Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Read: Financial calamity threatens future of Mets | Main | Report: Phillies, Pence avoid arb with $10.4M deal »

Friday, January 27, 2012

Comments

Juan Pierre on a minor league deal is a steal (pun intended).

He's a career .311 pinch hitter, and one thing you can count on him doing when he pinch hits is making contact. He has no power, but the speed (albeit diminished some) is still there. He's pesky. I love this deal.

Salisbury keeps mentioning Podsednick. Is there something he knows the rest of us don't know?

Theriot > Valdez
Theriot >>>> Mini Mart

Do Pierre and Theriot have a long-term fit on the roster, particularly when Howard returns? Valdez's exit creates a spot and need for a SS to spell Rollins, and Howard's spot could get filled by a 5th outfielder temporarily. But who among a six-man bench of Schneider, Nix, Thome, Wigginton, Pierre, and Theriot gets cut when Howard returns? Probably Pierre...or go with 11 pitchers?

Ryan Theriot would be a nice upgrade from Wilson Valdez.

And Juan Pierre is the type of player that I've felt was missing from the Phils for the past few seasons. A burner on the basepaths, low-strikeout guy that can be a total pest. We seem to get killed by these players but never have one on the roster. Getting him on a minor league deal would be a steal.

Podsednick had foot injuries that caused him to miss most of the year. He's an after thought.

If Amaro brings in Pierre/Theriot, the bench will look quite nice. Upgraded substantially over what they ended the season with or had most of last year.

I feel old every time I see a player who I remember coming up from the minors as the next big thing sign a minor league deal hoping to squeeze out one more year in the sun before hanging up his cleats forever. It's been happening a lot lately.

I'm dating myself (since no one else will date me!) when I say the first player I remember coming up as a sure fire can't miss who suddenly couldn't play anymore was probably Dale Murphy. Since then, it's happened more and more and more. Someday, sooner than any of us will realize, we'll be talking about how Dominic Brown has signed a minor league deal with the Rays and we'll reflect on the brevity of baseball life...

Plus Juan can lay a freakin bunt down and Ryan can move runners etc. Maybe he can teach these guys what mark mc was teaching the cards with hitting. Bench really solid if they can get those two on cheap,

A bench of Pierre, Nix, Thome, Schneider, Wigginton, and Theriot would be very nice.

11 man pitching staff could work for this club because of the starters ability to go deep and KK as the longman in the bullpen.

"Ryan Theriot would be a nice upgrade from Wilson Valdez."
--
I don't see it. 2010-11:

Valdez .254/.300/.351 (.285 wOBA), -3 fielding runs
Theriot .270/.321/.325 (.289 wOBA), -10 fielding runs

But he would be a nice upgrade from Martinez, which is really all that matters now.

Dan- If you think YOU'RE old, I remember it happening to Willie Montanez in 1980-82. The guy was on 3 teams before coming back to the Phils for a 1-17 final stat line.

schmenkman - You take a bit of a defensive hit at SS but probably get a little more offense.

Just means that they don't give lots of PAs to Mini-Mart which is the goal.

By the way... it would be criminal for the Phils to allow Cardenas to clear waivers and go back to Oakland considering there are empty spots on the Phils 40-day roster. I'm not sure Cardenas gets there, though.

It's a question of what's more pressing: a fielder who can play CF well (Pierre) or a utility infielder to replace Valdez (Theriot).

Nix isn't a CF, neither is Mayberry, Wigginton or Brown. They're all corner outfielders. And without Valdez, the Phillies lack a player who can hold 2B or SS unless they want to use Mini-mart again.

For my money, Theriot is the better pickup. With the health issues of Rollins, Polanco, and Utley they need someone who can at least provide a decent average and OBP for a bench player. He should, therefore, get more at bats.

Really, there's not that much daylight between the two as hitters. They're both 280AVG/320-330OBP guys with no power. Theriot's age 32 and Pierre's age 34, both can steal a bag. It's a question of which bench need is more important, and I'd say utility infielder right now.

"But he would be a nice upgrade from Martinez, which is really all that matters now."

schmenkman, exactly!

(For that matter, based on numbers someone posted yesterday about the OPS for late 20's first year players who got at least 200 PA [mini-mart ranked dead-last], ANYONE would be an upgrade fom mini-mart.)

Nothing says Spring Training is nearing like a bunch of vets signing minor league deals.

MLBTR says it's official:

Phillies announce they have signed Juan Pierre to a minor league deal.

Mini-Mart getting a spot on this roster would be the baseball equivalent of making Juan Castillo defensive coordinator.

awh: Correct, b-ref says that Minimart is 41st in OPS out of 41 players since 1950 who debuted as 28 or older and gotten 200 PA. Added FYI was that Chris Coste was 1st.

Point of the research was that no MLB team has ever stuck with a player who was so bad with no potential(debuting in his prime).

Carson, I agree about the 11 man staff, but I'm not sure the Phils do.

Maybe if Worley takes a step forward this season and proves he can be a 7-inning pitcher (he averaged 5.95 IP/start in 2011) they'll consider it later in the season. Blanton has only averaged 6.2 IP in his career, and I'm sure they don't want to burn out the bullpen early in the year until they know how the #4 and 5 spots shake out a bit.

I'll be the voice of dissent on Juan Pierre. Why? How many outfielders do you need? Where exactly does he go when Howard gets off the DL? Did he suddenly learn to play shortstop? I was flat-out disgusted when we signed Laynce Nix, and Pierre's .657 OPS (posted in each of the last 2 years) is almost .100 points lower than Nix's 2011 OPS -- and without the defense.

Speed off the bench is an overrated commodity. Over the course of a full season, how many times do you think Juan Pierre would pinch run? I'd put the over/under on around 12. More importantly, how many times do you think that pinch running substitution would result in a run that wouldn't have otherwise scored? I'd put the over/under on 1 and I'd bet the under.

"Over the course of a full season, how many times do you think Juan Pierre would pinch run? I'd put the over/under on around 12."

So you think Juan Pierre would pinch-run once out of every 13 or 14 games? How much would you like to bet if I take the over on that?

And I'd take the over on the other stupid bet BAP posited, also.

Pierre's game is very reminiscent of Luis Castillo's, but without the ability to draw walks. I predict his Phillies career will also be very similar to Luis Castillo's.

So bap, Herb Washington is 60 now, but I hear he can still motor. You wouldn't want to sign him to a minor league deal?

I agree about speed off the bench.

Oh yes, Juan Pierre a bit too old and a deal
years too late.
Juan Pierre = The rich man's Doug Glanville

MG~ I didn't say Pierre addition wasn't a good one, but Saisbury & others have mentioned that Podsednik would get a shot to make the team in ST. I didn't realize he was hurt last year. Just saying that he & Pierre are basically the same type of player.

Now, are they close to signing Theriot as well?

bap, it's the rainy season out there right now, no? Please, stop acting like someone just baked the poodle. It's a MINOR LEAGUE deal.

Theriot is a necessity where Pierre is a "luxury". On a minor league deal, It's OK. I think Theriot MAY get a major league deal only because there could be another team or two who have enough interest to warrant it.

Theriot's signing with SF, according to MLBTR

"So you think Juan Pierre would pinch-run once out of every 13 or 14 games?"

Try to resist your knee-jerk "BAP is always" wrong reflex & actually use your brain to think this through, for once. For Pierre to pinch run, there would have to be a perfect storm of events: a close game in the 8th inning or later, in which he has not already been used up for pinch hitting, in which one of our hitters has reached base, and in which the guy who has reached base is slow (that eliminates Rollins, Utley, Vic, Pence, Mayberry), and someone whom Cholly would actually pull from the lineup (that eliminates Howard and Ruiz). We're basically down to Polanco, Wigginton, Thome, and Nix. Sounds like about a 1 in 14-game scenario to me.

Looks like we're shopping at the Mini-Mart again

awh: I didn't say the move is cause for outrage. I said it's pointless.

Signing Pierre allows the Phils to shop Victorino to free up more payroll. We're pretty strapped by that Howard contract.

Who else is out there? Bill hall?

Speaking of theriot, what the hell happened in his age 26 season.

K: 18
.328(ba)
.412(obp)
.522(slg)
.934 (ops)
135(ops+)

I'd say peds, but that shouldn't affect k's in any way then. Cubs management sucks.

mm: Small sample size (159 PAs) happened.

Juan Pierre would be Jim Thome's personal caddy.

Theriot to the Giants.

Giants sign Theriot. That sucks.

Patrone - no way. Glanville was a better defensive outfielder with far more extra-base pop in his bat.

That said, and despite his well-known sabermetric deficiencies, I've always liked Pierre as a guy who plays the game right, gets the maximum out of his ability, and makes things happen when he's in the game. Amaro's moves to increase the roster depth (the salary dump of Wilson Valdez notwithstanding) have been prolific and impressive.

BAP: Your right, totally missed that.

sorry Patrone, meant Raul's Grandpa.

Felipe Lopez, anyone? Ugh.

Ryan Theriot at this point in his career is terrible defensively at SS and league average at 2B.

What does the Pierre signing say about Dom Brown's chances of heading north with the team?

But clout, Theriot performed in the playoffs! That's all that matters remember?

Of course Theriot goes to the Giants. Why? Because they'll start him.

Doesn't matter how good a team is. Most players will take a starting job in say, KC or Baltimore rather than ride the bench for the Phillies or Yankees.

Sweet, another decent minor league signing. I dont think it has anything to with DOM or anyone else - it just is another option worth stashing in case on injuries, a late career rebound, or we're up 30 games in the division around June.

clout, I think it's safe to say that Brown can plan on setting up shop in Lehigh Valley for the foreseeable future. Probably for the best and I hope it does him some good.

And if Brown is in LV, any talk of Galvis in Philly is 110% ludicrous, positional scarcity aside.

@ Clout

I think it means Ruben Amaro was entirely serious on MLBTV when he said they'd keep Brown at AAA for the entire season.

Which I think is a very good move on their part. Guy's a football player they drafted to play baseball. The more seasoning he gets at AAA, the better.

1/2. See if Amaro can still swing an upgrade over Mini Mart. Make even a minor trade. Shouldn't be that hard to bring in an upgrade.

I have no doubt that Dom could benefit from more time in the minors, but I do find it difficult to follow the logic that Dom Brown (.725 OPS in 210 major league PAs) needs more time to develop, while Michael Martinez (.540 OPS in 234 major league PAs) is ready to take on an even greater role.

Count me in on the meh side of the house on the Pierre signing. As long as they see him a 6th OF in the organization, to be stashed in the minors, I'd be cool. But it looks like he makes the team out of Spring Training as things are setting up.
His D is overrated; his arm will make us long for Ibanez's arm. :)

Rube...just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber, you go and TOTALLY redeem yourself!!!

When the inevitable outfield injury comes this season, Piere wouldn't be the worst guy to have fill in. The one thing he may still be able to do is steal bases. Many here have bemoaned the Phillies station to station baserunning profile these past few years. At least this guy can swipe a bag or two for you. I don't want to see him in the starting lineup for any extended period of time, mind you, but I think he'd do ok in short bursts.

A couple interesting things about Pierre

1) He's led the league three times in making out on purpose, which will make many beerleaguers happy.

2) Two years ago when he led the league in SBs, he got plunked 21 times, which makes me think that he stole some of those 68 bases when his team was comfortably ahead. (Corresponding with that is that last year his 27 SB/17 CS is a kinda scary percentage.)

All things considered, however, Pierre on a MINOR LEAGUE DEAL is an astoundingly good move.

So no Theriot. So in essence, RAJ din't really bolster the offense, and now the bench is weaker than it was a couple of days ago. What gives?

Basically every minor league deal for a once-skilled major leaguer is a good deal. Much rather have them prove they are still good (or recovered from injury) in the minors.

Pierre has a useful skill set and actually would be more valuable in the playoffs than during the regular season (where moving baserunners is even more important).

I like the attempt to strengthen the bench. Nix has power and can play all the OF positions. Seems like a good platoon with lefty mashing Mayberry. I wanted Phils to get Wiggy last year as a RH PH and 3B option, since Polanco could move over to 2B. I think Thome will hit the wall this year but a feel good signing. Still a HR threat with a good eye. Pierre/Posednik offer bunting, contact, and speed. Schnieder and middle INF are terrible but if Worley keeps pitching great to him then it will be worth it.

Two years ago when he led the league in SBs, he got plunked 21 times, which makes me think that he stole some of those 68 bases when his team was comfortably ahead.

Help me here, if I'm being dense. Why would getting hit with a pitch imply that his team was ahead?

If it weren't for Howard's contract we would've outbid the Giants for Theriot.

Reading's GM Scott Hunsicker on radio: At least 2 of Pettibone, May, Colvin, and Julio Rodriguez will be in REading on Opening Day.

DPatrone, you mean didn't really bolster the offense from the league-leading one they had for the last 2/3 of the season?

It's a little early to be referring to the offseason in the past tense, IMO. 69 days til opening day.

"So in essence, RAJ din't really bolster the offense, and now the bench is weaker than it was a couple of days ago. What gives?"
--
DPatrone, you mean they didn't really bolster the league-leading offense that they had for the last 2/3 of the season?

It's a little early to be referring to the postseason in the past tense, IMO. 69 days til opening day.

Per MLBTradeRumors, Ryan Howard has actually sent $1.25 million to the Giants to help pay for Theriot's salary.

What is up with this guy?!?

***At least 2 of Pettibone, May, Colvin, and Julio Rodriguez will be in REading on Opening Day.***

Considering they all played in Clearwater last year, I'd hope all 4 would be in Reading to start the year. Even Colvin despite his terrible 2011 season. Hopefully he comes into ST in actual game shape instead a fat POS like last year.

The baby aces are growing up

At least 2 of Pettibone, May, Colvin, and Julio Rodriguez will be in REading on Opening Day.

And if it wasn't for Howard's contract, all 4 would be.

Pierre's defense took a serious dive last year per UZR...I wonder if that's statistical noise or a sign of decline.

He used to be a plus plus defender in LF despite his 5 year old girl arm.

I could see Colvin and Rodriguez staying Clearwater for the start of the season.

So Reading would be Rameriz and Hyatt returning to Reading with Pettibone and May coming up and I guess someone like Cloyd or Edell rounding out rotation.

He used to be a plus plus defender in LF despite his 5 year old girl arm.

Maybe in LF, but his routes in CF used to make Victorino cringe.

Total Zone (-2) and BIS (-3) also had Pierre as somewhat below average.

I'd kick Hyatt up to AAA. He's older and a low-ceiling guy anyway. He was pretty solid in a full year in AA last year anyway. At age 26, there's no where else for him to go.

***Maybe in LF, but his routes in CF used to make Victorino cringe.***

Which is why I specified LF...his range made up for his route running in LF.

Edmundo, I believe that the inference is that Pierre was plunked so many times as retaliation for stealing cheap bases late in blowout games. Not sure that's a safe assumption to make. Utley is plunked more than anyone I can recall and, "dirtiest player in the game" label aside, I don't know that it's all intentional. He's just good at getting hit by pitches.

Edell signed with another team.

Was Jeff Conine given a job in scouting or something? Just trying to figure out what's up with the former Marlins, several years after fire sale mode, making their way up I-95 this Winter.

We can probably anticipate a Wes Helms homecoming to sure up 3B in the next couple of days.

Pierre on radio: Being the godfather of Dontrelle's 3 daughters was definitely a factor in signing with Philly.

Just wants a shot to make team, excited with direction of team and understands they've got most of their roster set. Loves being the guy who does the 'dirty work' for a team.

Amaro has made 3 of the best minor league contract signings this offseason (Pierre, Pineiro, and Sanches).

If he can fill in the "Kenny Lofton during the sunset of his career" mold, I'm fine with limited use on the big league team.

Meant to include earlier from Hunsicker: Phils want Galvis two spend two more full seasons at AAA.

BAP- it isn't worth arguing over such a stupid statement, but keep in mind that if Pierre does make the roster, he will pinch run for Jim Thome almost every single pinch hit appearance in which he walks or ends up on base. You can probably say that for Wiggington, also, once he returns to a bench role. And of course Nix and Polanco.

Think about how many times Manuel ran your boy Bruntlett out there in a pinch-running role, and he wasn't even fast. Pierre's speed would be a weapon that I'm sure Cholly would have a use for more than 14 times during a season, assuming he's on the roster for the duration.

I'll leave this alone now, because like I said, the statement is too stupid to waste time on.

Pierre's routes in CF were always mystifying to watch. My favorite was his initial 'Freeze!' reaction like he was playing a game of freeze tag when the ball was initially hit. Then he would break like a mad man not necessarily in the most direct/straight forward route to the ball.

I wonder if Hector Luna would be a better utility infielder than Michael Martinez?

Why is everyone bitching about the Valdez trade? Isn't Wigginton the primary reserve now?

I guess Ruben has a thing for old dudes. When will this team get younger instead of older with every move?

Defensively, he's always reminded me of Soriano, which isn't exactly a compliment. That said, I don't see his primary role with the Phils relying on any defensive "skill set."

"I wonder if Hector Luna would be a better utility infielder than Michael Martinez?"

GM Carson - it all depends. Does Hector Luna still have a pulse and the ability to stand on two legs? If so, yeah, the answer is probably yes.

Juan's a little guy. Maybe they can strap him to Dom Brown's back so he can he tell him the best route to a fly ball. This is crazy talk hour isn't it?

Not often that you see a guy play 158 games one year and have to sign a minor league deal the next.

Iceman: Bruntlett entered the game as a pinch runner 17 times in 2008 and 12 times in 2009 (an astounding 9 straight appearances without a PA).

I'd take the under on 14.

Honestly if i was forced to bet, i'd take the under on 1 since I dont think he makes the team.

Luna looks like a pretty good hitter, but he hasn't played shortstop in years. Seems like a poor man's Ty Wigginton to me.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lunahe01.shtml

Why is everyone bitching about the Valdez trade? Isn't Wigginton the primary reserve now?

Well, there's this position called Shortstop and there is this concept called Defense. But other than that ... :)

Juan's a little guy. Maybe they can strap him to Dom Brown's back so he can he tell him the best route to a fly ball. This is crazy talk hour isn't it?

Did ya ever hear the expression 2 peas in a pod?

Edmundo - If a team is ahead by, say, seven runs in the late innings and you steal a base, guess what happens the next time you come to bat.

Laynce Nix: Major League deal.

Juan Pierre: Minor League deal.

Yeah, that makes sense. If history has taught us anything it's that we'll end up seeing far too much of the former, & little to none of the latter. And none of this helps the infield disaster at all.

I'm willing to bet that Hector Luna plays defense with the same general ability as Luis Aguayo.

"Basically every minor league deal for a once-skilled major leaguer is a good deal."

Absolutely true. I just don't view the addition of a .657 OPS player as grounds for euphoria. In that regard, I am a distinct minority among Beerleaguers.

Preacher: Forget Luna. Steve Jeltz could squat his 52-year-old ass on the infield dirt tomorrow & I'd assign the resulting turd a uniform number & declare it a better all-around ballplayer than Michael Martinez w/out any hesitation whatsoever.

"Breaking news: Phillies sign Pierre to minors deal"

Meh.

The Ironpigs will be loaded for bear to start the season.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG