Game chat: Phillies seek better fortune in Philly

Lineup: Pierre LF; Polanco 3B; Rollins SS; Pence RF; Victorino CF; Mayberry 1B; Ruiz C; Galvis 2B; Hamels P.

Notes: (Courtesy of CSNPhilly.com) - Cole Hamels tries to emulate a terrific 2011 campaign (14-9 with a 2.79 ERA and 0.99 WHIP). For the Marlins, Anibal Sanchez is 3-4 in 11 starts vs. the Phils with a 3.88 ERA and 4.75 ERA in six starts at Citizens Bank Park. However, much of the run production came from Chase Utley (.441 batting average in 34 at-bats) and Ryan Howard (two homers, two doubles, 11 walks). The Marlins (1-3) had their own late-inning problems last series. Heath Bell allowed four hits and two runs in a third of an inning in a 6-5 loss to the Reds.

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Comments

[NEPP]

Jenkins was decent in the 2nd half of 08. He rebounded as a part-time guy and posted a .790 OPS then.

And he was at least a good clubhouse guy from all accounts.

[MG]

Laynce Nix at least gives you moderate speed on the basepaths and above average defense in LF.

If Wigginton isn't hitting and hitting for power, he's worthless because of his noted defensive limitations and lack of speed.

[MG]

NEPP - Yeah but he never had that streak where he hit for a lot of power and really had a strong 3-4 weeks. Jenkins was an afterthought by late Sept that year.

[Jack]

I definitely foresee Amaro signing Bonifacio to a 2-year deal in a few years once his speed is gone.

[nonamePHame]

J ROLL!

[NEPP]

I agree. Jenkins really fell off a cliff in 2008. I mean, the guy was 101 OPS+ guy the 2 years prior and just had nothing left. He was only 33 too...just odd how he collapsed.

[limoguy]

Galvis hits a belt high pitch and Wheels says it's down in the zone. Incomprehensible!

[NEPP]

For a guy that has never played 2B before, Galvis is a pretty impressive defender.

[Jbird]

noname: but if Raul were still a Phillie, he'd be the starter in left, no questions asked come hell or high water.

[NCPhilly]

Surely the prospects we got back in the Bobby Abreu trade would be ready now to contribute and bring some offense to the big league club, right?!

[NEPP]

***Galvis hits a belt high pitch and Wheels says it's down in the zone. Incomprehensible!***

Its almost like Wheels is an idiot who doesnt even really pay attention. The best part was when they showed the replay and he just carried on ignoring that he was completely wrong.

[nonamePHame]

this is true jBird. Bring up Domo (tm).

[MG]

"I agree. Jenkins really fell off a cliff in 2008. I mean, the guy was 101 OPS+ guy the 2 years prior and just had nothing left. He was only 33 too...just odd how he collapsed."

Pretty much describes Wigginton. One of my preseason predictions was that he would be horrible and out of baseball next year.

Schneider should be out of baseball. Actually a couple of guys on the Opening Day roster who likely won't be in MLB next year.

[nonamePHame]

Out of baseball next year:

Scheider
Wigginton
Contreras
Pierre
Pods
Polly?
Thome

[MG]

Polanco is really a guy they need to come out of the gate strong after a strong spring. Need him to get going badly.

[NEPP]

***Thome***

In Thome's case, that will likely be voluntary as he could probably stick around if he really wanted to strictly as a DH/PH.

[nonamePHame]

J ROLL!

[Willard Preacher]

That's the great thing about baseball. After a showing like this, there's another game in just....

What??? 51 hours?!?!?! Dammit!

[sdphillie]

I was thinking long and hard about snatching up Infante last night to fill a bench/spot start 2B. Nah, he's 12/45 against Hamels, a massive 3 doubles fueling his SLG.

Feels like your usual lottery numbers being called on the one day you don't play. Dammit.

[nonamePHame]

THAT WAS MUJICA TO MY EARS

[GTown_Dave]

Can't use Papelbon in games that are late & tied. Can use Papelbon while down 3 in the 9th.

F*ck this noise.

[NEPP]

Papelbon down 3 runs...WHAT A FVCKING SHOCK.

UC kills me. Cant use him yesteray in a tie game but you'll use him today.

[MG]

Good thing Papelbon is getting some work here in a 5-2 game. Haha.

[Greg]

Man in the Box for Jonathon Papelbon?

Not a bad choice.

[Fatalotti]

Oh, you're F@#KING kidding me!!!!

Papelbon is pitching now????

Not in the last two games where we needed a pitcher to NOT give up a run.

I am seriously furious with Manuel right now!!

[shakes]

nonamePHame and DPatrone are neck and neck down the stretch for silliest posters on beerleaguer.

[Bake McBride was Here]

This game and the season so far are this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmPKVvxFb1c

[Get Rube A Beer]

I know this is premature...but...If this team is out of it by the ASG and Hamels and the Phils are still far apart do you think they trade him or Vic or Pence or anyone in order to hopefully play for next year?

[MG]

Cholly - Master of bullpen strategy!

[Willard Preacher]

Paps coming in to "Man in the Box???" Please tell me this is for non-save situations only.

After Motley Crue coming back from break the last 1/2 inning, I'm not sure we're not watching Rock of Ages here.

[RSB]

There isn't one guy in this lineup who knows how to work a count. Thome might be the only one on the entire active roster. So much for that new hitting approach.

[NEPP]

Well, as he'll say in the post-game when he's asked. Pap hasn't pitched in a few days and he needs the work.

And my god did kearns crush that.

[GBrettfan]

I'm sure Charlie was hoping it would be a save situation for Papelbon today....

I liked Lidge's music better.

On the other hand, if Pap's going to give up HRs, best do it while we're already down than to blow a save.

[Willard Preacher]

Welcome to Philly Paps!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[Iceman]

Not even watching the game but glad to see Papelbon in the f*cking game to preserve a loss. Derfinitely glad we saved him for today.

[Fatalotti]

Shut up Wheeler, and stop using this closer "rush" crap to justify your preconceived notions.

[MG]

STFU Wheels about Papelbon not being able to pitch well in a 5-2 game because it is a non-save situation.

[Willard Preacher]

At least it's no longer a save situation. Take that Heath Bell!

[R.Billingsly]

Papelbon down 3 runs...WHAT A FVCKING SHOCK.

UC kills me. Cant use him yesteray in a tie game but you'll use him today

Since 2005, guys. Since 2005.

[Jax]

I have Heath Bell on my fantasy team! Damnit!!!

[bay_area_phan]

I think Cholly instructed Papelbon to give up that homerun on purpose. Now, if he is ever asked about the decision not to use Papelbon in the last 2 game, he can say, "See what would have happened if we had used him?"

[GTown_Dave]

Dubee's excuse for no Papelbon the past 2 days was that they didn't want to overwork him. When he & Charlie bust out the excuse that Papelbon needed work today I'm gonna kill a random stranger. What a f*cking cyclone of idiocy.

[GBrettfan]

I really did like Lidge's intro music.

So, Halladay v. Johnson tomorrow...1-0 Fish?

[crisco]

Ugh. . . so far this is far worse than I expected. Just switched the game off to stare at alligators on Nat Geo wild.

[Fatalotti]

This is how Todd Zolecki defends not using Paps in a tie game on the road?

"Use your closer in a tie game one night then maybe he’s not available the next night when you have a save situation. Think about it that way, "

Yeah Todd, because your best pitcher is needed more when you have a lead and a larger margin for error, then when you have no margin for error. Why can't people understand a simple concept like leverage?

[GM-Carson]

The Phillies will finish in last place in the NL East this season.

I'm being sarcastic.

Or am I?

[Lake Fred]

"He's my guy!"
- Cholly

"Cholly's not my guy"
-Lake Fred

[GBrettfan]

Leslie Gudel just tweeted that all the Marlins' runs have been scored by the hitter leading off.

[nonamePHame]

I am with you GTown

[MG]

Cholly is going to manage the bullpen by the book, concentrate on winning that day's game, and use a veteran over a younger, unproven reliever when the opportunity presents itself.

Just how he rolls with the bullpen. Managed that way since '05.

[GM-Carson]

You know your teams sucks if Austin Kearns hits a homerun off them and it's not 2006.

[Lake Fred]

I guess Paps is in there to get Infante out.

[GTown_Dave]

MG: Exactly. Because he's an idiot.

[Willard Preacher]

"So, Halladay v. Johnson tomorrow...1-0 Fish?"

GBrett, I'm with you on the prediction, but the game isn't until Wednesday. We get an extra day to b8tch about this sh8tshow.

[Bake McBride was Here]

This should be Papelbon's intro. music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Fdly3rX8

Hell, it may end up being this year's theme song.

[GBrettfan]

Couldn't Papelbon have pitched both yesterday and today?

[MG]

Dave - I would say he is 'an idiot' but it can be really frustrating to watch at times. I just don't think he has a good intrinsic feel either for when a starter is done/when to pull a reliever.

[GBrettfan]

Oops, yes, game's not 'til Wednesday.

Oughta be real pleasant here tomorrow.

[Willard Preacher]

Mark my words, sometime in the next 24 hrs or so, we'll get some sort of encouraging news on Howard's return, but no concrete time line. A classic PR deflection tactic.

[NEPP]

Closers aren't allowed to pitch 2 days in a row...especially when there's a scheduled off day tomorrow.

Its not like Papelbon has gone on 0 days rest in his career...other than the 86 times he did so as a Red Sox.

[Steve]

Bake - this year's theme song may well end up being the "Benny Hill" theme

[SLO Phan]

I'm sorry, everyone, but this is all my fault. I broke down and dropped $20 on the mlb.com audio package, knowing there was a good chance that would jinx everything. The Phils are about to be 0-3 since I did this. I'm going to see if I can cancel.

[GBrettfan]

Why would Charlie have that philosophy with Papelbon, about not pitching two consecutive days? Madson's done it. Herndon pitched both yesterday and today.

[Willard Preacher]

The Phillies are 0-1 when facing a team whose manager has recently made insensitive comments supporting a communist regime.

[Fatalotti]

GBrett Manuel has the same philosophy that the vast majority of managers have when it comes to closers. They pitch in save situations, first and foremost, everything else be damned. It's lazy managing, since the managers doesn't have to judge best when to use his closer. He uses him when the scoreboard dictates he's supposed it.

Manage by numbers.

[denny b.]

Could these two morons keep yammering on about moving Rollins back to the leadoff spot?

Nobody can hit on this team. What difference does it make if Rollins hits 1st or 3rd?

A couple of idiots doing the game.

[Willard Preacher]

4 games, 8 total runs (4 of which came in one game in a losing effort). It's not like the symptoms aren't there to be remedied.

[Iceman]

Is this really going to be the way it is with Papelbon? If you're going to spend 50$ on a new toy, at least utilize it correctly.

[MG]

Preacher - "Mark my words, sometime in the next 24 hrs or so, we'll get some sort of encouraging news on Howard's return, but no concrete time line. A classic PR deflection tactic."

Wouldn't surprise me.

[Fatalotti]

To expand on my last post, it was easy to mask this when we had Madson and Lidge pitching really well in 2008, or last year with Madson and Bastardo pitching really well, since you could have used them in either inning, and gotten roughly the same results. Now that it's Papelbon and everyone else, the glaring hole in this philosophy will be sorely felt.

[Bake McBride was Here]

I'm on the Benny-Hill-song bandwagon, for Papelbon's intro. as well as the team's theme song.

It must be done.

[kuvasz]

you're right Fatty, the sign of a small mind is to dismiss context and apply the standard rules.

[Willard Preacher]

denny, I'd actually argue that JRoll will lead off more innings now (after Galvis, the pitcher, and Polly make outs - stranding Vic), than he ever did as the "lead off" hitter.

[TK]

They are garbage. Let's all admit this

[Dickie Thong]

I just logged into my online bank and the security question asked me what my favorite sports team was. I had to think for a moment.

[Willard Preacher]

So, what, another game or two before the Mets trolls come wandering around?

[GBrettfan]

I get the philosophy, but when it's an off-day tomorrow, it doesn't make sense that Papelbon could not have been used yesterday on the road as well as today.

So, if yesterday and today had both been save situations (instead of neither), it would have been ok to use Pap both days.

But since yesterday was on the road, it wasn't ok to risk pitching him 2 days in a row.

With an off-day tomorrow.

[Raul's grandpa]

Might I recommend some hippie stuff..."Fresh Garbage" by Spirit as the 2012 Phils theme.

[STS]

MG - you would think, of all people, a Stanford MBA might be able to understand leverage.

[MG]

Quality of bullpen depends on Contreras/Bastardo. Those two guys pitch well and their fine. When Bastardo is iffy and Contreras is out, they have big problems.

People are also nuts if they think the Phils have a supply of talented young relievers too right now.

Aumont does have nice upside but I would prefer he get at least 2 months at Lehigh. De Fratus looks like he might a nice reliever but he is still coming back from his injury. Herndon's a depth guy. Stutes is marginal. Ditto Schwimmer.

[GBrettfan]

Well, at least Galvis got a hit.

[Lake Fred]

Why is there an off day tomorrow? Is it because day games wear out our old geezer team and they don't have time to recuperate for a night game the fllowing day? Is it so the Miami team can tour and sight see in Philly?

I seem to recall that Cole struggles during day games. Is that what happened?

[NEPP]

Only 3 starters have an OPS over .600. That could be an issue going forward.

[NEPP]

3 XBH in 4 games so far.

[NEPP]

sorry, 4 XBH in 4 games.

[Fatalotti]

3 XBH in 4 games so far.

Posted by: NEPP | Monday, April 09, 2012 at 04:01 PM

sorry, 4 XBH in 4 games.

Posted by: NEPP | Monday, April 09, 2012 at 04:02 PM

Why are you trying to make this offense look worse than they are?

They don't need your help. They've got it covered.

[sdphillie]

I just noticed that the Indians and Phillies reversed a trade that would have given us Chin-lung Hu, a versatile 2B/SS who could likely fill for both Chase and Jimmy.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/huch01.shtml

That's a shame, and further proof that RAJ is doing _EVERYTHING_ in his powers to destroy this once mighty team. In 2009, Taiwan's super slugging sensation produced .933 OPS / 145 OPS+.

[NEPP]

***I just noticed that the Indians and Phillies reversed a trade that would have given us Chin-lung Hu, a versatile 2B/SS who could likely fill for both Chase and Jimmy***

Please tell me you're being sarcastic...

[NEPP]

You should see the lineup the Giants are running out there today...its Sandoval and crap.

[Get Rube A Beer]

Maybe this is just a slump and they will start hitting soon

[NEPP]

Sandoval just hit a HR that might land next month.

[sdphillie]

NEPP - Honestly, I was trolling as sarcastically as I could.

Sadly, here's where it stops. Comparing his career numbers to Mini-Mart's numbers shows an awful lot of similarities. That's what a sub-par replacement player will do to you. I'd say Quad-A, but that'd only insult Mr. Hu.

[The Truth Injection]

I see Fatalotti is still on his closer kick.

I also love how he still thinks his side is the absolute only right argument so no other possibility exists in this world.

Bad game today. The three losses have featured poor execution by the team at the plate and in the field. I don't expect that to last, but it needs to turn around sooner rather than later.

[MG]

Good thing about the lineup is there is nowhere but up. This as bad as they can be offensively.

[limoguy]

What's the over/under on breaking the consecutive sell out streak at CBP?

[Steve]

They sold enough already that they can dump the rest of the teckets on the secondary market and spin it as a "sell out". Much like they've been doing the past few years i'd assume.

[EastFallowfield]

I think they schedule an offday after most team's home openers in case they need to postpone the game.

The sellout streak can continue a while, judging by what they called a sellout at Citifield the other day.

[Scotch Man]

CBP is empty in July. Book it. Already gearing up to grab cheap tix on Stubhub.

[nonamePHame]

what is greater?

Amount of dollar dogs I consume Thursday or

Amount of runs the Phillies score in this series?

[bay_area_phan]

"I also love how he still thinks his side is the absolute only right argument so no other possibility exists in this world."

TTI: The way closers are used these days is just dumb, plain and simple. It is not unique to Cholly. It is a sort of groupthink mentality that pervades the entire baseball industry. But if the "everyone's doing it" defense doesn't work in traffic court, it shouldn't work in baseball either. The manager gets paid big money to put his team in best position to win. If we're paying Papelbon $50M to pitch 65 innings, we'd better damn well make sure that they are 65 of the most important innings that any reliever pitches for us this year. Yet, in the last 3 games, we suffered back-to-back 1-run losses in which he didn't pitch at all, then watched him enter the game in the 9th inning of a game we already trailed by 3 runs. It's completely asinine.