Lee, Victorino exchange 'heated' words in 5-3 victory

From Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com: "The game featured two strange plays in the fourth inning as Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence both lost fly balls in the twilight. Both balls fell for hits, one a triple. After that inning, Cliff Lee and Victorino exchanged words – 'heated' words, according to Charlie Manuel – in the dugout. Brian Schneider had to step between them. 'That’s good sometimes,' Manuel said. 'There’s nothing wrong with that. No big deal.' Neither Manuel nor Lee would say whether the confrontation stemmed from the balls that had been lost in the outfield. 'It’s going to stay between us,' Lee said. 'I’m not going to talk about it.' Victorino would not talk about it either. 'Just go,' he said brusquely, waving a reporter away from his locker.

The dispute undercut what should have been a clear lede about one of the grittiest wins of the season, one that included a slump-busting, 10th-inning, game-winning homer by Hunter Pence and Victorino, Freddy Galvis and Carlos Ruiz connecting on a game-saving collision at home (pictured from US Presswire). The win put the Phillies back over .500. Read about it here.

Comments

[NEPP]

Papelbon in Save Situations (2012)

14 G, 13.1 IP, 14 Saves, .136 AVG/.310 OPS, 6 H, 2 BB, 13 SO, 0.600 WHIP, 6.50 SO/BB

Pure money.

[lorecore]

Everytime I think my manlove is maxed out, chooch proves me wrong.

[Dee]

Seriously, Chooch needs to be in the All-Star Game this year.

[vegas]

That's exactly what this team needs, gritty play and Chooch has been the leader in that category for years.

[JB]

Seriously, Chooch needs to start the All-Star Game this year.

[Muuurgh]

Can we buy official 'Beerleaguer for Chooch' t-shirts..?

[kitty kat]

What if it was Cole Hamels instead of Cliff Lee having "words"? We'd be killing Cole like we still do over things that happened 3 years ago.

[squads]

I think he might have been on him for the ball Pence lost in the lights. Victorino was trotting over instead of getting over there to bail Pence out. Check out this replay at the 50 second mark:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_05_25_phimlb_slnmlb_1&highlight_content_id=21743859&c_id=phi

You can see Victorino trotting at the start of the play

[bigmyc]

Moderation is key in a great many things. This "spat" between higher profile Phillies should be thought of with such moderation. It wouldn't be any different if it were Hamels.

Ruiz in the All-Star game is a given. Period. Play like an All-Star = All Star. Now, whether or not the fans are perceptive enough to comprehend this is another story.

[Scott]

I sincerely hope everyone here at Beerleaguer will or has put their money where their mouths are, and votes for Chooch. Nobody in MLB plays with more heart than he does. While I'm not a big fan of the term, alongside with Galvis, nobody on this team has done "more" with less (i.e. both have consistently overachieved and pushed themselves to do better each night).

[Ed]

I hope Chooch doesn't play in the all-star game. Everytime he gets hit with a foul ball or plastered at the plate, I have visions of a season ending fracture. To have him play in some stupid All Star game is just retarded. He/we shouldn't need that ego boost. He's great, awesome... yeah, he should be an all-star in theory and be recognized, but at what cost.

[bay_area_phan]

My all-time favorite dug-out fight was the one between Jeff Kent & Barry Bonds. They were 2 of the game's true superstars at the time, and it was a poorly kept secret that they absolutely hated each other. That always adds some luster to a fight.

[Templin]

b_a_p thank you for putting Paps in perspective with your reminiscing about the Lidge saves. Paps is money, not the heart attack others have been.

If we need a save tonight, do we go to Bastardo? Just asking.

[bay_area_phan]

Since it's Memorial Day weekend, I did my patriotic duty this morning: voting for Chooch 25 times. 16 other non-Phillies were incidental beneficiaries of my patriotism, as they also received 25 votes that I would not have bothered to register if I weren't so motivated to elect Chooch:

Konerko, Cano, A. Cabrera, Trumbo, Mauer, Hamilton, A. Jones, A. Jackson, in the AL

Votto, Infante, Furcal, Wright, Ethier, Kemp, and Melky Cabrera in the NL. Melky Cabrera was an accident, by the way. I marked him at first but I thought I'd changed my vote to Beltran. At the end, though, it showed up as Cabrera. Whatever.

Must admit, I was sorely tempted to write in Freddy Galvis at 2nd base. Hard to overlook Infante's .340 average and .942 OPS, though.

[Scott]

b_a_p: I was also tempted to write in Freddy, but ultimately opted for Infante. Glad you showed Chooch some love. He's become the Heart and Soul of the Phillies.

[kuvasz]

I would want Lee in my fox hole much more than Victorino. Lee has the sense of urgency running through his veins that this team needs.

[Let''s go eat]

I think that victorino and lee approach these type of situations differently.

Maybe lee's method are more conventional, but the perception that victorino cares any less than lee is preposterous.

I still like things methodical, that appears to be Lee's approach, ( plan a, b, c, etc) -- where Vic plans some, but mostly works on Adrenaline, emotion & some thought, depending on the issue at the moment. It works, but sometimes can get you in trouble too.

[Let''s go eat]

Btw I did not want ti insinuate that anyone on this blog thinks victorino cares any less or more than lee...

I Just was giving my opinion.. + viewpoint...

Remember those who gave the supreme sacrifice, so we could be free today.

Have a safe holiday everyone.

[GBrettFan]

Can I copy your ballot, BAP? I haven't been keeping up with baseball apart from the Phillies, and it would save me the time of looking up stats on everyone before voting.

[Scott]

GBrett: The voting site allows you to check the stats of everyone at each position so you can compare them all on one page.

[bay_area_phan]

GBrett: Feel free -- although I don't claim that I carefully researched the issues before I voted.

[Bert Wedemeyer]

Galvis' relay throw the best since Manny Trillo in the 1980 NLCS at Houston.

[George S]

Given the situation, Manny Trillo's throw from RF in that 1980 playoff game might be the best clutch play I have ever seen in baseball, period.

[Bonehead]

My boy Manny.
I wore #9 in little league because of him.

[Scott]

Trillo had an absolute cannon for an arm.

[cut_fastball]

...It's pretty clear Lee is getting ticked off not having a win this late in the year. Not saying I blame him. He's gotten screwed out of at least three.

Posted by: Iceman | Friday, May 25, 2012 at 11:43 PM

So the chickens are coming home to roost. I predicted dissension arising from poor offense; ironically 3-time gold glove winner Shane Victorino gets carped on by Lee; perhaps justifiably, but c'mon Cliff -- a 3-time Gold Glover? First error of the year?

I honestly believe that Cliff Lee and Doc Halladay are fed up. Phils' have won 9 of 13 and remain buried in last place. This is not what those 2 signed up for.

Avuncular Charlie has the challenge of his managerial life on his hands. Precedent has been set for the staff going after this quirky band of irregulars comprising the starting 8. If Doc goes out next time, pitches a gem and loses 4 -3, it should be interesting mid- and post-game.

Regardless, nothing wrong with 3 straight wins. A few days ago, I said that winning 8 of 10 would pretty much guarantee escape from the basement. Three straight wins is a great start. Hat's off in advance if they sweep the hated Cardinals.

And, to the best and bravest who have given it all for our country, well, let's just say (this is a baseball board) baseball in Cuba is pretty much a non-issue despite great players. Freedom is something that's earned, and we all need to be thankful.

[Delco Dude]

Cliff Lee plays the game of baseball all-out. Look ... last night he pitched well (despite what you might have read on here), he hit well (2 hits), he fields, and he runs the bases just like an everyday position player (loved how he ran at top speed to score from 1st Base on Juan Pierre's hit).

Vic also plays hard most of the time but there are times when for whatever reason he is caught being a little nonchalant. That's been noticed before - not only on this blog but also by Franzke & Andersen.

[GTown_Dave]

I could see going w/ the Lee/Vic thing if the Phillies had lost, &/or there were people talking out of school about the situation. Neither of those things happened, however, which means the Galvis-to-Chooch play at the plate should have been the lede. Sorry, JW, but this one's a Fail.

[Lets go eat]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120525&content_id=32230540&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb

Take a look at this link...Btw the way How are our current prospects doing?

[lorecore]

"What if it was Cole Hamels instead of Cliff Lee having "words"? We'd be killing Cole like we still do over things that happened 3 years ago."

Just like we'd boo santa claus, what a tired and outdated opinion.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

There was a prospect thread a day ago.

[GTown_Dave]

I'm happy that Singleton is doing well in AA. Then again, Dom Brown was a great AA player, too.

[mm]

Meh, I'm sure Cliff should be fine. He had a right to blow-up a little, the fact he hasn't won a game yet is criminal. I'm sure vic probably just said "Hey man, were all busting our butts out there. It just doesn't happen like we want to sometimes. What matters is we get the win, not you".

And i'm sure cliff will be pissy all night, wake up tommorrow. feel like a dbag, and go apolgoize to vic. that's that.

[mm]

also, there needs to be a $100 to charity penalty ever time rollins swings at a breaking ball in the dirt. Because something has to break that habit he's picked up.

[Fatalotti]

There's something surreal about looking at Chooch's stats on May 26th and seeing a 1.004 OPS.

He's 5th in the NL in OPS and 4th in OPS+ (171).

Surreal.

[norbertods]

Don't really think lee and doc have a right to be upset at the offense's struggles this year. As I remember lee gave up a 4 spot in the playoffs and doc got outpitched in his biggest game as a Phil. Not to say they haven't been worth the $$, especially doc, but it's a team sport based on individual performances. By the way, not upset at all that lee and Vic had words. I'd be more upset if they didn't care.

[Raul's grandpa]

Kitty,
Did your "Mrs.Hamels" tshirt come in the mail yet or do you draw one with a marker on a pink shirt every year?

[K]

Victorino's mouth almost got his head bashed...
he should concentrate on his play rather than comments about anything under the sun. Low 200's ain't gonna get you big money, pal!

[GBrettFan]

I'll miss the game tonight - theatre night. I guess that's ok, since Garcia v. KK leaves us overmatched.

So watch it be a blow-out win. And if so, I'll be very happy when I check the score later tonight!

[Kyle Kendrick]

There's some guy named Clout who sends me his underware. What's that about?

[Iceman]

mm is 100% right. In the heat of competition, sometimes you act like a complete ass and feel like you're right at the time. When you wake up the next day, you realize you were being an ass.

My guess is these guys woke up this morning, felt differently and this is no longer an issue.

[Luis]

Before Pence's game-winning homer, Juan Pierre tied the game with this RBI double.

[Scott]

Say what you will about Pierre, the guy seems to have a decent sense of humor. From a CSN Philly article:

The Phillies had tied the game in the top of the seventh inning. Manuel let starter Cliff Lee hit with his team down by a run (Lee was also at 98 pitches) and the pitcher did not disappoint. He singled and scored from first when Pierre laced a gapper to left-center. It may have been Pierre’s hardest-hit ball of the season.

“Shocked you?” he asked.

Nah.

“Shocked me,” he said.