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Monday, December 12, 2011


Phils are definitely over the top now. Let's call it an off season.

Fun fact: Gailey is a hometown kid and a product of West Chester University.

probably mention that Gailey is 25yr while he's posting those numbers in A-AA.

BOOM!I suspect the Jays will be out of the running for Prince Fielder now.

I'm guessing this is a sort of Rule V type pick up, without the roster implications. Phils will give this guy a shot in the spring, and if he doesn't look good, he's AAA fodder. They were probably going to non-tender Benny Frank, and he had little value at all.

Of course he'll hit 45 bombs in Toronto next season.

Good we make a trade for some stiff. And the juicers I ment brewers get ARAM.

seems like it was only yesterday when Jack was betting me how many HRs francisco would mash and awh was 'running his numbers' to compute that benfran was an average starting OF in the majors.

Pretty excited to see if the Phillies keep Kendrick. I shudder at the thought of what will happen to BL without Kendrick to gripe about each and every day.

I gather the rationale here was: a fringe prospect is still better than nothing -- which is exactly what we would have gotten if we non-tendered him.

Gailey is left-handed and he does have good minor league stats, including a low walk ratio, so it's not completely inconceivable that he could find his way onto the Phillies' roster at some point. On the other hand, he also struggled when he was bumped up to AA, so "at some point" is probably not this year.

I think it's a no brainer to keep Kendrick. He's been invaluable as a spot starter and bullpen innings eater.

BAP - Yeah. Gailey doesn't strike me as a guy who will factor on to the Phils' roster. He's strictly an organizational depth guy.

repost from last thread:

Lorecore: Last year is better indicator of where he's likely to be used. His Games Started were low, so he was used as more of a 6ht man long reliever, and he was at 118. Plus that's at 26, so he's now entering his prime. I think that's a better indicator of where he's at going forward. again, not saying he's roy halladay, but when you have 2, and possibly 3 next season, 20mm front line starters, you need a cheap backend. I think he fits that role well. I don't think they could do much better in FA. Maybe in a trade sure.

Benny Fran was going to be non-tendered, so this way the Phils at least got something out of it. Gailey may never even make it to Triple-A, but then again maybe he'll become a LOOGY down the road. He's got excellent control.

Cholly wanted BenFran gone over a year ago. Rube's finally seen enough.

Ben Francisco era is over.

and ironically enough, he had one of the only key hits of the playoffs. Funny how that works.

Watch Francisco go all Jose Bautista on the American League next year.

For being a guy who essentially was a throw-in from the Lee trade and was statistically an average offensive player (.259/.332/.420 with 17 HRs in 594 career ABs with the Phils; 101 OPS+), Francisco was generally a guy I thought got an undue share of criticism & even boos especially last year.

Yeah, he flopped as a starter in RF & his career numbers in the postseason in a Phils' uniform were pretty underwhelming but he what do people expect from what is basically an average 4th OF?

Now that the Brewers have signed A-Ram, I wonder where that leaves McGehee. He had a lousy 2011, but was one of the better offensive 3rd basemen in the league in 2010. Seems like a good bounce-back candidate.

MG: He was not thought to be a throw-in at the time. Sure, he wasn't the centerpiece, but that doesn't mean he was an afterthought. He wasn't.

mm: agreed on your post.

BTW: ARam is looking at 3 years at 11.5 per.

Cuddyer? I think the phils are going to need one more RH Bat - maybe this is good news (that BFran is gone) that will turn into even more good news ....

seems like a good deal for Brewers re: ARam.

Guess the Jays need a 4th outfielder.

Buddy - Sure he was. He was a salary dump by the Indians. They pretty much said at the time why Francisco was included.

I think the term "Throw in" gets abused a little bit. Francisco was probably included to get rid of salary implications, but I could see the Phils targeting him as a possible 4th OF with a little bit of upside, which it turns out he didn't really have. They took a worthy shot and got something out of him.

Pretty good deal by the that should really put a cap on what Rollins should expect.

lorecore, you are correct. I was running those number on Benny based on the 1,221 PA he had accumulated during the prior 4 seasons, 2007 - 2010.

So here's my question for you:

In 2012, do you think he'll perform closer to the .244/.340/.364 he put up over 293 PA in 2011, or do you think he'll perform closer to the .263/.329/.446 he put up between 2007 - 2010?

MG: The indians "salary dumped" Francisco while he was making the MLB minimum?

keith, if th ebashers here don't have Kendrick to pick on, they'll find someone else.

Personally, I think it will be Worley. If he comes in and wins a job in the rotation, and say he puts up an ERA of 3.75 - 4.00 (or even league average of slightly over 4.00) and tosses 150+ innings, he'll get ripped.

Why, because if his ERA is league average, probability tells me that approximately half of his starts will be worse than league average. Therefore, those get psychological satisfaction from criticism of players will have a field day complaining about his bad starts.

But, for abvious reasons, they won't tell you going into the season what they really expect from him.

Thats literally impossible. No matter what, a MLB team needs to have 25 players on their roster, so by trading Francisco's minimum salary, they were forced to pick up another player that could not make any less money than Francisco already was.

Amaro made a good move to get a right handed option of the bench when acquiring Lee, it wasn't just a dumb-luck throw in. It is a shame that he was unable to perform at the same level every day that he did in a backup role, but was worth the shot in my mind.

Gailey is a fringe prospect, and I'm sure RAJ shopped Benny.

That tells me that the best they could do was Gailey.

awh: you're asking me whether benfran has an OPS of above .740 or below...who knows, but that sounds like a decent over/under if one were to handicap it.

I don't know whether Benny will hit 245 or 263 in Toronto, but I don't know that it will matter much as a 4th or 5th outfielder. I'll try to forget his defense and his struggles with curves and off-speed pitches and try to remember the last half of 2009, his HR off Garcia, and those post-game interviews. Dude had a great smile...

Does Aramis Ramirez to the Brew Crew help or hurt the Rollins situation? On one hand, the Phils' supposed Plan B is gone. But on the other hand, the Brewers were a team that was "interested" in Rollins. With the Cards and Brewers (seemingly) out, does this help or hurt the Phils in negotiating with Rollins?


Jroll should only get 8 to 9 per that's about all. Rather give Aram his money then "my option". So glad his market crumbled and rube just sitting back in his recliner and giggling at his big board in his office. Nice if some American league team say tigers or someone give him one year. And we could pick up Bartlett from San d as a salary dump, and or a few fungo bats and bag of balls. He'll throw in GG as a throw in. Promote ryno and get him ready to take over. The 2012 free agent class will be loaded!!!! Look for phils to really turn it over And inject young blood into this team.

I liked Ben Francisco. Dude wasn't great but I would rather see him then John Bowker any day. The NLDS homer was unbelievable and he had another game winner or eventual game winner against the Cubs in extras a year or two ago. And he came over with Cliff Lee in a trade I will never forget.

Franc just looks like he is filling the traditional role of the mediocre Blue Jay fielder. There's always a few. Very Ledeeian.

Does this clear the way for the Phills to sign Michael Cuddyer? It seems that he would be great as a fill in for Howard until he comes back and then be slotted right into the OF.

I agree with MG that Ben Fran got ripped a bit more than he deserved, but there were 3 good reasons for it:

1. He was the Phillies 9th man in the 2008 WS vs. the Yankees and he was pitiful. His Yankee counterpart, Matsui, destroyed the Phillies.

2. He was advertised as at least league average defensiovely, but last season he was an embarrassment.

3. He was given every chance to win the RFR job but failed miserably.

MG is also correct about Gailey: he is minor league filler. Nothing more.

Its a huge plus for Gailey in that he can move back to PA permanently...of course, he has to live in Reading but its not all that bad.

The the upside I see here.

Why a pitcher ever throws Ben Francisco a fastball is more of a mystery than crop circles. Other than his ability to hit a fastball he is generally useless and will be roaming rf in Las Vegas or some other AAA affiliate within two years. At least the Phils got a warm body for him.

Sadly, what LHP are closer to the majors than Gailey right now in the entire organizaition?

Juan Perez
Joe Savery
maybe that Diekman ppl are hyped over?
The flier they took on Purcey(also from TOR)?

List isn't too long. If Zagurski can make it, than Gailey might too.

the Feierabend guy?

Sadly, what LHP are closer to the majors than Gailey right now in the entire organizaition?

Juan Perez
Joe Savery
maybe that Diekman ppl are hyped over?
The flier they took on Purcey(also from TOR)?

List isn't too long. If Zagurski can make it, than Gailey might too.

the Feierabend guy?

Carpenter outrighted by Toronto

Lorecore: Purcey and Valdes.

David Beckham a Phillies fan, or is my favorite team really just that trendy now? I don't know how I feel about that.

From RotoWorld:

Ryan Braun's testosterone levels during his failed drug test were "insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken," a source told Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News.

Maybe his wife should be MVP.

My hater cousin and wife sent me that pic saying Beckham and Howard are in the Shot Achilles Club.

Cody "The Solution" Ransom signed with the D'backs.

***Maybe his wife should be MVP.***

Dont worry, Aaron Rodgers will have an MVP soon enough...

J.P. Howell might get non-tendered.

Worth a wager? I say yes.

lorecore - Yeah and the Indians were concerned about what Francisco might get in arbitration if he remained the starter the rest of '09 in Cleveland.

He only started 19 games after he was acquired on July 30th and had only 97 more ABS. If Francisco had stayed with the Indians, he would remained the starter starting another 55-60 games and having another 225-250 ABs or so.

It would have been Francisco's 3rd straight year as basically a starter and he would have likely gotten a bigger bump than the $414k from $470k he got.

I know that saving maybe $500k or so doesn't sound like a lot but the Indians have basically paired their payroll dramatically that year from $81M in '09 to $61M in '10.

lorecore - I meant that Francisco might have gotten bumped up to $800-$900k instead of $470k he got last year.

clout - Yup. I am expect the Phils will sign at least one non-tendered veteran reliever (probably two) and JP Howell especially fits the bill as a LHP.

Proefrock hinted at that when he was on CSN the other week.

Had a hunch BenFran might be shipped out. Just glad they kept John Bowker on the 40 Man roster. Where would we be without him? ;-)

Well what can you say other than RAJ is liar BS. Thought he said he wanted Ben Ffran back yeah right.

Rowand signs a minor league deal with the Fish

In other Fish news: Heath Bell ate some Long John Silver's today.

McGehee,shake the tree,see what happens.Comeback player of the year?

RBill~ J-Roll isn't going anywhare. Where you he go? The best fit for him is here.

Also, Put me in the Cuddyer club. I think this has been brewing for a while. The Rockies are anking a big push for him, and that's no secret. I understand the Phils made him a 2-year offer which he didn't accept. Nor did he accept the Twins 3-year offer. Check this out:

"Free agent Michael Cuddyer's decision will be huge news and could happen soon, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Morosi adds that the decision will have a big impact on the Twins' and Rockies' plans."

What does anyone make of this? Cuddy is good friends and I believe rommates with the Twins. I was tols today that he's not real happy with the Twins clubhouse situation. Also Willingham's market depends on where Cuddyer signs & I understand it's Cleveland or the Twins.

To me all of this points to a POSSIBLE Cuddyer signing in Philly but I've been wrong before. He can play both OF corners & both Inf. corners. If they can get him for 3/27 then he's a good fit. And he wants to go to a team with a chance to win. Why would he go to the Rockies?

I meant to say friends and roommates with Thome while they were with the Twins. Sorry.

Playing in Colorado gives him guaranteed playing time and inflated offensive numbers that might just give him another deal in a few years.

clout, excellant pithy synopsis on Ben Fran. He was given a golden chance on a silver platter and it did not work out. He's gone. Good luck to him. Next!

Why would they want Cuddyer now? That means they will be overloaded with Outfielders. Doesnt make sense unless they trade one.

Cuddyer and Willingham are both in "sh8t or get off the pot" mode watching each other.

Toronto knows what's up. Francisco and Bautista are roughly the same height/weight, and had similar numbers before Bautista turned into Babe Ruth. Ben Fran hits 50HR next year.

NEPP~ Maybe so. But if he wants to win, he probably won't do it there.

Luis~ It makes sense if they're play him at 3b & 1b

I just think there's a "wow" move coming from RAJ. He knows he needs another RH bat. If he's gonna sign Spillborges, then why trade Benny?

Glad to see Francisco get a chance to start again. Regardless of the regular piss and vinegar Phillie fans who heaped abuse on Francisco he remained professional in his character and attitude.

kuvasv: benfran starting? Thames / Rasmus / Bautista will be TOR's starting OF.

Twins non-tendered Jose Mirajes - 27yr old lefty reliever with a .212/.276/.331 line vs LHB in 287 PA.

Last season was his worst, and still held lefties to a .698 OPS - sign me up.

I misread the team as the "Birds" (as in Cards); thinking that he would play where Berkman played last year, sorry, Blue Jays aren't Cardinals.

But get this, Bank of America is loaning the New York Mets $40,000,000 because the Mets owners have already tapped out their $25,000,000 loan from Major League baseball. First, BOA has been my bank for decades, and I surely don't want my money loaned to save the Mets. Second, I don't want my money loaned to deadbeats who can't even pay-off their old loans.

So you burned through $25 Million? Yeah, we'll give you another $40...can't imagine why BoA was bailed out a few years ago.

Bunch of geniuses there.

kuvasz: But perhaps the Mets ownership thinks that they can make more profit with a flop than with a hit!

More debt for the Mets? We haven't seen the security, guarantee and indemnity terms backing those loans. I doubt the fire sale value of hte franchise is the primary security for any new debt facilities.

I fully agree with the suggestion that Francisco was given ample opportunity to succeed in Philly and, he didn't. I also wish him well.

Steve Jeltz just hit a homer from both sides of the plate. Gets curtain call. Those were the days. ('89 classic on CSN)

Old school Pirates and Phillies game on CSN. Jeltz and Hayes both homored twice. Still feels like a loss.

Ha! scotch, nice

I can't watch those classic games. I remember when I watched them the first time and my stomach gets all tied up in knots all over again.

I know how 1980 turned out, and those games still give me ulcers.

I'm pretty sure that this is the game where one of the Pirates announcers said "if the Pirates lose this game, I'll walk back to Pittsburg" when the Pirates jumped out to a 10 run lead in, I believe, the first inning. The Phils won the game and later that year, he made good on his remark and walked from Philadelphia to Pittsburg and raised money for charity doing so.

Jim Rooker

Yep, that's him.

Somebody asked about Casey McGehee earlier when the Brewers signed Aramis Ramirez. They just traded him to the Pirates.

Mike G.: I was the one who asked that & I just saw the news at the same time as you. Kind of disappointing that the Phillies didn't get him, considering that the Pirates didn't have to give up a whole lot to land him.

I thought there was talk about using him at first when they couldn't sign Fielder.

Think Spillborghs is the Ben Fran II ? His only piss poor yr was last yr.. plus he's a huge upgrade defensively.. He'd probably cost about 2-2.5 mill.. Still holding out hope on Cuddyer, but I doubt he's coming here...

The Pirates-Phils game is from June 8, 1989. What instantly struck me just listening to the audio of the TV while I walk is just how much actual dead-air time there is and how you can actually hear a ton of the crown noise instead of the constant stream of verbage especially when TMac and Sarge are on.

It would have been nice to make a run at McGehee...oh well.

I remember watching that game in 1989 and thinking, "I wonder how this guy will affect our payroll in 6 years."

I think the biggest thing we lack these days is players of Jeltz's caliber. Given 9 Steve Jeltz, I think we'd be a 120 win team.

Hilarious. The Pirates broadcaster said 'I know the Phils are 11 GB but if they turn around the season they will really look on this night many times.'

This of a Phils' club that was 21-34, 11 GB already in early June, and filled with retreads galore.

I remember going to a lot of games that summer because my uncle still had season tickets at the time and his friends were almost always willing to give up an extra ticket or two or all of them as the summer wore on.

The "undue criticism" meme is a joke. The peanut gallery spent most of 2010 demanding that BenFran get more starts. It was hilarious - the guy clearly had the baseball instincts of a hamster but day after day dozens of people would demand that Cholly play him.

I remember reading about that game in a newspaper that I found wrapped in a rubber band on my neighbor's front porch several hours after a responsible neighbor would have retrieved it.

On a serious note- I think we are seeing what teams around the league really think about Prince Fielder as far as being a long term investment. I'm kind of surprised people aren't jumping in on him. I think whatever team gets him may be able to do so on a relatively short contract and he could be dangerous.

Honestly, if I were the Rangers- I would go hard after him and try to get him for maybe 3 or 4 years at something around 20 million plus a season. Then negotiate from there. I think he would instantly help that team survive the tide shifting the Angels way right now.

NEPP: I know people complained about Mini Mart incessantly but he was basically Jeltz who was the starting shortstop for this team for 4 freakin' seasons.

curt - Really? I only remember that there were some calls that Francisco would get some occasional starts vs LHP to keep his timing and given how Ibanez was mediocre vs LHP all year & it generally isn't smart to try to start a 38-year old LF everyday.

I do remember the horror that was Steve Jeltz.

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