Kelly Johnson to play 2B or something. But by what Amaro has said about Galvis, it looks like he will do back flips to get him in the starting lineup, for whatever reason. And a team with Utley at 3B and Galvis at 2B would be worse than what you have right now. They'd be better off signing Keppinger for 3B or something like that.

[Cyclic]

Keppinger plays 2B too.

[CN]

In my defense twice my post was bolded without me placing any tags. Three if this one is as well.

And I really wish Cloyd chose a different number. Hopefully Qualls doesn't jinx that number for Cloyd as Baez did for Savery.

[Cyclic]

There goes the perfect game

[aksmith]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what's wrong with Utley at second, Frandsen at third and buying a bullpen and a couple of outfielders.

Moving Utley to third gives the Phillies no positional flexibility that they actually need. And just thinking about Utley's awful arm at third makes me laugh. So, maybe there is an upside. I haven't had a good laugh in a while.

[CN]

Well at least he hasn't blown the opportunity for 20 strikeouts.

[NEPP]

Guess we know who "ArtD" over on PP is now...guy is nuts about Asche.

[NEPP]

Moving Utley to make space for Galvis as a starter is a stupid, stupid move.

Moving Utley and signing a FA 2B would make sense...if there were actually any good ones available which I dont believe there are.

[Iceman]

Nice movement on his fastball. That curve needs some work, though.

[Cyclic]

Nice "clean" frame.

I also don't understand how moving Utley is supposed to help anything.

[bay_area_phan]

Sort of fitting that on probably the hardest hit ball that Pierre has had all year, he ends up with a single.

[CN]

Take note of how Rube does not clarify which Chase. Headley or Utley?

But on a serious note I'd rather have Frandsen at 3rd for a year and Utley at 2nd than Utley at 3rd and...whoever at second.

[SLO Phan]

Nice. Man on third, less than 2 outs. Phils always do well here!

[Iceman]

"I'm having a hard time figuring out what's wrong with Utley at second, Frandsen at third"

Other than Utley being unable to play more than half a season at 2B and Frandsen being a career minor leaguer that has had a few nice weeks in the majors at a position that he isn't very familiar with (and is a historically poor defender to begin with), there's nothing wrong with it. What a great idea.

[NEPP]

Solid AB by Howard.

Well done, Ryno.

How is all the diving that a 3B does easier on the knees than 2B?

[SLO Phan]

That should be enough for Cloyd.

[CN]

Way to make contact Howie~

[Willard Preacher]

Utley to 3rd to put Galvis at 2nd is monumentally stupid for several reasons:

1. Galvis has already played 3rd recently and has shown the stronger arm
2. (and even more importantly) Galvis is not a MLB-caliber starting 2nd baseman (or 3rd baseman for that matter)

This feels like tinkering just for the sake of tinkering. If that's what RAJ wants to do, why not start with dropping Rollins in the lineup?

[Willard Preacher]

Iceman, so it's the act of playing 2nd base that is limiting Chase to 1/2 a season? And third base is supposed to help with that?

Placido Polanco would like to politely disagree with you...

[NEPP]

I have another option...how about replacing the GM?

That would be some fun tinkering that might help.

[GTown_Dave]

Should the esteemed GM ever choose to watch him take a few balls at 3B we all better hope Utley fails miserably, or r00b's next brilliant offseason will play out something like

(C) Chooch
(1B) Howard
(2B) Galvis
(3B) Utley
(SS) Rollins
(LF) Pierre
(CF) Vic
(RF) Brown

And he'll actually think that's enough, too.

[CN]

@Will: But he's our leadoff guy.

[Iceman]

Cyclic- because Utley's bat is way better than anything they can find on the FA market at 3B, and Frandsen, despite the pipe dreams of some BL, is not a viable option, either.

2013 FA second basemen:

Jeff Baker
Fontenot
O-Dawg
Maicer Izturis
Kelly Johnson
Adam Kennedy
Keppinger
Jose Lopez
Aaron Miles
Freddy Sanchez
Ryan 'The Savior' Theriot

Johnson and Keppinger are basically the only guys worth going after, but both would be worlds better than Galvis offensively, and a combo of Utley/Kepp or Utley/Johnson is better than the combo of Utley/garbage FA 3B and, yes, even Utley/Frandsen.

This is, of course, probably not going to happen, because there are significant doubts about Utley being able to play the position. But the situation is so bleak, it is worth a try.

[bay_area_phan]

Assuming for the sake of argument that Utley is even capable of playing 3rd, I am still against the plan simply because any plan to move Utley to a new position immediately gives rise to an inference that Freddie Galvis would take over as the starting 2nd baseman.

[Slocs]

The reason you move utley is so he doesn't beat himself up as much and plays more games. The theory is if Chase is an option at third, that gives the Phillies more flexibility. They can pursue via a trade/FA a 2b or 3b whatever works best. Seems like SD wanted an huge ransom for Headley and there aren't many options in FA.

[clout]

Some here may have forgotten that in the minors Utley was tried at 3B and Howard tried in the OF.

Both experiments failed.

Utley has the reactions to play 3B, but, back then, didn't have the arm. Still worth a look-see but don't know how a guy can throw harder when he's older than younger.

[bay_area_phan]

Ok, I've pretty much seen enough of Tyler Cloyd to render an opinion on his major league worthiness, or lack thereof.

[Slocs]

what was missed today was Rube was talking grounders at 2nd, planning a comeback...

[NEPP]

***Some here may have forgotten that in the minors Utley was tried at 3B and Howard tried in the OF***

Actually I think 99% of the board brought that up as soon as the new broke...but yeah.

[Iceman]

WP- the only thing wrong with Chase is his knees. Polanco is basically a scarecrow. He would get hurt going out to get the morning paper at this point.

And again, I don't know if 3B would be easier on the knees than 2B. Have no idea. But I would think that is being taken into consideration here.

And if the plan is Galvis at 2B, I am wholeheartedly against it, as I'm sure everyone not in the FO is. But I do find it comical that people are against Galvis but are on board the Frandsen train after a few weeks. Both players should not be viable options.

[CN]

If only Brown could actually stay healthy, he'd probably have gunned Hairston down.

[clout]

That was a 35-foot laser by Pierre to the cutoff man.

[GTown_Dave]

b_a_p: There's something refreshing about watching a new guy play poorly, though. One becomes so weary of watching the same old failures.

[NEPP]

That was a nice SO pitch there.

[bay_area_phan]

I'll grant that a strong throwing arm isn't really the first attribute you look for in a left fielder. But it's amazing how Juan Pierre's complete inability to throw manages to cost us a run in almost every game he plays.

[Willard Preacher]

Iceman, on Galvis/Frandsen it seems we agree. I guess I don't see this "flexibility" Utley at 3B gives the Phillies. It just shifts the need to another position. With the current roster of infield options, it's a shell game you can't win.

[bay_area_phan]

CN: With virtually any other left fielder in baseball, the runner would still be standing on 3rd. He wouldn't have dared try to score because any normal left fielder would have gunned him down by 15 feet.

[NEPP]

Reached back there to get it up to 88 mph.

DOC!

[Sil Campusano]

Brown's hose cuts down Hairston there for sure. And can somebody please get that guy out once?

[clout]

NEPP: Sorry, didn't see earlier thread and if you look above you'll see several posters acting like they never heard of it.

[Willard Preacher]

BAP, but it's Pierre's arm strength that's the inspiration for RAJ's latest brain child!

[Willard Preacher]

I actually anxiously tuned into the radio broadcast just to see if Franzke made any allusion to his Hairston incident, as soon as he was announced as the PH last night. Sadly, nothing.

[NEPP]

Maybe they'll give Pierre some reps at 2B.

Its all part of the master plan.

[CN]

@BAP: Well yeah, with almost every other LF you'd expect a throw that'd reach the plate in a reasonable time. Juan Pierre is the wonderful exception.

[Jack]

I'm with BAP. I don't care if Cloyd throws 7 scoreless from here in. I'm willing to write him off as a major-league starter right now.

[denny b.]

CHOLLY, CHOLLY, CHOLLY, CHOLLY!!!!

How do you spell Chuckles name, Icebox?

[Willard Preacher]

Iceman, no real expansion on why he's leaning that way, but Murphy's tweet alludes to Galvis being in the conversation:

"Real question isn't whether Utley can field well enough to play 3B instead of 2B. It's whether Galvis can hit well enough to play either"

"At least that is what I am writing in the newspaper tomorrow."

[NEPP]

I dont see Greg Maddux here...I do see Livan Hernandez.

[CN]

Yup, never mind that he's making his debut and is probably crapping himself, just as Cole wouldve done tonight.

[NEPP]

I think moving Utley to 3B and starting Galvis hurts us at 2 positions...but I'm crazy like that.

[Willard Preacher]

Cloyd's wife>>>Cloyd's wife's hat

[GTown_Dave]

Cloyd's already a bigger offensive threat than Galvis.

[CN]

And Cloyd with the 1.000 OBP. Now THAT'S a leadoff man's OBP.

[NEPP]

Moyer would have scored there...BOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Lots of balls to give away Jamie's number like that.

[Iceman]

WP- I think it has more to do with the options available via FA or trade. There may not be many great 2B that are FA/trade candidates, but there are quite a few more options at that position than there are at 3B. I would like Kelly Johnson's bat in the lineup. I think he is a candidate for a bit of a bounce-back year and he wouldn't be very expensive. He hits for power, draws walks and can steal a few bases. That would be a nice acquisition for the team.

But yeah, if this is Amaro's bright idea to get Galvis in the lineup, count me out on the idea. They would be better off getting one of the scrap heap 3B available in the winter.

[CN]

Atta boy JRoll~ 2 Out Scoring Position hitting, such a rarity these days.

[bay_area_phan]

How the hell can Cloyd be held at 3rd there?

[denny b.]

"Also, regarding Utley at third: why the hell not?"

He doesn't have the arm for 3rd base, Icey.

The worst part (by far) of Utley's defensive game is his throwing. And that's from 2nd base. Utley's never been a good throwing 2B.

Extend it out to 3rd base and what do you think is going to happen?

The only other position Utley MIGHT be able to play is 1B.

[Cyclic]

I think moving Utley to 3B and starting Galvis hurts us at 2 positions...but I'm crazy like that.

Posted by: NEPP

^This.

[Cyclic]

Great hit, JRoll!

[NEPP]

Maybe Utley's arm issues are that they're simply not challenging him enough. I mean, this is a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

[CN]

@NEPP: I think they already insulted Jamie's memory by giving the number to Qualls, but that's just me.

[DH Phils]

Cloyd actually has a pretty impressive .226/.314/.258 minor league hitting line.

[NEPP]

I'm sorry, I've blocked out all memories of Chad Qualls at this point.

[Willard Preacher]

Cloyd is currently rocking a 9K/9 right now!

[DH Phils]

NEPP: Utley at 3B is a worse idea than the "Jump to Conclusions" mat.

[Cyclic]

Cloyd actually has a pretty impressive .226/.314/.258 minor league hitting line.

Posted by: DH Phils

Also known as a Mini Mart hot streak

[CN]

And Wheels commits his 3rd Fashion Error of the year, lowering his percentage to .976 in 129 games.

[wes covington's ghost]

Before they address 3rd and 2nd , getting Tbag off the air should be priority one. He should be calling the trotters at state fairs.

[GTown_Dave]

Cyclic: Martinez is never that hot.

[Iceman]

Never having seen the guy pitch before, I think NEPP's Livan comparison sounds about right.

This is basically an AAAA line-up. A few ML guys and some in-betweeners. He's not exactly mowing them down.

Good news is he has a month to get acclimated.

[NEPP]

Just looked in the bullpen and they've got RJ Swindle warming up...he'll be a nice change of pace from Cloyd.

[CN]

@NEPP: Completely understandable. If only more of us were so fortunate.