Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Game chat: Dinged-up Nix will DH, Chooch starts | Main | Game chat: Phillies host Astros seeking third-straight »

Tuesday, March 06, 2012

Comments

Great news. Hopefully a deal is coming soon. Getting Cole done will let Rube know exactly where the payroll is at when dealing with the Vic, Pence contract situation. GET IT DONE.

I fully expect Hamels to sign a 17 year, $476 million extension that keeps him in a Phillies uniform through his Age 45 season.

@Nepp: Ruben insisted on the extra 12 years.

...with a team option and buyout for 2030.

The most optimistic part of the whole negotiation is that Scott Boras is not involved in any way.

Rube-
Spend big time -JW has an inside connection with Comcast now, they more than will cover Cole's contract with a new TV deal.
No worries!

I'm hoping Brown breaks through so I can start a fan club named Dom-Nation.

The BL website is curiously omitting the hard-hitting news that the BL twitter feed is all over (aside from the new avi which is tight...) - we need some sort of disposition on the pronunciation of Galvis' last name.

I would really like Hamels to re-sign. Verlander-Weaver-CJ Wilson ought to be the baseline for the deal with a little extra thrown on top for inflation. 5 years $90m?

Jbird- I would think Hamels and co. are shooting for a higher dollar amount than that. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets something in that area or the 3 year/$60m, but I am more or less guessing on those numbers.

Honestly, having any bit of Cole beyond this year would make me happy.

Ken r of fox sports says deal is even close. I wanted to say no sh:t Sherlock. His agent will be here for week. Geez it's like between him and jon h. They play tag for the latest gossip

I think 5yr/$100M is fair to both sides.

gobaystars said Hamels contract talks are a nonissue though, so move along people, nothing to discuss here.

Preacher: Wait, I've always said Gall-viss. Is it Gall-vees or one big syllable like the word valves with a 'G'?

Buster Onley is reporting that the Phils are interested in working out a deal to extend Hamels.

lorecore, to hear TBag beat it to death, it's pronounced Gal-VEES.

I'm with you. I've always thought GAL-viss.

5 years/100m would be great.

Wow, that Buster Onley is really plugged in. What a scoop.


One of my favorite scene in the movie "Airplane!" is when they show a tv caption that says "Counterpoint," and the guy being interviewed says, "They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into. I say, 'let 'em crash."

For some reason, this scene jumps immediately to mind when I think of Phillies fans who would be opposed to locking up Cole Hamels.

No worries on however Cole's contract turns out. Two words: Scott Elarton.

clout, plus Oswalt still remains unsigned. He'd be a viable stopgap for the next 5 years or so.

Preacher: I'd be sad if my favorite NL team didn't have a guy who blew out his achilles signed for a 5 year 120mm deal. Bring on the DH!

I'd suggest that we put Dom at DH but, as of now, his defense isn't good enough.

Preacher, I'm with you. It makes me sad, too. I read a similar piece last year by a Bleacher Report writer, I think it was.

I wouldn't stop watching baseball, but how can one replace the rare but pure joy of seeing Cliff Lee hit a HR? Of Brett Myers drawing a walk in the postseason, and Joe Blanton hitting a HR? Of PH Matt Stairs knocking one out of the park?

Besides which, we'd have less to second-guess managers about, although I'm sure we'll still criticize pitching decisions.

Preacher- Agree.

Before this year, the only argument for the DH was that we could have kept Thome & Howard on the same team for all that time Jim was gone. But now he's back anyway even w/o the DH.

I guess, going forward , it may be helpful as Howard ages.

But I like NL baseball a whole lot better than AL.

Baseball with the DH is not real baseball, sorry!

Forget Hamels. The future of this team is with Mini-Mart. Does he have a hit yet this spring?

Not just a hit, but a HR.

Another Aaron in the making.

I hate the DH. F@cking hate it. Don't care if it gives players who can't field but are talented hitters a job or that it protects pitchers.

It slows up the game, takes a ton of strategy out of it, and make for a duller product.

You would think Selig would realize that people want faster games and not slower games.

MG, in the article Selig deflects his accountability toward any implementation of the DH (something along the lines of "I'll be long gone in 10 years..."). The article talks about the progression of the recent changes in baseball, and how it COULD wind up in implementation of a NL DH.

That said, I'm hopeful that the next Commish is a baseball purist and he keeps the sanctity of the NL game in tact. I also hope that whoever it is fixes the All-Star game and figures out how to improve the umpiring, but I digress.

At any rate, it's not an imminent Selig initiative, but I can certainly see where the DH could be in consideration several years from now. I just hope that the purists don't waiver.

Why not just merge the two leagues and everyone play everyone all year with super division series playoffs? Or have North and South East/Central/West divisions? DH sucks.

Is it just me, or do some of these player headshots look sort of bizarre? Blanton, a few threads back, looks especially terrifying.
It's like Jill Greenberg (http://www.boudist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/glenn-beck_crying.jpg) was the team photographer or something. Downright Lynch-ian.

The best argument for the DH is that it's unfair to the NL not to have it now that interleague play is becoming a routine part of the season. It's lame and a shame that we've gotten to that point, but I don't think the NL is going to hold out for long.

lose the ) in that link...

Personally, I think it's fair to assert that NL teams HAVE changed their approach in the advent of the interleague era. While no NL team is going to invest in a 'real' DH for what amounts to roughly 10% of their games, I do think that a Jim Thome, for instance, wouldn't have previously had legs on an NL team before. I don't expect NL teams to sign a bunch of no-field/all-bat guys, but then again, in my version of baseball you need more than offensive tools to make a career...

It's the small nuances that would be missed. The strategy of a double switch. The pitching style of a guy who doesn't have to step into the batter's box. The late game heroics of a Matt Stairs-type, etc.

also, supporters of the DH are also evil, corporatist, Yankee fans who would replace their own grandmothers with robots if they thought it would result in better pancakes.

Woohoo! Just got my tickets for my daughter's first Phillies game. June 3rd vs. the Fish. She'll be 11 months old. Folks with kids--got any advice for issues with bringing her that I might not be thinking about?

What bugs more than the DH rule is the fact that the AL has a DH and the NL doesn't. Nearly different games. I'd rather no teams have the DH, BUT I'd rather both leagues have it than just one league.

Ruffin Road? That has to be a good sign.

Timr
We took my kid to see the game when it was the Phanatic's b-day so every game after that it never lived up to his expectations of seeing the Tastykake Krimpet get an at bat. He is always concerned with where the Moose, Dog and Bear are and believes the whole Phanatic family should be there.
Lots of little kids (and old fat guys like me) can take the heat but early June should be a good time. Just be ready for him to lose it about 3 innings before you want to leave.

The DH has no place in baseball.

And certainly no place in the National League.

'12 MiniMart and Nix = '11 MiniMart and Bowker

With the move of the Astros to the AL assuring that interleague play will now occur all season long, and with the long ago mixing of umpiring crews and normalization of strike zones, etc., the NL's adoption of the DH, and the metamorphoses of the two leagues into one league appears inevitable.

I hate the DH.

timr, Cotton candy takes forever to eat, so that's a good and messy way to keep her from getting restless. Tip the guy $5 and ask him to come back every 3 innings. Also, take your wife and make your daughter sit with her if you are caught up in the game. I took my son to see what turned out to be Curt Schilling's last game as a Phillie. Had great seats, ten rows up, directly behind home. At some point, I took my hands off the kid and he did a face plant into the seat back in front of us. Left a deep purple bruise like a unibrow across the bridge of his nose. My wife is STILL p!ssed at me for it and he's almost 13 years old.

WP - I think it is a foregone conclusion the DH will come to the NL sooner than later (at least before 10 years) and very well possible while Selig is still commissioner.

Baseball history means next to nothing to the owners or Seligm except in way to make a buck off it. What I am hoping is that the NL owners don't want to have pay another large salary to a DH instead of a 25th guy instead of the inexpensive utility infielder they often carry instead.

It is the greed of the NL owners I place my hopes in because the potential of having to part with at least another $4-5M annually to pay a competent DH vs a backup utility infielder hopefully will make them resist the idea of implementing the DL in the NL.

Honestly the Hamels' news is by far the biggest news in what has been a really slow initial start to on-field developments.

- Pierre/Podsednik heat up as the race for the 25th man commences!

- Gosewisch/Kratz battle for the staring job at Lehigh!

short-term for the Phillies, having a DH spot would be helpful as we could move Howard there at some point as he ages.

So there's that.

Still hate the DH.

If the DH comes to the NL, I'll have a very big reason to drop my season ticket package.

I've been to enough AL games that have less strategy and waaaaay less interest overall.

I could see myself going to a game here or there, but as a purist I don't think I could sit through that number of games watching inferior baseball.

I agree that AL games are typically dreadfully boring. I like double switches, stategic PHing, etc etc.

I could foresee a day when they have "throwback" day when they let pitchers hit still...to try and satisfy purists. They'll have them wear old jerseys, etc etc.

It sounds like we'll have the players themselves to thank for the DH.

I don't know about the idea that DH-play is more fan-friendly because it's more offense-driven. Wouldn't that mean that AL games are better attended than NL games? I suppose it's not as simple as that.

I guess players don't really care about the strategy in the NL.

DH=Disabled hitter...He cant he but his defensive aptitude is disabled...

I actually like the way it is now: having one league with the DH, one without. I've always seen it as something cool that's unique to baseball.

So I just put in MLB '12 The Show and it had a video recap of the last game of the regular season... awesome. Then they showed Mini Mart make that outfield catch against one of the Braves and slam into the wall. He made it look really hard, but I can't remember if that was because he's terrible or because it was difficult.

I loved going to Sox-Yanks games at Fenway. Just hated the 4+ hours you would spend there at times due in part to the damn DH especially in the summer sun.

3 years at Shawshank for Dykstra. Bring back Boggs and it will make a great reality show. Maybe they can get Urbina transfered there too.

I wonder if Nails will have trouble transitioning from the outfield to catcher.

Just as every park is unique in baseball, there is no reason why each league can't have similar but unique rules. In the end, baseball is just a game. I have no problem sacrificing a slight statistical disadvantage against American League teams to watch my preferred rules the other 90% of the time.

Nothing to worry about with Cole.
If the DH comes to the NL it would really bother me. It would be the only thing that has ever made me really like the game less.

I fully expect Hamels to sign a 17 year, $476 million extension that keeps him in a Phillies uniform through his Age 45 season.
Posted by: NEPP | Tuesday, March 06, 2012 at 03:50 PM

followed by:

@Nepp: Ruben insisted on the extra 12 years.
Posted by: mm | Tuesday, March 06, 2012 at 03:51 PM

followed by:

...with a team option and buyout for 2030.
Posted by: Bonehead...

followed by a definitive b_a_p rant:

I'd suggest that we put Dom at DH but, as of now, his defense isn't good enough.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Tuesday, March 06, 2012 at 05:05 PM

Too funny. Who needs to post when this is a click away?

Props to clout, also re: "Trey McCall". Great Conlin rants abound on this sorry character -- mostly as lead-ins to innumerable Daily News articles about the dreary Giles-led Phillies years.

Geesh. McCall may have been slow, but he sure couldn't hit...

I have depended on espn.com for boxscores and recaps for several years. So far this week, they have credited Nix with an error in a game where he was listed as ph-dh, and now have "non-roster" pitcher Worley as tomorrow's starter. Are they in spring training also, or does anyone have suggestions on better sites?

I'll look forward to the NL DH in 2021 when Vic goes off his meds and is hitting DH for the Pirates at 265 pounds.

Instead of a DH, why not have an offensive unit and a defensive unit?

f8ck the DH.

The disadvantage to NL teams when the DH is used is not all that slight -- its the head-to-head offensive difference between a frontline slugger and a 4th outfielder.

I strongly dislike the DH, but I also strongly dislike the way season-long interleague play will screw NL teams without it. As much as I dislike the DH, I can't see a future where it doesn't happen. Interleague play isn't going to go away, and the disparity in those games is too much to ignore.

I don't think it's something Bud Selig could even stop if he wanted to

I think he could stop interleague play, if he wanted to. Who really gives a crap about it, anyway? From that Verducci article, players thought it posed more difficulties of travel, so I would think they'd have given it up.

Instead, Selig et. al. have moved to make IL play season-long by moving 'Stros to AL, and set us down the path to DH in both leagues.

I think it stinks.

goody, go to mlb.com for boxscores. It's the horse's mouth.

Wow, I didn't realize how few good shortstops there are in the game right now. Makes you feel all the better about the Rollins signing.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/positional-power-rankings-shortstop/

fata: what happened to san pedro de macoris, where MLB shortstops where fashioned in seeming endless supply, playing on rocky fields using a milk carton for a glove? has it been destroyed in a hurricane?

bullit, they started selling milk in san pedro de macoris in glass jugs. You ever try to field a wicked hop with a glass jar??

I didn't think so.

The players' union will push for the NL DH because a "starting" DH in the AL is considered to make more money than a pinch hitter and 4th outfielder in the NL. However, I feel pretty good about the Phillies' DH options this year, especially once Howard is back. Between Thome, Nix, Brown, and Mayberry they should be able to man LF and DH capably by the end of the year. Hopefully we'll get a WS lineup with Howard & Thome hitting 4-5. Lord willing and if the creek don't rise.

well played, fata. well played.

I could imagine a push for a 26th spot on the roster permanently if the NL goes to the DH full-time. They've already bent that rule for double-headers in the new CBA where we get to call up another player...adding another full spot will allow them to adopt the DH and ensure none of the bench/bullpen guys lose their jobs (something the Union does care about)

Get the Hamels deal done, Rube. I know Cole says it's no big deal, everything is cool, etc., but I hate the idea of having it hang over the season as an unresolved issue.

Another anti-DHer here, since everyone is weighing in.

The DH is bastardized baseball.

If they sign Hamels to an extension before the opener, does that affect their salary figure for luxury tax purposes?

On that Fangraphs link Fat posted they mention Darwin Barney could find himself on a new team. He's not great (.273/.313/.353), but he's certainly a better utility INF than Mini Mart and I would like to see the Phils explore that avenue if possible. Barney was solid on my fantasy team for a period last year whereas no one will ever put Mini Mart on a fantasy team unless they are tanking.

Amaro is on the record saying he doesn't follow Sabermetrics, but does consider fantasy stats when looking at players.

AL-
It's a fantasy to see Michael on a MLB team.


AL-
It's a fantasy to see Michael on a MLB team.

Posted by: Bubba | Wednesday, March 07, 2012 at 10:00 AM


Whoever's having that fantasy needs some help. Some serious help.

Fata- I think it's Rube, but Cholly might be drinking yhe KoolAid as well.

I also think the NL disadvantage in interleague games is overstated. If an NL team and an AL team have the same revenue, let's assume they have the same payroll. If the AL team is spending, say, $10 million on a good-hitting DH, while the NL team is spending $2M on a 4th outfielder, the NL team has $8M or so to spend on other roster spots, a luxury the AL team doesn't have.

Unless the AL team has more money to spend on payroll than the NL team, the DH advantage is cut significantly by the roughly equivalent improvements to the rest of the NL team's roster.

The DH Debate in a nutshell: Benny Fran Vs. Hideki Matsui.

I question the idea that the DH takes so much strategy out of the modern game. When a starting pitcher is taken out of the game, 24/25 times it's either because of his pitch count or because his stuff is flagging. Once you take him out, most BP pitchers only throw 1 inning nowadays, so there's usually not that much of a question of whether you leave him in. For the Phillies at least, the strategy in question usually boiled down to Charlie deciding whether to use Valdez or a gimpy Ross Gload to pinch hit.

Truly, fewer of those moments would be a grievous loss for baseball.

BB: My point is that the debate is more complicated than it seems when you try to characterize it in 5 words.

In 2009, Hideki Matsui made ~$12M more than Francisco. If the NL had the DH, the Phillies could have had a Matsui-caliber player as DH... at the expense of the rest of the roster. Perhaps they wouldn't have been able to afford Ibanez, or Moyer and Feliz, or Lidge. You have to take that into account.

Dave: Pitching 'around' the 8 hole hitter is one of the biggest parts of strategy. It becomes a chess match in later innings when opposing mangers have both LH and RH reliever warming up, and the other manager sending up a decoy in the batters circle.

In the AL, you can't just walk the 8hole hitter with a runner on becuase the #9 hitter is a MLB starter, not some combo of pitcher/bench player.

DH: You make a good point about the supposed competitive advantage that the AL gets from the DH. But I would also say that, in any one game -- or even a short series of games -- the $10M DH with an .800 OPS is more likely to make an impact than the middle reliever, LOOGY, and 4th outfielder on whom the NL team spent their same $10M.

pitching around minimart and going right at him yields essentially the same results. and i'm certainly not going to complain that the inning is esentally over if a real batter is coming up next.

Iorecore: The pitching around the 8-hole hitter is actually an argument against National League baseball. Nothing gets my juices flowing like seeing a decent hitter pitched around in the 4th inning just so a pitcher can come up and strike out or weakly ground into a double play to end the inning. That's really great baseball!

Jack- That becomes a circular arguement very quickly, there are so few pitchers who can hit (even a little bit) because the DH exhists at most levels except the NL.

I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a DH in the NL yet, b/c of a desire to increase offense/tv ratings b/c people like offense(winging it here).

What's all this talk about DHs? I love seeing two baseball games the same day! You see more pitchers, more players and more baseball. DHs are a GOOD thing. In fact we need more DHs in...what? Not double headers? What then? Oh...

Nevermind.

Jack: What about when it happens in the 6th inning...

Manager has to choose between sending in a PH to hit with RISP and risk bringing in his middle relief early, or letting your starter hit but count on a couple more solid innings out of him.

And even before that, the decision of the opposing manager to walk the 8th hitter to load the bases and risk a PH coming in afterwards, or do you pitch to the 8th hitter with RISP?

Lots in play, and that part of baseball is among my favorite.

Bubba: And that's because major-league teams have decided that in the minor leagues, they'd rather have pitchers develop pitching than work on hitting (which is why there's a DH in the lower levels of the minors). Considering the teams themselves would much rather allocate the resources of a pitcher to learning pitching than hitting, why shouldn't there be a DH?

"Roseandy Annadanna" Funny stuff! (BTW, did you see the "Real Housewives of Disney" SNL did? I watched it on the NBC website yesterday. Hilarious!)

* * *
BB: I've been wondering whether TV ratiings and ballpark attendance really are higher with a DH. I don't think so. I believe PHL and STL are two of the best markets for baseball, no? Both sans DH.

is chollie really good at managing this chess match aspect of the NL game? he seems like more of a checkers kinda guy.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7655555/how-do-know-reliever-become-starter

So in other words there is still no real good way to determine what converted relievers to starters will make it.

I have to imagine this will change with Pitch f/x data available over the next 20 years as analysts have a bigger sample size with individual level observations to determine if they do.

I think we're all just going to have to resign ourselves to a DH. If there weren't already one in the minors, and especially if the players weren't in favor of a DH (apparently), then there'd be hope of retaining NL-style of play in the NL.

I will say that the ALCS of '04 was pretty darn exciting, and that when I was a teen introduced to baseball in KC, I was perfectly content to have a DH. Since re-joining baseball fandom years later and becoming a Phillies fan, I've grown to love the extra strategy and decision-making inherent in NL-style of play. Plus, as I said yesterday, I love the excitement of a Matt Stairs or Cliff Lee HR. One of the best moments of the '08 playoffs was when Brett Myers worked that walk off CC.

But I'm sure I'll get used to having a DH in the NL. I still think it's wrong, but I'll get used to it. One day our grandkids will think it's odd that a pitcher ever did hit in the major leagues. Just like I think it's odd that an out used to be made by actually hitting the batter with the ball.

Jack- the teams decided that because pitchers don't get many at bats because of the DH. And round and round we go.

So, is Utley hurt? I mean, we havent seen him in a game yet even as a DH...seems kinda odd, doesnt it?

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG