Game chat: Pitcher's duel on tap in rubber match

Giants right-hander Matt Cain, who flirted with perfection in his previous start, meets Cliff Lee and the Phillies in the deciding game of a three-game set beginning tonight at 10:15 ET. Phillies' skipper Charlie Manuel answered Beerleaguer's call to rejigger the lineup and bench Placido Polanco for Ty Wigginton. Here is your lineup: Pierre LF; Victorino CF; Rollins SS; Pence RF; Wigginton 3B; Nix 1B; Ruiz C; Galvis 2B, Lee P. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[aksmith]

Reposted from last thread:

Polly's bat looks slow. He's striking out. He's hitting for Pierre type power. And in fact, he's barely hitting at all.

Replace him? Maybe. But at least take him out of the freaking two hole. Whoever said it before is correct: He has not been a good two hole hitter since he came to the Phils and probably before that. He needs to hit .340 or so to make up for his lack of speed and inability to move the runner on a consistent basis.

Rollins leadoff. Vic second. Pence third, then who gives a crap. But those three need to be up at the top and Polly at the bottom. Below Galvis at this point is likely.

[bay_area_phan]

Cliff Lee could practically bat cleanup in that lineup.

[GTown_Dave]

One thing's for sure, Cliff Lee is no Roy Halladay. I look forward to being reminded of this fact roughly every four posts or so as tonight's game progresses.

[Bake McBride was Here]

Flyers looking rather Phillies-like: brutal.

Hopefully that means the Flyers' recent mojo somehow gets transferred to the Phils tonight.

[Little Ollie]

We were supposed to watch baseball after a hockey series clincher. Now we need a W from the Phils just to salvage some modicum of pride in the home team.

[Fatalotti]

We were supposed to watch baseball after a hockey series clincher. Now we need a W from the Phils just to salvage some modicum of pride in the home team.

Posted by: Little Ollie | Wednesday, April 18, 2012 at 09:29 PM

Don't worry, the Sixers won. All is well. :/

[gobaystars!]

"Bench the starters, Cholly!"

*Charlie benches starter*

"This lineup is brutal!! How are we gonna win with these bums?!"

[joe l]

Can Chooch play goal? Otherwise the Flyers might be better off with an orange street cone in net.

[The hook]

Let's go flyers lmfao glad they came out to clinch series wow.
Called "taken to the woodshed"

[GTown_Dave]

I think the Penguins scored more in the 2nd Period than the Phillies have all season.

[derekcarstairs]

The sum of a team's hitting, pitching and defense determines how good a team is.

Some posters are willing to sacrifice some defense for more offense. Some are willing to sacrifice some pitching for more offense. That's OK if the team is getting back more offense than the pitching or defense that it gives up.

Using Polanco as an example, if he duplicates his 2011 season and produces a 2.8 fWAR, then his replacement's combined offense and defense should produce at least a 3.8 fWAR. Otherwise, the Phils would be making change, but not accomplishing anything.

BTW, who is this third baseman that can produce a 3.8 fWAR and doesn't cost a lot of money?

[Raul's grandpa]

Previously Polancp started off seasons with iffy elbow issues and the ever mysterious sports hernias which you really can't bat that well through. This year he hurt a finger but that is neglible when it comes to batting weeks in. You either put him 8th and pray for defensive worth, bench or move on.

I know somebody probably came through with this but perhaps Galvis hits second or you move Rolls to his favorite batting arrangement and keep this Taliban-extremist (Chollie as Mullah Omar) style of small ball going for a few months. Either way Vic or somebody slow but powerful hits third and we leave Der Facemelter at cleanup. I cannot even talk about Maybury tonight.

[MG]

No complaints with this lineup. It is about the best one Cholly could trot out there tonight.

Lee better be at 'full tilt' though because if he even gives up 3 R tonight I have a strong feeling he drops to 0-2 on the year.

[Little Ollie]

The only consolation about tonight is I didn't pay good money to be at the hockey arena.

[gobaystars!]

And that's TEN!!

[Bill]

Nats with another win to move to 10-3.

[bay_area_phan]

""Bench the starters, Cholly!"

*Charlie benches starter*

"This lineup is brutal!! How are we gonna win with these bums?!"

Other than my standing objection to starting Juan Pierre, I have no problem with tonight's lineup. I mean, it sucks but it's not like Cholly has some magical lineup alternative which wouldn't.

[wes covington's ghost]

anybody else happen to notice that massive turnout in dc tonight for the first place gnats? that is truly pathetic.

[GBrettfan]

Not me, derekcarstairs. I don't want to sacrifice offense OR defense. I want it all!

[Humbled Flyers Fan]

I think Matt Cain is the SF Giants best pitcher. With the lineup we're sending out there tonight, I'm not expecting much...except for the usual posts on how mediocre Cliff Lee is.

[Little Ollie]

Phils don't need to beat Nats. They can come in second. Or even third.

[MG]

Only way this lineup would look different is if Thome was starting at 1B. Given it is supposed to be cold and rainy, I imagine Cholly is saving Thome for a start tomorrow night or Fri. in SD.

[GTown_Dave]

anybody else happen to notice that massive turnout in dc tonight for the first place gnats? that is truly pathetic.

I know. I can't believe Jayson Werth hasn't been more of a draw.

[bay_area_phan]

Cold and rainy? I think you're getting bad information -- although I suppose it's possible that the weather could be radically different in SF than in the East Bay.

[Fatalotti]

That's about as hard as Pierre can hit the ball.

[bay_area_phan]

Since I have absolutely no expectation of scoring a single run tonight, I'll only be mildly livid when we lose.

[Fatalotti]

Ryan Theriot?? He was supposed to be ours!!

[Little Ollie]

Any reason Phils are blacked out on MLB Network tonight? None comes to mind.

[Fatalotti]

I hate when batters do this sh!t. The umpire should NOT grant that timeout. F@ck the batter.

[GBrettfan]

Sigh. Maybe I should start skipping the first innings of our pitchers.

[Slocs]

Cholly calls Lavy with message - Leights got you to game 6 of Stanley Cup. These Russians are showing me nothing.

[GBrettfan]

SF is hitting .195 w/RISP.

What are the Phillies at?

[Fatalotti]

It must be nice to be a pitcher with a handful of plus pitches.

[GBrettfan]

Thank you, Cliff Lee!

It's been awhile since we've seen a scoreless 1st inning for the other team.

[Fatalotti]

I was totally expecting Wiggy to bobble that or throw it away.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettfan: Entering play tonight the Phils are batting .239 w/ RISP.

[GBrettfan]

Thanks, GTown. So we're doing better than the Giants, on average.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettfan: The Phils also have a .259 BA overall, as compared to SF's .254 BA. The problem:

SF .318 OBP, .406 SLG, 104 OPS+

Phila .296 OBP, .348 SLG, 78 OPS+

The Giants have scored 49 Runs to the Phillies 35 Runs.

[Fatalotti]

I love TMac saying that what Moyer did last night was "typical Moyer", as if Moyer had shown up to camp this year sporting his new 95 mph two-seamer, a wicked 12-6 hook, while throwing straight over the top.

What else did you expect to see from a 49 year old pitcher who was barely scraping 80 when he was pitching two years ago?

[Willard Preacher]

Yeah, but DEFENSE!!!!

[GBrettfan]

GTown - Yes, the Phillies have much room for improvement in the offense department.

[clout]

Rauls G: Galvis batting second? Another brilliant idea from you. Stick to the jokes. When you try to talk baseball you come off like a guy with an IQ of 47.

[Willard Preacher]

Thanks for the reminder about what a crappy announcer TBag is.

[Fatalotti]

Man, Lee can fly for a pitcher.

[Phlipper (back to thinking the Phils will finish ahead of the Mets)]

If the Phils lose tonight they're 4.5 games behind the Nats. The Nats? When was the last time the Phils where 4.5 games behind the Nats?

[Dukes]

i just can't stand wheels and tmac and hearing harry made me realize it even more.

[AL]

Freddy extends the hitting streak! His bat has been a nice surprise the last week.

[Willard Preacher]

Questioning about whether or not to ask Lee to bunt, since he can hit, yet we see 5-6 bunt attempts from non-pitchers a game????

[GBrettfan]

If hitting is contagious, some of our guys should follow Freddy day and night. I don't know if it's beginner's luck or just that the pitchers don't know yet how to pitch to him, but he's doing well!

Love seeing Lee fly up the baseline on a sac bunt.

[Willard Preacher]

Pierre got ALL of that one, too.

[GTown_Dave]

... as if Moyer had shown up to camp this year sporting his new 95 mph two-seamer ...

That would actually have been kinda awesome.

Rosario: "This guy is a first ball, fast ball hitter; he's looking for the heat!"

Moyer: "Well he hasn't seen my heat!"

[MG]

How long before Pierre takes a BB or has an XBH to break up his straight AVG/OBP/SLG line?

[Willard Preacher]

Hadn't noticed it before, but I dig the font on the "Phillies 2012" graphic in the masthead.

[Fatalotti]

Lee is absolutely hitting everyone of his spots right now.

[Willard Preacher]

Drexel Lebow isn't sponsoring tonight's thread? B8stards!

[Willard Preacher]

Safe to assume that "Smiley the Pig" is one of the Phils' ballgirls?

[Iceman]

Funny hearing Wheels talk about not being able to treat Matt Cain like a pitcher at the plate. I was thinking the exact opposite thing about Juan Pierre.

I'd rather have Lee leading off and Pierre hitting ninth. I'm not kidding.

[GTown_Dave]

Preacher wins the thread. No one else should even try.

[Iceman]

Speaking of Lee and Pierre, is there any doubt that Lee would out slug Pierre if he were given 600 ABs?

[MG]

Fatalotti - Yup. Lee is definitely at 'Full Tilt' tonight and good thing too because he is going to need it. This might be a 2-hr game.

[Fatalotti]

The Phils would be better off just bunting the first pitch, and immediately turning around and walking to the dugout.

[phatti]

Unless you count Lee's bunt, the Phillies haven't had a single ground ball out. Weird.

[MG]

Erased. Turn around and the inning is over.

[Fatalotti]

Well, at least Nix an actual better first baseman than Ryan Howard, even if he can't hit like him.

[Fatalotti]

phatti, Cain has a career 37.3% GB rate. He's never been one to induce lots of ground balls, which is why AT&T Park is such a great place for him to pitch.

[MG]

'You need to start hitting a few doubles. Maybe start with a few singles and BBs.'

So says Cap'n Obvious!!!!

[Fatalotti]

It's no wonder this team doesn't take any walks. Lots of free swingers.

[Willard Preacher]

MG, perhaps Sarge should be the next bench coach. His approach makes total sense to me!

[Hugh Mulcahy]

Comcast is schtupping me big time tonight. No Phils on extra innings and internet our for an hour. Glad to see the offense didn't miss a beat because of my issues.

[MG]

Preacher - Maybe. Sure sound like a way to get the offense going. He's terrible as a color guy.

[Fatalotti]

That's right Chooch, you should 'em how to take a walk!

[GBrettfan]

Freddy's up. Come on, Slugger!

[gobaystars!]

I know we all love how Lee hits but pitchers do go about facing the opposing pitcher differently.

[MG]

Ugh.

[phatti]

Of course, there's the first ground ball.
Ugh. Time for bed.

[GTown_Dave]

What a perfect time for Freddy Galvis to remember that he's Freddy Galvis.

[Shane]

I thought Wilson Valdez wasn't on the team anymore...

Oh, wait. That was Galvis hitting into ANOTHER DP.

[Willard Preacher]

Maybe my memory is just bad, but I don't remember nearly as much talk about pitching velocity being down this same time last year.

As a concept, it makes sense (as you presumably build arm strength as the season goes on - until you tire), but I just don't recall it being as big an issue for as many different pitchers in recent seasons. Is it the degree to which velocity has slowed, or the # of pitchers not yet up-to-speed, so to speak?

[Fatalotti]

Reds get my vote for most disappointing start to the season. 4-8 after getting trounced today, have scored a paltry 2.75 runs/game, and have given up 4.42 runs/game.

Just a terrible start to the year.

[Willard Preacher]

Brown would have had that....

[Fatalotti]

When did Lee turn into Derek Lowe, able to induce a groundball seemingly at will?

[MG]

Impressive Lee. He is really locating his fastball with pinpoint control so far and has a really nice curve.

[MG]

1:02. 5 IP played. Lightning fast.

[gobaystars!]

Can you believe these 2 met in the NLCS just 2 years ago?

[MG]

Lee's threw just 51 pitches through 5 IP. Cain just 55. Both of these guys are just cutting throw these lineups like a scythe through harvest wheat.

[curt]

Cliffy's on pace to pitch 12 innings. And looks like he'll have to.

[Turd Ferguson]

J Roll goes deep tonight. He's due.

[MG]

Seals are cool to see if you haven't seen them. 'Despise' though is a fairly apt adjective to describe how people who have lived in SF feel about Fisherman's Wharf.

Of all the places to go on the Embarcadero or in SF in general, it baffles me why tourists waste so much time there.

[Fatalotti]

I hate when the BL comment section turn into a krimped up garden hose, where the comments get "stuck" in the ether, and then all come out in big globs at one time.

[MG]

Gave my dog a treat and the Phils' hitters were out 1-2-3 during the time it took me to go downstairs. Crazy.

[GTown_Dave]

MG: I feel similarly when people visit Philly & want to go to South Street.

[MG]

Nice grab Vic.

[GTown_Dave]

I think Vic just played CF & RF.

[Fatalotti]

These two pitchers are just on. I'm not sure that even if our offense were good, that this game would be at a different stage. Both of these guys are just doing what they want with these lineups.

[GTown_Dave]

Lee: 6 IP, 58 Pitches (46 Strikes, 12 Balls).

[MG]

Awesome. Fast departure time for Sarge ever. Literally less than 35 minutes tonight for Cap'n Obvious and his foolish banter.

[Iceman]

MG- pretty funny dog anecdote. That could be a running theme this year- what can you accomplish in the time it takes the Phils to start and end an inning? I know I went to get a beer out of the fridge in the basement at the beginning of the game and there were two outs before I sat back down.

[GBrettfan]

I love watching Cliff Lee work when he's really on top of his game.

[MG]

Stunned if ever of these starters give up a run tonight. Literally has the making of a 0-0 game that goes to extra innings.

[The Perils of Thinking]

G'Town: "Cliff Lee is no Roy Halladay..."

No... when he's on, I don't think even Halladay looks as good as Lee. Unfortunately, he's not nearly as consistent as Halladay, as we discovered last October...