Sunday chat: Flat Phillies seek series victory in SD

If the Phillies' offense wishes to be taken seriously, they'll beat right-hander Anthony Bass and the Padres this afternoon and take this series 3-1. Following another uninspiring night of measly run production, Phillies skipper Charlie Manuel rejiggers the lineup: Pierre LF, Victorino CF, Rollins SS, Pence RF, Thome 1B, Wigginton 3B, Ruiz C, Galvis 2B, Blanton. Different recipe, so we'll see if it results in the same bland taste. Ty Wigginton now leads the club in OPS (.789) as several regulars, including Hunter Pence and Jimmy Rollins, have had an awful roadtrip. As a team, the Phils rate second to last in baseball with a .599 OPS. A win would pull the Phils back to .500. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[perspective]

- 1 game under .500
- Middle of April.
- 20% of payroll or 50% of the offensive payroll hasn't played yet.

[GM-Carson]

It's not just the Phillies that suck, it's the Pirates too. Pennsylvania">http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2012/04/pennsylvania-offenses-suck.html">Pennsylvania offenses suck right now.

J-Roll has been miscast as a leadoff hitter in the past, now he's misplaced in the 3-hole. Not that there's many options for Fuqua.

[GM-Carson]

Well, I effed up that link.

Try this one.

[Scotch Man]

Feels like a loss

[curt]

Sorry, moving Vic around isn't "rejiggering." He's actually the only guy in the lineup without an assigned slot (in Chollie's mind).

[Jack]

That lineup is a start. It's better than the past ones they've been trotting out. Here's hoping they get some hits today so that Charlie sticks with it.

[GTown_Dave]

'11 Wilson Valdez

.249 BA/.294 OBP/.341 SLG/.634 OPS

'12 Philadelphia Phillies

.239 BA/.279 OBP/.320 SLG/.599 OPS

[curt]

Not that it matters who bats where with this group....

[Bubba]

As long as T-Mac doesn't start endless ramblings about the quaint intricacies of Padres' uniforms, both past and present, I think I can tough out watching this team struggle for a return to relevancy.

Maybe Burrell, on his one day stint as a Phillie, can give Mayberry a clue how to hit . Charlie and GG are clearly not able to give him back his swing. He could really help this team by playing good defense, at either 1B or LF, and hitting like he did last year.

[MG]

Not exactly the best lineup.

Today would have been as good a day as any to start Orr at 2B vs RHP, move Galvis to SS, and sit JRoll. No idea why Orr is on this roster since he has now appeared in 1 game in the first 16. Waste of a roster spot.

If Cholly is going to play Wigginton at 3B and Thome at 1B, he should have sit Pierre and played Nix. Pierre is 5-22 (.227) on this road trip with a whopping 1 run scored in 5 GS. Table setter my a$$.

[Fatalotti]

I honestly think there's nothing more stupid in the 4 major sports than the fact that HP umpires have their own unique strike 3 calls, and sometimes they get ridiculously ostentatious.

Every wrestler has to have a finishing move, just like ever HP umpire has to have a unique strike 3 call.

[curt]

The 2012 Cholly lineup until further notice:

1. Pierre if he's playing
2. Polly if he's playing
3. Jimmy if he's playing
4. Pence
5. Thome if he's playing, Vic if he isn't, or Wiggy if Vic is needed elsewhere
6. Wiggie if he's playing and not at #5, or Mayberry
7. Ruiz assuming Galvis is playing
8 Galvis if he's playing

[Fatalotti]

I agree with MG. Why doesn't Nix get starts against LHP ever? He's supposed to bring 2 things to the team: good defense in LF and the ability to hit LHP.

If Mayberry isn't starting in LF, and we're facing a RHP, and Nix isn't starting, let him go play for a team that may actually try to utilize his skill set. Otherwise, leave him at a rest stop on the team's next bus trip.

[Fatalotti]

Obviously, my first paragraph should have read "RHP" instead of "LHP".

[denny b.]

After doing some checking, I believe JW is correct.

Mayberry is out of minor league options. So he either stays or would have to be DFA'd to get him back to AAA. And unlike Wilson Valdez a couple of years ago, there would be a bunch of teams trying to claim him. No way you'd want to risk losing him.

So he'll have to figure it out up here. Still have to remember we are only 2 weeks in. But he needs something good to happen soon. As do the Phils. Of course its not like RFD is the only problem. Polly is a big problem. Nix is a big problem. Thome's presence on the roster is a big problem. Schneeder playing more then 1 day a week is a big problem. Most of the everyday players are problems, not just one guy.

As for one other aging player who right now looks like he's at the end of the road...Scott Rolen. Time might be running out to boo him at CBP.

[GTown_Dave]

When the Phillies lose as they did Saturday night, frustration mounts not from the single loss but from the indication that this is what the 2012 offense is. The Phillies don’t walk and they don’t take pitches. They have swung at more pitches out of the strike zone (34 percent) than any team in baseball, according to Fangraphs.

Source Link: Phillies Talk 04/22/12

[MG]

This is the lineup I wouldn't have minded seeing today:

CF Vic
C Chooch
RF Pence
1B Thome
3B Wigginton
LF Nix
SS Galvis
2B Orr

[MG]

Can't imagine that Chooch is 100% either yet given how swollen his hand was yet yesterday & that he wasn't available last night.

Nice if Cholly had a little more faith in his backup catcher to start another game to give Chooch another day off.

[GBrettFan]

Red Sox & Cardinals trying to woo Roy O.

[gobaystars!]

Re: Scotty
Hall of Famer? I'll start the voting with a "Yes". He's the best defender at his position ever and he was a solid but short of dominant hitter for much of his career. I predict he gets in after waiting a few years.

[Allan Thornburg (AT)]

The presence of Pierre on this team is the main reason Nix--a horrible pinch hitter--is going to spend most of this season on the bench and be brought in to strike out every once in a while. Going into the season, I thought that a strict Mayberry/Nix platoon in LF, with Wigginton and occasionally Thome holding down first base, would be the optimum lineup, and that Cholly would think likewise. However, now that Pierre is on the team, he's become Cholly's regular LF starter--and he'll stay there as long as he comes up with singles--screw the need to evaluate Mayberry, the need to properly utilize Nix, the need for optimum defence, and the need for power.

[clout]

MG: Why in the world would you think replacing Rollins with Orr would help score more runs?

[bullit]

it's time for the high socks talisman. i know, i say it every year. it's the look of youthful vitality. they all need to emulate freddy's exhuberance. i'd love to see the big piece lumber to the plate looking more like the babe.

i wonder who the beau brummell of baseball was. (you know, the brit who got the gentry to wear slacks instead of knickers back in the 1800's.) i.e. who first started wearing the pj slacks in the majors? when was this? it just kinda snuck up on me.

[gobaystars!]

Here is a godo article on the pajam pants look in baseball

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/100715_mlb_pants

[gobaystars!]

good article

[gobaystars!]

Also the Phillies have a decent number of high sockers. Pierre, Galvis, Pence, Thome, Blanton.

[bullit]

thanks gobay. fascinating. looks like george hendrick gets the brummell award.

[GBrettFan]

Interesting, if depressing, notes from Dave Murphy.
* * *
1) The Phillies have benefited from very little production out of the third base position, where veteran Placido Polanco continues to struggle in the early going. Phillies third basemen enter today hitting .180 with a .215 on base percentage and a .197 slugging percentage (.412 OPS) with one extra base hit in 65 plate appearances. Even the team's pitchers are giving them more production: a batting line of .212/.212/.242 (.455 OPS) and one extra base hit in 37 plate appearances.

2) The Phillies clearly miss Ryan Howard's power bat in the middle of their line-up. Below are the numbers that Phillies first basemen have posted through 15 games, compared with Howard's numbers through the first 15 games of 2011:

Phillies 1B, 2012: .259 BA, .333 OBP, .389 SLG, 5 XBH (1 HR), 8 RBI, 4 RS, 15 SO, 60 PA

Phillies 1B, 2011: .293 BA, .343 OBP, .517 SLG, 7 XBH (4 HR), 15 RBI, 10 RS, 14 SO, 67 PA

3) Let's do another comparison to the pitchers. Turns out, they are out-hitting Phillies pinch-hitters too. Through 15 games, Phillies pinch-hitters are 1-for-18 with no extra base hits, no RBI, no runs, no walks, and nine strikeouts.

[MG]

clout - Of course not but JRoll is in a bad slump, hasn't had an off-day all year, and the Phils don't have an off-day again until Thurs.

Good a time as any to start Orr today & giver JRoll a breather.

curt is right about the lineup. You always hear that Cholly 'goes with his gut' and play hutches. Can't believe this common refrain for his managerial style persists when he clearly prefers the known veteran quantity whenever possible and almost always manages by baseball orthodoxy.

[bullit]

i've seen howard with the back of his cuffs stretched over his heel and impaled on his back cleat.

[GBrettFan]

I find it funny in a sad, ironic, way that our pitchers are thus far outhitting both our PH'rs and our 3Bmen.

[bay_area_phan]

"Why doesn't Nix get starts against LHP ever?"

It's baffling. For all the talk about how "Pierre is not the problem," he has a whopping .302 OBP out of the leadoff spot. That .302 OBP has resulted in exactly 3 runs scored in 43 PAs. Granted, it's not Pierre's fault if he reaches base & the guys behind him fail to drive him home. But, regardless of whose fault it is, it's fair to say that when your leadoff hitter has scored 3 runs in 9 starts, then your team really isn't getting much benefit out of having him in the leadoff spot.

Nix, on the other hand, bats in the middle of the order where, despite only 18 PAs, and a batting average of .188, he has still managed to drive in the same number of runs that Juan Pierre has scored.

[MG]

'Olde' School lineup for the Phils:

Average age of Phils' positional players: 32.6

Average age of Padres' positional players: 29.9

Geezers attack!

[gobaystars!]

Doh!

[Meyer]

S.o.B. too close your out.
Fire T-Mac.

[NEPP]

Gotta love Juan Pierre.

[gobaystars!]

Big goof Juan Pierre.

[MG]

Pierre. Professional leadoff hitter. Ugh.

[The Truth Injection]

Really dumb play by Alonso.

[Meyer]

Great play that T-Mac calls "a break".

[MG]

If people want to harp on Cholly, Pierre/Nix is the perfect example because Nix on the bench as a PH and Pierre in the leadoff spot and primarily starter in LF is exactly how these guys shouldn't be used regularly and aren't in the best position to help the team.

Want to wail away on Cholly for that. Wail away. Its just poor placement of players in their roles.

[gobaystars!]

Pence is struggling.

[GBrettFan]

Pence is really frustratingly inept right now.

[gobaystars!]

Oh great! The Jim Thome nostalgia tour continues.

[Fatalotti]

It would be this lineup that has the 1 and 2 hole hitters, walk, then the 3 hole hitter hit into a double error, the 3 hole hitter steals 2nd base, and yet not one run scores.

[gobaystars!]

Jim's done.

[MG]

Will the Smothers Brothers being an opening act on the Jim Thome Nostalgia tour.

[Meyer]

WTF Jim.

[MG]

Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. You have 2 BBs, 2 errors, and a starter who can't find the strike zone that inning and can't even score a run.

[GBrettFan]

Not a start that promises sparkling offense. Or even lackluster offense.

[MG]

With Blanton on the mound, Thome at 1st, and Wigginton at 3B, I would bunt too for a base hit.

[NEPP]

Good effort at least.

[GBrettFan]

Nice sharp game so far.

[gobaystars!]

This isn't looking good. We blew our daily rally and now they are giving outs away.

[Fatalotti]

That's actually a play that Chase would have made. Galvis is obviously the better fielder, but that play was the Chase Utley glove flip special.

[MG]

Embarrassing.

[gobaystars!]

Pence!! Sit this guy down. He has a ton of talent but his baseball IQ is less than zero.

[Fatalotti]

Bad news bears today. There's probably a better way to spend the day then watch this team get beaten down by probably the worst team in the league.

[MG]

Blanton gearing at Pence? Trying make a play on a gifted DP dumba$$.

[GBrettFan]

I'm starting to feel like a masochist for choosing to watch Phillies baseball.

Please, Phillies, turn it around soon.

[NEPP]

Game over.

[AL]

Wow. Just wow.

[The Truth Injection]

This is the kind of nonsense that happens when things are not going well for your team.

[The hook]

Sad to see Jim miss that 91 FB. Stick a fork in him he's done. WTF was pence doing? This team looks lost and confused. Heavy B can't do PFP. God awful baseball.

[gobaystars!]

Boo. Booo. Booooooooooooo.

[Meyer]

Hang him Joe. DP set up.

[Fatalotti]

STUPID STUPID play by the Padres. This is why they're terrible.

[MG]

Great throw Vic.

[connie mack]

Would this Thome tour connect end with a Charlie departure?

[Sophist]

Feels like this team is 4-11. Things could not really have gone much worse in the first month of the year.

Great throw by Vic.

[Fatalotti]

Yeah, that throw by Vic was incredible. Hit Wiggy on the fly, right on the bag.

[MG]

Wheels was dead right. About as poor a way to start a game as you can.

[Eddie W]

The D is coming up with some plays, the bats are killing us.

[The Truth Injection]

Thome not hitting a 91 mph fastball does not mean he is done. The guy threw him two straight sliders and then a fastball. Why would you be looking fastball on that pitch? Th best he could've done was foul it to the third base side.

[Fatalotti]

Yeah Murphy, Wiggy definitely made a great play catching a ball that was thrown right to his chest, and applying a routine tag.

[connie mack]

could have given Thome a night, just like they are doing for "pat the bat"

[gobaystars!]

Fat, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[MG]

They somehow need Blanton give hold the Padres scoreless over at least the next 5. Don't see that happening.

[Fatalotti]

TTI, a hitter is supposed to sit fastball and react to the off-speed pitch.

[MG]

TTI - Agreed. Thome might be done but he has 2 starts and 14 ABs coming into today.

[MG]

Even Wheels is a bit testy early today.

[JRide]

I just dont see this getting much better. Even when Howard is back, what are you really going to get? And dont even get me started on Utley.

[Sophist]

Thome may be done. Mayberry may have turned into a pumpkin. Maybe not. Have to wait and see.

[J. Weitzel]

This team has no idea what it's doing right now offensively.

[connie mack]

Thome belongs in the American League at this point in his career.

[Fatalotti]

With how wild this guy is, it should surprise me how much Pence went hacking away when he was at the plate with 2 runners in scoring position.

It should surprise me, but it doesn't.

[Meyer]

Juan has a home run swing.

[jr]

2 walkks and the next batter swings at the 1st pitch.Jt have enough sense to retire. usae Nix or let him go.KK will get a win.

[MG]

Odds Balkin Bob ejects Cholly today? I say at least 25%.

[Fatalotti]

Please walk Pierre here. VIc is about our only chance to do anything offensively today. Hopefully he can get a chance with the bases loaded.

[GBrettFan]

Fata, don't take anything for granted with Wiggy at 3B. It may indeed be noteworthy that he executed the play he was supposed to make.

[Meyer]

Venable runable.

[gobaystars!]

Juan is hitting and I'm willing to give him credit for whispering fundamentals in Shane's ear on that throw in the first but he better not do anything studid on the bases again!

[MG]

Just some ugly baseball by both teams early.

[Let's eat]

Will wonders ever cease ?

A single w RISP

[Fatalotti]

Alright, I'll take 2 on for Vic with 1 run already across the board.

By the way, for anyone wanting to teach their children how to play the game of baseball, don't let them watch this game.

[NEPP]

Woohoo!!!

[The Truth Injection]

Fatalotti- A hitter is supposed to approach pitches based on the situation. You don't just sit fastball at all times. That would be kinda foolish.

When a guy is struggling and throws you two sliders for strikes as a hitter that tells you he has control of his off-speed stuff a little so it is natural to look for that in an 0-2 count. Especially when he has a few pitches he can work with in a count. When he throws a fastball it is hard to catch up to then. Doesn't matter if you are 21, 31, or 41.

[Fatalotti]

The Padres could keep their entire defense on the bench the next time the Phillies bat, and they'd find a way not to score. If they don't put a few runs on the board against this stiff, I'll be disgusted.

[MG]

Phils did get a run that inning but the Padres are doing just about everything they can to help the Phils to score here early with defensive lapses and a starter who is all over the place including a BB to a terrible hitting pitcher (Blanton).

Need to get more than a run out of that.