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Thursday, December 01, 2011


Its posts like this one that set Beerleaguer apart among the large number of Phillies blogs out there.

JW understands that we actually want to discuss a AAA OF departing the franchise.

Love it!

I'm convinced Bowker has pictures of somebody.

Can they get him back in the Rule 5?

Bowkerrrrrrr hero of the NLDS!

Let's just go for it and sign Hiroyuki Nakajima.

Now that Moss is gone, I'm going to start trying to like Bowker. Those AAA numbers look pretty good.

(My favorite '90s Phillie was Jim Vatcher.)

Bowker is yeah...

Every time I see Bowker's name, I get angry. I just cannot understand it.

Similar batters to John Bowker through age 27 (via Baseball-Reference) ... No. 2: Brandon Moss.

At least Moss could play all 3 OF positions. Bowker can barely play 1B.

Puzzling at best. Maybe they look at him as a possible 1B replacement with Howard gone.

They should just get a cardboard cutout of Howard to replace Howard instead of Bowker.

Don't say such things NEPP. Not even in jest.

I'm just trying to rationale their curious decision to keep Bowker around.

NEPP: I applaud your attempt, but it is futile. No rationale reason exists, apart from blackmail.

Maybe he was with Wheels and Monty when they dumped that hooker in the Pine Barrens...

Bowker is being kept around to give Rizzotti someone to emulate.

Ok, can someone explain why the name "Brandon Moss" conjures up an image of a black guy? I know it's not just me, someone else mentioned it.

Fumphis: There are some guys with black sounding names and others with white sounding names. I always thought Lastings Milledge was a white sounding name. Very WASPy.

Long time since I've checked in to the BL universe, but I'm lukewarm on Paps. Kinda agree with the posters who are wary of his seemingly fastball-only repertoire. My irrational fan-itude also wants Rube to pull out all the stops and give Reyes what he wants, as he's obviously the best SS available at this time. And I wouldn't mind seeing RAJ walking into the Winter Meetings with a "What would you give me for D. Brown?" sign hanging around his neck.

Irrational, maybe. But fan IS short for fanatic.

From Al Udeid AFB in Qatar (and Lord no, I am NOT in the Air Force)

@ Fumphis: I should just let this one alone, because it's silly, but you're obviously thinking of Randy Moss. Not too hard to figure that one out.

"They should just get a cardboard cutout of Howard to replace Howard instead of Bowker."

Can't they get Utley's chair to slide over instead?

Per MLBTradeRumors, the Mets offer to Reyes is 5 years, $80 million while the Marlins offer is a 6 year deal in the $70-90 million range.

Also, those are apparently the only two teams with offers on the table as the Phillies are out as are several other clubs.

We could easily sneak in there as that's not a brutal price. Still, its a big commitment to a guy with a bad injury history.

The Braves, Giants and Phillies are out of the bidding, according to's Jon Heyman, with the Brewers and Tigers seen as "iffy" or very unlikely candidates by Heyman and's Danny Knobler.

Last we heard from Heyman in big Phillies news:!/SI_JonHeyman/status/134153011424538625

Heyman is usually completely and utterlly wrong so that's a good point.

I assume we already have Reyes under contract and he's picking out his red pinstripes as we speak.

Did Reyes sign yesterday over wasabi mashed potatoes at Continental?

Marlins sign Heath Bell, 3 years, $27 million.


Heyman is the 'Sex Panther' of MLB trade rumors except his percentage of actual success in breaking a story is much, much lower than 60%. Low teens. Bell at 3 years, $9 million per better than Papelbon at 4 years, $12.5 million per?

" Bell at 3 years, $9 million per better than Papelbon at 4 years, $12.5 million per?"

Makes Amaro look a lot smarter. Better to pay the premium for the filet mignon instead of try to save a few bucks and end up with skirt steak and possibly ground chuck.

Today, Brandon Moss. Yesterday, Brian Sanches, Scott Elarton, Kevin Frandsen, and Pat Misch. The day before that, Scott Mathieson. Beerleaguer is really in its element this week.

If Heath Bell is ground chuck, I don't even want to know what that makes Scott Elarton.

"earning four innings in right field"

Ooh, ooh, I can say that I sat in the RF bleachers for the entirety of Brandon Moss' Phillies career!! At one point I think it was Kratz, Bowker, Orr, Valdez, MiniMart, Francisco, Mayberry, Moss who were in the field. With a bevy of Matheison(sp?), Schwimmer, and others on the mound. Good times!

and Savery, too!

Sorry about the "Continental" mis-reference. Heard the rumour second-hand lol. On another topic, does anybody else think the Heath Bell signing is a huge risk given that he's 34 with a steeply declining K rate? 4 yrs 36 Mill (option included)seems a bit much in light of the Marlins other needs. Unless, of course they sign even half of the free agents that have taken "the tour" of the new park.

I read three SF accounts yesterday and the usual rumor mills and none show the Giants are into JRoll orReyes. I suspect Mr. Roll is getting less than the expected attention and perhaps he will be sliding down his demands sooner than later.

I hope the Phil's take a look at Joel Zumaya. I know he hasn't pitched in about a year but he used to be dominating pitcher and closer. Nothing a minor league deal shouldn't solve. I think it be an excellent signing.

Soler Power, BAM!

***If Heath Bell is ground chuck, I don't even want to know what that makes Scott Elarton.***

That stuff that doesn't make it into dog food?

Bell's deal has a 4th year vesting option for another $9 Papelbon's deal look pretty realistic at this point I think.

Moyer to Sand Diego. Did anyone else hear this?

NEPP - Bowker is listed on the depth chart as an OF.

The amount of difference it makes in having Bowker on the 40 man roster versus Moss, at this point, is so minimal as to qualify as "trivial." Either one would have been DFA'd for the late ST waiver wire relief pitcher acquisition. Moss is better and more likely to provide real replacement player value at a big league level, but neither is likely to see much daylight in the grand circle of a major league stadium.

Actually, I take that back. Moss has a shot at actually playing for Oakland.

Actually, Ishmael, with that moniker I always assumed you were a Navy man.

"Bell's deal has a 4th year vesting option for another $9 Papelbon's deal look pretty realistic at this point I think."

What a surprise!

Andy: If you look at the stats of the guys who played OF for the A's last season, Moss absolutely has a chance to get some ABs. I'd be shocked if Bowker sees daylight this season.

Actually, the news that the Phils are out of the bidding for a premium free agent with a NY team involved make me think that the Prince of Darkness has already cut a deal with Jose Jose Jose for a cheaper amount because he wants a Ring Ring Ring.


JW - Is there some kind of subliminal message about Rollins on your play list? I mean having "Fragile" right next to "Jimmy; Eat Contract"?

Plus, two Wars, some Fighters, hysteria, ashes and fire and bad ingredients? Not sounding too optimistic there, J-man.

You forgot a young Young.

Personally, I've never liked Reyes. Too much of a showboat/hotdog (and for the record I've criticized Phillies' for that too), and while he'd be a big offensive upgrade over JRoll......when healthy, to this day I don't think he's anywhere near as good as Jimmy defensively.

If it came down to Jimmy at 4/48 with a 5th year option, and Reyes at 5/90 - 100, I'd take JRoll and spend the "savings" elsewhere.

Again, people outside of Philly say all the same things about Victorino.

Not advocating that we sign Reyes but he might be just that type of guy.

Is that Moyer to San Diego news confirmed?

I cant find it anywhere on the net.

He lives out there. Moyer pitching at Petco makes a lot of sense to me.

I was hoping we'd get him back as a 6th starter in Lehigh.

If teams keep signing closers, Madson will end up accepting arbitration.

NEPP, I understand and acknowledge that the Phillies' players are not saints in that department. And I acknowledge that Reyes is the superior - when healthy - offensive player.

I'd still rather have Rollins under the circumstances I listed above. IMHO, unless you're getting "Utley at his peak" type numbers [.300-.310/25-30/90-100/.850-.925 OPS] I wouldn't spend th ekind of money Reyes wants on a player.

I wouldn't give Reyes 5 years, $90-100 million.

5 years, $80 million would be about the max he should get.

Meyer, Madson(Boras) may have overplayed his hand by shopping the 4/44 deal to which they had "apparently" agreed.

I really don't know what Boras is thinking. the red Sox had/have a fall back with Bard. The Yankes have Mo. What other team was/is going to outspend the Phillies for a closer? I don't see one.

