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Thursday, July 19, 2012

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Encouraging, I guess?

At least there's a contingency plan. Cole's come awfully far through 2012 to not be tempted to test FA.

Jim Salisbury on CSN thinks the Phils are run by 'really smart people' and 'they have really have had a plan all along with Hamels.'

I have no idea about the 1st qualifier but the 2nd qualifier strikes me as a BS one.

Doesn't think that Lee's no-trade clause to 21 teams isn't a stumbling block to moving Lee?

Salisbury normally doesn't say so many puzzling things.

Salisbury probably knows more than he is letting on

I think it would be absolutely hilarious if they re-signed Hamels and then traded away Lee hours later.

A six-year deal being "a first for any starter in Phillies history." This so-called rule is often cited but not too strictly enforced. When exactly did the Phils apply their so-called no-more-than-three-years rule? Maybe they claimed with Doc it was an unbending rule, but they broke it with him. Broke it again with Lee. Certainly not applying it to Hamels. Can hardly say it applied to Blanton -- he wouldn't get any longer a deal anywhere. Not much of a rule at all it seems.

TTI - Maybe but I could see that exchange (signing Hamels to a crazy deal) and trading Lee working out pretty poorly for the Phils.

It would also show they didn't have a long-term plan at all when they signed Lee last offseason either. Amaro is just spending money like a drunken fool without enough though on building out a budget under the luxury tax threshold.

Salisbury: "Tyson Gillies has been suspended for violation of team rules, Double A Reading club has announced."


Wouldn't you know it,Lincecum back to form just in time for the Phils. Let's hope it was a 1 game thing.
I'd trade Brown for Headley in a second. After Rube gives Pierre a 2 year contract where is Dom going to play?

Where is Dom playing now? Never read about him, think he's missed half the season with injuries and he certainly didn't impress anyone with his brief big league appearance last year. No way you get anything of value for him.

Either Hamels or Lee is going to get moved before July 31st. That I think we can all agree on.

Silver lining:

2nd Lee trade trade haul can't possibly be as bad as the 1st one.

Decent shot the Phils traded an ace and will not get a single meaningful contribution from Ramirez, Gillies, and Aumont at the MLB level.

MG: I have to think that it would be hard for Amaro to trade Lee again and maintain legitimacy as GM. They would have to spin it as the "restocking the farm" angle yet again, right?

Having said that, I can't imagine a scenario where that happens unless the phils are so blown away by an offer for him that its a PR layup.

The only way trading Lee makes any sense at all is if the Phillies pay $0.00 of his remaining salary. Otherwise, what was the point?

Did Salisbury do a new piece? Because the one I read from earlier today didn't say anything about trading Lee. Just to offer Hamels Lee's AAV in a contract (+ 1 yr. more).

Greg - Moving Lee is going to be challenging in and of itself but if Amero moves Lee or even JRoll he is going to look like a fool. Just a bigger fool with Lee.

Going to be hard for Amaro to downplay concerns that he didn't have a long-term plan for Hamels & scrambled to make something happen so here was here long-term.

According to CSN

Our favorite prospect Gillies was suspended for violating team rules...

GBrettfan - Salisbury mentioned it tonight on CSN tonight when he was asked about the possibility of trading Lee.

Am I the only one who thinks the Phillies will find a way to sign Hamels while keeping Lee & Halladay, but at the expense of making no significant upgrades in the bullpens, OF or 3B? r00b's gonna keep Cole, cry injuries & bad luck, & do it all over again in '13.

MG: The JRoll talk is even worse. Moving a top 10 player at a premium position, yet claiming to be a 2013 contender, is simply incongruent.

And if anyone is seriously going to reference Galvis as comparable, I have a lovely nice and shiny backup QB I'd like to sell you...

Thanks, MG. I think I did read a day or two ago that the Rangers might be targeting Lee as consolation prize if they can't acquire Hamels (and maybe Greinke?).

Problem with moving Lee is that it likely going to take a fair amount of money structured over a few years and I wonder how willing they would to do it.

The one guy before he got hurt that I seriously wanted them consider moving was Halladay. Out the window now given his health status but he would have been a lot easier to move & likely gotten the Phils a better return.

Enough with the dumb idea of trading Halladay MG. Only thing worse than a GM with no plan (Amaro fits into this category, I agree) is one with an idiotic plan.

Teams inquiring about Lee are hoping to buy low. Amaro should not fall for that trap. Lee had some down games and does have a ridiculously high salary but if Phillies want to compete in the short term Lee should not be traded.

Hamels is heading to FA so trading him is really only impacting the 2nd half of this season. Getting a prospect for him then seeing what he is worth in FA makes sense. If he will not accept a 'team friendly' deal then Phillies are just competing with the rest of baseball anyway.
I'd almost like to see Phillies sign Grienke to a 25% smaller deal (hoping the spotlight stigma hurts his value) over the winter as he would look quite nice as a #3 starter.

Sorry Gtown- didn't see your 618 post..

Gotta stick with Halladay. IF the injury was only a lat strain, he's as likely to be as dominant as ever next year. If the Phils could really get two stud prospects for Hamels, I'd be willing to go with Halladay, Lee, Worley, blah, blah (not KK) next year. That would leave a few bucks to upgrade the pen and maybe one or two other spots. And it would open the door to pick up a few reclamation projects on the cheap for the back end of the rotation.

As someone pointed out yesterday, Jonathan Sanchez, if healthy, might look good out of the pen given a chance. Low risk, low dollars, high reward type of move.

And if they can really get those prospects for Hamels and reacquire him in free agency, that would be fine, too. Half a meaningless season of Hamels lost and some talent to show for it. Worth thinking about.

I don't think he will trade Lee (or Hamels, as dennyb firmly states), but if he does, Amaro is admitting, "Guys, I don't plan things more than five in advance of when I actually do them. Sorry."

He's already sort of admitting it with the way he's handling this Hamels thing. And we all sort of suspected it with the way he signed Lee out of nowhere and offered Papelbon that absurd contract without the slightest bit of negotiation. But trading a guy that you signed to a $120 million contract eighteen months ago- in order to accommodate the contract of another pitcher THAT YOU KNEW was going to require that type of deal to keep- is straight-up fantasy baseball. It's how I manage my fantasy team.

For those of you that watch Breaking Bad, I'd rather have my GM come from the Gus school of planning- anticipating everything four steps in advance. Rube comes from the Walter White school of GMs- make impulsive decisions to CYA in the immediate, no matter the fact that in the end, it's gonna catch up to you.

Phx - He'd look nice as a #3 starter providing he could handle Philly fans.

To quote from my favorite TV show:

"I see it all the time...Talented cats...Spotlight comes on - Pah! - He shrinks up. Can't everybody handle the big-time. It's all good."


But anyway, won't Greinke be expensive, too? Less so than Hamels, perhaps, but I wonder what the Phillies will do to replace Hamels. Will they still focus on SP? Or decide to spread the money around to other areas?

Oops. Provided. Not providing.

Kind of funny, Iceman, we both referenced a TV show within a minute of each other in baseball posts.

I think the $$$ is more than fair, and -- perhaps they can bump it up ever so slighty - to 144, & then he rejects it, then he ain't worth keeping..

I guess the concept of 100's of millions of $$ to play a kids game...is a bit ofensive.

But that is the world of today's sports. So if the offer is 144, and he wants 160, and phillies say no, he would be leaving over the difference of 10 or 15 more, to me, CH is being a bit of a pig.. Negotiate means just that - both side give a little -

I guess the fact that I am a current statistic of today's economy makes me cynical, and i worry little if CH earns 130 , 144 or 160.. I think somehow he will survive,,

Out

Lee is not being traded. Neither is Halladay. I'm almost as convinced that Rollins isn't going anywhere either.

The rest is just silly talk. Let's have it, but let's also recognize it for what it is.

* offensive

Hamels is going to the Dodgers because Stan Katzman over paid for Werth and he will for Hamels,also

The gravest error is Paps for $50M. Now way in hell a closer is worth that much and he's proving them right.

That sucks about Gillies because he was starting to show some promise there in Reading this season. Was running out a .291/.372/.434/.806 slash line with 13 walks and 31 strikeouts. Also had swiped 7 bases so far and only had 2 errors in 105 chances.

pap's deal, by itself, is a firing offense. and by comparison, makes me feel downright sanguine about howard's contract.

If they trade Lee again no free agent will want to come here anymore. The whole perception that this is an organization that treats players right will be out the window. Won't happen.

If Gillies ever got his head out his ass (and could stay healthy) he might actually turn into a viable ML OFer.

Too bad he's basically pissed his entire career away over the past 2+ years.

Did Gillies accept another ride from a cop with a bag of coke in his pocket?

If they trade Lee again no free agent will want to come here anymore. The whole perception that this is an organization that treats players right will be out the window. Won't happen.
Posted by: Timr | Thursday, July 19, 2012 at 08:41 PM

...until the Phils offer the biggest contract, and then they won't be able to sign fast enough.

All these horsesh8t rumors are bullsh8t filler. All the real decision makers are vacationing where the sun always shines.

The Gillies suspension is "indefinite".

Sounds like he ain't coming back.

Indefinite? Wow, that is highly unusual. Wonder what it's about.

Phillies probably could have nabbed Doug Fister in an even swap for Lee. Gillies - one down and two to go.

@JSalisburyCSN: Gillies suspension is for violating team policy. Hearing it is not related to his previous problems. More missed development time not good.

so it's not blow.

I wish I could remember who I made the bet with about Gillies being the best player in that trade. Might've been aksmith, but he wouldn't man up in any event.

His monster numbers at High Desert blew a lot of people, especially Jack, away. But that park was the most ridiculous hitters park in baseball and his numbers before and since haven't come close.

Aumont was wrecked from jump when the Phillies insisted he could be a starter and tried to teach him new pitches. He had a nice season last year, once back in the 'pen, but his control, never great, seems to be getting worse. I believe he's a 6-year minor league free agent after this season if the Phillies don't keep him on the 40-man.

Finally, Ramirez, who I thought had the highest ceiling on the bunch, has now labored for 7 seasons in search of a breakout year. He's 23 and if it doesn't happen soon, it ain't happenin.

Was he sharing Freddy Galvis' medicine?

clout, theres still a good chance that Gillies will be the best of the 3...not that that is a positive. It just means it was a really terrible trade.

There's still a good shot that Aumont and Ramirez will make it to the Majors and lose some games which will make Gillies "more valuable" by comparison.

NEPP: Anything's possible, but I'll stick with one of the pitchers ending up more useful.

Clout: We debated those players a lot back then.

Gillies' problem hasn't been an inability to play well--it's been an inability to play at all. I never thought he would put up the numbers he put up at High Desert, obviously. What I did think was that he could be a plus defensive CF with decent OBP skills and good speed on the basepaths. He has been that when he's played--he just hasn't been able to stay healthy or out of trouble, which neither of us did or could have predicted at the time.

Ramirez is terrible. Aumont has shown enough that they will put him on the 40-man after this season, I'm pretty confident about that.

I fully expect both Ramirez and Aumont to make it to the majors and then suck horribly.

I'd almost rather they just flameout in AAA than deal with that.

Clout - I did indeed feel that Gillies would be the best player in the trade. Nothing to man up about, since I never liked the trade and neither did anyone else. And if it weren't for the injuries, I think I would have been right. May still be. But then, you probably knew he would be injury prone. Because you're Cloutius Maximus, the man who knows all and sees all.

If you listen to the first hand reports of Gillies he seems to be quite a talented player who can't stay on the field. Not the "High Desert" created no talent you always said, and said again today, he is.

By the way, that last sentence of mine shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of Aumont as a "savior" or anything (not that Clout would do that).

I frankly don't think he's ever going to fix his command/control issues. But all I was saying was that he's shown enough from the Phillies' point of view for them to protect him on the 40-man.

i can't blame gillies for getting a concussion in a colision with juwan james. james does seem to play defense full bore, judging from his amazing catch the other night.

So I've been bored tonight and trying to see how the Phillies can swing some things to resign Hamels and still field a competitive team. I should warn you- this post will be long...so scroll down now if you don't want to read it.

Obviously next year will be tough with the luxury tax threshold still at 178 million. The following year it goes up to 189 million which makes it a little easier and in 2014 a lot of things could change roster wise.

- Halladay has an option where he needs to meet 3 criteria to vest for 2014. He needs 225 innings in 2013 AND 415 in 2012-2013. He currently has 77 with approximately 14 starts to go. If he goes 8 innings in each of those starts he will finish with ~181 innings. That would mean in 2013 he needs to pitch 234 innings which is going to be tough considering he average 235 over a 162 game schedule. It will be close.

- Utley is off the books in 2014.


I think we need to accept that in 2013 the bullpen is going to be young again. You are probably looking at ideally (at least in their mind) Papelbon, Bastardo, Diekman, Stutes, Schwimer, maybe Herndon and then a veteran guy or two to battle the young guys for spots.

In the outfield Vic is either going to be replaced by Brown or some other free agent signed. Also, Mayberry and Nix are going to be here next year too.

It also seems clear that Vic and Pence are who they are looking to trade. I am not a Pence fan but he is probably their best asset at the deadline because he is under team control for another year and a team can trade for him and then offer him arbitration at the end of 2013 and get compensation should he sign elsewhere. I know Pence is our best right handed bat but let's assume he could bring back a third base guy to play for us next year- would you do that? Especially knowing you have Brown in the minors who you need to see what you have. I also think it will be easier get 80-90% of Pence's production than it will be to replace Hamels production in the rotation. It is also easier to replace an outfielder than it is a third baseman in the upcoming free agent class. I do wonder if Texas would do a Pence for Olt deal and maybe we could swing something to have them throw in Borbon who is really the odd man out in the outfield there in Texas.

I will say this- there are no easy answers and signing Hamels will shrink the margin of error for Amaro for the next year or two. I don't know if I feel comfortable with Amaro being the guy putting that together.

scroll past a TTI post? not on your life. it's precisely the kind of eye/brain candy i come here for.

TTI- agree with your entire post, especially the parts about moving Pence and not being comfortable with Amaro forcing himself to be creative as a result of signing Cole. He has yet to show the ability to do that as GM.

I can see a scenario where Halladay, who clearly operates under the idea that he is already set for life, comes back at yet another reduced rate after he fails to meet his option. It fits what we know of his character. But if you're MG, you're just happy to have that bum off the books.

First - TTI, that was a long post? You must not read many of your own posts. That was concise and to the point.

And as for Doc coming back at a reduced salary, I could see it under only one circumstance. If the Phillies are still winning. The entire reason he came to the Phillies on a reasonable contract was to play on a team with a shot to go to the WS every year. If they don't have that shot, I can see him moving on. If they have a good chance, I think he'd stay for a little less.

aksmith: I had no idea he'd be injury prone. Just wasn't as wildly impressed with his High Desert numbers as you were. Thought the pitchers both had higher ceilings.

TTI
Did you think that up when your penis was stuck in the jacuzzi jet again at the gym?

Clout - Your assumption that I was taken with his numbers was always incorrect. I was taken with his ability. A singles hitter with speed doesn't benefit in High Desert like a power hitter does. But we had this discussion back then. Not surprised you would choose to once again mischaracterize the discussion. And of course, "wildly impressed" is your take on things. Again, hyperbole on your part. Don't you ever get tired of strawmen? Seriously, it's beneath all of us. If you have to win an argument by exaggerating and misstating the other person's position, then what have you really won?

I see both Halladay and Hamels as home boys. Great read TTI.

ak- agree with that. His return would be contingent upon the team being competitive next year.

Even so, the guy doesn't owe the team anything. That still won't stop Rube from asking him for another discount because he screwed up the budget.

The Beerleaguer Field of Dreams will be built in the Exalted High Desert.

is it a discount for an older, more past his prime halliday? shouldn't his salary go down?

So we really think Rube is going to try to satisfy Hamels at the moment Hamels has maximum leverage? Rube's primary skill may be writing big checks, but surely it's not his only skill(?)

Rube is not without any skill. He did, afterall, engineer the first trade for Cliff Lee, when Toronto was asking for the moon for Doc. That was a great trade. But he hasn't made many great ones since besides the subsequent Doc trade and Lee kerfuffle.

aksmith: Really? A singles hitter gets no advantage in a park like that? Check the batting averages of non-power hitters in that park versus other parks. Or check how many doubles and singles were hit in Coors vs. other parks in pre-humidor days.

But I will bow to your assertion that you were taken with his "ability" rather than his High Desert stats. Since you claim to0 not read scouting reports, I'm not sure how you measured his "ability," but whatever floats your boat.

aksmith: That was about 75% of a compliment you gave me. Do you need to take a bath after that? :)

Halladay coming back at a reduced rate in 2014 would be interesting. At that point he will be almost 37- what kind of rate does he command? Also, at that point- is someone from the minors ready to come up and contribute?

Clout - I do not claim to not read scouting reports. I do not subscribe to any scouting reports. There is a difference. I often to go to websites of people who frequent minor league games. And I do go to some, although not this year, minor league games here in Vegas.

I would not crow about your prediction of this trade, since it was always a bad trade from the get go. And secondly, it's still very possible that you were wrong. And third, there may have been no right answer. None of the three might pan out at all.

Clout: In 67 games in low-a ball, before being promoted to High Desert, Gillies hit .313/.439/.427. In 44 games this year at AA, he hit .291/.372/.434.

The idea that he could project to be a decent offensive player, with average and good OBP and speed, is not solely a product of High Desert-inflated numbers.

Your point is well taken that context needs to be considers in evaluating these things, but that's your problem--your argument lacks nuance too. You simply say because he played in High Desert, his numbers are meaningless and thus he must not have ever been a good player. But that's just as ignorant as saying his High Desert stats mean he was destined to be a star.

By almost any evaluation, scouting report, or numbers, the guy had (has) major-league potential. His career has seemingly been derailed by health and off-field issues. If you predicted that, well, then, my hat is off to you.

Is isolated OBP a statistic? If not, I'm making it up (OBP-AVG). Gillies had an impressive .089 at High Desert. That doesn't seem like something that would get a ton of juice from the ballpark, and was something he's shown at every level, including AA (.070).

Plus-plus defense in CF and plus plate discipline is probably enough to be at least a 4th outfielder, even absent any other tools. I think Gillies is still the most likely of the 3 to become a significant MLB contributor (not saying much). It doesn't look like it'll be here.

I swear Gillies was thought of as a high-character guy when we traded for him. I remember reading a couple of human interest stories about his deafness that suggested as much.

Our minors is going to suck for a few years

Are the top teams really that concerned that Hamels is not going to get them a late first round draft pick?
Does any playoff team really consider that part of a trade? I understand the player/draft pick is an asset but with so many 1st rounders amounting to nothing I do not see those picks being discussed in retrospect. (Like, the Rangers got 2 months of Lee, Mark Lowe, Kevin Matthews, and Zachary Cone for Justin Smoak, Blake Bleaven, Josh, Leuke, and Matthew Lawson.)

I guess I would be surprised if Angels or Tigers would not see Hamels as their shot at a title. Rangers might need to enter the fray just to keep him from their competitors. My guess is those teams are just hoping the others do not up the deal by including their #1 prospect. Amaro better hold out for that offer at the final hour and see who flinches. Worst case Phils still get 1st round pick.

Jack: You're murdering the strawmen lately. I never said Gillies "must not have ever been a good player."

What I said was I wasn't as impressed with his High Desert #s as you and others were and that I thought the pitchers in the deal had higher ceilings.

Gillies was a 25th round pick for a reason and he was a grade C prospect under Sickels' grading system for a reason.

But I'm sure you and aksmith know better, so I'll defer to your superior expertise.

PhxPhilly: The issue is that they changed how you can handle guys you trade for in the new CBA. Under the old system you would trade for someone and then offer them arbitration and get draft picks if they sign elsewhere. This year you can't do that. But you could trade for someone that has time left and then offer them arbitration after the last year of their deal.

I don't know that it would stop a team from making a move for Hamels but it is something they at least need to consider now.

Is it just me or has Clout been particularly obnoxious the past 3 days? Two years ago some guys say they think Gillies will be the best player out of 3 schlubs we get back in a horrible trade, Clout takes "the field" (the 2 pitchers. . .I remember it as being Ramirez, but now he wants it to be both pitchers because Ramirez has sucked) and then comes back to crow about it even though none has actually done anything yet and Gillies has actually performed better than the other 2 when he can get on the field. Aumont has a 4.5 era and Ramirez a 4.19 both out of the bullpen. Seriously? C'mon Clout, 1st the budgets don't matter then the Diekman thing now your hanging your hat on Aumont & Ramirez? This has not been a strong week for you.

JC Ramirez has no future in MLB. Phils converted him to a reliever last year in a last ditch hope because he struggled as a starter. No surprise since he only really has 2 pitches (4-seam fastball, slider).

Put up mediocre numbers at Reading last year & really struggled at Lehigh as a reliever. I imagine JC Ramirez is back next year but that will be next year to round out the Lehigh bullpen but it would take an utterly decimated bullpen again for him to get a call up.

Aumont has been terrible the last few weeks at Lehigh with outings where he no almost no fastball command. Command in general at Lehigh has been poor. As long as Dubee as the pitching coach here, I don't think Aumont gets called up.

Didn't have to read between the lines the last two spring trainings to realize Dubee thinks very little of Aumont. Been one of the few pitchers I can remember that Dubee has been outright vocal in his criticism of his stuff and mental mental makeup.

If Dubee gets canned this offseason with a new pitching coach in place and the need for cheap bullpen arms, maybe Aumont gets more serious consideration for a roster spot. Speaks volume though in a year where the Phils have been outright desperate for any RH reliever help though & they haven't even hinted at him being called up.

Maybe Aumont comes up and gives the Phils what Wayne Gomes did for a few years - wild and erratic performances as a badly miscast backend bullpen piece on some mediocre/bad Phils' teams.

With the Gillies suspension, my bet is the Phils don't get a meaningful contribution from any of these guys going ahead forward.

I still have nightmares about Wayne Gomes "closing"

Original guy in the Lee trade was Saunders and not Gillies. Phils wanted Gillies over Saunders because they thought he had the higher ceiling:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2010587024_report_michael_saunders_was_or.html

The Phils also could have could have gone with Brendan Morrow too and lesser prospects.

Either way it was a clusterf@ck of a trade. In Saunders, the Phils would have had a 2-3 WAR win player who would have been cost-controlled and could have been plugged in for Vic (even though his defense in leaves a fair amount to be desired in CF).

In Morrow, they would have had a nice bookend middle rotation, cost-controlled stater to pare with Worley. A rotation with Halladay/Lee or Halladay/Hamles with Worley & Morrow would be quite solid going into next season.

Lack of return on the first Lee trade has really, really hurt the Phils already.

Dom Brown hit a homerun last night. If he can stay hot for another 2-3 weeks, I think he will have earned 1st crack at an open OF spot when the team trades somebody.

I admit to being disappointed at the time that they didn't end up with Saunders (Clout, you can check the archives on that one if you want) or Morrow, but neither of them has really blown up into an all-star either. Though as MG points out, they'd have more value than the trio we got.

Saunders still sucks.

Morrow would have been better.

"Doesn't think that Lee's no-trade clause to 21 teams isn't a stumbling block to moving Lee?

Salisbury normally doesn't say so many puzzling things."

I doubt Lee will be moved, but since the Phillies are aware of what teams Lee will go to (without begging for extra $ to waive NTC), I don't think his trade clause is that huge of a stumbling block.

It is probably premature to declare a 23 year old as having "no future in MLB."

My recollection is that Gillies was not a prized prospect before he came to the Phillies. He was not one of the M's top ten according to BA, and Sickels didn't think he was special.

I think it was Benny Looper's eagle eye that convinced the Phils to take Gillies, and the next thing we knew Phuture Phillies named him the Phils' second best prospect.

Gillies has tools like countless prospects. Stir in an apparent ability to draw walks and a little imagination on the part of the fandom. What we then get is the guy who is ready to replace an All-Star CF in 2013 ...

if it weren't for those damn injuries. And, besides all that, he's a great kid who has overcome so much.

If Dom stays healthy he should be up before September 1st and he should play almost everyday and barring disaster be given a starting OF job next year. It is time to find out what he's got. I suspect he'll be a fine player. I've grown tired of the Phillies sitting on guys until they are 24 or 25. As much as we all gripe about missed opportunities post 08, I think the real lost years where the ones Utley and Howard spent in the minors. Neither played a full season until the were 26! Let's not do that to Dom Brown.

TTI - Just making a prediction. What makes it a prediction.

Aumont's command has been terrible past year plus at Lehigh with a BB/9 near 6.

Saunders may suck but he is a cost-controlled asset who might provide a relative value given his salary of 400-500k.

If the Phils sign Hamels, they are going to have to move some salary. If they don't, they still are going to have to sign a FA starter & find ways to get creative to round out the rest of the roster.

One thing killing the Phils going ahead forward in '13 (to a lesser degree in '14) is young players who can contribute modestly at cheap dollars.

Saunders is having an ok year this year. 112 OPS+. He was terrible last year, but he's only 25.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Can confirm @jaysonst report that #Phillies are at 6 years on Hamels. Certain to be above Cain's $127.5M. At $23M average would reach $138M.

If 6-$138m can't keep Hamels from free agency then trade him and make an offer in the off-season. If you have to pay tip top dollar to get him you might as well get a prospect and pay him later rather than now.

Is Gillies snorting coke again? Did we hear what he did wrong?

Jbird: Still waiting for you to describe my views accurately but that assumes you can read and understand, which is a long shot.

In 2045 the Phillies will open a new ballpark at 9th and Jefferson, which by then will be considered part of Center City, Cole Hammels and Jimmy Rollins are on hand to throw out the first pitches and see their statues unveiled. Can't wait.

6 years, 138 million should be enough to get it done. If it's not, at least you tried.

Do not wait until the last minute to decide on this Amaro. Please.

Clout: just extending the same courtesies to you that you give everyone else, I suppose.

lorecore: the rumor I read on Gillies was a out of control and inappropriate(though non-violent) argument with the team bus driver. Don't know if that's the extent of it or even if it's true.

I've made this point before, but since a Hamels' signing may not be far off, I'll make the point again.

Let's say that the parties agree to a six-year $140 million deal. If they were to tack on a $5 million player option for year seven, an option that Hamels would unlikely exercise unless he's injured, the average value of Hamels' contract would be reduced by $3 million for purpose of the luxury tax. As with Rollins' contract, the player option counts in measuring AAV.

derekcarstairs: Your 9:38 post is right on the money.

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