Game chat: Lee, Phils try to complete short sweep

Cliff Lee goes in search of his first win of the season against Jordan Lyles and the Houston Astros. First pitch is slated for 1:05 p.m., with much of the Northeast socked in by rain. The Phillies go Rollins, Pierre, Victorino, Pence, Polanco, Mayberry, Galvis, Schneider. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[NEPP]

Smallball!

[Andy]

So here's my rant. With a runner in scoring position and the guy with the best BA on the team up, you make him give up an out? In the first inning? Really?

There should be a new category next to "sacrifice bunt," which is "stupid bunt."

[Jack]

To be fair, even when Juan Pierre swings away he's still playing smallball.

[JRide]

Was that truly a sac bunt? I'm at work so I can't see.

If so, that is a totally useless play. The highest average hitter on the team sacrificing in front of two guys who have done jack (Vic and Pence-less) with a speedster on second in the first inning against a minor league pitcher.

am i missing something?

[NEPP]

And Vic strikes out so the sac bunt is meaningless anyway.

Clutch as always, Shane.

[bay_area_phan]

Considering that Juan Pierre is an extreme ground ball/slap hitter, who hits almost every out the right side, is there anything that we accomplished with that bunt which would not have very likely happened anyhow -- but without purposely giving up an out in the very first inning?

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

It's official, right now Hunter Pence stinks.

[Jack]

BOOOOOOO.

[Andy]

JRide - Yup. You missed Chollie turning to his bench coach and saying: "Heck; we don't need this run. How 'bout we waste an out?"

[CJ]

Please tell me that sac bunt was Pierre's idea... which makes it just slightly less painful than if it had come from the bench.

Idiotic.

[bay_area_phan]

That sacrifice bunt from our .337 hitting No. 2 hitter sure turned out to be a stroke of brilliance.

[Andy]

NEPP - Let me edit your first comment: "Dumbball!"

[Joe D]

Whew this team is absolutely putrid when trying to manufacture a run. They can never fully piece all of the aspects together.

[JRide]

BAP, that was literally going to be my next argument. Truly incompetent managing.

I absolutely love Charlie. But I cannot honestly come up with any argument as to why that made sense.

[NEPP]

If UC actually called for the bunt there he should be fired.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

JRide, shouldn't it be "Vick-less" AND "Pence-less"?

[Jack]

Wheels, of course, supported the sacrifice.

The obsession with small ball is out of control.

[Scotch Man]

Can we trade Pence back to the Astros? I'll just take Singleton back even. I don't care.

[CJ]

SD takes 1-0 lead on the Nats, bases loaded, full count, 2 outs... rain delay.

[bay_area_phan]

"I absolutely love Charlie. But I cannot honestly come up with any argument as to why that made sense."

If you take out the first sentence, I completely agree with you.

[Joe D]

I mean they finally hit a little last night and all of a sudden we are back to trying to scrape a run across. It's the 1st...let's see what happens with some swings.

[Jack]

By the way, a lot of people on here LOVED the idea of small ball when "all" the Phillies did was hit home runs to score. As if that was a bad thing.

[MG]

You definitely appreciate the 'intangibles' in a player who makes sound decision vs. one like Pierre.

Pierre plays hard & is a really likeable guy. One of the worst positional players the Phils have had the last decade or so regarding his 'intangibles' and the choices he makes during a game.

[JRide]

Batting Victorino third against a lefty - I'm ok with that.

Against a right handed pitcher, not so much. I realize they really don't have a top lefthanded bat in the lineup, but Victorino is a total waste batting lefty.

Which makes the Juan Pierre sacrifice even more disgusting.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

I've always admired Charlie as a manager, but some of the things he's done this season just bewilder me.

[Joe D]

By the way, a lot of people on here LOVED the idea of small ball when "all" the Phillies did was hit home runs to score. As if that was a bad thing.

Posted by: Jack

There were times when I wish they entertained the idea but after watching this team this year it's clear they don't have the personnel to do it. I'll take the downswings that come with living by the long ball over these pains.

[MG]

What is Lee's official pitch count? Did Amaro tell yet another fib/lie when he said Lee was 100% when he came back?

[Joe D]

@MG...if he did lie can you blame him? This team needs his bat.

[Jack]

Joe D: If this team (with guys like Rollins, Pierre, Polanco, Victorino, and others) doesn't have the personnel to play small ball, then there is no such thing as the right personnel to play small ball.

Which of course is the point. No matter who your players are, small ball is a bad strategy than almost inevitably leads to fewer runs being scored.

[Bob]

Misery loves company, I guess.

I've always liked and respected Albert P, but the Galvis comparison from the previous thread made me smile. And considering the state of the Phillies right now, I don't feel too sad to see some of the other "elite" teams and players struggling early.

[Joe D]

Joe D: If this team (with guys like Rollins, Pierre, Polanco, Victorino, and others) doesn't have the personnel to play small ball, then there is no such thing as the right personnel to play small ball.

Which of course is the point. No matter who your players are, small ball is a bad strategy than almost inevitably leads to fewer runs being scored.

Posted by: Jack

Can't say I disagree with you. I think Polanco fits that mold of station to station ball but the other guys you've mentioned are flat out dumb.

[bay_area_phan]

I'm all in favor of "small ball" if it means stealing bases, working counts, and understanding that there is a time and place for shortening up your swing and just making contact. But playing for 1 run and intentionally giving up an out in the 1st inning is just spectacularly idiotic.

[Joe D]

Some good fielding on display here for the Astros.

[Jack]

I'd bunt here.

[Joe D]

Yeah you better be looking to bunt here.

[JRide]

I'm not sure what Vick-less would mean? Not having Michael Vick tendencies? Not having a sufficient quantity of Vick's vapor rub?

[Joe D]

c'mon you gotta lay it down here to set the table for RBI extraordinaire Brian Scneider.

[Joe D]

lol Schneider showed me.

[Joe D]

Lee has no clue what to do with all these runs.

[Bill]

It seems like Mayberry reaches base via error more than any other player in the majors. That has to be like the 4th or 5th time in the last week alone.

[wes covington's ghost]

can schneider play right field?

[RedBurb]

Schneider is so horrible.

[CJ]

First pitch fastball down the pike to the 8-hole hitter with 2 ours?

Bad decision by the Astros.

(Proper caveat... Cliff Lee is likely a more dangerous hitter than Brian Schneider.)

[lorecore]

hoops homers

[JRide]

I really think its about time Hunter Pence gets a nickname befitting his tendency to play as though his brain has been replaced by a loaf of Liscio's rolls.

Maybe Hunter Dense? Pence-less? Dom Brown Sr.?

[bay_area_phan]

Schneider has actually been hitting well and playing good defense early in the season. RAJ probably regrets that he signed him to only a one-year deal.

[wes covington's ghost]

how about rain man for pence?

[MG]

Take what you can get from Schneider in his starts and if he gives you a couple of HRs this year, it is jut gravy.

Given them some decent production so far as starter (through is AB today)

10 GS, 29 ABs, 9-28 (.321) with 1 HR and 4 RBIs

[Joe D]

I like Hunter Dense. It's actually incredible.

[Phatti]

Bill-- I thought the same thing and checked. It's the fifth time this season, all since the 4th. He'd only reached on error twice In
His career before then, so it might be a weird coincidence.

[Dave]

@ Joe D

Pierre maybe (although isn't he supposed to be the quintessential small ball player?). But both Rollins and Vic, whatever their other faults, are smart, fast baserunners, which ought to make them at least decent at small ball.

And yes, Vic is a dope in the field, but he's a good baserunner.

Could be that small ball is just a bad strategy.

[MG]

CJ - Thinking the exact same thing. If Schneider gets around on a fastball (especially from a RHP), that is one pitch he can still drive.

[jro]

MG-they said Lee will have a pitch count between 85-100 pitches today.

[CJ]

Strasburg gives up 3 runs in the first to the Padres.

[lorecore]

Bill: Marlon Byrd leads the league with 6 ROE (Reached on Error) so far this year.

[Joe D]

@Dave....Rollins and Victorino are not smart at the plate at all though.

[CJ]

MG: I get using the fastball at some point in the count... maybe... but starting him fastball? Weird decision.

[Phatti]

Schneider now has the highest ops in the lineup. Pierre is second

[MG]

I wouldn't give Schneider a fastball though unless you had to. He's a terrible offspeed hitter who flails badly at stuff especially down and in. As long as you don't really hang an offspeed pitch, he will makes out a really high clip.

[Bonehead]

TMac comments on a baseball game like my 9-yr-old niece.

[JRide]

Bonehead, that's a heckkkuvaaaa post.

[bullit]

i think the simple nickname "Hacker Pence" is most appropriate. he is what he is. and it's a pretty cool baseball name.

[Joe D]

SAFE AND SECURE WITH NEW YORK LIFE! Reading ads really excites me! I'm T-MAC!

[wes covington's ghost]

looks like the promotion at gnatitude park today is each fan attending gets his own row of seats..

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

I like "Hunter Dense" as well.

How about "J-Slow" or "J-Dolt" and "Vic-uous" (play on the word 'vacuous'?

Or, we could use and antonym to 'stupid' as a form of mockery such as "J-Bright".

[MG]

Lee's doing a nice job of locating his fastball early in the count today.

40 pitches around 3 IP. Hope you can somehow squeeze 7 IP out of him. It would be nice though to have Papelbon available today & only have to mix-and-match for 3 outs in the 8th.

[bay_area_phan]

"I get using the fastball at some point in the count... maybe... but starting him fastball?"

Not really. It's pretty standard to start with a fast ball & try to get ahead in the count. But you can't throw it over the middle of the plate -- even with Brian Schneider.

[Steve]

I vote "Hunter Dense"

[EastFallowfield]

Strasburg gives up 3 runs in the first to the Padres.

Padres have scored 2 more runs in their game and 2 innings in DC than they did in the 3 game set at our bandbox.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

Or, for Vic, we could pass on a nickname and every time he has a knuckleheaded AB or makes a knuckleheaded play, we could sub the word "Vickleheaded".

[MG]

Pence is frustrating to watch at times or call but I would never boo/mock him at a game because it is never a lack of effort with him. Ditto Pierre.

Only time I ever boo is when a player clearly doesn't hustle or give effort.

[Buddy Ryan in 2008]

Lowest OPS in the lineup is (drumroll please) the leadoff hitter Jimmy Rollins. 1.5 months into the season...

[Joe D]

MG...I hear you. The guy is definitely trying. Most of the time he is trying to hit any pitch within a 6 foot radius of him.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

MG, I agree with that. Vic always hustles too, but does have some vickleheaded ABs.

[Joe D]

Jimmy gave it a ride! What's that his 2nd ball to the track this year...the other being the home run?

[MG]

JRoll has hit 2 balls really hard so far for what it is worth.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

"looks like the promotion at gnatitude park today is each fan attending gets his own row of seats..

Posted by: wes covington's ghost "

Post of the Day.

[Dave]

@ Joe D. Define smart at the plate.

[CJ]

MG: Sure, it's often the case that they start fastball... but I'm not sure that's true to the 8-hole hitter with 2 outs and a man on base. That's all I'm saying.

[JRide]

MG, totally agreed I would never boo. I would chant Hunter Dense in appreciation of all his dense-ness.

Hacker Pence sounds too cool to be somewhat derogatory. Plus, I believe major league baseball retired any name beginning with "Hack" after Mr. Wilson finished up his 190 Ribbie campaign.

Also, I kind of dig "Vickleheaded." I've been using the term "bubbleheaded" to describe him, but I can change.

[Joe D]

@ Joe D. Define smart at the plate.

Posted by: Dave

I have to define it. Knowing the count, zoning up in certain situations, knowing the situation. If a guy is all over the place and walking people you might want to see a pitch or two. It's just common sense.

[lorecore]

I'm absolutely fine with Rollins 'baseball IQ' over his career. The biggest criticism he usually gets is that he tries too hard to drive the ball early in the count whenever he thinks he sees a decent pitch.

I'm not sure thats really a IQ thing moreso than a poor pitch selection. Otherwise, he makes the right play in the field and basepaths at a higher rate as likely any player in baseball during his MLB career.

[JRide]

Rollins is not Vickleheaded.

His biggest knock has been his inability to be more patient at the plate and to keep the ball out of the air and utilize more speed.

[MG]

Give up some of those Ks for a few quick outs today with Lee.

[Jack]

Cliff Lee is good at pitching.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

Ummm, not sure now. For Post of the Day bonehead tosses in this excellent entry which I initially missed:

"TMac comments on a baseball game like my 9-yr-old niece."

[JRide]

This Astros lineup is a real "Downer."

[Joe D]

I'm absolutely fine with Rollins 'baseball IQ' over his career. The biggest criticism he usually gets is that he tries too hard to drive the ball early in the count whenever he thinks he sees a decent pitch.

I'm not sure thats really a IQ thing moreso than a poor pitch selection. Otherwise, he makes the right play in the field and basepaths at a higher rate as likely any player in baseball during his MLB career.

Posted by: lorecore

I've never doubted his instincts in the field or on the bases. And yeah he likes to drive the ball early in the count which you would think would be what you'd want out of your 3-hole hitter but I digress.

Polly is really finding the fountain of youth lately.

[Phlipper]

"Schneider now has the highest ops in the lineup. Pierre is second."

That stat is pretty meaningless there - but you have to admit that given MG's constant complaining about both of them, that is pretty funny.

[Joe D]

The Astros really are a terrible team. They should just disband them instead of moving them.

[JRide]

Glad to see Carlos Lee finally make an out.

[MG]

JRide - Yup. Why I wanted the Phils to get this game in today. Only guy who is really hitting lately for them is Johnson and to a lesser degree Lee but not much power.

[Jack]

Joe D: The Astros were only two games behind the Phillies coming into this series.

Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

[Joe D]

Joe D: The Astros were only two games behind the Phillies coming into this series.

Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Posted by: Jack

Sadly, yes. Yes it does.

[JRide]

I wonder what Carlos Lee's career would look like if he had managed to lay off the Chalupa's. Man that guy could hit with a pencil.

[Phatti]

Philliper, agreed that it's meaningless. I just thought it was equal parts weird, funny, and sad.

[awh, Founder - JRoll in the 6-hole Club]

My biggest problem with Rollins and Vic at the plate is that they expand the strike zone on themselves.

They are both middle-in hitters, yet they swing at marginal strike that are up and away, they they have little history of being able to handle.

[Joe D]

These routine plays are tough for this Astros team.

[MG]

Phlipper - Schneider has given some offense early. Good for him. Still want a guy who you want to see starting 1x/week max and not PH.

Pierre has hit but ideally is a guy who starts 2-3x week max too and is mainly a PH/PR late in games.

Giving Pierre +500 ABs isn't a good idea especially if Nix/Mayberry are around.

[bullit]

a good nickname can stand alone. like hacker. it is cool yet derogatory at the same time.