Part of

« Valdez trade contradicts Amaro's concern for depth | Main | Read: Financial calamity threatens future of Mets »

Thursday, January 26, 2012


Bye-bye Lidge, and thanks for 2008.

The reason Lidge isn't a Phillie is Howard's contract wouldn't allow it.

Best of luck, Brad. I'll buy you a drink in DC

I'll be the first guy in line to buy him one. Best of luck to a true professional who gave us a season - and a euphoric moment - that time cannot erase.

Thanks for that tribute & farewell, JW. I'll miss Brad Lidge. It's unreasonable how sad it makes me to lose him. A real quality man. I wish him nothing but the best!

A 1 year $1M deal seems like a great one for the Nats. I'd have liked to have seen Lidge back with the Phils for that.

Phils payroll is pretty tapped out though. So many big contracts will do that. They're still gonna win the NL East though this year, so stay happy for the time being.

Lidge will strike out the side on 9 pitches the first time he faces us in a game.

All 9 will be sliders.

When I wanted to buy a jersey after 2008, I went straight for LIDGE because he closed so many white-knuckle games. In my mind, he was the MVP of that year.

Thanks for the awesome memories Brad. You are a class act!

do i get free beer too?

What's the over/under on Lidge's days on the disabled list? 40?

Good deal for the Nats. They could use another bullpen arm. Low risk, moderate reward from them on a deal I wished the Phils had made instead.

***do i get free beer too?

Posted by: Ryan Madson | Thursday, January 26, 2012 at 12:17 PM


No, you can set up the table off of which Lidge drinks the beer though.

The only reason Lidge isn't in Philly is Howar . . . oh, I see that's already been done.

Carson ruthlessly ripped Hamels for two years on here and now he's worried about Hamels walking. Funny how that has happened now isn't it?

Good luck Lidge.

Godd luck, Brad, against everybody but the Phillies!

I'm just glad JW didn't offer to buy beer whenever Pat the Bat wanted to come back to town. He'd be broke and fathers all over the Eastern Seaboard would be locking up their daughters come 7:00 each evening.

For the record, I'm not buying Danys Baez squat.

Does Danys get a portion of his jersey sales? If so, I think you're covered.

I will tip my cap to him for his heroic performance in the 19 inning game though.

JW, you've done more than enough already for Danys, to be sure!

JW, how's that jersey fitting these days?

NEPP - I don't think Lidge could throw 9 strikes in a row any more if his life depended on it. I think this is one of those times where we should remember Lidge and all he did for the Phils in the past, but feel glad that we don't have to rely on him in the future.

Though, in the JW/Baez vein, I'll wait until I see a healthy JRoll in Spring Training, but I'm prepared to go on the record as saying that if Galvis makes the MLB roster out of camp, I'll not only purchase a Galvis jersey, but I'll find a throwback Bruntlett jersey, just for the hell of it, and wear one or the other everyday for a solid week, and every weekend of the season.

With MM's shortcomings at SS, I could see the Phils calling Galvis up down the line, if a JRoll injury requires it, but no way in hell is a guy who hasn't yet figured out AAA pitching making the roster as a utility player (where he'll get only sporadic playing time/fewer AB's) and pinch hitter (where he'll be called upon to showcase his offensive deficiencies and deteriorate any "prospect value" he may have).

Unless there's some super-secret MLB All-Star league that plays over the Winter and Galvis has shown a sudden ability to light up Kershaw, I'm not sure what's changed since last September to elevate Galvis's value to the Phils. He didn't even get a call-up with September roster expansions last year.

Lidge gets a lot of credit for being a stand-up guy even when he struggled. The team should've gone to Madson far earlier than they did, but that's not Lidge's fault.

His work in 2008 and his willingness to do whatever the team asked afterwards gets him points in my book. Agreed that he's an all-time Phillie and can't imagine anyone having ill will towards him.

Thank you, Brad Lidge. Sorry to see him go.

Good riddance.

Per Heyman tweet:

also hear philly is bottom fishing for infielders. maybe $50M for pap and 2 yrs for nix werent the best ideas, after all

A little sad to see him go. Had no idea he was 35 already! At least we'll get a chance to catch up when he comes back for the alumni events and WFC anniversaries.

Oh, and he gets more saves this year than Madson. :)

A's just DFA'd Adrian Cardenas!!!!!!!

I just KNEW Rube had a plan!

Did I read that last thread right? Did the Phils just trade Chase Utley for a minor league pitcher? Oh wait, it was Wilson Valdez that they traded. My bad.

Can we trade back Joe Blanton to DFA for Adrian Cardenas? Would DFA pick up any salary?

That Heyman tweet is revolting; it proves once again what a complete stooge he is for Boras--what the hell does that dig mean unless it's intended as a nose-thumbing to the Phillies for not signing Madson?

Did anyone see Peter Jackson's Return of the King with The Mouth of Sauron? Heyman is The Mouth of Boras.

Wilson Valdez was as steady as the sunrise -- 9 errors in 99 games. Sabermetrics aside, with all of the innings and games missed by Polanco, Utley and Rollins, the Phillies still won 102 games with Valdez "holding down the fort" while the "starters" mended.

When does the other shoe drop -- bringing us a player just that steady defensively with a big bat? Otherwise, the deal just makes no sense.

Oh yeah. Nice '08, Brad. Too bad '09 had no choice but to follow it.

"theeee oh-two pitch, swingandamiss, struuuck him ouuut..."

Anyone who has a bad thing to say about Lidge today is too callous to be a friend of mine and too stupid to breed.

Great write up JW, and thanks for the memories Brad.

(and I too would have liked to see the Phils sign him to this exact contract if possible. He's going to have a mild rebound year and will do fine in 7th inning work.)

*** I don't think Lidge could throw 9 strikes in a row any more if his life depended on it.***

They'll swing at the ones that are balls.

Nats beat reporter says Lidge is in the best shape of his life.

clout, has he spent the off-season adding velocity to his fastball, too?

And his knee feels great.

And I hear he's throwing off a mound

Adrian Cardenas was just bumped off the 40-man roster by the A's. He was sent to Oakland in the Blanton deal. In 6 minor league seasons he's hit .303/.780 playing 2nd, SS, 3rd, and LF. I'd take him for utility infielder. He's only 24 years old too.

Does that mean we could make a claim on him?

If so, Rube should be jumping on him.

He has 10 days to be traded before he hits waivers. Doubt he'd make it the whole to the Phils via waivers. However, Amaro could trade for him for next to nothing.

We could trade Horst for him...

Doesn't it mean he either gets sent to the minors or could be traded? Unless he has enough minor league yrs to be a free agent. Not sure if these are the options.

Appreciate the Lidge of ought 8, but he's cooked. I doubt he finishes the season with the Nats.

There's no way Cardenas would pass thru waivers. My guess is the A's have made a trade.

Would they take Mini Mart for him?

Would Mini Mart even be on anyone's 40 man roster besides the Phils?

"Would Mini Mart even be on anyone's 40 man roster besides the Phils?"

He'd have a chance to make the Lancaster Barnstomers' 40 man roster.

Brad Lidge will always hold a prominently place in my cube: Cover of the Metro "Finally"...

and in storage a framed photo of the final out, that will find a place somewhere someday...

I don't blame Howard's contract...

I blame Howard's celebration...

I wonder how Cabrera is going to transition to 3B for the Tigers. Maybe they coat the ball with 'essence of bacon' when hitting him fungos in spring training?

Why do they need to move Cabrera again? Dont they have a DH spot for one of them with VMart out for the year?

He may a GG bonus clause in his contract.

Lidge can drink free, just not coffee.

" way in hell is a guy who hasn't yet figured out AAA pitching making the roster as a utility player..."

Not clear, Preacher. Do you mean Galvis or Mini-Mart?

Heck, I might send Aumont, Ramirez and Gillies to Oakland for Cardenas.

No way Beane would take that deal, though.

NEPP: "Why do they need to move Cabrera again? Dont they have a DH spot for one of them with VMart out for the year?"

Exactly right. They have no need at all to put Cabrera in the field. Unless they want to get Delmon Young's bat in the lineup and that would make no sense.

Still, Leyland said Cabrera's moving to 3B. Strange.

Martinez OPS by year and age in the minors:

2006, 23: .630
2007, 24: .627
2008, 25: .697
2009, 26: .719
2010, 27: .720

I wonder how many position players in the past 20 years have had similar minor league numbers, and how many have been able to play in the majors after debuting with a .540 OPS at the age of 28. Is there anyway possbile that its more than just Michael Martinez?

"Would they take Mini Mart for [Cardenas]?"

Maybe if you threw in Halladay.

Can Wigginton actually play 2B and 3B? If so, Mini-Mart doesn't just step into Valdez former role. Mini-Mart is the primary SS backup, and Wigginton is the primary back up at second and third. Valdez backed up all three positions last year.

If Rollins gets hurt we'd probably see Galvis or even Orr. Phils have Wigginton, Mini-Mart, Orr, and Galvis, and Valdez is 34, making $1M, and probably a .240/.300/.340 hitter *at best* next season. Not a controversial move just a bit puzzling since Valdez is a small expense and, as far as any of us know, a third lefty doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

per b-ref play index:

There have been 41 players since 1950 that have been 28 or older in their first MLB season to amass more than 200 PA.

When sorted by OPS, Michael Martinez is dead last. So the Phillies are basically making modern MLB history by allowing Michael Martinez to play in 2012.

By the way, Chris Coste is #1 by a landslide with a .881 OPS in 213 PA in his first year.

Sophist: Preach it.

lorecore - So basically, Mini Mart's career path is relatively unique, he was historically terrible, and likely to get as much PT this year now.


Thanks for the meories, Brad. Was hoping, somehow, he might find a way to be around another year. All the best except when he pitches against the Phils.

If JRoll gets hurt and misses a stretch, the Phils don't have anyone in their organization right now than can step & give them over a .600 OPS for a stretch.

Wrap JRoll's leg in bubble tape when they travel.

I wasn't aware that either Orr or Wigginton could play SS. That is, play it any better than Ryan Howard or Dom Brown.

"Not a controversial move just a bit puzzling since Valdez is a small expense and, as far as any of us know, a third lefty doesn't seem like that big of a deal. "

Sophist, by my count, Horst is actually a FIFTH lefty, behind Bastardo, Willis, Diekman and Savery. I qualify all 4 ahead of Horst as they're actually on the active roster, whereas Horst is not.

mainerob: Lived in the Reading area my whole life.

@MG: "If JRoll gets hurt and misses a stretch, the Phils don't have anyone in their organization right now than can step & give them over a .600 OPS for a stretch."

A solid, solid point for anyone who, for even a second, thinks that Galvis is anywhere near ready to be part of this team in any contributing way. After all, they re-signed Rollins for a reason.

Good point WP. Horst's chances of making the opening day roster are 0% right now unless the Phils get hit with a calamity of bullpen injuries in spring training.

Wiggy is primarily a thirdbaseman. Below are his games at third, with runs saved/lost vs. average:

2007: 80, -8 runs (i.e. lost)
2008: 82, -6
2009: 39, -7
2010: 22, -1
2011: 68, -1

At 2B:

2007: 39, -5
2008: 0
2009: 8, +1
2010: 40, -7
2011: 0

He even played 9 games (only 13 innings) at short in 2009. There was a 2-3 month stretch where the Orioles kept putting him at short in the late innings.

We know that Rube does not like to go to arb, so maybe:
a) He already has a deal in place for an upgrade over Valdez.
b) That player is in arb with his current team.
c) Both teams have agreed to let that process finish before the trade.
d) The Reds agreed to the same process with Valdez.

Yeah, MG, SS is the one area that this move definitely hurts. The point I was making, which aksmith completely missed it seems, is that Mini-Mart isn't stepping into Valdez' role last year. Wigginton is the primary backup at 2B and 3B (I never said Wigginton could play SS). If Polanco or Utley are on the DL again, and no other move is made, Wigginton is going to get a bunch of starts at 2B/3B (with, I'd guess Mayberry moving to first if Howard is still out). Last year Valdez got those starts.

Sophist - Yeah. They take the a defensive hit but get a little offense.

Just wonder who is going to be the RH bat off the bench until Howard returns given they seem pretty set on starting Wigginton at 1st as a regular.

Means Mini Mart is going to get his share of PT early. I understand why Amaro rolled the dice on him last year. Don't understand why they would do the same again last year after getting such poor results with Mini Mart.

Cholly: Last night we said a great many things. You said I was to do the thinking for both of us. Well, I've done a lot of it since then, and it all adds up to one thing: you're getting on that plane and going to Washington where you belong.
Lidge: But, Cholly, no, I... I...
Cholly: Now, you've got to listen to me! You have any idea what you'd have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten, we'd both wind up in Triple A. Isn't that true, Rube?
Ruben: I'm afraid the fans would insist.
Lidge: You're saying this only to make me go.
Cholly: I'm saying it because it's true. Inside of us, we both know you belong in Washington. You're part of their work, the thing that keeps them going. If that plane leaves the ground and you're not on it, you'll regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
Lidge: But what about us?
Cholly: We'll always have 2008. We didn't have, we, we lost it until you came to back off of the DL last summer. We got it back then, for a short time.
Lidge: When I said I would never leave you.
Cholly: And you never will. But I've got a job to do, too. Where I'm going, you can't follow. What I've got to do, you can't be any part of. Brad, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of two little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that.
[Brad lowers his head and begins to cry]
Cholly: Now, now...
[Cholly gently places his hand under his chin and raises it so their eyes meet]
Cholly: Here's looking at you kid.

MG - If Valdez was the primary, pre-Howard, R-handed PH before this deal, then the Phils didn't lose that much of an asset. Such a small sample anyway, and Valdez is a .243/.290/.330 career hitter. FWIW, Valdez is a career .103/.188/.138 hitter as PH. Just let a lefty hit.

If you don't like the Phils bench now, you probably shouldn't have liked it before either.

Against RHP -- Thome

2011: .253/.385/.493 (91 PA), 5 HR
2010: .241/.298/.471 (94 PA), 6 HR
2009: .209/.314/.429 (105 PA), 5 HR
2008: .233/.337/.521 (169 PA), 10 HR

I'd let him PH before Valdez.

Please crunch some more stats to prove that Thome is a better hitter than Valdez, i'm not convinced yet.

Not necessarily trying to say that I like what FO has done with the bench top-to-bottom, just don't think Valdez' departure has anything more than a marginal effect on things (backup SS).

I would have liked to see the Phils do something more than Wigginton-Thome, honestly, but I can see why Valdez is seen as largely redundant at this point. Just strange because his roster spot isn't that valuable and the move only saves the Phils $500K.

lorecore - I was kinda of making a joke. Point is, in a big spot if Valdez is PH with Thome available everyone on this blog is posting those numbers against Valdez' to show how dumb Charlie is.

I would be very surprised if in the end it turns out to be a money-saving move. Ruben plays with the big numbers now. There's at least $0.5 million just in the cushions of his office couch.

sophist: Does the Valdez trade make the team stronger or weaker?

Also, calling Wiggy an acceptable backup at 2B is a bit of a stretch. He is absolutely awful there.

schmenkman: The notion that the Valdez trade was a salary dump is laughable.

clout, maybe RAJ just had a brainfart.

clout - that's why I asked if Wigginton could still play 2B. I guess if Utley goes down for an extended period, you shift Polanco to 2B and Wigginton plays 3B. In either case, Mini-Mart shouldn't be the first replacement in.

The Valdez trade makes the MLB team a bit weaker in that they have less depth at SS. Depending on how much he's regressing and how well he plays 3B (or maybe 2B, I don't know), Wigginton is a net benefit at 2b/3b, isn't he? Valdez may be seen as some as the first RH bat as a PH, but what are the Phils losing their? A bad bat: Thome and Mayberry/Nix/Brown are better.

So is the loss of depth at SS made up for by gains elsewhere? I don't know. But anytime you vacant an MLB roster spot and replace it with nothing it will be harder to argue the MLB team got better.

Phils are in a mess when it comes to the IF but they were before this anyway. Really should have gone with a bigger dollar sol'n to cover the patches (Scutaro / Pena) if possible.

And when I say Wigginton is a net gain, I mean Wigginton at 3B / Polanco at 2B is better than Polanco at 3B / Valdez at 2B. Valdez departure may mean Charlie has a few less lineup mistakes to make (PH Valdez over Thome because the pitcher is a lefty).

Lidge is at two notches to the left of done. The ailment of the year should kick in around April 9th. Glad the Phils didn't try it again.

sophist: "And when I say Wigginton is a net gain, I mean Wigginton at 3B / Polanco at 2B is better than Polanco at 3B / Valdez at 2B."

I agree with this.

I still cling to the belief that the Valdez trade is a prelude to something else.

Yeah, no reason to trade away depth when you have the roster spot and the $ otherwise. Quizzical move unless they really like the LHP or there's something else going on (another move or an injury).

If Polanco goes on the DL, Wigginton isn't going to be the everyday starter at 3B either or at least not for long after Cholly gets to see how crummy his defense is there.

I imagine it would be a combo of Wigginton/Mini-Mart as Cholly has shown he will clearly sacrifice some offense at that at 3B for above average defense. Maybe even at 2B too given how limited Wigginton is limited from a range perspective at this point.

Trading Valdez isn't a big deal. He's a marginal player who potentially hits the end of the road this year as a useful MLB.

It does mean thought that unless the Phils make another move that Mini-Mart is going to see a fair amount of PT this year especially early. If Mini-Mart is at only 2B/3B, you at least might get above average defense but get some of the worst offensive numbers in MLB.

LF - You forgot the "You may not regret it now part" - my favorite. And Rube walking off arm in arm with Chollie. But nice work.

Trading Valdez, in and of itself, isn't the big issue that's fed this discussion for more than 24 hrs now. It's trading away his versatility, thereby implying they rely on inferior versatility in the way of Mini-Mart, for an entity/skillset they have no need for in another LOOGY, and a name that's universally not recognized as anything more than org filler.

clout's right - this is an absolute prelude to something else, even if that "something else" is a diagnosis that RAJ has early onset dementia. However, I do expect a FA signing for an underwhelming "supersub" any day now. RAJ is known for upgrading even his good commodities, certainly not for voluntarily downgrading to save what amount to a couple of bucks.

This is what I will miss about Valdez:
He hit pretty well with RISP

.370 / .407 / .534 / .942

To augment WP's point: it's not trading away Valdez that bothers me. It's trading for another season of Mini-Mart that bothers me.

Lake Fred -- Amazing bit of parody! However, something’s really, really creepy about visualizing the glowing, goddess-like visage of a gorgeous, young Ingrid Bergman through the magical, gauzy filming technique of Hollywood in the late 1930’s; then realizing the story is about Brad Lidge. Who never had that "blemish" or whatever it was removed from his face (shudder).

You know, I wasn't too bothered about Werth's departure, and if Rollins had walked it wouldn't have phased me much emotionally--but Lidge going, for some reason, really gets to me. It must be that last inning of the 2008 WS.

BTW, if you read the High Cheese article on Lidge's departure, it sounds as if the Phillies don't have the financial ability to offer him what the Nationals did. This knowledge, coupled with the dumping of Valdez to save peanuts, has me feeling more depressed about the team's future than I have in a while. When historians look back at this era of Phillies baseball, Amaro will be remembered as a GM who inherited a winning dynasty and ran it into the ground through sheer idiocy. I wouldn't mind the team scrimping pennies to stay under the luxury tax if I didn't know they went up against the tax in the first place by awarding one of the worst contracts in baseball history to Howard and a similarly stupid one to Pap.

They're gonna sign Gerardo Concepcion.

We seriously didnt have $1 million free and we had to move Valdez to save $500K?


Yet we blew everyone out of the water on Papelbon? Rube is like one of those guys that blows his entire wad in 20 min in Vegas at the Blackjack tables and then he's mooching off of you to pay for his buffet.

This entire thread is a great tribute to how much Mini Mart sucks. He's like one of those crappy bodegas that relies on cigarette and weed sales to survive with the 5 year old dust covered cans of cat food on the shelves.

If they don't make a move, they are top-heavy fiscally and want to save what little flexibility they have for in-season moves which is the smarter thing to do.

It also means though they have less depth in a bunch of spots this season including the starting rotation, the bullpen, and even the bench if that's possible.

Should know in another week or so if the Phils sign an established MLB utility infielder. If they don't, they are really hard up to take any additional payroll & needed to free up some payroll for Pence.

AT--so negative cheer up all is well---you will forget bout Madson by May 1st ---Howard will make all bl naysayers eat their words and Hamels will retire in Philly --think positive it's healthier

Gawd, you are the eeyore of the blog, AT. Were you born with a silver spoon in your mouth? You do realize the team that you die with (it appears you can't live with them) won yet another division title last year. Five in a row at my last count. Get over it and see how it plays out in the next few weeks. Maybe even wait until they start playing games for real before you consider taking a dip in the Schuylkill.

Callison -- "This is what I will miss about Valdez:
He hit pretty well with RISP

.370 / .407 / .534 / .942 "

Callison, I agree he did well last year, but it's in a small sample of 82 PAs. For most players that's the kind of stat that winds up close to a player's overall stats over time.

Through 2010 he had a .704 OPS in 201 PAs, and he's now at .296/.354/.419/.773 for his career, which is still better than his overall stats.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel