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Saturday, April 28, 2012


I'm really panicking about our offense.

If only we had an offense like those winning teams in our division. You know, like the Washingto...

Oh. Wait. The Nats have scored a total of 7 more runs than the Phils in 20 games. The Phils have a slightly higher OPS and a considerably higher AVG.

Sign Abreu NOW! Then, trade him to improve the clubhouse chemistry and proceed to the playoffs.

Allow me to handle your bags Bobby! You're coming home!

Do. Not. Want.

I'm pretty sure that restraining order the right field wall put on Abreu is still in effect.

I believe it would be most appropriate for Bobby "The Human Sun Dial" Abreu to return to Citizens Bank Park & stand outside the Right Field Gate, thereby serving as his own statue.

LOL @GTown_Dave

Some of the teams picked to make the playoffs in 2012 and their current records:

Phillies - 9-11
Red Sox - 9-10
Tigers - 10-10
Angels - 6-14
Reds - 9-11
Giants - 10-10

Can he play 1st or is that too close to the wall?

Get Rowand and Bobby. They can tag team the position. Rowand takes the stuff closer to the wall and Bobby makes the cutoff.

Just what is needed,another member for the over the hill gang.

...I never thought I'd jump on the anti-Cholly bandwagon so fast, but I'm pretty much on-board until and unless he fixes some of the mistakes he is currently making on a nightly basis.

Posted by: Iceman | Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 09:32 AM

However painful the gaffes are to read about, Iceman's post is right on point. Will there come a time when Manual's inscrutable management style gets him canned? Personally, I can't wait.

Does anyone really think that moving around these broken parts and putting them in a different order will make the offense work?

I'm not totally "anti-Charlie" yet, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why he puts Jimmy in a spot in the lineup in which he has never succeeded. Sure, sample sizes matter, but in this case it's been a lack of success in small sample sizes over SEVERAL seasons - even during periods where Jimmy has swung the bat well (go check).

I suspect it's because Jimmy becomes a different kind of hitter in the 3-hole - that is, he may be changing his approach because he thinks he needs to be a run producer there instead of just a hitter. Dunno, but he shouldn't be there.

I can understand Charlie's playing Pierre in LF and at the top of the order because Mayberry wasn't hitting early on, but Mayberry is now 3 for his last 6 (SSS I know) and seems to be swinging th ebat better.

So, is Charlie really going to geive RFD an chance? This lineup, with RFD hitting, is vastly superior to one with Pierre in it.

So, I'll give Charlie some credit, he's made a couple of moves that have worked well, but he's also made some inexplicable moves that make me wonder whether he even looking at the team's stats.

if had ever played 1st i'd be tempted

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any manager that could deal with an offense this historically bad. Every little mistake you make is magnified X10 on a team like this.

"Does anyone really think that moving around these broken parts and putting them in a different order will make the offense work?"

Do I think replacing J-Roll in the #3 spot would have a tangible effect on the team's offensive output? Yes.

Do I think Pierre is the wrong choice for leadoff/LF, and would the offense be better with someone else in his spot? Yes.

Do I think moving Polly down in the order would help the team? Yes.

The offense isn't good, but these are three things that would be positive changes for the team that are under Cholly's control. He can't control having to start Galvis- that is on Amaro. But when the offense is this bad, every little bit of optimization helps.

"I suspect it's because Jimmy becomes a different kind of hitter in the 3-hole - that is, he may be changing his approach because he thinks he needs to be a run producer there instead of just a hitter."

I generally don't believe in splits based on the hitter's spot in the lineup. But Rollins may be an exception. This is the 2nd year in a row that he has been tried in the No. 3 spot & failed spectacularly. And his career numbers in the 3-hole are hideous -- i.e., a .316 slugging percentage and only 1 homerun in 383 PAs.

While Rollins isn't the hitter he once was, the one thing I'll say on his behalf is that he has noticeably tried to draw more walks in recent years. And it has generally worked. His walk rate has been near or above 10% in 3 of the past 4 years. But when he moves to the 3-hole, he abandons that approach completely & swings for the fences. Like they tell you in golf: the harder you swing, the less far the ball will usually go.

Is this thread a veiled recomendation or simply a news update on a former Phillie?

If it's a reco, I don't see it. The last thing the team needs is an aging player whose stats are fading away faster than a Key West sunset.

One of the most valuable things Charlie could do now (since he is assumed to have such rapport with his players) would be to make sure they don't press too hard. Just try to relax and go out and play the way they are capable of, not attempting to do too much. They can't play any worse and they are still near .500. Other good teams are struggling too, the GNats won't stay hot all season, and now Zimmerman is on the DL.

Rollins actually squared the ball up a few times yesterday, which was encouraging.

But this is just a horrific slump, and the spot for him to come out of it is not in the #3 spot where he has historically stuggled. And for Manuel to say "Well who else am I supposed to hit there?" is insulting. How about the best hitter in your lineup (Vic) or hottest hitter (Wiggy)? Even Pence would make more sense than Rollins. It's baffling.

Even if he wants to stay with Rollins, I think he could at least make sure Victorino bats high in the order against a lefty. That top 3 in last night's lineup should be permanently discarded as a lineup option.

The Nationals are talking out of both sides of their mouths right now.

Rizzo has said that no matter what position the team is in, Strasburg is getting shut down at his innings limit. Conclusion: the future is more important than this season, and although we want to compete for the division title this year, we're not going to risk the long-term benefit of Strasburg's health to fight for it this year.

Now, Zimmerman is down, and they are bringing up Harper, but it has already been declared that once Zimmerman returns, they will send Harper back down. But if the future is so much more important than this season, why bring up the 19 year old kid as a temporary fix? Why not wait until you're sure he's ready to come up for good, and just bring him up? Now, they are purposely planning to jerk him around, which may stall his development.

It just seems inconsistent.

gobaystars - Yes. It is a marginal improvement for improvement but still want improvement nevertheless.

Cholly can't do anything about the likes of Vic/Pence not hitting. He can move around some of the other pieces including move Chooch up.

Iceman's right that Cholly's comment about JRoll is frustrating. He got asked it again in the post-game last night, gave the same reason, and got really flustered. There is no good reason and Cholly doesn't have a rationale for it. It is just 'because.'

Works when things are going well. Not so much when you have something scuffling along that needs as much tinkering as possible to run as optimally as it can.

Fat - It strikes me as a panic move now that Zimmerman has gone down again. Not like Harper was hitting either down in the minors. Nady/DeRosa have been terrible though. Xavier De Latracadina are hitting .132 (20 for 151) with 1 HR and 10 RBIs for them in LF.

Without Zimmerman and Morse, that Nats' offense is notably below average. Join the ranks of the Phils/Padres/Pirates as the bottom of the NL.

Zimmerman though is a considerable worry. He has had his 2nd cortisone shot in that right shoulder AC joint already this year. Doctors are going to be pretty reluctant to give him a 3rd any time soon.

Zimmerman had a really good spring but he has scuffled since the season started. He isn't driving the ball, had throwing issues from 3B, etc. Imagine he is going to end up playing through a fair amount of pain this season trying to manage it as best he can & has a pretty underwhelming season in the process. Shoulder inflammation he was won't heal unless he has a considerable DL stint.

Ageless Larry:

Not a fan for several obvious reasons but man Jones can hit - .300/.370/.550 so far with 3 HRs in 46 PAs.

Damn impressive for a 40-year old who has to play through varying degrees of pain everyday.

Won't get to 3000 career hits but he is still one of the better pure hitters of the last 30-40 years.

Iceman, you've been hanging out on too many game threads.

Not moving Pierre (with the best OBP on the team so far) out of the leadoff spot is a "mistake?"

I'd move Rollins out of third, but juggling chairs on this deck ain't going to improve this offense significantly. Either these guys hit (and my guess is that they will improve and in the end the offense will be slightly below average) or they don't.

Remember a short while back when people thought that it would improve the team significantly to give Wiggy more time at 3rd in place of Polly? After watching Wiggy butcher a couple of plays, the clamor seems to have died down. I guess that people realized that their assertions about why Charlie's a moron for not making the moves they deem obvious maybe were a bit over-confident. How many years running have we seen confident assertions Charlie and RAJ were morons unless Brown were inserted into the lineup immediately? People overemphasize small marginal gains that may or may not actually pay off. It's easy to simply be confident that things will be better if only Charlie did X or Y - but his track record of results is pretty unassailable.

I would like to see Mayberry get more time - but the reality is that his long-term track record does not suggest that he's anything near a lock, and as it stands Wiggy and Pierre have performed at a level that makes it hard to justify giving him more time. As a fan, I think that long-term more Mayberry and less Pierre/Wiggy will prove beneficial.At least I think more Mayberry has more upside potential. But I will also say that proclaiming Charlie's choices as "mistakes" doesn't reflect the inherent uncertainty inherent in these decisions.

Actually RAJ must think he has done well now after all the top three oldsters (Pierre, Nix, Wigginton) are actually doing well a combined .330 batting and similarly best among the team as a group in other categories ( OBP and SLG).
Ruiz and Pence are doing OK as well but as a team they arenot watchable the chemistry is totally off.

Can I come back too?

Cory Lidle - Sadly the Phils already have filled their quota of lifeless zombies in the lineup.

Funny. The offense craps the bed for one game and no DPatrone?

Phlipper is right on the money. It's time t make a move with short and long term benefits. We should move Galvis to the cleanup spot. Sure he has a 52 OPS+, but if you consistently get batters on in front of him, he will get the big time hits when you need them, and that's all that really matters. .242 OBP be damned.

this dent in chollie's hat concerns me. in his presser you could just see the blue button peaking from the enlarging crevasse. a baseball hat has a multi-paneled, reinforced crown. not made to be dented. quite the opposite. now that a second dent has appeared on the back, i am fearing for his mental health.

roob needs to order a couple of cases of this new "Ageless Male" testosterone booster.

Sign Abreu so we can complete our collection of over-aged, washed-up ballplayers.

Scott - RF outfield wall sold seperately.

I am telling you. Chollie and that hat crease, that is some gangsta sh8t. I hear he vacations with Cypress Hill.

Rollins (SS), Polanco (3B), Pence (RF), Thome (1B), Victorino (CF), Nix (LF), Ruiz (C), Orr (2B), Blanton (P).

Well will ya get a load of this! I guess Charlie finally got tired of J-Roll's quitter 'tude, & all of the beat guys asking why he was still batting 3rd. Hell, aside from Pete Orr, I don't even entirely hate this lineup!

I'll be there to watch tonight's Lineup Roulette. Depending on which report you believe, I will see either Brian Dawkins, or a robot throw out the first pitch. I suspect either will do better than Blanton.

Oh man, there's like....some power in that lineup.

Golly gee!!

Scott: $20 says the Phillies can't hit either Dawkins or the robot.

Charlie goes with a new lineup.

Of course, Polanco remains in the 2-hole. "Same as it ever was."

The follow faces are on the Phillies website promoting the 2012 All Star ballot:

John Mayberry Jr. = no way in hell
Placido Polanco = You're kidding, right?
Jimmy Rollins = Not a chance
Chase Utley = yeah...right...
Ryan Howard = Nope
Hunter Pence = Possibly, but I don't see it happening
Carlos Ruiz = as a reserve to McCann, sure
Shane Victorino = He ought to make it

GTown: I'm not touching that action. I'll need the $$ for food and adult beverages. Perhaps several of the latter.

Is Galvis on the ballot? If not I think I'll write him in just to piss people off. Quite frankly, there's not a position player on this team what deserves to go anywhere near an All-Star Game.

No fata - you have it all wrong. Charlie needs to read the panicky advise offered by BLers on every game thread. All other mlb clubs are already doing that because they realize the goldmine of genius suggestions offered here daily. Why can't Charle and the Phils FO start doing the same?

You're right Phlipper. But you can surely agree with me that this lineup certainly can't succeed today with Galvis on the bench, right?

Rollins leading off tonight. Oh boy....

Want an idea of why the Seattle Mariners have such a sh!tty offense?

They have Chone Figgins, the massive failjob of a FA signing that it already was, now playing LF. A guy with a 70 OPS+ over the last 2 years (39 last year) is now playing a position where the vast majority of your value is derived from your offensive contributions. Kind of makes me feel a little better about our LF situation.

Fatalotti: Figgins even makes me feel a little better about the Phillies' 3B situation. Imagine how irate we'd be if Charlie sent Chone out there to bat 2nd every night ...

The reason why Nix, Pierre and Wiggy are doing ok, is because Cholly hasnt had a chance to corrupt them yet with his flawed hitting strategies. You cant put the blame on these 3 guys they are back ups. The blame should go on what should be considered the Core(without Howard and Utley presence). That will fall to Shane, Polly, Rollins and to a slightly lesser extent Ruiz. These are you high priced guys that are suppose to be doing it. The team chemistry might be a little off but i dont think the new comers are to blame. More so the old squad becoming stale. Add to this a struggling Mayberry and well we have this.

* forgot to add Pence in there..

I actually like the lineup except I'd flip Orr and Polly.

Despite his decent game the other night, I'd make Polly earn his way back to the 2-hole.

I'm setting the Over/Under on Pete's Orrers at 1, & taking the Over.

awh, I'd go:


Today's FOREX has Canadian Orrers going for .9808, so I'll also take the over, eh.

"The reason why Nix, Pierre and Wiggy are doing ok, is because Cholly hasnt had a chance to corrupt them yet with his flawed hitting strategies"

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on BL, and that is no small feat.

It's statements like this that are why I reflexively defend Cholly against most criticism. There are some legitimate things you can gripe about, but for some reason people feel the need to push the envelope with complete idiocy.

Fatti, I like your lineup better, Well done.

Ummm you must be crazy Iceman is the truth. Come out of your ice cave and open your eyes.

In reality, the line "dumbest thing on Beerleaguer" has lost all meaning.

"No fata - you have it all wrong. Charlie needs to read the panicky advise offered by BLers on every game thread. All other mlb clubs are already doing that because they realize the goldmine of genius suggestions offered here daily. Why can't Charle and the Phils FO start doing the same?"

flipper, I wouldn't call it "panicky advice". I would, however, call it fans' recognition and identification of things that clearly aren't working.

I suspect you agree, unless you think Rollins in the 3-hole has been successful.

Charlie has a tough job, especially when players aren't performing. But there is a real disconnect - or, rather, incosistency - in the way Charlie utilizes players. He also seems to have a double standard, and clearly favors vets.

Now, he's been quite successful in his approach, and I still believe he is a good manager, but that doesn't mean every decision he makes is infallible.

For istance, I think we all believe, Charlie included, that Jimmy Rollins will eventually come out of his slump, and Polly will as well. And I can understand Charlie's desire to stick with them until they come out of those slumps. However, I see no justification for consistently running them out there in the 2 and 3 holes when they aren't producing. If he wants to get them AB so they work their way out of their slumps...well, OK....but why at the top of the order where their lack of production really hurts?

If fully productive Howard and Utley were in the lineup, then he could afford to keep them there - and has done so in the past. But without those two he has essentially let a black-hole fester at the TOP of the lineup.

An Utley and Howard-less Pjillies lineup can ill afford that lack of production at the top.


I agree completely with your comment. Basically, i think the point is that we have lost patience with Rollins, Polly, etc. Charlie hasn't. He thinks they will, more or less, get back to their career profile. The point is, while I would make different moves (change both Rollins and Polly in the order) i don't consider his decisions "mistakes." And his patient approach has worked on the whole.

Batting Rollins in the 3-hole has been a mistake since day 1. Regardless of this slump, Rollins hasn't had a slugging percentage over .400 since 2009, he has declining slugging numbers over the last 5 years, and declining ISO numbers over the last 5 years. Truth is, he is a 7/8 hole hitters at this point in his career, but in this lineup, you can't stick everyone at the bottom (since we have to live with Polly and Galvis' bat on most nights), so you have to at least take advantage of the two things that Rollins still bring to the table: a pretty good ability to get on base, and speed. In that sense, the only place that makes sense for him right is probably the leadoff spot.

Bobby Abreu is washed up, unfortunately. I'd love to see a productive Abreu here, but seriously, does this team need another retread castoff from yet another team? There are enough mediocre players on this roster. The last thing this team needs is a malcontent like Abreu. Do you think he'll tolerate being a bench player in Philly when he wouldn't tolerate it in LA? Thank you for your service, Bobby. You were a terrific player in your prime, but that prime has passed you by and it is time to find a life after baseball. Besides, all he'd be doing is taking up a roster spot for a deserving player. Thanks but no thanks.

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