Game chat: Phillies welcome back sorely missed Doc

It's no coincidence the Phillies fell out of contention during the days and weeks they didn't have Roy Halladay. The ace of aces returns to the Phils feeling better than he has since last season tonight in the second of three against the Dodgers. First pitch is 10:10. Charlie Mauel goes with his new, favorite lineup, with Shane Victorino hitting second and Juan Pierre seventh. The Phils will be trying to extend their winning streak to four games. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Juan Pierre sucks. Emptiest .315 average I ever saw. Yeah.

Respect.

<<<

[Jack]

The Blue Jays and Joe Girardi are currently ruining my ability to watch the Phils.

[Iceman]

TTI (from the last thread): I remember being at a bar when the Blanton trade went down. Here is a transcript of what I said that night.

"[censored.] This is [censored] [redacted] [censored]. The type of move a loser franchise makes. [censored]. I hope Gillick [censored] on a railroad spike."

[GTown_Dave]

If this is some sort of pre-trade audition I really couldn't be happier w/ Rollins' performance.

[Steve Jeltz]

Rollins' value will never be higher after that double - trade him now!

[BV2ST]

Fife and Drummed

[The Truth Injection]

Also going through those old threads I see even then I argued with BAP. It's been a helluva four year ride buddy!

FWIW- BAP was pissed that we gave up our best hitting prospect and a solid pitching prospect.

There were also rumors at the time the Phillies were interested in Matt Kemp. Man that would've been sweet.

[MG]

Instead of having Halladay throw a rehab start or two, Phils are going to have him start tonight and have a max pitch count of 70-75 pitches. Basically means 5 IP from Halladay.

KK has pitched poorly in his career at Dodger Stadium and been hit by a few Dodgers' hard including Ethier and Loney. I guess they figure they get as deep as can with Halladay & then have KK come in to pitch 1-2 IP.

'Feel like a loss' tonight.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Yanks/ Jays preempting phils. play by play appreciated. never mind, game over. hopefully get the game now.

[Jack]

Hugh: Yanks game is over but the channel hasn't put Phils on yet. Sometimes when the first game is over, they never end up going to the second game. Seriously.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I broke my Lenovo laptop b/c I pounded it so hard with my fist after hearing about the Blanton trade. Replaced with Macbook. Best thing I ever did.

[fumphis]

What's happening with Yanks/Jays?

[The Truth Injection]

He doesn't get enough credit but Bedrosian's Beard is one of my favorite posters here.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Jack - suspect that is what will happen. meditatively apoplectic

[The Truth Injection]

Yeah- Abreu has a gripe there.

[GTown_Dave]

I think Abreu was right, but that was hilarious nonetheless.

[Jack]

Game is on now, but it's the Philly feed, which sucks. Much better listening to Vin Scully than these garbage broadcasters.

[Iceman]

Abreu batting lead-off. I can't believe there hasn't been a smart-ass comment about this.

Halladay's command is obviously rusty. But his stuff is darting around the zone. Good sign.

[Jack]

I'll wait until the 3rd inning to be worried about Doc's velocity only being at 90. Maybe he's just working his way back in.

[MG]

Iceman - Agreed. Thought he might struggle a bit early until he settled in especially since he only threw a bullpen session with no rehab.

[GBrettfan]

I like Pierre. How can you argue against his hitting this year?

[Hugh Mulcahy]

If Bobby Abreu is batting lead off I'm a little miffed. I didn't find the game until it was 5 outs in.

[MG]

Pierre would have been a better option for this team in LF than '07-'08 Burrell or '09 Ibanez? I think not.

[Jack]

MG: I presume Charlie meant as a 4th-5th OF. In 07, he could've replaced Chris Roberson. Not that much to ask.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettFan: I think I'm beginning to agree. It is indeed hard to argue against a guy who just keeps hitting. Still pains me to watch him throw, but otherwise Juan's been nothing but steady & professional.

[NEPP]

I'm happy he's at least hitting 90.

[Iceman]

I can't believe Pierre's year. I have never been more wrong about anything ever. Even 20 games in I wanted him cut.

[Buster]

I can't believe polanco is so useless oddensively. Remember when everybody got mad at Feliz and his 15 homers and 80 rbis? Polanco will be lucky to get 40 this year.

[Iceman]

BABIP apparently followed him through his DL stint.

[Jack]

I said I'd wait until the 3rd inning to be worried about Doc's velocity still being low...

[Bob]

I've grown to like Pierre also this year and respect his contributions, but I get nervous whenever they hit a hard. long fly ball or slicing drive to left.

[NEPP]

Halladay seems to be the same inefective version of himself that he was before the DL stint.

[MG]

Struggling badly:

Since he came back from missing several games in June with that wrist injury here is Polanco's line:

.193/.269/.241 with 4 XHBs in 93 PAs

He been terrible and been making a ton of weak outs.

[NEPP]

This is just sad to watch. He probably needs to go back on the DL.

[Jack]

MG: You know, if only people could've predicted that Polanco would get banged up with a minor injury and it would end up rendering him completely ineffective offensively.

But nope. Total surprise. Man, what are the chances?

[GTown_Dave]

Yup. Halladay looks great. No need for any more rehab.

[Iceman]

These are the types of innings Halladay bears down and limits the damage. Not sure he can do that while he's still feeling for his command.

I wrote that before the fourth straight hit, so obviously, he is not having that type of inning. Ugh.

[NEPP]

Was Doc's injury something that could be fixed by season-ending surgery?

[NEPP]

Nice DP there...good work by Howard to save Utley's terrible throw.

[Iceman]

Jack- the myth of the healthy Polanco lives on!

[MG]

NEPP - No. It is something that needs rest although I did hear on the radio driving home that Halladay admitted that maybe had has some rotator cuff issues.

[GBrettfan]

Halladay could be rusty...or he could still be hurt...or he could be having an off year...

[MG]

If Halladay really has a pitch count limit tonight of 60-65 pitches, he had no business starting this game.

[GTown_Dave]

Jack: But if you only count the games in which Polanco has been healthy enough to play, he's been among the healthiest 3B in the game over the past three seasons! It's an unalloyed fact, dammit!

[Jack]

I'm sort of mystified too as to why Halladay didn't do any real rehab.

I mean, Amaro doesn't think the team is still in it, does he? Is he really rushing guys back in some hope of contending?

[donc]

If the double play is the pitchers best friend, what was that? The pitchers smokin hot mistress?

[MG]

Couple of good changeups/curves that inning but his sinker and cutter weren't hitting their spots.

Only counted one 4-seam fastball that inning.

[Iceman]

I'm surprised he didn't start pumping that curve like he normally does when he's in trouble. Because it's great tonight.

Everything else looks rusty. He does not need to go back on the DL.

[Buster]

Jack, that's how I feel about this whole team. When they are healthy they play well. Whoopee! The whole point is that thirty something teams post steroid era aren't going to stay healthy. I am very afraid that they win a few games here and amaro thinks he magically turned back the clock on this team. They have to get younger, period.

[Iceman]

Jack- after the Howard thing, do you need to even question?

He's got his foam finger on and 2011 NL East championship hat. Just hope he ditches it in time for the deadline.

[EastFallowfield]

Rollins should of done more to not allow the Dodgers all those hits and those 2 runs.

[Jack]

BAP: What category of loss do you see this game as?

[MG]

Seems like Vic gets behind in almost every one of his ABs from the left side and winds up making a ton of weak outs & Ks.

[Jack]

Those were our 1-2-3 hitters?

[Iceman]

Utley got a meatball there and hit yet another grounder to the right side.

Here's a fun fill-in-the-blank: The 2013 Opening Day Second Baseman for the Phillies will be ___________.

[MG]

Going to be sad if they get shutdown 1-2 runs over 6 IP against this Fife. 89 straight fastball with only a slider that looks like a decent pitch.

[GTown_Dave]

Those were our 1-2-3 hitters?

No worries. Once the Phillies get Howard & Utley & Halladay back, everything will be fine.

[NEPP]

When you face a guy as dominant as Stephen Fife, you just have to tip your cap.

[Jack]

Iceman: Utley isn't Utley anymore.

Probably the main reason I'm very skeptical of this team contending anymore, with this set of players.

[Jack]

I can't wait for Clout to appear to tell us again that it's irrelevant that Doc can't throw the ball harder than 91 MPH anymore.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I don't remember all of B-A-P's loss categories but, this looks like the strangler. Phils score early, then their opponent gets leverage on their neck, slowly snuffing all life out of them.

[The Truth Injection]

Fife does look like he has a nice curveball. That is about it though so far.

Interesting stat just popped up on Gameday:

In his first 45 pitches this season Halladay has held opponents to a .225 batting average. After that it is .313.

[MG]

TTI - Possible tie-in for a '5-Hour Energy' commercial after the season?

[Bob]

Glad to see Doc back.

Command looks off, but breaking stuff looks sharp. Fastball topped at 91. About what I expected. Looked like he could of used 1 more rehab start, but Im not concerned

[Iceman]

I forget the categories too, Hugh, but if they lose, it's gotta be the one where the entire offense falls asleep against a pitcher they should pound ('The Deep Slumber'?). Either that or a BAP favorite, score first, never score again.

[The Truth Injection]

Hate to interrupt this game but I saw a funny stat on Deadspin.

There is a guy in the Red Sox system named Shaq Green-Thompson. He is in the Gulf Coast League. So far this season he is 0 for 32 with 31 strikeouts.

That is outstanding.

[Jack]

TTI: Please, please, please interrupt this game. Seriously.

[MG]

I admit I bet against the Phils tonight. I am sure that Iceman hopes I lose my $10 at +140.

[Steve Jeltz]

The good thing is, Howard won't have to hurt himself trying to score from 2nd on a base hit if they keep hitting grounders to SS.

[MG]

Line actually got up to +153 for the Dodgers and moved to as low as -160 with 86% of betters taking the Phils tonight.

I understand why you wouldn't want to bet on this game because of Halladay's status but what dummy would take the Phils tonight at -150 or -160 given that Halladay was a lock for 5 IP max with no rehab start?

[GTown_Dave]

I'm scoring this a (2), (8) & (13) on the b_a_p Loss Scale.

[cut_fastball]

GTown out-b_a_p's b_a_p:

Timing & cost certainty were indeed the problem, but aksmith got the details wrong. That r00b dumped Lee for Halladay is not a question. However, he did it exclusively for reasons of money, NOT due to the supposed need to "restock the cupboard". To wit:

(a) It would have cost the Phillies $9 million to pick up Lee's '10 option. (b) Halladay's '10 salary was $15.75 million, of which $6 million was paid by Toronto. (c) The Lee trade & Halladay trade/extension both occurred on the same day, 16 December '09.

I still believe that r00b was so focused on Halladay, & so convinced that Lee would not sign an extension w/ the Phillies ahead of his FA, that he & the Phillies made these decisions w/out ever even speaking to Lee or his agent (a belief at least circumstantially confirmed by the shock at which both of the latter parties viewed the trade).

Blanton fits into the picture as both a classic case of r00b far overvaluing a player based upon a partial season's worth of great play (see: Mayberry, John), & a chance to jam said player into the current (at the time) budget at the expense of being stuck w/ an overpriced under-performer down the line. Note that Blanton only received $1 million in salary for '10, but was paid a $6 million bonus during the second half of that calendar year. By-the-by, that deal was signed on 21 January '10, more than a month after the Lee/Halladay moves.

Basically, the entire mess was the Phillies -- Monty & r00b first & foremost -- being penny wise & pound foolish, as is their wont. Not only that, but the "savings" of ~$9 million then have led, at least indirectly, to the Oswalt trade, the Pence trade, & the loss of a rotation of Halladay, Lee & Hamels in '10. Empty cupboard, empty trophy case, no wiggle room now that Hamels is on the verge of FA. Halladay's great, but he's not that great.

Posted by: GTown_Dave | Tuesday, July 17, 2012 at 07:49 PM

To paraphrase the very young? old? Eagles band:

Oh well
it's been a good day in hell
and tomorrow I'll be glory bound.

Whatever...

[GBrettfan]

I feel like the Phillies have struggled against unfamiliar & mediocre pitchers for years.

Be nice if we could give Doc a little run support.

Of course, once our BP enters the game, it won't matter. Unless - and I am feeling hopeful about this - KK does well in relief.

[MG]

Curve has been Doc's best pitch tonight by far.

[NEPP]

Doc has seemingly settled in...good to see.

[MG]

Nice pick Big Man.

[The Truth Injection]

Nice play by Howard

[Jack]

Nice play by Howard there.

[GTown_Dave]

cut: In the immortal words of The Dude, "Man, I had a rough night & I hate the f*ckin' Eagles, man!"

[MG]

Eagles - One of the worst concerts hands down I have ever been to. Over priced, way too long, and boring as hell.

[MG]

What is the point of having Murphy stand in some random spot and read baseball news that in this day and age is so easily gathered and readily available?

If they are going to have a 3rd reporter, just do it at home and trying to find an interesting interview/story. It can't be that hard.

[Replacement Level Poster]

I think the book on Phillies hitters is throw shoulder high and they will chase. Often.

[NEPP]

Maybe Vic could try just batting RH?

[GTown_Dave]

Pitcher You Never Heard Of >>>>>>>>>>>> The Phillies

[MG]

'Pitch to contact' pitcher (Fife) is doing exactly that throwing a ton of offspeed stuff since the 1st inning.

Phils are obliging him by chasing a lot of it and hitting a ton of weak ground ball into easy outs.

[NEPP]

Its a shame we didnt trade for Youkilis to be our 3B this year and next year with his club option.

.939 OPS as a WhiteSox now.

He really would have solved a massive hole in our lineup next year and he cost basically nothing prospect wise.

[MG]

May You Seen Me?:

Kratz last played in a game on June 28th.

[GTown_Dave]

NEPP: He's also never offered at a 3-0 pitch in his entire MLB career. Charlie wouldn't stand for it.

[curt]

I see Cholly has his perverse reverse lineup going again tonight - the guys most likely to get on base are batting 5, 6 and 7. Genius.

[NEPP]

Have to assume Halladay is done for the night after 5.

Looked decent if a bit rusty tonight.

[MG]

Solid outing for Halladay all things considered. Ran into a little trouble in the 2nd inning but other wise he was getting ahead of hitters and getting mostly weak contact.

[GTown_Dave]

Imagine that's it for Halladay. Nice recovery after the shaky 2nd. Shame the Phils couldn't score more than 1 damn run for him. I figure they'll need a lot more once the bullpen is through.

[MG]

Schwimer warming up now? Kind of odd. I would have figured they try to get an 1-2 IP out of KK.

[MG]

Another pitch in on Utley's hands, another weak ground ball to the right-side. Seeing a ton of that so far this year.

[NEPP]

Its almost as if Utley is a shell of his former self.

[MG]

Howard has been the only hitter who hasn't chased Fife's high fastball tonight. Go figure.

[3r0ck]

Eagles - One of the worst concerts hands down I have ever been to. Over priced, way too long, and boring as hell.
Posted by: MG | Tuesday, July 17, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Love The Eagles. Easily in my top 10 for concerts.

Top 5 for me was Metallica (@Bonaroo 2008), Phish (Camden 2009), Dave Matthews (1999 @ The Vet), Roger Waters (Philly 2007), Aerosmith and Run DMC (Camden maybe 2000)

[curt]

According to Howard's "heatmap" on Gameday his only warm hitting zone is down and away.

[NEPP]

***Dave Matthews (1999 @ The Vet)***

I was at that concert.

I saw Metallica a bunch of times too...the Sanitarium tour back in 2000 was pretty good.

[curt]

LA: "If Fife pitches like this against another club, he's going to get lit up."