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Friday, June 29, 2012

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This makes complete sense, and I hope they get some value for him. Just don't know if they will. My gut tells me they end up with a 24 year old career AA right handed pitcher in a week or so.

What ever they do, Jim will handle it with class.

Imaging being the prospect who was traded for Jim Thome.

*Imagine*

Ryan Howard pushing out Jim Thome? It's 2005 all over again.

This blows. But Thome deserves one last shot, and he certainly proved he can still produce as a DH.

I can't imagine getting anything MLB caliber for him, though.


esp. with Howard coming back, Thome is a vestigial organ on this team. they;ll trade him because they have n[o real use for him. I hope he finds a good fit. would love to see him play in the world series.

I have no objection to dealing Thome, but nothing about Howard's rehab -- & certainly not his performance last night -- makes me think he'll be ready to come back in 20 days. Not that they won't activate him, mind you, just that I think it'll be too soon. There's still zero strength in his plant leg & that might lead to some bad habits, if not another injury should he try to overcompensate. In short, I really can't state strongly enough how much I dislike the Phillies approach w/ regard to Howard.

Now that GTown_Dave has chimed in, perhaps RAJ needs to rethink this Howard thing. Had no idea he felt that way.

Thome's signing looks just as foolish now as it did when the Phils signed him. He and Qualls were pointless and wasteful expenses.

If the Phils were charging toward another World Series, Thome wouldn't look so pointless. But when you're 9.5 out of first ...

Just a question about an improbable (but not impossible) scenario:

Thome goes to a team that is now a contender. The move is, of course, handled with class, and Jim is welcomed to this latest city with open arms and fanfare, as always.

But the contender team falls out of the race. The Phils start edge ahead in the standings, and lo and behold are back in playoff action come fall.

If one objective is to get Jim his ring, and another is to give the Phils a solid bat against the AL team, would there be a way for Thome to return to the Phillies in anticipation of a WS run? If the Phils made the WS, Thome, of course would DH. But because he had regular at bats in his new AL team, he wouldn't be rusty anymore, and might be used off the bench in any NL playoff scenario.

In other words, might this deal be about putting Thome in the best position to play, contribute, and win with flexibility as to the final destination depending on how the season unfolds?

He won't get much the Phils much or make them a better team but it is the right thing to do for Thome if he gets traded to a playoff contender.

See? Mark gets it. And I'll bet he didn't even go to Stanford. So what's r00b's problem?

Glad the front office realized they are out. Makes selling process that much easier. Start with thome and work down list

I just don't understand the lovefest for Thome. Yeah, he's a nice guy and all, but this isn't 2003. This was a horrendous signing by Amaro and once again he has to backtrack. What did they think was going to happen? Did they think they'd cruise to a division title and let Thome come along for the ride? If so, that's pretty arrogant thinking. But then again, this is Amaro we're talking about.

Make whoever take Qualls too if they want Jim.

This is not the start of a selling process. It's a completely different set of circumstances. I think most people understand that.

Now if they tank in these next three series, you'll probably be seeing some 'for sale' signs at CBP.

There's Ryan Howard, hitting balls into the shift just like we know and love! Glad to see he's learned to be a better hitter during his downtime.

Posted by: Overpriced | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Yeah, you want Ryan Howard to be hitting infield singles to the left side and legging them out. PPPure brilliance!

It will be the start. Book it. Team drops last two games to pirates. Could easily be over .500 before break. Now 6 again under .500. I think a lot of fans have false hope after the last 5 years. Any knowledgeable BL knows where the team is. Maybe all the positive thinking will steer baseball gods in out favor.

I'm most worried about these next three games. I don't know if my retinas can survive looking at the garish interior of Miami's new ballpark for that long.

Iceman - Agreed except about the next 3 series. They have been terrible this month & but they have another month to see where they stand.

If Amaro has already decided to "sell" then, Amaro is doing a disservice to the team and its fans. Whatever catharsis the hook, Will Schweitzer and others are seeking in advocating a premature abandonment of the season, I expect management understands that the team hasn;t arrived at the point where the decision is justified. It may bet there very soon but, right now, all talk of selling is just talk and contingency planning. Thome is a separate case - a player who they incorrectly (and maybe blindly) thought could contribute on the field as well as at bat, but, who is still a potentially capable player for the other league.

Another issue too is dumping Thome saves them a little cash too. Probably ~$600 if they keep Luna on the roster the rest of the year.

Seems like a pittance but never to be underestimated for a team that is very reluctant to go over the luxury payroll tax threshold.

Did they think they'd cruise to a division title and let Thome come along for the ride? If so, that's pretty arrogant thinking. But then again, this is Amaro we're talking about.

Posted by: Outta here | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Yeah, how dare anybody think a team coming off the best record in baseball could possibly contend the following year??? Essentially replacing non-fielding Ross Gload on the bench with non-fielding Jim Thome. PPPure arrogance!

$600k. Thome's making $1.25M.

PPP - Thinking that Thome could play 1-2/week when he hadn't played 1B even on a semi-regular basis in several years? Just a bit of hopeful thinking.

Reply: Crickets chirping.

Essentially replacing non-fielding Ross Gload on the bench with non-fielding Jim Thome. PPPure arrogance!

Posted by: pissy pants posse | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 12:12 PM

PPP - Thinking that Thome could play 1-2/week when he hadn't played 1B even on a semi-regular basis in several years? Just a bit of hopeful thinking.

Reply: Crickets chirping.

Posted by: MG | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM

MG, what PPPart of the word non-fielding didn't you understand? I guess "non"

PPP - Revisionist history. Not what Amaro said when he was signed or constantly through out spring training.

Any other flawed analysis or selective pieces of an argument you want to throw out there as usual to make your 'funnies?'

"There's still zero strength in his plant leg..."


GTown, Howard himself has said otherwise.

"Ryan Howard pushing out Jim Thome? It's 2005 all over again."

Yep.

awh: I'll believe it when I see it.

Thome and Victorino for Pedro Strop

Am I the only one that thinks that there are an awful lot of BLers that have absolutely no friends? I'm thinking there were an awful lot of atomic wedgies in this group.

donc - That is the only poster I am reply that to and I shouldn't get suckered in.

For those of you who think "season = over", and that the Phils should be sellers - all because their 9.5 out of first - please be gently reminded that the 2007 Phillies were 7 games out on September 12th.

That's not a prediction, but it is to say that it's still too early to make any kind of determination, especially with Doc, Howie and Nix out, and having gotten exactly one game from Chase Utley.


Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee have ERA's of 4.32 and 4.87 their last 6 starts.

Do you expect that to continue?

If the Doc we all "know" comes back, and Lee and Hamels revert to norm (he doesn't have to be that good just better than KK), this team - with Blanton tossing an occasional gem and Worley, whose ERA has IMPROVED since he returned from the DL - is perfectly capable of making a run - and they know it.

The bullpen will probably continue to be an issue, but it will become less glaring once the SP normalizes.

The offense has been scoring since May 1st, and is likely to improve even with a diminished Utley in the lineup providing an upgrade.

It ain't over yet.

All our friends are on here. Who really cares who has friends and who gets wedgies. This site allows us to post our thoughts ideas and comments. Front or back ones?

This team was cooked from Day 1. The pieces that were brought in were for the bench only. Not suitable everyday players.

Thome provided some great moments for the phans when he DH'd. But did anyone think really, that he could play 1b? Qualls was just bad from the jump.

Whether or not they sell or buy is not going to change things much. I believe they won't be buyers as they won't take on any more payroll. Not getting Youk showed us that.

They may not be sellers either. Thay won't get much value back (unless Hamels goes, and maybe not even then), and they don't have replacements for Polly, Vic, Pence or whomever. So they might just keep these guys.

OTOH, they're not making the playoffs and they can't just let players walk and get nothing. So RAJ's in a tough spot. I've said it before, he can't fix this team. They're not good enough now. And noone they could bring in will be a difference-maker at this point.

Is Trout/Harper the best rookies combo ever? Start puts that debate to rest:

1. Mays and Mantle (1951)
2. Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks and Al Kaline (1954)
3. Albert Pujols and Ichiro Suzuki (2001)
4. Cal Ripken Jr., Wade Boggs and Ryne Sandberg (1982)


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings120629/mike-trout-bryce-harper-potentially-all-time-greats

MG: Quit being dopey and replying to PPP. You complain about him and he is obviously saying things just to get dopes into arguments and there you are all the time responding to him.

awh - That was a historical collapse though and a clear outlier. I do think the Phils won't get back enough pieces in time to right the ship & will end up a few games out of the 2nd WC. Just my wild guess.

They have plenty of time over the next month though to play better. I would be curious to see the numbers but I would imagine that has more than 9-10 GB deficit on July 1st since the modern division alignment is almost never overcome.

People criticized Selig for the 2nd WC (thought it was unnecessary this year) but it certainly keeps things interesting for almost every team in baseball. Can't imagine baseball fans would be willing to go back to an alignment where most teams were buried by early August.

This team was cooked from Day 1. The pieces that were brought in were for the bench only. Not suitable everyday players.

_________________________________________

Only on Beerleaguer can someone say something this stupid and pretend like it is a valid argument.

You could translate that sentence into, "Amaro didn't do what I wanted him to or what my fake sources said he could've done."

Well, if Selig was hoping to keep overall interest in baseball through the season longer, the 2nd WC has accomplished that.

As long as it's a possibility, diehard fools like us will continue to invest entirely too much time and energy in a team that probably has no real business being in the playoffs anyway (though I won't argue if the Phils find a way in).

Great for casual interest and Selig's smartest move as Commish. Glad to see NCAA football is coming to it's senses, as well, just a shame that it's waiting until 2014 to do so.

"People criticized Selig for the 2nd WC (thought it was unnecessary this year) but it certainly keeps things interesting for almost every team in baseball. Can't imagine baseball fans would be willing to go back to an alignment where most teams were buried by early August."

Agreed. And the 2nd WC is where RAJ really mssed up. He thought his team would be good enough. They're not. What he has though is enough time to right the ship for 2013. Whether he does is another conversation for another day. Have a great weekend everyone!

Ohhh PPPlease. Thome injured his back running the bases, silly...not playing first base once a week, as he did the first month of the season.

I'm clearly in the minority here, but I hate the 2nd WC. It further cheapens both the regular & Postseason, & will make the trade deadline far less interesting as borderline teams stand pat on the chance that they'll be just good enough to get by.

GTown_Dave & MG, PPPure idiot d-bags.

I'm clearly in the minority here, but I hate the 2nd WC. It further cheapens both the regular & Postseason, & will make the trade deadline far less interesting as borderline teams stand pat on the chance that they'll be just good enough to get by.

Posted by: GTown_Dave | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 01:04 PM

Yeah, the possibility of fans following their teams in the postseason and one game playoffs are far less exciting than moron talking about possible trades at the trade deadline.

GTown_Dave & MG, PPPure idiot d-bags.

Posted by: pissy pants posse | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 01:07 PM

You know when you are winning a discussion when someone else signs on as you and writes something inflammatory. Stay classy.

O's look like the ideal trading partner. Little to nothing on the farm.Haven't seen AAA team but from what I've seen at AA Waring and Oliver might give you half a chance.

I like Thome just as much as anybody else, but there was a day when, if you couldn't field the ball, you were done. This trade will provide a lifetime of barroom bragging for whomever we get, 'cause he'll never make the show. Hey, do I sound negative? Sorry - burned a day off on yesterday's phutility phest.

I'll all for optimism but for the people that cite 2007 as proof positive that they can turn things around are flat out idiots. So because it happened in the past I can assume that the health levels/production of Utley and Howard will be just as they were that year right? Some of these fans are more hopeless than the team itself.

I agree with your stance on the 2nd Wild Card GTown. I have hated it from day one. And the impact it will have on the deadline is really going to suck.

This stretch before the All Star break is the Alamo. We can't play our way back into it in these next few series but we can sure play our way out of it.

Damn ppp is still on my sack. He wants some one game playoffs huh?! YEAH! Let's cheapen the regular season! Let's do it. Baseball used to be a war of attrition and that's what made it beautiful. Oh and I guess the final day last year wasn't enough drama huh? It's bad enough the DS is a crapshoot right now since they still have not made it a 7 game series.

Dave - I didn't mind it being added since both WC teams have to play the 1-game elimination game. Always disliked that a WC didn't have to win their division and yet didn't take a hit for it.

Only way it really cheapens the season is if down the road a 84 or 85 win team makes the WC but that is highly unlikely. Going to take 89-90 wins most years.

I would still rather see 2 divisions, 2 WC (getting rid of Interleague play too) but that doesn't work with 15 teams in each league.

Best piece on the 2nd wild card...read it when it came out, still agree today:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/joe_sheehan/02/29/wild.card/index.html

Let's have 24 Wild Card teams.
And do away with leagues and divisions.

"OTOH, they're not making the playoffs..."


Dom, since you're so certain, what odds will you give me in a bet?

Joe D - Find it odd though in the piece that Sheehan finds that winning the current division doesn't mean as much as it did from '69-'93 alignment but then complains how the '2nd best team' in baseball might get a WC if they don't win their division. Logical inconsistency.

I have grown to dislike Interleague play more than the WC issue. Much rather see NL Central/West teams in Philly twice a year again consistently.

Fans apparently still like it though because Interleague numbers this year were strong again. As long as that keeps up, it is here to stay.

MG: Not to split hairs here -- I agree that having both WC teams play an elimination game is a (relatively speaking) good thing -- but say it does take at least 89 wins to qualify. The Phillies would need to play at a .631 WP the rest of the way to win 89 games this season. The chances of that happening are so small as to be practically negligible. Does that really leave the team another month to "see where they stand"? I'd say it leaves these next 9 games, all w/in the division & leading up to the All-Star Break. If the Phillies don't catch fire & begin beating NL East teams, it's sellin' time.

I can't believe JW has let this PPP circus go on as long as he has. PPP (whoever they are) continues to troll everyone trying to have a conversation. Most posters on here - whether they agree with each other or not - can normally hash out their arguments reasonably or learn to co-exist. PPP adds nothing to this site and merely exists to antagonize and derail conversation. This has been a miserable place to be over the last few weeks since whoever started using the PPP handle.

Weitzel: wise up and ban this fool before the conversation on this site devolves even more than it already has.

"...more than 9-10 GB deficit on July 1st since the modern division alignment is almost never overcome."


MG, don't take this personally (OK, go ahead, I don't care!) but you and some of the other people on this board have VACUOUSLY short memories.

The 2011 WS Champs were 10.5 back on September 5th.

MG - yeah that is definitely a flaw in his logic and backing of it but the point he is really trying to make is that the 2nd best team in a strong division will be screwed and have to play in a "coin flip game" while other weak teams sit and wait for the playoffs to start. I don't think that point can be argued and I agree that it will become a problem at some point.

I agree with you on interleague play. I'm over it. The biggest problem with it is that teams don't play the same opponents as their divisional rivals.

Comparing a 7 game series to a play-in is pretty solid. No really it is.

I will assume (without losing sleep) that in Sept. 7 2012, the Phillies will be atleast 11-14 games out. They will not come back.

RAJ love extends far and wide. I recently moved further outside of the DC Metro area in VA, and just checked out a local sandwich/salad/coffee shop. On the wall were a few autographed pictures. One of which was Ruben Amaro Jr. in his Angels uni. Crazy.

/I have a picture.

I doubt a 100 year old guy will bring value like a Victorino would, or a Blanton if they get a cheese steak and fries for BIG Jim that's ok as well. How-ever I would try and package Stink A Rino and Wimpie [Blanton] off

r00b puts those pictures up wherever he goes so as to be able to admire himself while he eats.

I offer an apology to the rest of the board.

As the one who, with the assistance of Raul's grandpa, coined the phrase "Pissy Pants Posse", I apoligize to the rest of you for the troll who misuses the moniker only to detract from the conversation.

He/she is best ignored.

My deepest apoligies.

"I have grown to dislike Interleague play more than the WC issue. Much rather see NL Central/West teams in Philly twice a year again consistently."


MG, on this point we agree. Interleague play cheapens the WS. Period.

"...the 2nd best team in a strong division will be screwed and have to play in a "coin flip game" while other weak teams sit and wait for the playoffs to start."

JoeD, that's always been the case. Some divisions are weaker than others - they rotate - but some always have been.

Listening to Mike Missanelli and I just heard this quote.

“I gave us a chance to win,” Kendrick said. “I pitched deep into the game. They needed me to pitch deep into the game. I did that. We were in the game. We had a chance to win the game. Yeah, you never want to give up runs, but I was happy with myself to go deep like that and give us a chance.”

Ladies and gentleman, the poster child for the 2012 Phils and their annoyingly consistent mediocrity.

I think its time for the Phils to change his initials from KK to DFA. YOU CANNOT HAVE THIS TYPE OF ATTITUDE AROUND THIS TEAM ANYMORE.

IMO the extra WC makes the regular season more important, not less. We'll see how many wildcards win the WS now after burning pitchers in that 1-gamer. Maybe it will be no big deal.

Lol Kendrick. This team is just so laid back and content. It's amazing to me.

I'm hoping this scenario plays out again, as it has during other seasons:

A) Certain people on this site declare the season over, call anyone who says otherwise an idiot.

B) The Phils catch fire in the second half and make the playoffs.

C) When quotes from June/July are brought up that were written by certain people, said people dig in and say it looked over then, so you're all still idiots for thinking it wasn't over, and how dare you bring up things I said months ago.

My favorite is when optimists, not ready to declare the season over before the halfway point, cite examples of teams who have come out of larger holes to make the playoffs (or even win the WS) and people take that to mean they EXPECT the Phillies to be fine.

Everyone knows that possible =/= likely,

but you also have to remember that unlikely =/= impossible.

Please don't use Kendrick's quote as a sweeping brush to pain the entire team as complacent.

If Kendrick really feels that way, then yeah, he is an idiot. I guarantee you most, if not all, of the other players do not have that same attitude toward their own performances.

"Weitzel: wise up and ban this fool before the conversation on this site devolves even more than it already has."

Even better, how about requiring readers to sign up for a username/password? You can't tell me that Joe Schmoe's Anime Fanboard can figure out how to implement this, but a highly popular Comcast-owned blog is limited to the Wordpress default.

IMO the extra WC makes the regular season more important, not less. We'll see how many wildcards win the WS now after burning pitchers in that 1-gamer. Maybe it will be no big deal.

Posted by: Mick O | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 02:13 PM

It's this thought that bothers me. The supposed notion that the team in the WC play-in game will be burning their best pitcher is speculative, at best.

In 2007, the Colorado Rockies had to play a game 163 to make the postseason. Want to know who started for them that game?

Josh Fogg

They had FIVE pitchers on their staff who started at 14 games and posted a better ERA+ than Josh Fogg. Teams will only start their best pitcher in that play-in game if their best pitcher is available to pitch in said play-in game.

Oh, and just to bring it home a bit, guess who ended up starting game 1 of the NLDS for the Rockies? Jeff Francis, their best pitcher that year, and it was against our Philadelphia Phillies.

The extra WC, like ALL extra playoff spots, further diminishes the importance of the regular season. The two 2nd WC hopefuls will likely not have the luxury of aligning their rotation to get that #1 pitcher in the play-in game. And it's just as likely that the winner of said play-in game still has their ace available for NLDS game 1 as it's always been.

My favorite is when optimists, not ready to declare the season over before the halfway point, cite examples of teams who have come out of larger holes to make the playoffs (or even win the WS) and people take that to mean they EXPECT the Phillies to be fine.

Everyone knows that possible =/= likely,

but you also have to remember that unlikely =/= impossible.

Posted by: Cyclic | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 02:18 PM

Agreed. The claim that the Phillies made up 7 games in 17 days is not a suggestion that they will do that again. That is highly unlikely. The point is that comebacks on the order of 9 games over 90 games happen all the time: they are not particularly uncommon.

It is not likely that the Phillies will win the division, but it is possible. It is also unlikely but possible that they will fall to 20 games back. The spread of possible outcomes with 90 games to play is huge - way higher than people think.

B) The Phils catch fire in the second half and make the playoffs.

Posted by: Iceman | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 02:17 PM

Ice, this would be ok if this were the standard that we are holding this team to. But when this is apparently the ceiling for this team, that is not ok. Not when you have a $170M payroll. Yeah, they've had injuries, but if the team can only hope to sneak into the playoffs while the overall talent level declines, then it probably makes more sense to get a head start on refreshing said talent level.

Personally, I don't think they will make the playoffs. I'm perfectly willing, if they do, to admit that I was wrong.

Every time Kendrick opens his mouth, he comes off more an more like Adam Eaton.

This is not a good thing.

Awh: Einstein
Me: Oppenheimer
ppp: Third world terrorist who steals old medical nuclear waste to make a dirty bomb

Ice, I don't believe everyone on this team thinks the same way that Kendrick does. However, allowing a guy to make comments like that is a problem when you are basically in last place and not in a playoff spot.

They need players with fire and passion. Not guys like Kendrick. Unfortunately, its getting to a point where they literally have no one to replace him.

541, if you have a legitimate shot to make the playoffs in any given year, you go for it. That's not even remotely debatable.

Get in the dance, you have a chance.

Oh dang you're right. One time the play-in winner got away without using their best pitcher(s). And bullpen usage is never going to be an issue. That proves it. It is now proven to be no obstacle whatsoever.

Sorry to bother you with this notion.

Also, furious second-half comebacks are the most fun you can possibly have as a sports fan.

I think giving up on a team at this point is sort of like leaving a game when you're losing by 3 or 4 runs in the 9th inning: you're going to beat the traffic and most of the time you don't miss anything, but on the 1-in-10 chance you do miss a comeback, you inevitably miss out on an unforgettable experience.

Kendrick is doing a very convincing Adam Eaton impression, both with his comments and his attitude.

On another note, believe me, I hope that we do go on a post-All Star Break tear and win the division, or at least secure a Wild Card.

Yes, I know that the 2007 Phillies fought back to the top of the division, but that was five years ago. Our core has aged, regressed in talent and is far more injury prone. Our farm is depleted and our budget is maxed out, making a mid-season acquisition unlikely, and the bulk of our bullpen is AAA-level, at best.

This is not the young team on the rise that it was in 2007. This is an old team on the decline, and with the amount of money owed to Howard, Halladay, Lee and Pap and the current state of our farm, it may be the last opportunity we have for a very long time to add some young talent to this club.

Unless you think that Gillies, Aumont, Brown and Gosewisch are going to ride into town in the next several years to continue this run of success, it is time to take action with the future in mind.

Playing out the odds for a WFC with this team, as it is, will all but guarantee a long era of very poor baseball in Philadelphia.

Know when to hold 'em.
Know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away and know when to run.

As a kid the only chance we ever got to see AL stars like Kaline, Yastrzemski, Brooks and later Frank Robinson were on the Saturday game of the week with Curt Gowdy and Tony Kubek (among others). Now you only need a basic cable subscription to catch a dozen or more AL games a week. In the old days inter-league play would have been very cool. Today, who gives a sh!t? You can follow any team or player you want with ease. So it is unnecessary for the fan and down right unfair to the teams.
Gone are the days of everyone in your division playing the same schedule. And I agree with others, I'd much rather see the Dodgers or Giants twice a year than see the Twins or Royals. Not a big fan of IL play. Disliked it from the start. I can say the same for the WC, though I must admit I grew to like it pretty quickly. I like the idea of 8 teams making the post season. I think that is a good number. The extra one doesn't bother me too much as it nothing more than an opportunity for a one game play in but on balance I think I'd rather they left it the way it was. I reserve the right to change my mind on that one once we've actually seen it in action though.

DH-- That is a wonderful analogy.

But I don't think it's the 9th inning yet.

Mick 0, don't be a jerk. I was responding to your post in which you stated that you think the 2nd WC makes the regular season MORE important because it forces teams to burn their best pitcher in the play-in game.

But since the rotation has to line up correctly for this to happen, there's really only a 1/3-1/5 chance that the 2nd WC will even be able to use their best pitcher.

Point being, it's more likely than not that the 2nd WC winner is going to enter the postseason with their best pitcher available to start game 1 of the NLDS.

As such, I still think it cheapens the regular season.

Does anyone want the regular season of baseball to be as important as it is in basketball or hockey, where more than half the league makes the playoffs? I don't, and this 2nd WC is a step in that direction.

I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong come October for the way I feel right now.

For the record, I believe the highly annoying, and not remotely clever, poster named pissy pants posse is most likely one of the following posters from Beerleaguers past:

1. polly
2. Wes Chamberlain
3. mikes77
4. mvptommyd

Outside possibilities are JJG and CJ -- though I'm pretty sure it's not CJ, who is usually polite & capable of being funny.

541, if you have a legitimate shot to make the playoffs in any given year, you go for it. That's not even remotely debatable.

Get in the dance, you have a chance.

Posted by: Fatalotti | Friday, June 29, 2012 at 02:27 PM

I did mention that their only hope was to "sneak" into the playoffs. I believe the tipping point is when legitimate becomes still possible but not likely. Like I said, I don't think they will make the playoffs this year. I don't think that their playoff chance has become illegitimate enough to completely bag the season, but I think when it becomes unlikely its time to make moves.

I guess its just really hard to come to grips with the fact that this has become a team who is concerned with finding a way in to the tournament rather than wondering who will be there main competition in the tournament.

My contention was that the wild cards will have to "burn pitchers" - not necessarily their best pitchers every single year, but definitely their better pitchers. My prediction is that year-after-year, the fact that both WC teams have to use extra pitchers, a starter, maybe their closer, etc. will result in fewer WCs winning the World Series. Will some WCs catch fire and do it anyways? Of course. We'll see over time what effect it has.


I agree with DH Phils, though, that if this team were to rebound, make the playoffs on the last day, and run through to the WS, and become the eventual champions, that would be one incredibly memorable season.

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