On a different scale, is Ryan Madson this year's Chad Durbin?

Any scenario in which Madson's best bet is to accept arbitration?

NEPP, I wouldn't give that contract to Reyes either. That's why I posted that I'd still rather have JRoll at 4/48 (with option) and spend the other 4mm/yr elsewhere.

On a more personal note, at least Mrs. Mad dog doesn't have to worry anymore about Philly girls giving her husband their phone numbers when she's standing right there. :)

If the BoSox and Blue Jays both look elsewhere, Madson is basically pretty screwed at that point. Most other teams already have a closer or dont want to spend 8 figures on one.

Sophist, maybe. What would he get? $6-8MM on a one-year deal and be an FA next year? At that point might the market be better?

He'd get a bit more than $8 million in arbitration. He made $6 million this year and was an elite closer.

awh - don't know if it's likely but I wouldn't be opposed to the Phils taking advantage of (what looks like) Boras' blunder and trying to lock Madson up for a couple years at something a little less than what Bell just got.

haven't looked at next year's RP market. Boras did find a 1-year deal for Beltre that worked to his client's advantage long-term. Relief pitching being more volatile, not sure I'd recommend that path for Madson, but really ... where he is going to pitch?

NEPP, remember when Varitek refused the Bosax arb offer because he(Boras) felt that the Sox could still cut him with a minimal buyout up to 45 days before the season started? I wonder if Madson(Boras) would have the same concern? Does the new CBO allw for that?

At least it won't be a replay of the Millwood debacle. Having Madson would make the pen about the best in baseball between Papelbon, Madson and Filthy Bastard. The rest could be KK and a bunch of kids and nobody would mind at all.

Would the approximately 8 million hamstring the team from making other moves? Well, who really cares. With the best starting three at the top of a rotation and the best back end of the pen, and a good swing guy, it's not like the Phillies will ever have to score a single run.


I can see the Blue Jays (even under AA) spending more on things like relief pitching with the new playoff structure. Madson makes more sense to them than he would have last year.

Can one division have three playoff teams with the second WC?

I believe 1 division can have both WC team...

And the Jays were in on Bell so they'll likely be interested in Madson too.

Omar Minaya hired by the Padres to advise on "Latin American operations"...kinda like putting the fox back in the henhouse there, eh?

"Ryan, look I'm a little busy trying to sign Royalty to a Real contract. We screwed up this year - take the arb. We'll get em next year old boy. Tell Dolly I'm sorry."

It wouldn't be the first time that Boras screwed up on his brinksmanship.

Saw that Prince Fielder might only get around $20M per season. How stupid will that make Amaro's extension of Howard look?

Hypothetically speaking, if Madson did accept arbitration, he would almost certainly be very tradeable because of his one-year contract. Though, I must admit, it's pretty intriguing to think about a trio of Halladay, Lee & Hamels being backed up by a bullpen of Papelbon, Madson & Bastardo. Intriguing enough to justify the woeful lack of offense we'd have to endure if we invested that much money into pitching? I don't know the answer. But we do know that RAJ loves pitching.

***Saw that Prince Fielder might only get around $20M per season. How stupid will that make Amaro's extension of Howard look?***

Pretty dumb. It will look dumber when even Pujols barely makes $25 million per.

BAP- correction, RAJ loves spending money.

And to think Howard is the worst of the 3 and has a major injury heading into the season. Silly Amaro.

Hey, Howard is injured and has a terrible contract. I was unaware of either of these.

So, what you're saying is that giving a player a HUGE extension over 2 years prior to FA sometimes doesn't work out?


It is interesting to note that rumor about Miami making a low ball offer for Mad Dog and he doesn't want to even visit. It could be somebody has made a better offer and they are still considering or he is just looking for the exact perfect situation (location or winning record), perhaps Mrs. Mad Dog does have a big say in this? What city has the least hottest floosy baseball groupies?

@bap: Can we trade a player signed under arbitration? I thought there was a restriction that he was untradeable until June 1st or something like that. Is that changed under the new CBA?

Yes, with that pitching, we might have to suffer through another 100+ win season.

Say what you will about game 5, I'd take that pitching staff against any likely competition in a playoff series.

***What city has the least hottest floosy baseball groupies?***

I'm guessing that South Beach would have some pretty nice groupies...The Mrs almost certainly nixed that from the start.

Bed Beard- I know people think Howard's contract is terrible and know that he's injured, but the contract looks even worse with the rumor that Fielder will make less and Pujols won't even make that much more. Had Amaro not jumped the gun and blew his load prematurely, Howard's deal this offseason wouldn't be anywhere close to 5 yr/$125M.

Boras has definitely been known to string out the process so long that the would-be suitors just decide to spend their money elsewhere, & his client gets completely screwed. Just ask Kyle Lohse and Jarrod Washburn.

Still, it's only December 2 and free agents are not exactly being snapped up at lightning speed. It's WAY too early to posit a scenario where Madson falls back into our lap because Boras overplays his hand. If Madson is still on the market in a month, then maybe he could be forced to take a below-market deal. But at this point, he surely has some multi-year offers on the table. They may not be as much as he'd like, but they're surely preferable to the risk of accepting arbitration & getting a one-year deal.

If Madson accepts I hope the Phillies keep him. He'd be tradeable but teams would know the phillies are desperate to move him so teh return wouldn't be great.

GM-I get it. I hate the contract, then and now, but I'm at the point I hate hearing about it even more.

Nice to see Howard give $1mil+ to Philly schools today.

NEPP: Ah, I wasn't aware of that rule, if there is such a rule.

@bap, I vaguely recall it being an issue previously...part of why the Braves traded Milwood instead of Maddux and all that.

Sweet, which Philly school is getting a Venetian canal?!?

The Moyer to SD news is not confirmed. I heard it from a reliable source on the Broad Street Subway this morning. I'll see what my guy on the bus has to say later.

I didn't detect a limp from Howard flipping through the slides. He could be on the fast track for hitting season at the end of May.

Howard just gave 1 million plus to the Philadelphia school system?

I heard he also urinated in the ocean recently. Looking forward expectantly to the resultant tsunami in Japan.

Seriously though, good for Ryan to give money like that.

Is anyone else here with me on Cespedes? I watched a video on youtube the other week of him absolutely mashing the ball.

If the Phils are throwing money around...might as well give $50 mil to him over 8 years. He looks like a beast and Jerry Crasnick quoted a scout who compared him to Bo Jackson.

The outfield of Cespedes, Victorino, and Pence sounds good to me. I think Cespedes offense will make up for Wilson Valdez starting at SS.

Not to get too into it, but Ryan's donation won't close the education equalirty gap in America but if it does something for the lives of the kids directly impacted by it then it is a success. That's nothing to scoff at.

I'd love it if we got Cespedes...there are, unfortunately a good 18 other teams that are in on him.

Also, if we got him, Vic would likely be traded I would think.

I'm upset that Howard didn't give enough $ to fix the education system!

Nah. We hold vic for one year in center and then let him walk in free agency.

2012 is the "year" that they ahve to win. We have to upgrade in LF, not downgrade in CF.

I think this line-up would do:

1.victo (CF)
2.Yayberry (1b)
3.Utley (2b)
4.Pence (RF)
5.Cespedes (LF)
6.Polly (3b)
7.Chooch (C)
8.Valdez (SS)

1.) Victo (CF)
2.) Pence (RF)
3.) Utley (2b)
4.) Thome (1b, haha)
5.) Cespedes (LF)
6.) Polly (3b)
7.) Chooch (C)
8.) Valdez (SS)

And when Howard Returns:

1.) Victo (CF)
2.) Utley (2b)
3.) Pence (RF)
4.) Howard (1b)
5.) Cespedes (LF)
6.) Polly (3b)
7.) Chooch (C)
8.) Valdez (SS)

When Victo walks, you move Cespedes to CF, bring up the kid (DOMO) to play LF and use the money saved to sign a better SS.

Done and Done.

"He looks like a beast and Jerry Crasnick quoted a scout who compared him to Bo Jackson."

That would be a ringing endorsement if we were signing him to play running back. But, since we'd be signing him to play the outfield, it's not exactly the kind of comp that would induce me to pay $50M for a player I know nothing about.

Before he hurt his hip, Bo was a pretty good OF.

Cespedes = Dmitri Young in training.

Go for SOLER!!!!

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