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Saturday, June 30, 2012


Jump to newest comment has worked on my iPhone in a while. Really a pain.

Guys time to come to the light. All the national and local sports analysts are saying they are DONE. Not like 07 here guys are older and the teams in div are ALOT better. Let's start discussing who and what they can get for these guys. First Shane bye bye. And second will be Cole. After that hunter dense. I don't think cliff can take too much more of those two stooges in the outfield. Sure dom has his issues, but more and more these two can make routine plays.

So you're saying the "Jump to the newest comments" button is a little like the Phillies this year?

So you're saying the "Jump to the newest comments" button is a little like the Phillies this year?
Posted by: J. Weitzel | Saturday, June 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Yes! Thanks for fixing it, JW!

It's time to look ahead to next year's team. If we go on some magic run and get the wild card, great.

But in the meantime...

-Can we sign Hamels?
-Who is playing centerfield in 2013?
-Who is playing third base?
-Who is playing second base?
-How do we rebuild the bullpen?

I don't know the answer, but I know these are some of the questions.

I'm not really going to look ahead to next year because I probably only have 45-50 baseball seasons left in my natural life and throwing away half of one isn't really something I can get behind. They could pull off a minor miracle. They could play better baseball and fall short. They could even keep struggling under clear skies and cold beer at CBP. None of the above would be the worst thing in the world.
But philosophy aside, I still think that if they can keep Cole and acquire a bat with a little pop at 3rd or LF/CF or even 2nd they'll be alright next year. Give Dom his shot to sink or swim. See what happens. I don't think the careers of Cliff and Doc are over or they won't be big contributors next year even if they don't win 18-22 games each.
Sometimes baseball seasons just don't work out like they should. It's still a beautiful game. You regroup and go get them tomorrow or next year.


When you're team is ten games back and their sixth starter is pitching better than Cliff Lee, it's time to put the "For Sale" sign up and make some trades. No shame in it. Bad managing, bad signings and trades, injuries, and uninspired play happen to all clubs. Five years of NL East Champs was awesome. If you told me I'd get a horrendous season in '12 in exchange, I'd do it any day. Now's the time to focus on next season. I already pressed the self destruct button. Amaro should too.

but I'm waiting on how self destruction helps 2013.
Trade Vic? Sure I don't think they want him back anyway. But after that? Lee and Halladay are done? Cole unsignable?

Nothing is wrong with Lee. He's just unlucky. In fact, he's still pitching great. The omnipotent Sabermetricians told me so with their mind-blowing stats and tables/graphs/charts.

I can't wait until the Phillies are officially out of it then the Fiefdom of Eggheads can fight it out over who gave up first.

Has the proverbial towel been thrown in?

Then I say set the proverbial wick and blow this baby sky high !
I am for younger more exciting players. I would take phone calls on all players with the plan to rebuild and compete by 2014.

Carson: Cliff Lee is still better than your website.

Unikruk- you're comparing apples and cars. Not even the same category. But, that's fine. My website sucks. Cool. Glad we've been sucking for 7 seasons now.

Lee is having a bad year but it doesn't mean his career is shot.

Lee is a great pitcher having a down year. Much the same way Hamels did in '09.

I dont know you or Unikruk from Adam. but comparing Lee to your website sheds some bad light on you. Seems you should be able to roll with that a little better.
It was actually funny.

And I agree with gobaystars , some pitchers have bad years. They recover and pitch well again.
Lots of bad mojo for the Phillies right now.

"-Who is playing second base?"

The Phillies organization has got to be thinking at this point that in order to keep the bat of Chase Utley in the line-up going forward, that he has to be moved to another position (after 2012).

1B is out with Howard there so it has to be LF right?

But in the meantime...

"-Can we sign Hamels?
-Who is playing centerfield in 2013?
-Who is playing third base?
-Who is playing second base?
-How do we rebuild the bullpen?

I don't know the answer, but I know these are some of the questions."

And the answers to these very valid questions will be very interesting, indeed.

Carson: Is it kind of like in 2009, when Hamels was struggling and you claimed he was a "soft" bum who was worthless, while most reasonable people just said he was struggling and somewhat unlucky but that he was still a great pitcher and there was no reason to think he wasn't?

Whatever happened to that Hamels guy, anyway?

GM-Carson's site may not be as good as Cliff Lee or the Phillies in the long run, but he has a nice site with humor and right now, compared to the Cliff Lee and the Phillies, GM-Carson's website is way definitely better.

Carlos Lee has been traded to the Dodgers pending his waiving his no-trade clause.

I guess the Astros are sellers, getting rid of the last player that anyone has ever heard of. Oh, wait, the wife beater is still on their team, serving as their closer. Once they get rid of him, the team will become a complete no name team.

I don;t know if it;s feasible, or what you might get if you absorb a chunk of salary but, if/when the phils decide tehy;re sellers, I;d be asking AL teams what they;d give me for chase Utley. This notion of moving him to LF is not exactly attractive.

holy crap man, i thought they were starting to shape into a competitive team but now a half of week later they are sinking way faster than they ever ascended.

my positive fandom is in serious jeopardy of disappearing.

Repost from last thread:

cut, I admit that I rarely ever criticize Halladay (I have on occasion), but I never feel the need to. It's obvious that this year, he was pitching hurt. Go back and look at his last two years as a Phillie, and tell me that that is a pitcher relying on the umpire?

Are you kidding me. Above average strikeout rate, elite level walk rate, elite level ground ball rates. Pitches deep into nearly every game he takes the mound. And just because he's lacking a dominant fastball, somehow that makes him less of a pitcher than Oswalt?

Go compare their careers: Oswalt's had a nice career, but Doc has lapped him in every meaningful aspect of the game. And you talk about Doc not having "stuff", but maybe the thoughts of actual MLB hitters will change your opinion:

"You see two different pitches coming at you the same speed from the same release point," says Baltimore's Roberts, "but you don't know which way it's going to break. Think how hard that is to hit."

"It's command and movement," Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter says. "You can't go up there thinking you're going to take some pitches and work the count because you'll be 0 and 2 before you know it. And you know you can't run up his pitch count to get him out early. His command is too good, and he never comes out."

This is from Verducci's article on Roy Halladay when he joined the Phillies. That doesn't sound like a guy who's relying on the corners to get outs. It sounds like a guy who has amazing movement and life on his pitches that consistently fools pitchers.

To claim that his injury proved something lacking in his game is borderline insane. What happened when Oswalt (who had that great fastball) got injured? He became a shell of himself, too.

Now Lee is obviously not Doc, but that guy didn't have a K/9 greater than 9 last year because the umpires were giving him the benefit of the doubt. He did it because he has amazing command of his pitches, and his stuff, while not as superb as a Lee or Verlander, is definitely good enough to fool MLB hitters.

To use Doc's injury and Lee's recent struggles to denigrate their past successes is well beneath you, cut.

great thread header. one more bad week and all hope is lost. don;t understand the "let;s trade everyone" campaign, though. trade the short timers if you can get something, get healthy, reload, if this is a lost season.

Is that dog the one I picked up on South Beach last night? After a couple of Cuba Libra's I'm not reponsible for my actions I really miss Harry. He could handle the booze during these losing seasons. T-Mac is useless.

2013 Trevor May or May not be the answer. My take is not.Julio E. Rodriguez would seem to have a better chance. I still think Friend would be a plus for the pen. Even if bad he'd be a plus.Ruf will never get a chance and don't see anyone else here ready next year.
As for LHV I think that Ryno guy might be ready.Not interested in stats,can anyone who has seen them play more than once comment. All star Fransden,another no shot and I doubt Cloyd is ready,should be allowed to audition the rest of the year though.

The problem with "reloading" is that it presumes the team can easily be competitive going forward.

Why would we think that an old, injured, declining team would suddenly get better and healthier in another year? Especially after losing two of their younger, better players in Victorino and Hamels.

Jack~ The team may not be better. But what else can they do? They've already shown they won't add payroll to improve, so the only thing they can do is slash payroll and try to plug the holes that are left by the trades they'll possibly make.

I have no idea how they'll do it, but obviously, this aging injured team probably is not capable (at least we haven't seen it) of putting together enough of a run to get back into contention this year.

Jack - Yup. That's the difficult part and no one in including Amaro has a good idea mainly because he has no idea what Utley and Howard will give the Phils.

Lee has pitched well overall and his peripheral stats show that. He just hasn't pitched well in June and has gotten hit hard the past few starts.

It is also starting to effect him mentally. That was clear as day on the mound last night to the routine grounder he let go through his legs in the first to the complete lack of focus after Pence dropped that ball in the 5th. Cholly knew it too. Why he pulled him before the inning was over.

In my version of reload (which I don;t pretend is simple), you make every reasonable effort to bring Hamels back.

I can't believe Cliff Lee was traded to the Dodgers and he won't go.

Alright let's see what kind of disaster the home team has in store today.

Wonder when the talk of a "clubhouse cancer" will begin.

Last night's unmitigated Cliff Lee disaster was the final straw. Forget the next 8 games. I'm calling it, finally & for all, right now:

Season = Over.

It's pretty revealing to consider the rotation in 2008-9 with 2011-12. Hamels, Moyer, Blanton, Myers, Pedro. No Halladay, Oswaly, Lee for half of 09.
What's the difference? Bullpen.

Phils have handled Buehrle pretty well so far this season, need it to continue.

You have three aces, only one of whom is pitching like an ace. And that's the one everyone wants to trade? Lee is clearly having problems with command. His pitches are fine otherwise. I suppose this is a lesson in how important command in the strike zone is. And if umps aren't going to call pitches on the black, then Lee becomes that much more like Kendrick.

Last night he missed his target with regularity by about half the width of the plate. The Phillies don't know what's wrong with him? Well I do. If he's not injured physically, then it's in his head. Because as I said, his pure "stuff" is fine.

Shane is gone. Pence should be gone. Polanco? Will probably be kept because they really don't have anyone else.

Galvis to short when he returns. Rollins to third. Utley? Send him to Europe for the latest treatment. Howard? Hope he comes back strong because if he doesn't, he'll be on an AL team for four years with the Phillies paying 15 mil of his 25 mil yearly salary at least.

Cole has to come up big in this game.

You have three aces, only one of whom is pitching like an ace. And that's the one everyone wants to trade?

He's the only one that's currently tradable. What team would give up anything of any value for Lee or Halladay right now?

Ramirez had no chance on that play...Pence played that as routinely as possible and got him no problem.

I think the Utley Day loss was the evil twin of the Thome Walkoff game.

I don't get why anyone (even Patrone) would want this team to add more salary to this season. Go into the Luxury Tax zone for a team that won't make it to a wildcard? Even if Chase and Howard play everyday for here on out (which they won't ) and hit two homers a game a piece, this rotation and bullpen won't hold up their end.

I am the guy at the elevator banging the lit up button with my fist. The panic button should have stayed lit since the St.Lou series last season. The offense is not going "back to old form" (whatever the f-ck that means with this squad) and the bullpen is as stable as a holey hammock.

The (not so) new theme song for your 2012 Philadelphia Phillies!

yikes, that ball had no chance in hell it was going to stay in the yard.

"It's pretty revealing to consider the rotation in 2008-9 with 2011-12. Hamels, Moyer, Blanton, Myers, Pedro. No Halladay, Oswaly, Lee for half of 09.
What's the difference? Bullpen."

That's one difference, but it's far from the only one. There's also the fact that this year's version of Lee simply isn't as good as many of those pitchers were:

Blanton: 2008-2009 Phillies ERA+ 104
Moyer: 2008 ERA+ 117
Lee: 2009 Phillies ERA+ 124
Pedro: Phillies ERA+ 117
Lee: 2012 ERA+ 97

Outdoors and that ball lands in Cuba ! Wow !

You have 3 aces, 1 of whom is pitching to his ability. You have a bullpen that is AAA material other than Papelbon. Where is Dubee's responsibility for this mess?

RG- the offense is about third or fourth on the list of things wrong with the team. Not sure why you'd single them out.

wheels just stole tmac's safe and secure promo, probably the highlight of the season.

I don't have the stats handy, but I thought I read a couple of days ago that the June '12 ERA of Phillies starters was even worse than that of the June '12 Phillies bullpen.

I have heard seen 0ne of Cloyd's pitching performance, so tell me why he shouldn't be given a sniff at least in the ML

Put it this way he would have been a damn side better that bull pen game the other night..

Ouch, BAP, is that so? Most of that damage to Lee's numbers has been done in the month of June, right? I'm still hoping he'll turn it around.

Not that it probably matters to our chances this year, but at least we can hope for more "fun" baseball in the second half. This first half has been a real drag. It stretches the limits of the "entertainment" it's supposed to be.

Dumbest team in baseball.

Because they suck.

GBrett: Yes, most of the damage is in June. His June ERA is 6.12.

Question: What the hell ever happened to Laynce Nix?

Answer: Dead.

Was Pence concussed recently?

The 2012 Philles as a modernist play:

Waiting for Laynce Nix.

which reminds me of the statler bros'. "what ever happened to randolph scott?"

The 2012 Phillies: a genre-defining example of absurdist theatre.

As modernist poetry they would have be "The Waste Land."

PSA that runs at 4am.

Brenner:Hello, I'm Yul Brenner
Nix: and I'm Laynce Nix, by the time you see this, we'll be dead.
Brenner: Whatever you do, don't smoke.
Nix: Yeah, and don't hurt your leg or whatever they said I hurt.

Oh, good. Tommy Hutton's in the booth w/ TMac.

*flings self out window*

What ex-Phillie (or present Phillie) would make a good color announcer?

I can't think of any.

This team blows.

I can't believe Buerhle didn't throw home.
Also can't believe they turned that DP.

Hamels throwing a strike to Stanton? This team isn't only untalented. It possess a healthy dose of stupid.

I wonder how Sarge is doing in the Marlins TV booth?

Vic's upset.

"C'mon! I was safe, right? People keep telling me I'm a "Free Asian", whatever that means. Being safe would've helped my Free Asiancy, right?" hard can it be to score a guy from 3rd with only one out?

I understand that the Marlins' fan turned of his set thirty seconds after Sarge started his inning.

Fatalotti: Great post on Halladay.

I'm sure Shane entered the season with the intent of making his contract situation a no-brainer for RAJ.

I think he's done just that...

If we trade Hamels or Victorino mid-season, can we insist on trading Wheels/T-Mac/Sarge with them?

I would accept a lesser prospect haul in return to get these TV guys out of here and put LA and Franzke on the air.

i think juan pierre has a future as a broadcaster. he certainly would be superior to sarge. pierre is a student of the game.

I'm not enjoying watching this team today. Everyone, have a great day and don't let this bunch get you down.

I can count about 5 bad baseball plays in this game already. I think I'm ready to stop paying attention to this team.

RAJ's problem is similar to Pat Gillick's in 2006.
The team doesn't look like it's going to make the playoffs, but it's a close call. Gillick was a seller and he cost them a playoff spot and got nothing for the future in return (and yes, I recognize this is heresy on BL, but I deal in reality.)
RAJ's challenge is to decide whether Utley & Howard can get them the last playoff spot and if not, make trades that actually yield useful future talent.

Can anybody on this team pitch dominant anymore? Getting pathetic.

bullit: Agreed RE: Pierre. He's a sharp guy, & seems to know what he's talking about.

I happen to agree with Clout that Gillick screwed up at the 2006 deadline--not by trading Abreu necessarily (it made sense to open up room for Victorino and Werth on the roster, anyway), but for not getting anything of value in return for him.

But I stop at pretending like the 2006 and 2012 Phillies have anything else in common. One was a team full of young players on the rise. The other is a team full of old players on the decline.

Hamels is about to give up a few more runs. Not good.

Ruggiano must be the greatest prospect in history even though none of the scouting reports say so.

2nd Grand Slam in 2 days. ALMOST.

Ok, so only 1 more run. Hamels limited the damage. Good for him.

He can't give up any more runs in the game, though.

Might be a good time for the Phillies to score a few runs of their own.

Phillies are 21st in the league in ERA. From record pitching one season to that the next. UGH. Yet so many people keep complaining about the hitting.

Games in domes are grey and dreary. Even when you're winning.

Jack: "But I stop at pretending like the 2006 and 2012 Phillies have anything else in common. One was a team full of young players on the rise. The other is a team full of old players on the decline."

I totally agree with this. Just as the 1980 and 1983 teams were old and in decline. The question is whether this one has one last gasp in it.

i've seen Pierre interviewed at length a few times and he definitely has a good voice for broadcasting. his only flaw is the frequent uhhhhhh while he composes his next thought. i'm sure he could eliminate that.

Phillies and Orioles discussing Thome deal

Clout- Yeah and Gillick turned around and used those savings to acquire Garcia and sign Eaton. Also wanted to pay to move Burrell too that offseason and get nothing in return. Yet it has become popular lore in Philly that the Abreu trade was the key to the team finally getting over the hump the following year.

Lots most of popular lore it is not substantiated by the actual events and in many cases is actually flawed or wrong.

The problem isn't the starting pitching, or the bullpen, or the offense. The problem is the starting pitching AND the bullpen AND the offense. No consistency, anywhere.

Doug Glanville might be good as well although he may be a bit too cerebral for the position.

Lots most of popular lore it is not substantiated by the actual events and in many cases is actually flawed or wrong.

"Men's memories are uncertain and the past that was differs little from the past that was not."

Hacker !!!

as penn grad, he might be. ;) mb doug could do play-by-play w/ juan doing color.

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