Saturday chat: Uncertain times for fringe Phillies

Joe Blanton, who has pitched well lately, takes the hill in what could be his last start as a Phillie. Scouts are reportedly watching.

Friday's loss, unusually ugly as is was, supported the claim that the Phillies are what they are, and that's a team that has beaten the Diamondbacks, Cubs, Rockies, Astros, Brewers, Twins, Padres and Cardinals in head-to-head sets. They've lost to everyone else, including every team in their division, quite badly. At 45-55, and in danger of ending the weekend having lost more ground in the playoff race, they turn to their right-handed inning devourer to even the series tonight at 7:10 from Turner Field.

Two additional pieces of news, both coming from Howard Eskin's morning interview with Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. The Phils may be forced to consider picking up Placido Polanco's mutual option next season for several reasons, suggesting both a lack of internal and external options and payroll limitations. Polly would earn a manageable $5.5 million or receive a $1 million buyout. Amaro also suggested the Phils are counting on Domonic Brown to fill one of their outfield vacancies in 2013. He also discussed keeping Shane Victorino and getting draft pick considerations; it sounds like there's no chance he'll be back.

Scouts on hand: Jim Salisbury lists the Reds, Pirates, Dodgers and Giants as clubs "peeking in" on Victorino and the Phillies lately. Hunter Pence is also on the table. Meanwhile, the Orioles and Blue Jays are scouting Blanton tonight in Atlanta. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Iceman]

Is it sad I'm rooting for Blanton to have a great outing only so he'll dupe another team into making a trade for him?

I know Cloyd isn't projected to be an effective starter in the majors, but I'd much rather watch him get a shot than watch this guy play out the last string of meaningless games on one of the worst contracts for the team during this run of success.

[Bake McBride was Here]

Wonder what the scouts thought of that.

[GTown_Dave]

Wow. Lookin' good defensively again tonight.

[Iceman]

At the same time, I wonder how I've developed such a dislike for Blanton given what he did for the team in '08. Under that same principle, I've vigorously defended Lidge despite the fact that they were both useless after that year.

Also, I echo what others were saying a few days ago about Vic leaving. I know the only real smart thing to do is to trade him. But I'll be pretty crushed. One of the best values in team history and involved in a ton of important moments for the team over the past several years.

[gjs]

@Iceman: I'm with you.

[Luis]

Rube should of been working on Pollys replacement long ago.

[Bake McBride was Here]

I too will be sad to see Victorino go, and also, for largely sentimental reasons, I suppose, Blanton.

[Jack]

I'm going to laugh if Polanco is the starting 3B again going into next season.

Do you see why some of us are skeptical about this team being able to compete going forward? The guy can't hit and can't stay healthy.

Have to sell now. Victorino, Blanton and Pierre all should be moved within the next couple of days. I don't understand why you would keep them and get nothing in return for them leaving.

[Jack]

And I agree that it's sad to see these guys get traded. No doubt about it. Victorino was a huge part of the best Phillies teams of my lifetime.

But it's also sad to see the same guys struggle to stay 10 games below .500.

[The Hook]

Dom brown another RBI double. It's getting time boys.

[GTown_Dave]

Luis is absolutely right. And if the Phillies pick up Polanco's option it will be the General Managerial equivalent of the ball that went right through Fontenot last night, both pathetic & inexcusable.

[Iceman]

Jack- what are your thoughts of going after Headley?

[GTown_Dave]

Kratz should be the backup catcher entering next season.

[can_of_corn]

Someone mentioned this earlier in the week, but it would be nice to try out Kratz at 3B.

[Bake McBride was Here]

If this were, say, 2006, there'd already be a Kratz's-Bats pod of fans at home games.

[GTown_Dave]

Bake: And '06 was a far better season than this one.

[Jack]

Iceman: Skeptical.

I like Headley. He's obviously been underrated because of PETCO, although at this point, I just have no idea how he'd perform if consistently out of there. I imagine a lot better than his home numbers, but I don't take his road numbers as a guarantee of what he'd do (see Adrian Gonzalez).

But I'd prefer to get a guy who becomes our Headley under team control for a bunch of years than to pay out the ass for him in his final two years of team control. That's what we did with Pence, and I am not really sure it's the right road to go down again. Its frankly not even a better strategy than overpaying for big FAs-- in that case, all you're losing is money. When you trade for guys in their last couple years before FA, you're paying in both money and prospects, and you end up with either nothing to show for it in two years or you have to pony up anyway to keep the guy.

[buy sell]

in LV -- Werth Rehabing 0-2

Domo - 2 double - ( rbi)

Based on KJ performance so far to night-- he wont be traded...

[Bake McBride was Here]

"And '06 was a far better season than this one."

And that was with Sal Fasano on the team.

[Jack]

Most recent speculation has Victorino possibly to the Pirates for Brad Lincoln, who has had a decent year in the Pirates bullpen.

Consider me underwhelmed. I would rather get an actual prospect than just a relief pitcher, even if the bullpen has been an issue this year.

Then again, I also don't think the Phils are going to contend next year, and Amaro does. Which is why he would be looking for a short-term fix like a right-handed middle reliever instead of trying to build long-term. So I understand what he's doing, and I also recognize that Victorino can't really be expected in this market to bring back a legit top prospect anyway.

[Will Schweitzer]

What do we have to offer San Diego to compete with other teams who are interested in Headley? Why are we wasting time debating the pros and cons when there is virtually zero chance of it happening?

Polanco returning wouldn't shock me one bit. What choice do they have? I know there are plenty of folks who like to stick their head in the sand on this, but they're operating on a budget. Keeping Hamels means we're going to have to accept a lot of mediocrity (and worse) elsewhere on this club...probably for at least two or three seasons.

[J. Weitzel]

Brad Lincoln isn't a free agent until 2018 and would be the Phillies' 8th inning guy right now. Opponents with a .395 OPS against Lincoln in the 8th this season. Pirates reportedly said no to Lincoln for Vic swap, and I certainly can see why.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I remember the BL days when Matt Holliday's home/away stats were overanalyzed to the point where the idea of acquiring him was universally rejected on here.

Lincoln would be a decent pickup, as far as relievers are concerned. Not as exciting as getting a potential impact prospect, of course.

[GTown_Dave]

I believe the Phils still have a chance to compete in '13 (though not so much after), albeit only if r00b doesn't continue to foul up w/ practically every decision he makes. The team needs a new 3B, a better OF addition than Brown & a bullpen piece or two.

Of course I have almost no faith he'll actually make those moves, esp. in light of the contract recently awarded to Hamels, but that's another issue altogether.

[Jack]

That said, if the idea of trading Pence is to acquire bullpen help, Amaro should be fired immediately.

It's one thing to get anything you can for Shane, who is gone next year anyway. But Pence, for all his flaws, is still a good player and the best RF option we have for next season. The idea of trading him to improve the bullpen is insane. A downgrade in everyday RF is worse than any upgrade in the bullpen would be good.

A trade of Pence has to be for at least one serious piece to build around going forward for this franchise.

[bullit]

damn. i see the braves signed third baseman terry tiffee away from the barnstormers on july 13. so much for that idea.

[Bake McBride was Here]

2-run HR by P. Wiggly coming up.

[Jack]

JW: Lincoln is pitching out of his mind this season. Huge jump on K rate, big decrease in walk rate, and he's getting somewhat lucky as well.

If the improvements are real--then sure, I see him as a legit reliever going forward. If not, he's just a righty arm. Question is whether you see him as a Ryan Madson, who continues to improve each year as a reliever after being switched from starter, or whether he's just a guy like Chad Durbin having the year of his life in 08.

And to say he would be the Phillies 8th inning guy this season borders on damning with the faintest of all possible praises.

[Iceman]

Schweitzer- I didn't address you because I don't care what you think. You don't have to discuss Headley if you don't want to.

[J. Weitzel]

Pitching out of his mind or not, I'd say a guy like Lincoln is preferable to the following options: 1). Ancient wonders like Chad Qualls, Jose Contreras and Danys Baez via free agency. 2). Young nothings like Michael Schwimer and BJ Roseberg. 3). Whatever is left in Michael Stutes and David Herndon's respective arms.

[Iceman]

Yeah, I think JW is right here. You can't say you want Vic traded no matter what and then turn up your nose at a guy that would immediately fill a need for the team (and be under control for five seasons).

Whether or not you think they'll compete next year is kind of irrelevant.

[buy sell]

Dont forget the restocked pitcher JC Ramierz who has givgen the lead back to the Chiefs..

bluntly - he stinks

[J. Weitzel]

Bullpen is a huge, huge issue, and it's a 2013 issue. Forget about this season, because it's already too late, in large part because the bullpen is so bad.

[buy sell]

* s/be given

[aksmith]

Blanton is throwing the ball exceptionally well tonight. And has been doing so recently.

If he is traded, he can definitely help a contender this year. He should bring back something real. At least a B+ prospect.

Vic needs to go. Love the guy. He has been one of my favorite players. But giving him 12 mil next season is unthinkable. Much too much, and I truly believe he'd accept arbitration in a heartbeat.

And Pence, watching him play every day, is such a horribly flawed player that I don't see the need to pay him that much money and keep him for one more season. He's an average fielder because of the lapses. He's a hitter who disappeared at the end of last season and all of this season every time the team needed him to step up. Not a track record for a player getting paid as much as he will. If they can get one serious piece in a trade, he just has to go.

[J. Weitzel]

JC Ramirez in 2009 - perfect example of the type of prospect the Phillies go after. And probably the level of prospect you'd get for Vic. You'd rather have Ramirez, or Aumont, than Lincoln, who is succeeding in the Majors right now?

[The Hook]

Time to throw the white flag up at park and put the for sale sign in front of park. Shane Juan Joe and taking offers on dense.

[Jack]

I agree I'd rather have Lincoln than nothing.

So if that's all I could get, fine. But a relief pitcher isn't the only thing I'd be out there looking for.

Bullpen isn't even necessarily an issue next year. It's so random back there. Seriously. Last year the bullpen was very good. This year it's very awful. Only thing that changed was we replaced Madson with Papelbon, who was better. We got stuck with injuries and bad performance. Next year, who knows. It really is that random.

Teams get in trouble when they're always trying to fix the last problem, instead of just focusing on building the best overall team possible.

[Chris "Wheels" Wheeler]

Give the Nose a bucket.

[GTown_Dave]

3). Whatever is left in Michael Stutes and David Herndon's respective arms.

And you can damn well bet we'll have ample opportunity to discover how poor Stutes & Herndon can be, as r00b & Co. seem loathe to part w/ their ilk.

Good hands, Ryan.

[GBrettfan]

Errors. Grrr. Stupid.

[denny b.]

"Blanton is throwing the ball exceptionally well tonight. And has been doing so recently.

If he is traded, he can definitely help a contender this year. He should bring back something real. At least a B+ prospect."

This is Joe Blanton, we are talking about, right???

He's Joe Blanton. He'll throw a couple of good games and then get his head handed to him for a few weeks.

He's a league average 4th starter, who is vastly overpaid. He's no more then that. And never will be.

To see the level of interest in the current Phils of 2012, we are in the 7th inning of a game and there are only 38 comments here.

[GBrettfan]

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Ty Wigginton now 2 for his last 28. At least he's playing solid defense.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettfan: You know it's that kind of year when even the writers get obviously snarky.

[GBrettfan]

GTown - Yes, I noticed that sometime in June, they started being snarky.

[GBrettfan]

So this is going to be one of those nights when we DO get good SP but can't muster even 3 runs. And still have crappy, infuriating defense.

[GTown_Dave]

Why on God's green earth would Chooch be appearing in this game AT ALL, even just to PH?

Charlie's a friggin' boob.

[can_of_corn]

Still waiting for TBag to get snarky, however.

You know, I honestly don't mind losing if it is an overall well-played game
with even a few good moments. But we are rolling over and playing dead. The Braves aren't even breaking a sweat.

[denny b.]

Dave-

Its OK. He wants to save Frandsen for extra innings.

Plus, I heard Savery caught in little league, so he could always come in and catch.

[J. Weitzel]

Phillies did aaight by Blanton if this is indeed his last start. Would be a good addition for a contender the next two months, just like he was for the Phils in '08. Can see him with the Orioles. Phils should get some quality back for him.

[bay_area_phan]

Tonight's game serves as a gentle reminder that our offense really does suck, a point which seems to have been forgotten amidst all the problems with our pitching. 1 run and 4 hits against a pitcher who entered the game with a 5.49 ERA.

[GBrettfan]

How many well-played games, win or lose, have we had this year, I wonder?

[GBrettfan]

Nice play, Jimmy.

[J. Weitzel]

Can see Blanton, Victorino moved before deadline. Pierre and Wigginton eased to a team during the waiver trade period. Pence would be on the table this winter, but most likely kept. Phils will look to compete again in 2013.

[Bake McBride was Here]

Time for the Phillies-done-bad-again face:

>>>:(

[Rich]

sell sell sell

[Rich]

anemic pitiful offense

[Rich]

don,t even bother batting against kimbrel

[GBrettfan]

Ryan Howard. Can't live with him, can't live without him.

[aksmith]

Bastardo's fastball velocity has been slowly sinking over the last two seasons. I wonder what that means.

[can_of_corn]

Ha. Well maybe I don't need well-played, but at least it is nice when the players seem to have more energy than I do sitting on my couch.

I'm almost tempted to switch to beach volleyball, which has to get the award for Most Prime-Time Minutes for a Sport Nobody Cares About. It is basically a 3-hour lead-in to Phelps.

[Rich]

howard is not even worth 5 million let alone 25 million

[bfpsu]

I see Howard brought his "A" game tonight on defense.

[wes covington's ghost]

And there it is...Howard's classic throw to second..smooth as silk

[J. Weitzel]

"They don't make plays" says Wheels. Problem all season. Couldn't agree more. Another big reason they're about to be 11 under .500.

[Rich]

howard can absolutely NOT hit lefties

[gjs]

I admit it. I just don't know what to do with this team.

I feel like they've sprung leaks in more places than management can plug.

[aksmith]

Watching Ryan make throws from first gives ME the yips. Honestly, he is the worst I've ever seen. The only improvement in his throwing is that most of his awful throws don't involve the left field wall anymore.

[Rich]

howard is the worst contract in MLB

[GBrettfan]

I don't know why this game feels out of reach when it's only a 1-run lead for the Braves. Well, so far, that is.

[GTown_Dave]

b_a_p: You're liable to get a lot of argument on that statement, but I agree. The offense hasn't been as bad as I expected, but when it shuts down it shuts down completely.

[Iceman]

They've gotten to Kimbrel a few times recently.

But by all means, just give up now.

[Rich]

here comes a HR

[buy sell]

Next yr -- we will have hopefully
Lisalverto Bonilla comes back healthy -- and in the ML pen...

BTW JCR gave up 4 runs... AND now has lusty ERA of 7.06 @ LV

[GBrettfan]

On top of which, for some reason, I neglected to turn the radio on and am therefore listening to Wheels & TMac. They aren't improving my baseball mood.

[Rich]

let the firesale bein already

[bay_area_phan]

"Ryan Howard. Can't live with him, can't live without him."

Actually, the Phillies could live without him just fine if they had another, say, $25M to spend on a replacement.

[GBrettfan]

I like that Jimmy not only caught that, but immediately handed it off to a Phillies fan.

[aksmith]

LA sounds like he's been drinking on the radio. But he always sounds that way.

I wonder if baserunners on first against the Phils should just take off for second when any pitcher throws over. It's very likely most of them will be standing safely on second in short order. No messy slides back into first.

[can_of_corn]

Yep. No way we win this. The team doesn't thInk we can win it either.

[bfpsu]

"Howard is the worst contract in MLB"

Hampered by the shift
Bad defensively
Neutralized by late inning lefty relievers
Coming off a severe injury

Maybe not the worst-(Vernon Welles) but it's up there

[GTown_Dave]

Actually, the Phillies could live without him just fine if they had another, say, $25M to spend on a replacement.

Well at least r00b didn't just go out & throw another lengthy, $20+ million/year deal at yet another starting pitcher ...

Awwww, crap.

[Bake McBride was Here]

I disagree that tonight's reminder of the badness of the offense has been gentle.

[aksmith]

You forgot: Neutralized by lefty starters.

[EastFallowfield]

Does anyone have an opinion if the Phils can make the playoffs this year? Haven't really read much talk about that.

[aksmith]

If the Phillies put Howard on waivers, and made it known they don't want anything in return, is there any team in baseball that picks him up?

[Iceman]

BAP- do you happen to remember what your opinion on the Howard contract was at the time it was announced?

[wes covington's ghost]

Good eye Jimmy.

[Meyer]

Jimmy was this close to popping that pitch up to an infielder.

[can_of_corn]

Once the sell-off begins en masse, I wonder how Phillies marketing will try to continue to fill the seats. Any attempts will ring hollow.

I could get very sad about saying goodbye to some of these guys, Vic especially. But the overall irritation with the entire team is precluding any sorrow for now.

[wes covington's ghost]

Come on Chase, let Ryno make the last out.

[Meyer]

Say Craig Kimbrel fast 3 times.

[gjs]

The staggering amount one-run losses is a team-wide defect that speaks to problems much deeper than simply a weak bullpen.

[Chris "Wheels" Wheeler]

No base runners in the last 5 innings. They fought and clawed and did everything they could to try and win this game. You can't fault the effort.

[GTown_Dave]

Entirely pitiful display tonight. Utterly lifeless.

[Iceman]

Some questionable strikes there to Chase.

Well, at least we won't have to worry about Amaro holding out hope and standing pat.

[kuvasz]

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

this team smells like formaldehyde

[Rich]

two low strikes given to kimbrel

[GBrettfan]

Is it fun to play spoiler to playoff-hopeful teams?

Somehow I have a feeling we'll even stink at that.

[Rich]

team full of useless pathetic garbage