Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Clout Day a time for Phillies to get down to business | Main | Poll: Who is the Phillies' biggest threat in the East? »

Tuesday, March 20, 2012

Comments

Rumor is they're looking at David Weathers for relief help.

Comedy of errors. Why Rube would answer 'need infield depth' with 'Ty Wiggington and Jim Thome' is beyond comprehension. Worst crossword player in the world.

We have the new textbook example of addition through subtraction.

Eff the effin' luxury tax, because unless the Phils add some offense this team will not be making the playoffs. No Howard, no Utley...problem. Now no infield depth, not that M&M should have counted as that anyway.

Amaro is full of $hit. Never believe him.

Why God...WHY????

DAMN IT!

Another option to replace what mini mart gave the club would be to just pull a random spectator out of the stands before every game and put him in a Phillies uniform on the bench.

Probably be about as effective.

Love the pun Jason.

Pads still looking to unload Headley and Bartlett?

They could always call Luis Castillo.

The average male spectator drawn from the stands would also be taller than Mini-Mart, and thus more likely to field a good third base.

/shows self out

Or convince Orlando Cabrera to unretire.

Maybe Cliff Lee can play IF on days he's not pitching.

Second basemen
Felipe Lopez (32)
Julio Lugo (36)
Aaron Miles (35)

Shortstops
Miguel Tejada (38)

Third basemen
Wes Helms (36)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Miguel Tejada (38)

ugh...

Uh, Brett? He's a lefty.

I haven't paid much attention to spring training, but it doesn't sound like Frandsen is worth bringing back. Can't Orr do just as good a job as MM, since MM doesn't really do a good job?

It does seem that we're running out of players, however.

This kind of thread makes my groin hurt.

To quote the good book,
"I sure picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue."

Andy: Tejada playing SS at this point would violate several United Nations human rights principles.

I say we stick Dom Brown at 3B. He can't be too much worse there than LF.

Are we really lamenting the loss of Mini-Mart? Hector Luna is probably the better player at this point. And for that matter, so is Pete Orr.

Season = Over

Orr can't play SS. Sorry. He played 8 games there 4 years ago but it was only because the Nats had no one else.

Bring back Bocock! Maybe they'll throw D'Arnaud in.

The issue is shortstop. The Phillies feel Michael Martinez can field that position (some of us disagree, but it doesn't matter what we think). They can either get a backup shortstop or get a second baseman freeing up Galvis.

If we need to cover SS, we can slide Galvis over and put Orr at 2B.

I can't see how losing MM is a blow, other than the unsettling feeling that players are dropping like flies and the season hasn't even begun.

Besides which, Jimmy is not allowed to get injured. Nor is Polly once he comes back.

If only wishing made it so....Well, in that case, we'd have a healthy Chase Utley and Ryan Howard, wouldn't we.

As much as I'm okay with Orr as a quad-A guy, I'd really like to see the Phils use this as an excuse to upgrade the IF depth externally, something we of course should have seen this winter. This, as other posters have pointed out, would require a trade, as the free-floating options hardly seem like steps up.

Luna, if he's still league-average on defense (which I doubt), is probably the best solution in-house since he plays all 4 INF positions and corner OF.

Orr is a terrible, terrible hitter. His glove isn't that good (about league average) to carry such a weak bat.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the house Rube acquires an INF via trade before Opening Day.

I most certainly prefer Orr to Martinez, but that's somewhat akin to saying I'd prefer death by drowning to death by burning. Pete's also a downright menace defensively, as we witnessed in '11. r00b needs to do better.

Also, "Finger points out ..." = the classic Beerleaguer prose we've come to know & love. Well done, JW.

Calling Ramon Aviles. Calling Luis Aguayo. Pick up, please.

Paging Jason Donald...Jason Donald. Amaro Jr, Ruben on Line 1.

Mini Mart getting hurt might have been the best thing that could have happened to this team. Because Rubey now HAS to do something.

Blanton might as well start packing too.

With the chase news yesterday, this one takes the cake. How can the baseball gods let a 2.5 tool player like mini mart break a bone in his foot. Life is not fair. Hope this team can muster up some self pride and get a MM patch and put on the uniforms this year. This seasons for u mini mart.

We don't need another guy on the 25-man roster who plays SS. We've already got a backup SS in Galvis. The only thing that Mini-Mart's injury really changes is that we might want to pick up another SS for our AAA team, in case Rollins or Galvis get injured.

The Red Sox are going to fleece us for Mike Aviles. Book it.

Poll: How many games will feature a Polanco-Rollins-Utley-Howard starting infield this year? Seven? Five?

Before this injury, I didn't think Amaro would make a move and that he would gamble Utley will be back by late April/early May.

This injury basically forces his hand to at least bring another veteran body at 2B/SS to round out the roster.

Frandsen's been a complete zero in camp & I am hard pressed to believe Amaro will go with Orr as his Opening Day 2nd baseman.

And by that, I mean Rube is going to send them Dom Brown.

Getting rid of Brown and picking up a MI is like killing two birds with one stone for Amaro.

Again I agree with dennyb (twice in two days- the apocalypse is upon us). I never wish injury on anyone and I hope Mini-Mart makes a full recovery. But this almost forces Amaro to make a move; a move that should have been made weeks (if not months) ago.

Plus, I have read on BL for the past year that any being with opposable thumbs could replace Mini-Mart and give the team more production. Surely they have someone in the organization at some level who is equally as awful as Mini.

Willard: I have no idea what Galvis will offer offensively. It will likely be less than Valdez or Orr... but it's not like they would offer much either.

At some point, we need to find out if Galvis will be able to give enough bat to go along with what is supposed to be an outstanding glove.

By the way...

I get the argument that Galvis may be better served having his bat mature at AAA... and that Amaro should have done a better job preparing for Utley's issues (which shouldn't be a surprise). That is all true. But now that we're where we are... I'm interested to see what Galvis can do.

I'm confused. We had like 5 guys competing for the last roster spot. Why do people think than in injury to the 5th best of those 5 guys is going to force RAJ to make a move? And why do people think that an injury to our No. 3 SS requires us to go trade for a SS? When have the Phillies ever carried 3 shortstops on their 25-man roster?

We definitely need someone who can play SS at LV, so that we have a fill-in if Rollins or Galvis get injured. But those guys can be gotten on the waiver wire. The idea that an injury to our 5th best backup somehow forces RAJ's hand is just silly.

"Surely they have someone in the organization at some level who is equally as awful as Mini."

Not someone to play 2B/SS. That's how thin the system is.

clout - I don't think it's fair to say that Luna really plays all 4 IF positions. Despite coming up at SS, he's only had one game there since '08, and that was in the Rookie League. The Phils have been treating him as strictly a corners guy this spring.

This is to say, I don't think they have any in-house options whatsoever behind Martinez and Galvis at SS beyond some emergency scenarios.

When have the Phils ever carried 3 SSs on their 25-man? Well, they did for the entire season last year, for starters. Not to say that means they need to this year, but with your only real backup option penciled in as a starter elsewhere, the situation starts to feel pretty hairy. But we'll see what Amaro thinks.

b_a_p: I'm mentally preparing myself for r00b to respond to the Infield Apocalypse by trading Cole Hamels for a relief pitcher -- one that's either very fat or very old, or if we're really lucky, both -- & a couple of toolsy, Single A OF prospects.

Somebody please cut and paste thread from March 29,2011. Same stuff as we are doing now except you guys were sweating the greatest that was Brad Lidge as well.

CJ: So. Best-case scenario is our starting second baseman and our closer only miss half of the season?

Anyone still taking the over on 97 wins?

Posted by: Jack | Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at 06:42 PM

http://www.beerleaguer.com/beerleaguer/2011/03/report-contreras-named-as-phillies-interim-closer.html#comments

Amusing. Great idea, Raul's grandpa

Yeah that's a great thread. Pretty much illustrates what awh was saying earlier.

Finally some good news. I kid. I kid.

This is why you should take 5 mil a year and put it toward a secret project to reanimate Rogers Hornsby.Luxury tax, be damned.

Sandberg is only 11 years older than Thome and looks in pretty good shape. Just sayin....

ah, picked a wrong day to read the comments section.... I see it is cutting day on here... and I don't mean players. Relax folks. Everyone needs to CtFD.

Martinez is no loss.

Trust in Rube. He got you this far.

My bet is Luna is the primary backup for the left side of the infield and second base. Wiggy's glove simply won't play unless he hits a lot better than he seems capable of.

Rube apparently had to dump salary on Valdez to bring in Qualls. So, why would we expect him to pick up and pay another player even the minimum at this point?

"Maybe Cliff Lee can play IF on days he's not pitching."

And even on days when he is pitching.

By now, Thome's got to be thinking, "What the hell have I gotten myself into?"

C'mon people. Missing Mini-Mart? That kid can be replaced in two minutes with just a text message from Ruben. Worries about the offense are legitimate, but not because Mini-Mart is going to miss a month or two.

Wiggy can play second too in a pinch. Again- he will be a butcher defensively in many respects but if he can do anything with his bat he can cover that gap some. He definitely wouldn't be a long term solution though. Move Galvis to short when needed and let Wiggy play second.

This is solely a depth issue.

Months of "anyone but Mini-mart" are replaced by "No! We lost Mini-mart!", really?

Polanco, if he can stay on the field, gives us a solid DP combination and solidifies the defense up the middle (Ruis-Rollins-Polanco-Victorino). The pitchers need this kind of defense. We need a 3B and we need to move whoever we can to get one. No sh#t, they can put people at 1B who will average 15 errors a season but they must have a 3B who can catch and hit.

Didn't read a single person lamenting the loss of Mini Mart. Just the strong possibility that Amaro has to bring in another player now given the current internal options & strong likelihood that Utley/Mini-Mart are going to miss more than just 1-2 weeks.

If the Phils just had to put Mini-Mart on the 15-day DL but that there was a strong possibility he would be back by mid-April, I highly doubt Amaro makes a move.

This changes nothing, other than someone else will suck instead of Martinez.

I really can't wait for this chase thing to come out. Very interesting article about chase from local doctors. And another website had another dr who recommended he go to Europe to visit the dr Andrews of knee surgery. Larry bowa had a very interesting interview on radio about the whole secret injury crap.

lorecore: Which, in itself, is something of a victory. I haven't disliked a Phillies position player so much since Desi Relaford.

From MLBTradeRumors today (before Mini Mart broke his foot)

The Phillies could start the season with prospect Freddy Galvis at second base, or explore the trade market for alternatives. ESPN.com’s Buster Olney hears from rival executives that there’s a short list of veteran middle infielders available in trades. Maicer Izturis, Alberto Callaspo, Chris Getz and Blake DeWitt appear to be options for teams seeking infield depth.

I think we'd be very happy with Callaspo. His bat would play very nicely. He's more of a 3B than 2B or SS so the move at that point would see Polly going back to 2B.

Izturis would also work nicely and he can play all 3 infield positions.

I assume the Angels would like a nice piece for either though.

The prospect of having to say "Al-BEAR-toe Cay-ASS-poe" on air on a daily basis gives me a chubby.

I don't get the whole 'its a mystery about Utley's knee injury.'

The only issue that really came out this spring is that he has issues including tendonitis in his left knee too.

It was well-known that Utley was diagnosed with patella tendinitis and chrondromalacia last spring. Patella tendonitis is quite common, treatable, and goes away with rest. Chrondromalacia can also be treated with rest but it never goes away nor does the underlying condition improve. There also isn't a surgical procedure either to repair it.

Utley is basically a guy who is going to ultimately end up having an artificial knee put in his right knee sooner than later. Yet from reading articles and blogs on this people act like it is some great mystery. It's not.

Wheels,
You know you f- it all up with your Bushian high school Espanol. T-Mac would love to say Maicer.

Elle Ca-BUYYYY-oh!

I see Dontrelle signed a minor league contract with Baltimore. He'll probably be stretched out as a starter.

C'mon, its just mini-Mart. Not saying they don't need to swing a deal, but really, this doesn't change much.

I do miss Wilson Valdez though.

Hamels for Phillips? monumental overpay.

Is Omar vizquel available? Mini mart no great loss. Thus injury hopefully makes charlie and rube forget about him until he becomes an iron pig. Frandsen should be a cut. FYI Lou montanez who looks good was drafted as a ss. I like him and would rather see him get a chance over Pierre or podsednik.

Why would the Reds would trade Phillips for Hamels? One of those 'sounds great in theory' but is a complete non-starter a little more than a week before the season starts.

Not surprised at all that Duquette signed Willis. 'Trash for Gold' theory in effect there. He's either traded/signed at least a dozen pitchers this offseason. O's pitching though has just been that bad and injury-riddled.

MG: you think the Reds are the ones who would say 'no' to that?

lorecore - Strong possibility. Reds would have to take on $3M in salary which I don't know if they would want/be able to and the Reds starting 2nd becomes Wilson Valdez.

Hamels would be a huge upgrade but their offense and defense would take a real hit at 2B.

I would not trade Hamels for Phillips. If i'm trading anyone(i probably wouldnt at this time), its Lee.

Halladay's post-game comments today really impressed me. Answered questions in a calm, collected manner that were thoughtful & insightful.

Most 'professional' player I have ever seen in a Phils' uniform in my life time and he really is the bedrock right now of this team.

USAtoday MLB team previews voted philliesnation as the best fan blog.

Did JW's sellout to comcast take him out of the voting?

The day I start getting my Phillies opinions from Trenton...

lorecore: Imagine the trolls we would get if BL was mentioned in USA Today. Lets keep it to ourselves. Sorry JW, I'm greedy that way.

FYI, a piece by Zolecki tosses in that Utley will open the season on the DL.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120320&content_id=27443030&vkey=news_phi&c_id=phi

Not surprising, but I think there was some question of whether they'd actually make the move to DL Chase.

Just saw a terrific interview (pre-Chase-calamity division) of Cole Hamels by none other than Leslie Gudel at CSN.

Cole Hamels has the disposition of a terrific athlete; his equanimity is off the charts. Nothing bothers him; his pitching through injury last season appears to bear that out. Our young man Hamels is "all growed up" (my best/worst Chollie imitation...).

Someone, please remind me: Why did RAJ drop $120mm on Cliff Lee with Hamels in the wings? Hindsight is always 20-20, but still I want Hamels for the next 10 years rather than Lee for the next 5.

This rates as one of the better occurences of the spring so far (no ill wishes upon Mini-Mart, of course). Pete Orr is, objectively speaking, a better baseball player than Michael Martinez.

Now, that's a bit like saying Ike Turner was a better husband than O.J. Simpson, I grant. Still. These days, you take a small victory where you can get it.

I don't wish Mini-Mart ill but if this gets him off the team so be it.

goody:"Imagine the trolls we would get if BL was mentioned in USA Today. Lets keep it to ourselves. Sorry JW, I'm greedy that way."

"Sinn Phein?"

k: no comprende.

Cholly was utterly distraught when his Braid hair prodigy was injured....Anyways i dont quite hate MiniMart as many you on the BL'er do...

Mini-Mart injured! We must immediately trade all of our top prospects to fill his important position or the season is over.

On the 59th day of the season, Utley will be placed on the 60-day DL, retroactive to opening day.

goody: one problem with explaining a joke is that to dissect it kills it, but here goes.....

Your remark about "Imagine the trolls we would get if BL was mentioned in USA Today. Lets keep it to ourselves."

The last sentence of yours dovetails metaphorically with the Irish independence motto and political party "Sinn Fein," translated from Gaelic as "we ourselves."

Thus, Sinn Phein with Ph replacing F indicates the BL blog as a Phillies blog of Sinn Phein or "we ourselves..... Phillies Phans."

It is clear that you're not Irish, but nobody is perfect, which is why I'm Italian (at least from the waist down).

Sophist, excellent point.

mini-mart has a broken foot?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I could entertain trading Hamels for the following reason:
1. We might get a hometown discount on a long-term deal if he goes somewhere this year not Philly, like Lee did.
2. We can plug the hole with Vice-Roy this season, he is still gonna be a damn good #4
3. We could get a real 3B or 2B.
4. If we bundle in a few prospects, we may get a couple of real good MLB position players.
5. By trading him now, we could have teams that think they can compete, especially with the extra wild card team. Some of these teams like Toronto, Cleveland, Colorado, Minnesota, White Sox may feel they can always trade him at the deadline if things don't go well. Some of these teams are deep with good prospects and position players that could balance out our lineup

At the end, we have 2.5 aces that will likely win more games than 3 aces with no hitting

Who is the 1/2 ace? Worley? Blanton? Kendrick? I'd say none of the above are close to anything ace-like.

Rube will figure something out. Trading to replace a 3rd stringer doesnt make sense even for RAJ. My guess if they make a move RAJ will go trash picking for the ST cutties.

We all know chase has bad knees. The things that make fan base mad is you had at least three months to rest and rehab knee. Why not in Jan did he try and say hey knees hurting I am gonna see specialist etc. And not having any team docs go with him really? I know the whole fans pay salary etc crap is overblown, but had chase and knees were this bad and he told team officials about this. F the tax should have signed aram and moved Polly to second. Aram in 4 spot would look a heck of a lot better then wiggy

Slocs: Hamels for Youklis and some prospects.

Youklis can alternate between 1B and 3B as needed.

(Sure, the Bosox would do that.)

Yeah i guess they thought rest, eating Wheaties, less or different leg strength exercises would help. Im assuming they knew he wouldnt be on Opening Day last week and kept BS'ing. Until someone said they aint going to keep buying this manure especially since he hasnt played a inning, thus what was already becoming more and more obvious was made official.

I don't get it. Isn't Utley under contract doesn't the team have some say on rehab vs. medical procedure? Or is it just Philly?

I'm sure the team has "some say" on surgery. I don't know what the standard MLB terms are w/r/t decision making on medical care but, I'd bet my left nut the player also retains some right of control over surgery. In the circumstances, where rest and rehab are typically prescribed, the available surgical procedure has a relatively low probability of success and a 100% probability of depriving the player of at least an entire season on the field, I can't see the team prevailing in any scenario where it alleges a breach of contract by Utley for declining to go under the knife.

The hook: just because Utley is seeing a specialist now in no way indicates that Utley hasn't seen several specialists over the offseason. Utley has been in contact with doctors and the team training staff, who have surely been monitoring his progress, just like they did during the 08 offseason, when he had hip surgery. People need to stop assuming that the Phillies woke up March 1st and said to themselves, "Oh yeah, Chase has bad knees. Forgot about that!" What should be concerning is that the Phillies and Utley had all offseason to deal with this, and even after all that time, a workable solution has not been found. That's not an indictment of the team or the player, that's a measure of the severity of the injury, and that should be frightening.

RK, I'm sure the team has some say over specific paths, but don't think they can force Utley to have surgery, or anything of that magnitude. In the end, it just seems that there's very little that can be done for chrondomalacia, and for whatever can be done, you just have to hope that the player in question responds favorably, and cna play through the inevitable pain. Since so much of Utley's game is based off lateral quickness (defense), and since the foundation of his swing is generated through his lower body, it may be that Utley can never do the things he once could due to physical limitations.

How can the baseball gods let a 2.5 tool player like mini mart break a bone in his foot.

Your decimal point is 1 place too far to the right.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG