Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Poll: What should the Phillies do: buy, sell or wait? | Main | And if they can't beat the Rockies, then … »

Monday, June 18, 2012

Comments

Fire Andy Tracy!

If only we had called up Andy Tracy and Mike Cervenak...we could have had back to back to back WFCs


Tracy had 296 HRs in the minors for his career. That has to be pretty close to the record for minor-league ball.


Does anyone think that it really might be in this team's best interest to shut Howard and Utley down for the rest of the year? Especially if they continue to go backwards. I know they think it's cool to wait until July to start playing but it looks like some other teams in the league are playing baseball now, did so in May and April as well.

Just a thought?

Re: Selling

What's the ratio of Jeff Bagwell/John Smoltz trades to the Whatever-We-Got-For-Abreu type trades?

Tracy needs to start using the stopper more. I hear he just sits in the bullpen eating sunflower seeds, waiting for a save opportunity.

To whoever dubbed Savery the grim reaper on here last week and cited the Phillies record in games he appears in I say fine work. Fine work indeed.

***To whoever dubbed Savery the grim reaper on here last week and cited the Phillies record in games he appears in I say fine work. Fine work indeed.***

Thankyou.

Don't make the decision to sell now. Too early.

So the vote is 'wait,' but it's a pretty short window of waiting, especially with a lot of games against division opponents coming up.

It's probably the same ratio as Bagwells and Smoltzs to whatevers in minor league baseball. There are a ton more whatevers.

That pic makes that dude look like poetry in motion.

"Pitching-wise, keep your eye on older right-hander Steven Inch, a 6-4 talent..."

Glad to see that we're not straying from our toolsy position players/tall and lanky pitcher draft philosophy.

235+ is really heavy for a 19(?) year old OF, right?

The short-season teams are pretty much the only thing interesting in the minors for the Phils outside Biddle and the struggles of Brown & May.

Can't wait to see what future Hall of Famer Larry Greene brings to the table in his first ABs with the Cutters!

***That pic makes that dude look like poetry in motion.***

The key to stopping him is to punch him in the stomach right as he makes his charge. If you go for a head shot, he'll just take you down.

gobaystars: It's less than Prince Fielder weighed as a pre-teen, and he turned out ok.

Fortunately, there's this to get us through our team's depressing free fall:

Victorino Fashion Show: Live at 6:45 p.m.

gobay/EFF: are you trying to say that trading players once out of contention is not worth it because the return is more likely poor?

If so, my question to you is: What is gained by holding on to a player during a lost season, who you still can sign in free agency if desired for the future?

I understand this season is far from lost yet, but if they go 3-12 again, it likely will be.

The Philadelphia Toolsies

Maybe we should convert Savery back to 1b again, for the 2nd time.

lorecore, it's a neat idea but how often does that happen?
In a video game or whatever it makes sense but here are some real world considerations. Players don't like being traded, especially in season. If you trade a guy in season it could hurt your chances of re-signing him in a few months. Additionally, what if you trade him to a team that makes a deep run and has a great clubhouse and now that team gets a "hometown" discount? It's like letting your significant other date other people. No good can come of that. Also, if the Phillies ever part with Cole Hamels it will offend a large portion of the fan base. Why do that if you don't have to? Maybe that's why those kind of moves almost never happen.

On field celebrations have really gotten out of hand. And then there's an injured Matt Kemp tackling Dee Gordon, who just got the winning hit. Unreal.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/17/matt-kemp-too-hurt-to-play-not-to-tackle/

Buy.

As in, buy a a giant bus, load up Mini Mart, Wiggy, Kendrick, and shovel the lifeless slop of a bullpen in through the emergency exit and drive that sucker right into the Schuykill.

gobay: Your assumptions of real life emotions and fan reaction is as dreamworld as the video game world you reference.

On field celebrations have really gotten out of hand. And then there's an injured Matt Kemp tackling Dee Gordon, who just got the winning hit. Unreal.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/17/matt-kemp-too-hurt-to-play-not-to-tackle/

Posted by: Josh Batushansky

At least they have something to celebrate.

Buy.

As in, buy a a giant bus, load up Mini Mart, Wiggy, Kendrick, and shovel the lifeless slop of a bullpen in through the emergency exit and drive that sucker right into the Schuykill.

Posted by: Five-4-One

Thanks for the much needed laugh.

Ok then why doesn't it happen more often. Why aren't MLB GM's as smart as you. Does a team have the same chance of resigning a guy 3 months after they traded him?

We already drove Mini Mart off into the Pine Barrens and left him for dead this spring...despite that, he still showed back up 2 months later.

We already drove Mini Mart off into the Pine Barrens and left him for dead this spring...despite that, he still showed back up 2 months later.

Posted by: NEPP | Monday, June 18, 2012 at 12:47 PM

Thats because Pence was supposed to shoot hime when they got past Chatsworth but he got all nervous and dropped the gun.

I love how Kendrick is still getting killed here. It really shows how once people start loathing a guy, they go completely off the deep-end and can never be reasonable about him.

gobay: it happens every single season.

Have we learned nothing in this day and age of zombie apocalypse talk, etc.? You have to cut Mini Mart's head off.

Lidge DFA'd.

every season guys are traded to another team and then re-signed by the team that traded him?

"I love how Kendrick is still getting killed here. It really shows how once people start loathing a guy, they go completely off the deep-end and can never be reasonable about him."

It can't have anything to do with his 2-7 record, 5.29 ERA, 1.54 WHIP or his 74 ERA+?

I really do hate Pence in the field and for the most part I only tolerate him at the plate.

5 4 1

I thought Pence overshot the target by 40 feet to the left, MM took off and started running toward Philly,

He got lost once or twice learned how to read a map and arrived at CBP earlier this month

The story could not be coloberated, so no charges were pressed...


OR ....

JBird The short-season teams are pretty much the only thing interesting in the minors for the Phils outside Biddle and the struggles of Brown & May.
You need to get off the couch and spend a few days in Reading.

gobay: I generally agree with you about Hamels, because I think there is zero chance he re-signs here if we deal him in July, and I'm still one of those idiots that believes the FO intends to make a competitive offer and keep him, even if he does test free agency. For that reason, I think selling him just for the sake of selling is stupid.

I also don't think that some commenters comprehend the difference between selling assets that have almost no value going forward (Vic, Hamels [only if the FO knows it doesn't intend to keep him, or he doesn't intend to re-sign no matter what]) and just selling everyone on the team because they hate them all for being so awful this year. Someone said over the weekend that he doesn't want to see a single player back next season. I think some people genuinely feel this way, or at least want most of the guys gone. That would serve no purpose and would be incredibly stupid.

But the idea of selling on guys that are at the end of their deals, who the team doesn't plan on re-signing (almost certainly Vic, possibly Hamels, though only the FO knows the truth with him), or players that don't provide much value in the long-term (if they're not going to re-sign Pence to an extension that he isn't worth, then he falls into this category), in exchange for players that could provide value for you years down the road, is certainly an avenue worth exploring.

They are essentially poker chips that are about to hit their expiration date if you don't turn them in and exchange them for something. The only value in keeping someone like Vic here would be if you think he can help the team make a playoff push this year. If they are out of contention, then his value is absolutely nothing. Why wouldn't you go get what prospects you can for him instead of letting him walk and getting a draft pick that the FO will whiff on anyway?

Has Utley reinjured himself I notice he has not been in the lineup for a few days.

gobay: Rental players are traded every single season for unknown/younger players.

The reason teams don't re-sign players that they trade away is because if they want them so bad, they usually sign them to an extension before they become a FA.

Cole Hamels being a Phillie past 2012 was never the Phillies #1 priority. It could have been as high as #2, but in the end, it was never #1 or we'd never be in this situation.

Utley has been playing in XST while the A+ ball AS break has been going on.

You're right Willard. Everyone was totally in on Kendrick until this year. He's never been trashed before. Last year when he was integral to the team's success, everyone loved him. Not sure where I was getting that people have had a long-standing hatred for him.

And i call BS on anyone who thinks that if the Phillies traded Cole Hamels, that Hamels wouldn't accept a deal back if we paid him more than any other team in the league.

Funny that the raw, toolsy outfielder who actually worked out was Quintin Berry (.333/.409/.436 with Detroit.)

jw: yeah.. and john mayberry was good once upon a time too.

Seriously no one thinks that shutting down Ultey and Howard for good this year is a possibility? Wouldn't you rather have them at 100% next year and starting from fresh in April?

sure, iceman, see what's out there. Trading Vic could even be OK. Pence, despite being a dope has some value as a complimentary piece. If the Phillies know they are out of the running on Hamels then they could trade him but I don't think they are out of the running because if they're out then who the heck is in?
As for this trade him get prospects and then re-sign him fantasy that apparently happens every year to invisible players on teams that don't exist, I don't think it's the best move.

would shutting him down this year make him a better player next year? how exactly would that work?

would shutting him down this year make him a better player next year? how exactly would that work?

Posted by: gobaystars!

It could because at this point it seems like they could be rushing back to join a team that is drowning. For Howard it definitely would help. We all know the recovery time for an achilles.

Why wouldn't you go get what prospects you can for him instead of letting him walk and getting a draft pick that the FO will whiff on anyway?

This makes sense, & I generally agree. However, I also fully expect the FO to whiff when deciding what compromises "good value" in a trade.

Right, but I really don't get the sense that either guy is being rushed. I mean it is mid-june. As with most injuries there's the date a guy can safely return with an increased injury risk and then there's a date when he's back at 100% strength.

Joe D: I'd absolutely keep Howard out for the rest of the season. His contract makes him untradeable, so it's in the best interests of the team to be exceptionally cautious, esp. as they're about to fall completely out of contention.

I'd let Utley play, though. Might as well see what 8-9 mos. of rest allows him to play regularly again. That's stretching the boundaries of practicality as is. Waiting any longer won't help him, or the ball club.

Howard, maybe / Utley, no.

Howard has a very known problem that is well documented to heal with time. Utley, we have no idea what extra rest will do for him.

Larry Greene nickname - 'Dough Boy?'

I dont see shutting down Utley as making any difference. He hasn't played in a game since early Oct 2011. If 9 months off aren't good enough, I dont think he will ever be "healthy" again.

Rube has sold Blanton's rights to a TV producer for a Judge show. On Judge Joe Blanton, people will waive their rights to a court trial for a chance to hit a Blanton hanger left over the plate too long into the seats. If they accomplish this, their cases or lawsuits will be dismissed. So far Canseco and Nails have signed on. Delmon Young asked to be put on the waiting list.

I think I agree with letting Utley play with the idea that you have to see what he has left. But as of right now I see no positives to bringing (esp. rushing) Howard back.

Joe D-- Exactly. And based on Mayberry's last 4 games it looks like he's ready to fill the Howard void like we hoped.

.353/.389/.941/1.330, 3 HR, 8 RBI

A .941 SLG is definitely sustainable.

Iceman, I don't argue that KK has been the victim of needless hatred (especially when you consider that no one ever anointed him as anything more than a fringe pitcher - in the swing man role, he's been perfectly fine and even pretty good at times; sadly, he's not a viable regular MLB starter).

I just find the timing of the comment on the "Kendrick bashing" to be a bit out of synergy considering that KK has, indeed, been sucking out loud as of late, and is putting up stats that rank among the worst we've seen from him.

Is it too early yet to gripe that the Phils didn't realize Berry could be a competent major leaguer? Another case of not recognizing talent?

Joe D-- Exactly. And based on Mayberry's last 4 games it looks like he's ready to fill the Howard void like we hoped.

.353/.389/.941/1.330, 3 HR, 8 RBI

A .941 SLG is definitely sustainable.

Posted by: Cyclic

I assume you are joking about Mayberry filling the void?

Cyclic, I'm easy, I'll settle for a .941 OPS

BBeard: Yes.

JW - He does. If Williamsport weren't out in the middle of nowhere and closer to Philly, I might be tempted to drive out there to catch a game.

I'm all for letting Howard collect this year's $20M without a single dime of it contributing toward the team's on-field performance if it means that next year we can count on a viable and legitimate upgrade (and thereby a better on-field product). Sadly, I'm not convinced that anyone can make that promise. An injury that saps power from a player whose real value is power hitting (and the associated peaks and valleys) is a major concern for more than just this year. As I see it, the best plan of action is to basically hope and pray you get something resembling the guy before he got hurt. If a few more months better those odds, than so be it.

Williamsport is the jewel of Lycoming County...at least I think its Lycoming County.

"Tigers manager Jim Leyland said before Sunday's game against Colorado that he was playing rookie Quintin Berry and Don Kelly to give his team speed and energy.

Kelly played well, going 1-for-4 and playing sterling defense at third base.

But Berry brought so much energy that he nearly electrified the sellout crowd of 40,619 at Comerica Park in the 5-0 win."

He's only had 89 PAs and played sparingly vs LHP. If he goes on to put up even a .780-.800 OPS this year in 300+ PAs, then yeah they screwed up big time on Berry.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120618/SPORTS02/206180356/Quintin-Berry-and-Don-Kelly-give-Tigers-speed-and-energy?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|s

I'm still pondering NEPP's desire for an OF of LF Utley, CF Brown and RF Nix next season.

It would create some great BL threads:

1. Will Utley's bone-on-bone knees affect his range in LF?
2. How many balls hit right at him in CF will Dom misjudge in the season's first month? Five? 10? All of them?
3. Which collision with Brown will put Nix on the DL? The first one? The second? All of them?

If we're really, really lucky, Howard will come back and end up tearing his other achilles tendon after he has to overcompensate due to the weak leg.

***That pic makes that dude look like poetry in motion.***

The key to stopping him is to punch him in the stomach right as he makes his charge. If you go for a head shot, he'll just take you down.

Posted by: NEPP | Monday, June 18, 2012 at 12:30 PM

My nomination for post of the year!

***I'm still pondering NEPP's desire for an OF of LF Utley, CF Brown and RF Nix next season.***

More like a joke of what happens if we sell off everything (Pence, Vic, etc).

I would go with All of them for questions 2 & 3 and I would guess that LF would actually be easier on Utley's knees than 2B.

Utley/Brown/Nix wouldn't be much worse than the outfield I've seen advocated in the last week of Ramirez/Vic/Pence.

For all of you who are bashing the Phils over a Quintin Berry hot streak, have you looked at his track record?

Just since 2009, his emergence into AA:

Year Age OPS
2009 24 691 AA
2010 25 590 (released by Phils after 285 PAs, was worse at San Antonio)
2011 26 774 (All but 19 PAs at AA)
2012 27 688 AAA

After the Phils, the Padres, Mets and Reds let him slip through their fingers.

He's 27 years old. He's OBP heavy, so he has that.

Before yesterday's game, he was .288/.373/.397 .771

But it would be ironic if this toolshed escapee turned out to be the one who paid off.

Berry: .473 BABIP.

Yeah, that seems sustainable.

BedBeard: "Is it too early yet to gripe that the Phils didn't realize Berry could be a competent major leaguer? Another case of not recognizing talent?"

Berry was an OK, not great, prospect. He had speed, a good eye and a good glove, but a severe lack of power and way too many Ks for a guy with zero power. At age 25 in Double A his SLG was .284. He makes Juan Pierre look like Mark McGwire.

He's also managed to strike out in 22% of his ABs in his career, which is pretty bizarre for a guy whose career slugging is .338.

The Phillies waived him mid-season 2010, as did, subsequently, the Padres, Mets and Reds. He's now with the Tigers at age 27 and gotten off to a nice start. Is it real?

I doubt it.

***Is it real?***

No.

I see that Berry was released on July 12, 2009. Pedro was signed on July 15. Was Berry released off the 40-man roster to make room for Pedro?

Edmundo, I show that he was DFA'd July 12, 2010?

Willard, you are right, I won't do any critical reading the rest of the day. I don't know what I was seeing. :(

Dickey going for his 11th win tonight.

Lee going for his first win later this week.

All you need to know about the Phils' season.

Very fair question though. As in, I don't exactly see a REASON for his DFA. I suppose just performance based?

Mr Met, you may as well have Cerrone put up the playoff Magic Number.

I firmly believe that certain NL East teams will raise a "2012 Better Record Than The Phillies" banner on opening day next year. I just wonder if they will give out rings too.

If Berry somehow is for real, how's this for back-to-back days where Amaro made what look to be right moves that would blow up in his face?

July 14, 2010
Quintin Berry selected by the San Diego Padres off waivers.

July 15, 2010
Released Ryan Vogelsong.


Both of which would be almost offset by this move:
July 17, 2010
Released Juan Castro. :)


I'd rather have Juan Castro on the roster than Michael Martinez.

I'd rather have Fidel Castro on the roster than Michael Martinez.

Fidel was a decent hitter and even a solid fielder to some extent. His biggest weakness was going to his right on groundballs...man simply couldn't do it for whatever reason.

I have to say "I ain't an athlete,Lady" far surpasses Dickey's book.
I am waiting for "Mama, send me chaw" Nails' jailhouse diary.

I'd rather have a Castro convertible on my roster than Michael Martinez.

NEPP, that is a horrifying truth.

I am waiting to hear Ruben say this one day: "Michael Martinez is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

I'd rather be Castrated than have Michael Martinez on my roster.

I'd rather swallow Castor oil than have Michael Martinez on my roster.

Fidel ruled. Literally.

Edmundo, I haven't seen Gillick since I attended that garden club meeting with Rube and Monty.

Fidel is a survivor...you have to respect that.

The proverbial window may have smashed shut this year, but we're still the measuring stick for the other teams in the division.

Articles on the Nats during their sweep at the hands of the Yankees talked about their lead over the second place team AND how many games the Phils are back. (Not any mention of the Mets though).

Small comfort.

Luciano and Raul's G, good ones both.

I wonder if Josh Batushanksy normally has a beard or if that pic was taken during a Flyers playoff run.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG