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Wednesday, June 06, 2012

Comments

Mayberry looks awful, and I don't buy that him playing first is a significant factor.

Pierre has earned his time to date, but hopefully he's the odd man out when/if Howard returns or the Phils acquire a 1B/LF.

In all fairness, if Mayberry was the starting LF all year, we'd have a worst record than we do today.

Don't blame Pierre, blame Mayberry.

actually rephrase: Blame Pierre, but blame Mayberry more.

After missing the entire season except for the last 6 games, Carlos Quentin now has 31 total bases. Mayberry has totaled 45 bases in 53 games.

This wonderful cast of characters has scored 1 run or less in 25% of the games this year. Damn that's tasty. I know how they can fix it...they should definitely add another starting pitcher or an elite setup man. That should do the trick.

And here were the opposing starters that shut this potent offense down:

Erik Bedard (they won this game)
Jeff Karstens
Jonathon Niese
Matt Cain
Cory Luebke
Anthony Bass
Paul Maholm
Matt Garza
Gio Gonzalez x2
Edinson Volquez
Josh Beckett
Carlos Zambrano
Chad Billingsley
Posted by: Joe D | Wednesday, June 06, 2012 at 08:56 AM

* * *

Joe D - Scoring 1 run or less in ONE QUARTER of our games is dreadful, I agree.

About the pitchers we faced in those games - Many of those pitchers who held the Phillies to 0-1 R are good pitchers.

In recent years past, when the Phillies would be shut down by a starter throwing well, however, they would often get to the BP. And they would usually get to the starter when he started to tire (like the Dodgers got to Lee last night), too.

Posted by: GBrettFan | Wednesday, June 06, 2012 at 09:35 AM

Also noticed that Jimmy Rollins finally passed Freddy Galvis in OPS after last night - yay?. Not really, its more because of Gavlis' .495 OPS in the last two weeks than it is Rollins' robust .298 OBP during the same span.

But Rollins has been doing better, lorecore. And it's always a good thing when a player is hitting. Let's hope it continues.

Whoa, my words used in a BL post for the first time. An honor.

TTI, I didn't get in the house until the middle of the top of the 8th. Either way, I have a standing position that 1) Pierre should play rarely, as I don't think he's a good player and 2) that Pierre is a far inferior defender to Mayberry, and that any time we are in a tight game in the late innings, Mayberry should be roaming LF, so as to maximize our defenisve abilities. I've stated this several times before in the past.

When a manager's likability of a player trumps his product,both on offense and defense there will be questions. ultimately the manager is responsible.

Dbacks unhappy with Upton but I doubt he is obtainable.As I posted several times before,see what it takes to get Chisenhall.

Joe D - Scoring 1 run or less in ONE QUARTER of our games is dreadful, I agree.

About the pitchers we faced in those games - Many of those pitchers who held the Phillies to 0-1 R are good pitchers.

In recent years past, when the Phillies would be shut down by a starter throwing well, however, they would often get to the BP. And they would usually get to the starter when he started to tire (like the Dodgers got to Lee last night), too.

Posted by: GBrettFan | Wednesday, June 06, 2012 at 09:35 AM

Posted by: GBrettFan
-------
Oh I know there are some legit arms on that list. I was just putting it out there. And yes in years past they would be able to actually work a count here or there to get into the pen like you suggest. This team doesn't have a Jayson Werth type of player anymore. Where do they stand in the league in pitches per plate appearance?

A good thing on Brown is that I heard he had an assist last night as well. I am still hanging by a thread that he can be an impact player. Please let it happen. Please. Especially when I see Harper getting a game winning hit last night. I need to see a young blood transfusion with this team in the very near future.

Here's one major reason this whole thing isn't working:

.248/.317/.396

That's the slash line for Shane Victorino, who's mired in his worst offensive season since 2007. Shane was supposed to help provide for the extra-base hits while Howard and Utley were ailing; he has 19.

"I will lead the league in triples."

"No you're not."

Mayberry has been $hit. He doesn't deserve to play. Try and trade Pierre now for anything and call up Dom Brown and let him play every day because the Phils aren't winning this season and it's time they start developing some cheap talent from within.

For that reason they need to trade Blanton and call up Cloyd. Let Diekman and Savery in the bullpen the rest of the season. Hope Stutes comes back healthy and Schwimer can find his control.

They're 28-29, but a bad team. Who knows when Utely and Howard will be back and how effective they'll even be. Doc is hurt and who knows when he'll be back and how he'll pitch upon his return. This is looking like a lost season. Gonna have to trade Vic and Hamels and restock the system. Hate to see Hamels go, but how can they afford to give him $23M+ per season with Halladay, Lee, and Howard already making that much.

"I will lead the league in triples."

"No you're not."

Posted by: Malcolm

Hahahaha I'm so sick of that commercial and really sick of it now.

I will say this for Pierre: he has the best bat control I may have ever seen in a Phillies player. I don't think it's just luck that he gets those bloops and bleeders to fall in. I don't quite know what value it gives to a player if that's pretty much his only skill (excepting low-percentage base stealing), but I don't think he's what ails the Phillies so much as the incompleteness of skills around him. If you put the skill sets of say, Hunter Pence, Shane Victorino, and Juan Pierre together, you'd have a great player. Collectively, they make for a mediocre outfield. On the right team - or, yes, if the stars are aligned right -Pierre's MO could compliment an offense rather handily, even to the extent he's played this year. It doesn't seem to work so great with this one.

"I will lead the league in triples."

"No you're not."

Ha. I am pretty sure the Phils are dead last in the league in triples as a team. Didn't see that coming. Rollins leads them with 2.

"As I posted several times before,see what it takes to get Chisenhall."

He's the cost-controlled building block of a reasonably up-and-coming team. He's as gettable as Howard is tradeable, only somewhat less so.

Agree with everything you said GM except the Hamels point. I don't think there is absolutely anyway they can justify trading him or letting him walk. They need him now while he is about to hit his prime. The question is whether or not Hamels wants to play 1972 Carlton while this team retools in all other areas. I also have zero faith in Amaro, Jr. to make a deal of an ace and bring back a good prospect haul. We don't need to look far to find his failures in that area.

Is this troll-bait? His OBP would rank him at around 20th in the league. Not all players values are well-measured with the same stats. Hitting near the top of the order, OBP is a pretty important stat. Would it be better to have someone with a high OBP and a high SLG? Of course. But sheece.

Yes, I would rather see Mayberry get consistent ABs so it can really be more definitively established whether his 2nd half of last year was a complete fluke. But I could see where the Phillies have decided that Mayberry is only a bench player based on his career minor league stats - and in that case, giving Pierre ABs makes total sense unless in limited time Mayberry proves he deserves more time.

The overall offense is meh, the starting pitching is meh, and the bullpen is less than meh. It is what it is. Hatin' on Pierre as a "succubus?" Really?

from previous thread-
Dom Freaking Brown is hitting bombs and starting fights! The kid is back! Bring him up!
http://www.zoowithroy.com/2012/06/video-iron-pigs-bench-clearer-domonic.html

Last night's loss was really frustrating, as has been the season. Very 'old school' move by Manuel giving Lee enough rope to hang himself (er, a curve) in the eighth.

The drumbeat of trade Victorino, Blanton, etc. is a bit much. It's June 6. Nobody's getting traded on June 6. Check back in a month, please. They're going to play this hand, as they should. If Brown gets on a roll, and Nix never gets better, he could come up. Other than that, not happening.

Agree with the dislike of Pierre as a concept, while appreciating that Pierre has largely earned his playing time with his banjo. Not so much in the OF, where he can be downright comical. Manuel basically changed his mind from this Spring when he said Mayberry was going to get 'every chance' to play this year.

I think Pierre is helping us, not hurting. But he can't carry a team the way that Howard can when hot. No one player can do it alone.

Charlie said it himself a few weeks ago. This team needs multiple hits in order to score. So in the sense that Pierre exemplifies a team devoid of power, then yes, he's the problem.

I heard Ricky Bo a few weeks ago talking about having spoken with Charlie. "He knows what he's got" in this year's team, Ricky said. "He acknowledged this team doesn't have speed, and doesn't have power." Then Ricky added his own observation, "So what do you have?"

I guess the answer at the time was pitching, but then Halladay went down (and this may have been just before Worley got hurt, too).

As I said in the previous thread. This team has holes upon holes. I can get on Charlie for some things but ultimately he didn't craft this team. The talent is flat out not there. That falls on the GM, a GM who has this team on the escalator down since 2009. The same GM who can only sign big checks.

Mayberry has earned his way to the bench with his overall lack of power & his horrendous numbers vs RHP this year (.211/.277/.250 with 0 HRs in 72 ABs).

Maybe it screwed up his stance by having to concentrate on playing 1st in spring training but he was pulling off the ball & not hitting for power from the very get go in spring training.

Mayberry is like Pierre. He can help a team in certain ways but gets overexposed if he is the everyday starter.

Part of the issue is that Nix went down. When he was available, you could start him vs RHP and sit either Mayberry/Wigginton who have been dreadful vs RHP so far.

The team is 7th in the league in SLG. Not stellar for sure, but not exactly "devoid of power," either. Of the 9 teams with lower SLG - three are in the division and ahead of them in the standings.

SLG is not the root of this team's problems. All around meh play is the root of this team's problems. That's why their record is meh.

Vic is so lost at plate a GPS couldn't help him get around. He's making it a lot easier to say bye bye. Thanks for the slam in 08.

I agree that had Mayberry proven himself, we'd not only be in better shape, but he'd be getting more starts in the OF in place of Pierre.

I also agree that Mayberry should be a defensive replacement for Pierre in late innings. I surmise that the only reason Charlie would sub in Bruntlett for Burrell and not Mayberry for Pierre is because he felt more confident of someone else getting the hits after Burrell sat, whereas he feels like Pierre can be counted on for a hit or a productive out - unlike most (any?) of the rest of the lineup. Since hits and runs are at a premium, he chances the D of Pierre in hopes that he can help us score runs.

Yeah, it was better in the Burrell/Bruntlett days, offensively speaking and in terms of late-inning rallies.

Also - I can't remember - Did Charlie routinely sub in Bruntlett for Burrell in tied games or games when we were behind, or was it usually when the team was ahead in late innings?

The team is 7th in the league in SLG. Not stellar for sure, but not exactly "devoid of power," either. Of the 9 teams with lower SLG - three are in the division and ahead of them in the standings.

SLG is not the root of this team's problems. All around meh play is the root of this team's problems. That's why their record is meh.

Posted by: Phlipper

* *
Ok. I can accept that. Hopefully, it also means that we can get all cylnders firing at once soon and put up a nice, long streak of mostly winning games.

RE: Brown video...wow that got my blood flowing. I was fired up.

Boy these announcers are incredibly annoying. The one guy is basically crying that it is all going down. It's baseball man. Would you rather sit back and enjoy your lifeless 7-0 AAA game? C'mon dude.

My guess is that there are two reasons why Charlie doesn't routintely replace Pierre in the outfield relatively early in the game as he did with Burrell.

First, he thinks that Burrell was significantly worse defensively. Arguable, given Burrell's much better arm, but not entirely unreasonable. I had a sense that Charlie was concerned about wear and tear on Burrell. Given his health problems after leaving the team, there may have been some validity in such a concern.

Pierre as a 4th OF would be a great addition. To his credit, he's been better than I thought he would be so far. I thought he would hit an empty .270-.280 with a .320-.330 OBP providing zero power, poor defense, and mediocre baserunning.

Regardless, they are going to have to stop-gap LF the rest of the year. Once they get some more pieces back, hopefully they can move back to a platoon of Nix/Mayberry which is what I wanted to see originally out there at the start of the year.

Maybe Charlie pulled the plug on Mayberry too early but he definitely felt like the season could have been lost in April. Pierre gave him the best chance to help keep the teams head above water. As far as why Mayberry isn't in as a defensive replacement..who knows? But I do know that with this roster I don't even think it is possible for God himself to guide these guys to wins. Charlie should go at season's end just so that this team heads down a new path but my man has an awful job right now.

I am hoping that Rueben doesn't lead us into a Cubs like ice age for the next ten years... The team stinks and you start t o notice that you are paying 5 dollars for a bottle of water and 10 dollars for a sandwich and a fortune for seats for a wishy washy team...

Seriously? Pierre is the type of player we need, who doesn't have to swing for the fences to make an impact. I don't get the point of this post at all and it reminds me why I only check this site once every other week these days. Pierre is one of the only consistent performers we have.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also have the impression that Pierre has done a better job of "situational hitting," than any other player on the team thus far this year - probably with the exception of Chooch. Given the amount of comments attributing the poor record to poor situational hitting, I would think that Pierre would get a few more props. He has had some base-running blunders, but he has also used his speed to good advantage on a number of occasions.

The whole offense was playing horribly at the beginning of the season but everyone is set to point out Mayberry & it being his fault. That he shouldn't be starting.

If that is the case then half this team doesn't deserve to be on the field.

Look at what Charlie did with Ibanez. When he was hitting horribly he let him play while Mayberry was by some miracle playing his butt off in non consistent roles ( day or 2 here and there, replacement, etc ).

It takes CONSISTENT at bats to get a groove going. Mayberry hasn't really been giving this chance lately.

Also playing different positions DOES affect a player because they are having to think outside their normal mindset, especially when the play.

The guy has 808 innings played in the OF, his natural position & is being FORCED to play 1B with 3 other players. That will screw a hitters mindset up big time.

If they aren't going to start him full time in LF then they need to have him starting all 3 positions more consistently to at least form somewhat of a rhythm in hitting.

People forget we have a CF and RF that aren't exactly playing at all star levels.

JW is right about the naysayers who hated Ks and wanted more contact.

No NL team makes more contact when they swing than the Phils (83.4%) or misses less pitches (7.5%) when they swing.

Never understood the harping about the Ks. Could care less about them especially from Burrell and Howard who also walked at incredibly high rates.

I just hope to wake up one day and only have to think about one problem with this team and not 500. Makes me so sad.

"No NL team makes more contact when they swing than the Phils (83.4%) or misses less pitches (7.5%) when they swing. "

Huh? What happened to that other 9.1%

MG - Are we allowed to complain about pop-ups? And stranding RISP with fewer than 2 outs? I hope so, 'cause those are my pet peeves.

Completely agree with jw that it is the concept of Juan Pierre which is the most bothersome. Also agree that he'll eventually revert to the .275 hitter (give or take .10 pts) that he has been for 2 years running. But, no one who's living in the real world can possibly suggest that we'd have been better off right now if Mayberry had been starting all the games that Pierre has started:

Juan Pierre's stats against RHP: .364/.401/.417/.818

John Mayberry's stats against RHP: .211/.277/.250/.527

If you were assigning blame for the Phillies' offensive problems, Mayberry would get plenty. Pierre would get very little.

Did you mean puts more balls in play when they swing? In other words, the 9.1% was fouls?

Can someone tell me where this offense stands in pitches per AB?

This anti-Pierre obsession is getting absurd, JW.

I think Manuel's "plug pulling" of JMJ is being overstated. He has 140 PAs in 57 games despite being a complete joke against RHP.

The Nix injury definitely hurt. He's a threat against RHP even when he's scuffling.

DOM is the f'n man. AABerry throwing smoke and mirrors in our front office's face at the end of 2011 hurt 2012 way more than it helped in 2011.

They pop up with men on 3rd w/ less than two outs. I bet most of the singles they hit are with 2 outs.(i.e. meaningless).The pitching is OK, but their offense mirror their opponents.. When the team they're facing scores <3 runs, so do they. If a team scores 6 runs, we score 4 or 5. One of the most frustrating 56 games in a long time.

What bothers me the most, is that shitty effort that he made to save the eigth inning. Can't really blame him to much for taking Jr.'s spot because he is getting on base. This lineup can't plate him.

but..that 2 out fly ball in the eight...Pat Burrell would have corralled that. How can a guy as athletic as Pierre be so shakey in the outfield. It defies convention.

also, Erik Kratz is a bitch. He should have went out and put a beating on that pitcher, although after DOM did cartwheels all over the field, I'm surprised the pitcher didnt hit Kratz in the face with the next pitch instead of the arm.

Juan Pierres stats vs LHP: 160 192 160 352

Mayberrys stats vs LHP: 273 268 473 741

Since a few people are adamant about posting Mayberrys #s vs RHP ( when he is a right handed batter ).

They are two different types of players but considering how this team was put together ( shoddy as hell ) its causing all kinds of wtfs.

Whose next in line for the GM position?

DOM is the f'n man. AABerry throwing smoke and mirrors in our front office's face at the end of 2011 hurt 2012 way more than it helped in 2011.

Posted by: lorecore

For real. I mostly pride myself as being a baseball purist and typically frown upon this type of antics but damn that was refreshing to see. Even more refreshing when you watch the big club play lifeless night in and night out. That's the type of swag this team is missing right now. Get it Dom.

We realize Mayberry is right handed, Me. But so are most pitchers. Hence the validity of those stats in the debate over his and Pierre's playing time to date.

Pierre had extremely strong reserve splits over his last 4 seasons - the fact that he has hit so drastically better vs RHP this season is something that came out of nowhere.

Me: What's your point? No one is suggesting that Pierre should start over Mayberry against LHP.

Those minor league announcers were awful. The pitcher for the Braves (or whoever) was being a complete jerk. He was yelling at everybody and pointing Fradsen back to the dugout. That was one of the times a guy deserved to get shown up. Brown one upped the clown. Well done. Let's get some of that up here!

So do you now dump trade Mayberry for some POS bullpen piece?

Phlipper: Dead last in walk rate.

Being mediocre in SLG would be a lot better if anyone was ever on base for those hits.

Excellent post. I keep waiting for the Phillies to figure out that Pierre is a nice extra man - at most. He has too many deficiencies to be playing every day and isn't even the basestealer he once was (and even then, he got caught stealing too often).

I did not want Pierre to make the team out of spring training but he did and I must admit I am surprised by his batting averate and OBP. But Mayberry might have caught that ball by Herrera last night and I want him playing pretty much every day. He still has potential upside - Pierre does not.

Those minor league announcers were awful. The pitcher for the Braves (or whoever) was being a complete jerk. He was yelling at everybody and pointing Fradsen back to the dugout. That was one of the times a guy deserved to get shown up. Brown one upped the clown. Well done. Let's get some of that up here!

Posted by: gobaystars!

I wanted that Braves clown to throw one up in the booth. Awful. And yeah Brown definitely showed that fool. I wonder how/if at all Sandberg addressed Brown afterwards. I bet he probably loved it.

People are saying they want Mayberry to play but the front office thinks this team can still win and right now Manuel thinks that watching Pierre get bunt doubles is the most likely way the team can win. I can't say I agree with him but when you have the false hope that this team is anything more than a middling bunch then I don't know what to tell you. They should see what they have in Mayberry even though he struggled early because this team needs a reboot and the outfield (even Pence if you can find a suitor) should be gutted in all likelihood.

In case anyone was wondering, here's historical stats for the #40 overall pick, where the Phillies chose Shane Watson the other night.

The only position player to ever contribute positively in the major leagues from the #40 pick was Milton Bradley. The best pitchers of the last couple decades to come from the #40 pick were Kevin Tapani and Huston Street.

Last 10 games, Dom Brown is at .415/.455/.756.

I actually agree on giving Brown more time.

However, if he keeps hitting, and it's mid-July and Juan Pierre is ... well, being Juan Pierre, then I think you bring him up and go with a Brown/Mayberry platoon and hope the defense doesn't kill you. Again, we've played Burrell/Ibanez/Pierre in LF for the last 13 years. The idea that LF defense is so important is a radically new one for this front office.

It's so hard to fall into the "Brown as savior" mindset but anymore what the hell else do we have to hold onto?

"Being mediocre in SLG would be a lot better if anyone was ever on base for those hits. "

They're tied for 9th in OBP. Tied with one of the teams ahead of them in the standings, and immediately in front of the team leading the division.

Certainly not stellar, but if "anyone was ever on base" is a bit of an overstatement.

They are pretty much average offensively all across the board, but given that what counts most is a team is balanced in the different metrics, Pierre's relatively high OBP would seem that much more valuable, as their OBP is low relative to their other offensive metrics. (For the record - just noticed that the earlier numbers I mentioned weren't updated for last night's game. They are now 8th in SLG).

Everyone has their hobby horse, but the reality is that it's hard to find any one aspect of this team to blame, although the bullpen does seem to be the farthest below average component of the team. It's the overall level of meh that is the problem - which in a way means that it's more difficult to fix.

joed: "this team needs a reboot and the outfield (even Pence if you can find a suitor) should be gutted in all likelihood."

uh oh, did you go digging into the Phillies playoff odds or something?

We're all frustrated with recent losses, but the idea to quit now and restock the farm is ridiculous.

Phlipper: I'm not convinced that a team should be striving for balance between OBP and SLG - I think OBP is far more important, especially for a top-of-the-lineup hitter. This makes your point stronger.

Pierre's offensive contributions have been very valuable. Unsustainable, and unlikely to continue going forward, but very valuable.

joed: "this team needs a reboot and the outfield (even Pence if you can find a suitor) should be gutted in all likelihood."

uh oh, did you go digging into the Phillies playoff odds or something?

We're all frustrated with recent losses, but the idea to quit now and restock the farm is ridiculous.

Posted by: lorecore

Yep that's what I did. Or you know I said in all likelihood. Meaning that if this level of play keeps up.

Usually this site makes sense, but this argument is ludicrous. Hate to tell you, but Juan is the only one in the lineup who strings together professional at bats. I know he doesn't knock in a tin of runs, but it's because he is a leadoff hitter. If their choke artist middle of the order could come up with some production, Juan would lead the league in runs scored. As for mayberry being the answer, two words, show up. He had his chance and blew it. And don't say it's because he switches positions, because I don't buy that crap. Playing left or first doesn't make your bat slow and pop up every time men are in scoring position. Its time to stop coddling these guys. If u want to play, compete for it. If he is that fragile, what will he do in crunch time? I don't follow ops too much. But I will say I watch exert at bat during the season, and my eyes tell me Juan is the only guy in the lineup who seems to have any type of plan at the during an at bat. When u get another bat , by all mean sit him, but not for the garbage already on the roster.

DH - As you allude to, for me the point is to use a measure that is most relevant for the player's role. That's why OBP is more relevant for top of the order than someone batting cleanup, SLG (or actually, or OBI%) is more relevant for someone batting cleanup. And that's why I think that OPS is overused for individual players, although OPS is more appropriate for the team as a whole because it is a more inclusive metric.

One thing that's really hurting the offense is is the combination of JRoll and Polly's low OBP and Vic's low SLG. That's a bad combo of players not fulfilling their roles on the team very well.

I think Pierre has been doing a decent job. Chalie is simply trying to put the best bat out there at the possibility of sacrificing some defense. It was a tough but doable play, so close. I didnt watch the game but saw the reactions on Lee and the fans a heart breaker. It looks blogs and people are trying to find a escapegoat and yesterday it was Pierre which from day hasnt been liked. However one could say if we had a dependable pen Lee would of been lifted. If the offense didnt fold once its trailing behind in the 8th. If the offense did more to begin with. Theres a lot of ifs, ands or buts. The fact of the matter this is a flawed team right now. Not one flaw not one man but flawed.

Utley with another extended spring HR. Jim Salisbury is live-tweeting from Clearwater. I think they make up the rules as they go along in extended spring, and Howard and Utley are both hitting every inning.

By my count, looking through Salisbury's tweets, there have been 6 innings, so 6 PA for each of them. Howard is 2 for 4 with 2 BBs and Utley is 2 for 5, HR, 2B, BB.

Luis: Agreed, and good post, one of your more put-together thoughts.

Look at Ryno working those ever-elusive Extended Spring Training Walks. Jack might come around to the big piece just yet.

July 4th lineup:
Rollins
Utley
Pence
Howard
Chooch
Brown
Victorino
Polanco
Pitcher

That's a winner!

Phlipper, the Phillies may have the 7th SLG in the NL, but they have the 14th ISO. They don't hit more much power at all. SLG is inflated by singles.

I don't suppose any other BLer's watched the Dodger feed/broadcast last night (I'm in LA, so it was my only video option)?

Lyons made a comment about talking to Vic before the game and asked him how he was doing. He went on to say that something "off the field" is very clearly bothering Vic, and he suspects it has a lot to do with his contract status (that he really wants to re-sign with the Phils, etc.).

At any rate, this was the first I heard anything about Vic's contract status being a distraction, and I was a bit flummoxed as to why I'd hear it first from the opposing team's broadcaster.

"One thing that's really hurting the offense is is the combination of JRoll and Polly's low OBP and Vic's low SLG."

Yep. Of course, unless you've spent the last 3 years in Mauritania, with no Internet connection, it's not like Rollins & Polly's low OBP should have taken anyone by surprise. Vic's low slugging, and all-around pitiful play, is another matter. He has single-handedly debunked the widely-held myth that players perform better in contract years.

Perhaps more a comment on our offensive inadequacies and inability to pull a game out late than anything else, but why does it seem that many other teams manage to plug in fresh, fearless, successful, largely unheralded young bullpen arms -- year in, year out -- who get the job done with plain old good stuff (and not a lot of walks and overall angst) and we rarely have that kind of guy ready to go?

Most recent case in point: Kenley Jansen. And there are many others like him -- not even talking about the studs like Kimbrel or Chapman, et al. These guys seems to show up against us time and time again. I'd love to have a big, intimidating dude of our own out there in the late innings. It ain't Michael Schwimmer from what I've seen, though I think he can be serviceable if used right. I guess if Phillipe Aumont faced our 7-8-9 guys, maybe he'd blow us away too. If he ever gets his edge back.

Gotta write to spark discussion folks. Pierre is not the root of the Phils problems. Wasn't the point. Will be interesting to see how everyone feels about Pierre in October. You want to hear that Shane Victorino needs to "step up" or something obvious, turn on 97.5 then.

JM Sr was at the games over the weekend and was signing autographs, but looked really drunk. Maybe that is the best way to witness what is taking place on the field-- at least it doesn't hurt as much if you are half in the bag.

Phlipper, the Phillies may have the 7th SLG in the NL, but they have the 14th ISO. They don't hit more much power at all. SLG is inflated by singles.

---------

which explains pierre's slugging, 52 hits, 46 of them being singles.

I really do think that Vic wants nothing more than to stay on the Phillies. Barring union pressure Vic would probably sign for much less but I think he is seeing that the Phillies likely want to go in a different direction.

b_a_p: Vic's never been the sharpest tool in the shed. He probably thinks you're supposed to tank in a contract year.

I find it hard to believe that a fan base which suffered through Bobby Abreu for as long as we did would ever accept Juan Pierre as a starter. Both are sub-par fielders (yes Abreu won a Gold Glove but there's no way he deserved it) who hit over .300 but do nothing for the team when it matters most. No Mayberry hasn't played well but at some point you have to remove the player who only performs when the game is well at hand and gamble on the talent that can really help your team which Mayberry has when he is on.

Not to mention that the hardest thing to do in baseball is pinch hit or play one out of every 4 games which is what Mayberry has been struggling with all year

Vic knows the budget is tight so if he tanks the Phills can sign him for less and that way him and Cole can stay. Brilliant!

gobay, I don't disagree. I guess the comment was less shocking in the fact that Vic clearly wants to stay (nothing new there) than it was that he was basically willing to open up to an opposing team's broadcaster that it's become a distraction and is affecting his play.

Victorino absolutely cannot be brought back next year.

"suffered through Bobby Abreu"

This irrational stuff never gets old. BOOOOOO! I hate players with .400 OBP, too.

Point of comparison on Abreu and Pierre - Abreu was adequate with the glove and had a strong arm. Pierre settles under a ball with all the directness of a whiffle ball on a windy day. And, he throws like a kid on a CYO team.

@hugh

I take offense to that as I had a cannon for an arm when I was in grade school ( CYO level )

I couldn't stand watching Phillies-era Abreu play, but he was a far better player than Juan Pierre ... well, at least offensively. I've never seen a more indifferent fielder than Abreu. Pierre might not have any skills in the OF, but he certainly puts in the effort. I don't think anyone will ever know what kind of a fielder Abreu really was. He might as well have been a f*cking sundial out there.

Phlipper, the Phillies may have the 7th SLG in the NL, but they have the 14th ISO. They don't hit more much power at all. SLG is inflated by singles.

Posted by: Fatalotti | Wednesday, June 06, 2012 at 11:58 AM

* * *
I don't "do" stats beyond the most elementary (So sue me) - - I didn't realize SLG included singles.

Thanks for this fact, Fata. I must admit I was surprised when Phlipper said we were actually average in power/SLG. It's not what my eyes have told me, but I thought maybe the bad April & current losing streak had skewed my perspective.

"JM Sr was at the games over the weekend and was signing autographs, but looked really drunk"

Maybe he reads Beerleaguer and decided to "show some sac and drink some Jack."

I like Victorino, a lot. I like that he's an emotional player, I like his energy, I like watching him run around in CF making catches even if he sometimes takes a circuitous route to the ball. I think it's great that he wants to stay in Philly.

That said, surely he realizes that the best way to achieve said goal is to impress in his ABs. It's a shame if it's true that the desire to perform is making him press. It's a shame for him and for the team that he's underperforming this year.

I never minded the Abreu-era Phillies. It spanned high school through my early 20s and it was the first time they contended in ages. Those September runs were everything baseball fandom should be. They came up short but that's baseball. I guess I wasn't and still am not bitter enough to gripe about how much so and so makes and how he never ran into a wall or whatever the issue was. The only thing about that era that bothered me was Bowa and the generation of fans that loved him and wanted the players to fail so Bowa and his fans could be right about how awful today's players are.

I find it hard to believe that a fan base which suffered through Bobby Abreu for as long as we did would ever accept Juan Pierre as a starter. Both are sub-par fielders (yes Abreu won a Gold Glove but there's no way he deserved it) who hit over .300 but do nothing for the team when it matters most. No Mayberry hasn't played well but at some point you have to remove the player who only performs when the game is well at hand and gamble on the talent that can really help your team which Mayberry has when he is on.

Not to mention that the hardest thing to do in baseball is pinch hit or play one out of every 4 games which is what Mayberry has been struggling with all year

Posted by: T. Brain | Wednesday, June 06, 2012 at 12:13 PM

There's no way any of this is serious, right?

People are so stupid (not you in particular, T. Brain, I'm sure you're joking).

The skill to get on base at a .415 clip is literally like 1000 times more important than being willing to run into a wall, but the latter is mentioned like 100 times more often when Abreu's legacy is discussed.

Victorino is part of the guard that needs changing. I don't hate the guy. I'm appreciative of what he's done in his career here (thankfully LA didn't take him back when Wade tried to hand him back) because he was a big part of the recent success of this team. But at some point you have to look at the headscratching at bats, increasing age and turn the page. Enough multi-year deals to guys on the wrong side of 30.

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