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Thursday, November 10, 2011


Meet our new closer!

So he'll be coming over with a WS ring from STL?

Proven winner!!!

RV should try throwing right-handed against lefties.

He won't be hungry.

The thought of Valdez as the top shortstop on the Phillies depth chart sends chills down my spine.

He's around to throw BP to Ryan Howard and help him build confidence for hitting lefties.

Maybe the Phils are stacking up the Cubans to make Cespedes more at home because this guy kinda sucks.

He is a 'Bizarro' LOOGY?

I threw up in my mouth with that Wilson Valdez being atop the SS depth chart news. Yuck.

completely off topic, but a friend of mine suggested something about Dom Brown recently.

a full year a AAA may do him quite a lot of good. in AA, there's a bunch of really good 'stuff' pitchers, who have problems with command. in AAA, you get more veteran types without the 'stuff' but with better command.

his theory is that those AAA pitchers would likely attack Brown's weaknesses (up in on the hands) with more frequency b/c of their accuracy, but less velocity or movement than you'd see in MLB. this could be a perfect place for Dom to work on his flaws, change his stroke gradually, and become more MLB ready. when he sees those pitches once he's back up, he'll have had the necessary repetions in game situation and the confidence b/c of improved mechanics to be a much better hitter.


Just a winner interviewing with another winner...nothing to say at all on that one, Conshy.

I guess I feel like I did when the Phils picked up Reyes last year although Valdes is just a non-spring invitee.

When Dave Duncan doesn't think much of a reliever despite it being an area the Cards really needed help all year until they got Rhodes that he is probably worth passing on.

Savery has to be thinking that if this is the type of competition he will face in spring training that he has a very good legit chance to make the opening day roster if he has a decent spring.


bowlcut: at least they didn't bring Baez back.

Valdes strikes me as the kind of guy who could follow in the foot steps of guys like Scott Mathieson, Mike Koplove, Brian Gordon, and Jason Grilli. Which is to say . . . someone who shows up in spring training, pitches 4 or 5 good innings of relief, get assigned to AAA sometime in February, proceeds to put up competent numbers at AAA, and develops a cult following of Beerleaguers who are adamant that he should be called up to the major league team.

But I admit, my prediction is a bit of a reach. There's nothing in his history which suggests he's even good enough to attain the cult status which I envision for him.

Saw this on the sidebar from Jason Stark:
" A stunning tidbit in 2012 Bill James Handbook: What was the worst HR park in 2011 for RH hitters in the National League? Citizens Bank Park! "

bap - Jason Grilli in 2011:

32 2/3 IP, 2-1, 2.48 ERA (156+ ERA), 1.20 WHIP, 10.2 K/9, 4.1 BB, .199 BAA

He pitched quite well for the Pirates in the 2nd half. Certainly was much better than the guys in the backend of the Phils' pen including the likes of Herndon, Stutes, or Schwimmer.

According to Jayson Stark- the Phillies have also checked in on Jason Kubel and Grady Sizemore.

Sizemore would be an interesting signing depending on what you give him. Through his age 25 season he looked like he was progressing into a pretty big superstar for the Indians. That year he hit 33 home runs, stole 38 bases, and had an OPS+ of 133. The following year he injured his groin in spring training and tried to play through it but he declined heavily that year. He also had surgery on his elbow and groin in September of that year.

Then in 2010 he had microfracture surgery as his knee was clearly bothering him. Last year he came back, played for a while then missed time with a knee contusion and then a second sports hernia surgery.

it'll be interesting to see what he gets contract wise. He clearly is a talented player when healthy, and even last year in 71 games (playing banged up) he put up an OPS+ of 95. If he can stay healthy doesn't turn 30 until August. Maybe a move to left might be good for him since he would have less ground to cover.

BAP, that phenomenon goes back further than those you mention. I recall days where BL was wrought with "Kris Benson to the rescue" commentary. Though, truth be told, I think if we're erecting a statue to this line of thinking, it has to be in the mold of Scott Mathieson. Let's call it the "Mathieson mantra."

You're right though, this dude is essentially in that same vein.

WP: Excellent example. I was here for the Kris Benson to the rescue commentary. I remember it well.

MG: Yeah, Grilli was actually pretty decent last year & probably would have been better than Herndon, Scwhimer, etc. Tyler Walker was another one who got tons of BL love while he was in AAA & actually pitched pretty competently once he got called up. So, sometimes the cult following turns out to be reasonably justified. I was just commenting on the phenomenon, not so much the results -- although, more often than not, the results are disastrous.

Willard: I was on the "Get Anna Benson to Philly" bandwagon back in the day, even if it meant that the team had to call up Kris.

Sadly, we never really did get to exploit the Anna Benson train wreck to the extent I was hoping. She was like the precursor to the Kardashians.

I'm sure she's not at all washed up, downtrodden and living in a trailer park somewhere.

From Big Truck to the RV, these are your 2012 Phillies!

It's beginning to sound like Madson is a no-go.

That's too bad. I'd love to see Madson back at around 3/30 with an option year. I think he's worth it. Of course, I'd take him for less if he's willing.

Sizemore is a talented player, but he's been a walking wounded guy for two seasons and he's saying he only wants to play centerfield. Seems to me he should welcome an easier defensive position at this point.

That Amaro interview proves that he is great at saying a lot words that amount to jack squat.

The only worthwhile quote in there is that they were close with Madson at one point, and Montgomery didn't nix the deal. I guess it's also interesting that he entertains the possibility of starting Galvis if they don't re-sign Jimmy, but I think that's obviously a load of crap.

Sizemore would be a great "buy low" move if he was given a cheap 1 year deal.

Saying he'd start Galvis is fantastic, from a purely negotiation standpoint. Threatening to go "new school" may be enough to have Jimmy come around in the disussions - that is, if he was truly naive enough to believe it....

Hmmm...we finally sign a LOOGY and he turns out to be a ROOGY.

Phils FO are good at some kinds of signings, but kinda stink at RPs and UTs.

As if this week hasn't been chaotic and tumultuous enough, the biggest news story of the week is breaking: Pat Burrell may be retiring!!

That's it, I officially have nothing left, emotionally.

Hugh: You must be overjoyed with the thought of getting to watch the .230-hitting Rod everyday next season. And for only $4MM, with a $3.5MM option!

I still can play LF better than Dom Brown.

I can play LF better than Dom Brown.

This off-season there's a lot of talk about the need to improve the offense. Apparently lost in the discussion are the facts that the Phils were the best team in the NL, maybe in all of baseball, and that the Phils were good primarily because of the starting rotation.

At this very moment, the Phils' rotation for 2012 is weaker than the rotation that led the team to 102 wins, and something needs to be done to bolster the rotation to ensure the team's supremacy in 2012. I am not confident in a back-of-the-rotation of Blanton and Worley, with Kendrick filling in as needed. I am not confident that Worley will sustain his good performance.

There are three free-agent pitchers who could give the Phils a needed boost: Buehrle, C.J. Wilson, and Oswalt. Any of the three would be acceptable, but, if he can give the Phils 175 innings or more, I prefer Oswalt. Oswalt will be cheaper than the other two, and the commitment will be shorter. Oswalt would serve as a good bridge to 2014, when Trevor May could be ready to assume a place in the rotation.

Instead of spending $10 million or so on the rotation, though, the talk is that it would be better to spend the $10 million bolstering the offense, while ignoring the fact that the rotation would be weaker. And the talk is to spend that money on a slightly above average hitter like the defensively challenged Cuddyer on a three-year contract.

The Phils' offense was good enough last season for the Phils to win 102 games, and, as Fatalotti and others pointed out, the Phils' offense was the best in the NL once Utley returned and Pence was added.

The biggest offensive deficit the Phils must overcome in 2012 is the loss of Howard, who may not contribute much offensively next season. The Phils need someone to fill in for Howard next year. The Phils don't need someone like Cuddyer, who's not that good to begin with and who would require a three-year commitment.

You want 30 more innings out of Roy this year over last years total? Did he get a back transplant during October?

derek: Oswalt was not a major reason why we won 102 games last year. He made only 23 starts, averaged barely 6 innings per start, and won just 9 games. The Phillies, as a team, were 11-12 in games that he started. When he went on the DL for 6 weeks, his replacement made 7 starts, won 5 of them, and pitched to a far better ERA.

It's certainly possible that Oswalt could bounce back and have a better 2012 season. But if you're using last year as your template for how to win 102 games, you sure don't need Mark Buehrle or C.J. Wilson to give us what Oswalt gave us last year. Joe Blanton or Kyle Kendrick should do fine.

I thought derek's post was ironic.

Maybe I was wrong. other than mentioning Fatalotti (which inevitably means he will come back now since I'm sure his buzzer is alerting him his name was mentioned) I laughed throughout the post.

Buehrle, C.J. Wilson, or Oswalt pitching 175 or more innings would each contribute more than Oswalt did in 2011. And they each would contribute more than adding a bat like Cuddyer in 2012.

There was a similar discussion last year about whether the addition of Cliff Lee would offset the loss of Jayson Werth. We know how that turned out. And that's not just based on Werth's poor 2011 season.

Amaro's plan to build a dominant rotation has proven to be a winner and should be continued. The fact that Oswalt was not up to par in 2011 is not an indictment of the plan. If the Phils believe that Oswalt's back may not improve and that he will be no better than he was in 2011, then they should turn to Buehrle or Wilson. But to be confident that Halladay, Lee, Hamels and Worley will be as healthy and as effective in 2012 as they were in 2011 and to conclude then that $10 million is better spent on Cuddyer than on another good starter shows poor judgment.

Another guy who the Phil's think has an upside and we can fix his pitching problems. Hasnt happened yet. Why even bother with these types especially since many of our minor league talents are on the verge of possibly breaking in to the MLB level.

derek: I sort of get your point. But when you've already got 3 aces, plus 3 other pitchers who are all league average (maybe better in Worley's case), I'd say that yet another investment in starting pitching would be an investment with diminishing returns.

I also don't buy the argument that our offense was fine once Utley came back. We ended up 7th in the league in runs scored. Yes, our offense was terrible before Utley came back & near the league lead in runs after his return. But considering that Utley himself wasn't very good, I tend to think that split is a coincidence -- kind of like our strong record in Brian Schneider's starts. Obviously, our lineup is better with Chase Utley in it than it is with Wilson Valdez in it. But it's still pretty mediocre.

Luis: Because after the 2 or 3 legitimate bullpen prospects who might be on our AAA roster, you still have about 4 or 5 bullpen spots to fill at LV, and these are the kind of guys who are floating around to fill them. About 90% of AAA is comprised of guys like Raul Valdes. It is not some phenomenon that is unique to the Phillies.

Maybe but their main intent with this guy is to see if they can fix his problems. I wouldnt say 90%.

BAP - Let me put things a little differently.

Let's assume that Oswalt is washed up and that the Phillies sign Buehrle.

Let's also assume the Phils re-sign Madson and Rollins.

To complete the 2012 roster, say the Phils sign Derrek Lee to play first until Howard returns and pick up a versatile utility guy to fill in for Polanco, Rollins and Utley. Some combination of Mayberry and Brown would play LF.

How do you think the Phillies' team I just described would do in 2012?

I seriously doubt the money's there to sign Buerhle, Rollins, Madson, ahigh quality utility guy, fill out the bullpen, and re-sign Hamels, so it really doesn't matter how "that team" would do in 2012.

Signing another #2 SP would be a huge waste of resources at this point...Buerhle's not an ace, but I'd guess is likely to command ~18 mil per. How could anyone justify that kind of investment for this team's #4 starter? That's just dumb.

Chris - If you take the trouble to price out the roster I described, including giving Hamels and Pence extensions, man-by-man for all 25 guys, the total payroll may not be as high as you think. I can help you tinker with the numbers to get the payroll down even lower than your first shot.

Regarding wasting resources, what is your goal? My goal would be to field another winner and to stay within budget. And isn't the signing of Cuddyer, a ho-hum player, to a three-year $30 million contract such a waste of resources?

I think the Phillies need to signa reliable veteran for the 9th... but not for 4 years and $44 million. Yikes...

While I disagree with the specifics of derek's idea (I do not agree that Cuddyer would be a waste of a signing, and I don't want Oswalt back at the salary he would command), I think there is plenty of merit to the idea of adding a starting pitcher, especially if you're of the belief that Worley's production will fall off of a cliff.

Oswalt disappointed last year, but Worley matched and even exceeded the results we were expecting from Oswalt last year, so we essentially did have four aces and it netted 102 wins. Kyle Kendrick also had a career year as a fifth starter. They were the best team in the league because 4 out of 5 nights, they had a slight-to-significant starting pitching advantage.

If you believe Worley and Joe Blanton, who has not pitched well in over two seasons, will match what we got out of the #4 and #5 spots this year, then I can see where you'd disagree with derek. But I have a hard time seeing that happening.

I'm also not on the bandwagon of those like Jack who think the offense is going to completely fall off a cliff next year, with Pence for a full year, Utley (hopefully) for a full year, and the possible addition of a LF that will produce more than Ibanez (Cuddyer). How long Howard will be out is the key, but Jack is on record as saying his production won't be hard to replace, so I guess we can just stick Mayberry at first and not worry about it.

What it comes down to is if you think there is where you think the bigger impact can be made: signing a fourth starter (such as Buehrle) that will again give us an advantage over almost every other team's fourth starter in the league, or signing some mystery bat that will magically transform the offense into the best in the league. I think signing someone like Buehrle would have more of an impact.

The Phils currently have 114.15 mil committed to 10 players, including the Thome signing. If you bring back Rollins (say 12mil) and Madson (11) that puts you at 137 for 12 players. Add in an extension for Hamels (20) and Pence (15) and you are at 172.15. Kendrick and Valdez are both due Arbitration raises, so let's say they cost 5 mil combined. Mayberry, Brown, Stutes, and Bastardo should all come in at the minimum, another 2 mil, roughly. Add in a 1 year deal for Derrek Lee at ~6 mil, ~ 2.5 mil for a high-quality utility player, and then ~18 mil for Buehrle. That leaves you at over 205 mil for 22 players, I'm assuming 3 minimum-type BP pitchers.

Obviously you can finesse the numbers to make this year's total less, but eventually those numbers catch up to you. Even if you could get the total down to 190 mil for this season, there's still no way the owners would agree to that type of payroll.

In my heart, I believe Rube will ultimately sign some mediocre middle of the road infielder or lower cost "lottery ticket" type OF (if they chose to put RFD at 1st) to cover the time Ryan is out. My concern after that is when Howard comes back and hits .178 for the next two months and has a lost season.
I just can't wait until he brings back Ibanez at 2 mil and everybody freaks out.

the idea of signing another very good starter is assinine. while i agree with Iceman that Worley and Kendrick are likely to regress, that is no reason not to trot them out there. Plus Kendrick, if back, would still be the 6th starter. We are both deep and top heavy in starting pitching, so adding another big time arm would indeed be a huge waste of resources.

not to mention, that 4th arm is nearly useless in the postseason. just a stupid stupid stupid idea.

Chris - Your initial total is $205 million for 23 players (not 22) plus another $1.5 million for three BP pitchers making the minimum. That's $206.5 million for 26 players.

My initial total is $188 million for 26 players (one extra player because Howard will be on the DL. The differences are -
1. My starting point for the commitments to 10 players plus the buy-outs of $3.5 million for Lidge and Oswalt is $111.75 million ($2.4 million lower than yours);
2. You have $58 million for Rollins, Madson, Hamels and Pence; I think you are much too high on the last two players; the total for these four in 2012 should be more like $46 million ($12 million lower);
3. If you sign Buehrle and you already have Blanton and Worley, you drop Kendrick; I assume $800,000 for Valdez ($4.2 million lower);
4. Mayberry, Brown, Stutes, and Bastardo - $2 million (same)
5. Derrek Lee - $6 million (same);
6. High-quality utility player - $2.5 million (same);
7. I have Buehrle at $16 million ($2 million lower);
8. Three BP pitchers - $1.5 million (same); and
9. One back-up catcher - $1.5 million ($1.5 million higher).

I have already built in some back-loading in the new contracts (For example, I assume an AAV of $18 million on Hamels' contract, but I assume he will only be paid $14 million in 2012). Additional back-loading or even deferred compensation paid beyond the length of the contract easily can reduce the 2012 payroll by $10 million.

One thing to remember is that Blanton and Contreras will be off the books in 2013. On the other hand, both Lee and Victorino get bumps in 2013. This nets out to a reduction of $5 million in 2013.

Another factor to consider is that the luxury tax threshold in 2012 should be at least $185 million.

Welcome Jamey Carroll!

conshy: I realize most people will think it's "assinine" to add another SP, but the fallacy that your fourth stater doesn't matter in the playoffs was again disproven this year when Oswalt got hit around. So you can't use that as an argument.

It's also a fallacy that we're "deep" with starting pitching. We've got three bonafide aces, Joe Blanton (who hasn't pitched well since 2009) and Vance Worley, who almost everyone agrees would be lucky to even come close to what he did in 2011 next season. We have a good swingman in Kyle Kendrick. After that...?

I guess I'm just wondering who this magical bat is that's going to transform the offense that will already benefit from the addition of Pence (and Utley) for a full season, and the departure of Ibanez, many would argue, is addition by subtraction, especially if they sign someone like Cuddyer. Again, missing Howard will hurt, and I think they have yet to account for making up that production while he's gone. But outside of that, who is going to magically transform this offense into a juggernaut?

This team won 102 games by having a starting pitching advantage (if you include Worley as the fourth ace) roughly 80% of the time in 2011. In my opinion, it would be a better investment of resources to make sure you have that advantage again instead of throwing money at some average-to-above-average bats and hope they magically turn the offense into a powerhouse.

derek: I'll say around 96 wins with that roster. But -- and here's the big caveat -- I'd say around 94 wins with that same roster, minus Mark Buehrle. That's why I say that adding a guy like Buehrle would be an acquisition with diminishing returns.

BAP- Buehrle's average WAR the last 5 seasons is 3.75.

If I've missed this discussion, I apologize, but I was just wondering why I've heard no talk about Josh Willingham.. I know he's a total defensive liability, but 29 HR's in Oakland is fairly prodigious. Then, as Grandpa said, bring on Jamey Carroll to spell middle IFers and Madson/Papelbon and I think the off-season would be fine.. Any thoughts?

Iceman: What's his WAB: wins above Blanton? Because he wouldn't be replacing a replacement level pitcher; he'd be replacing Blanton. And exactly what do you do with Blanton and his $8.5M salary if we were to sign Buehrle? If I know Cholly, the 5th starter's job would be Blanton's to lose, simply because he's a veteran. Worley, the better pitcher, would be relegated to the bullpen. If that's how it turned out, we'd be improving the 4th starter's spot at the expense of the 5th starter's spot.

One other thing.. If the Phils can re-sign J-Roll with the additions I mentioned above, great..If not, Barmes as a FA is OK, but maybe a trade for DET Ramon Santiago or (GULP)Jason Donald would be a bridge to a better crop of FA/trades in 2013-14-15..

According to MLBTR, Jamey Carroll, who will turn 38 before opening day, is nearing a "multi-year deal" with some unknown team.

Now let's see. Which major league team needs a shortstop & has a history of giving multi-year deals to preposterously old players? I can't think of anyone . . .

The Phillies offense finished 7th in runs scored for two reasons:

1. Lots of injuries to key hitters.

2. They were in the top 5 when they clinched on 9/16 and fell 2 notches in the final 2 weeks of the season when they rested most of the everyday players.

Worth noting: The difference between 5th and 7th was 8 runs. It's reasonable to think they would've scored an additional 8 or more runs in the final 2 weeks had they not rested the regulars.

Robby J: This will be Jamey Carroll's age 38 season.

Reading between the liens on MLB Trade Rumors, it seems to be the Blue Jays that are signing Carroll, not the Phillies. He'd be a good acquisition for us, for sure--insurance against the loss of J-Roll, and a huge upgrade over Valdez and Co. if Rollins stays--but I don't think Amaro will try to fix the shortstop position until Rollins has left, Galvis has proved inadequate, and Valdez has proven unable to play every day--of course, by then Barmes, Furcal, Carroll, and other FA's will signed, and Rube will have to trade for one. In other words, it'll be a replay of last season's right field situation.

I wouldn't automatically assume the Phillies are the mystery team except for the fact Rube wears a cape and mask in his office and that he has a red glowing phone on his desk.

Barmes can play 2B-SS-3B and is above average at each.

He's certainly looking for an everyday job, but if he doesn't get one, this would be a pretty good signing even before Rube knows if he can keep J-Roll. It would be a HUGE upgrade over both Mini-Mart and Valdez.

clout-- I said Carroll could "spell" middle IF not start him.. As I said.. Barmes, perhaps Santiago, or Donald are stopgap options

Robby J: The scouting reports on Donald were that he didn't have the range to be an everyday MLB SS, but his bat looked good enough to start at 2B. That's probably why the Phils traded him.

We now have enough PT to begin to make some tentative early judgments and this is what we see at age 27: A slash line of .273/.328/.386 in 468 PAs and a UZR of -10.9 in 63 games at SS.

I think the slash line will improve. While there's not nearly enough PT for the UZR to have much meaning, it doesn't surprise me a bit and I suspect it will remain in negative territory as he amasses more PT.

The "mystery team" for Carroll could be the Braves if they trade Prado.. Also, Josh Willing ham at 3 yrs 25-30 mill sound ridiculous?

Clout, I've long maintained Barmes is the best non-Rollins option for the Phils, and that he'd be a valuable player even if Jimmy resigns. However, the fact that he is a valuable player probably means another team will snap him up before Amaro begins to address the shortstop situation (I've heard the Rockies, Giants, and Twins all linked to Barmes so far). One of the irritating things about Amaro is that he doesn't seem to address needs until they become blatantly obvious weaknesses--as in the need for a right-handed hitter in 2011.

"I've long maintained Barmes is the best non-Rollins option for the Phils."

Barmes is an absolutely wretched offensive player. Among free agents, Furcal is the best non-Rollins, non-Reyes option for the Phillies. A better option would be a trade.

AT: I totally agree.

Per Jayson Stark:

The Philadelphia Phillies continued to show "serious" interest in longtime Boston Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon on Friday, as momentum toward a deal to bring back their incumbent closer, Ryan Madson, was disintegrating.

One source told that there was "serious interest on both sides" in a deal that would bring Papelbon to Philadelphia.

Meanwhile, another source said he now believes that an agreement with Madson, which had seemed close earlier in the week, was unlikely to happen at all.

I'd rather have Madson's changeup than Papelbon's fastball.

BAP - Maicer Izturis is somebody to consider in a trade. He has played 1300 innings at SS, 1800 innings at 2B and 2000 innings at 3B. He has a good glove and is much better offensively than Barmes, whose OPS away from home (mostly Coors Field) is a Valdez-like .637.

Derek-- Izturis has never played more than 122 games in a season cuz he's injury-prone.. Before 2011 he had played 254 out of a possible 486 previous games from 2008-2010. He's also a bit of an attitude problem.. He ripped Angels fans calling them "ignorant" in April of 2011 for calling him non-durable.. Seems spot-on to me..

Robby - I was thinking about Izturis as a utility guy for the Phils. Has he ever been a regular?

I think he has been on the DL five times in the last six years. I was not aware of his attitude problem.

Itzuris full quote from April 24, 2011: "Those people (Angels fans) are ignorant and don't know the game." At the time of the remark, he was day-to-day with a hamstring strain LOL Yes, he's a fragile utility player who makes 3.26 million/yr..

Maybe the Blue Jays will out-bid us for Carroll as payback for Kyle Drabek.

I am waiting to see the "Papelbon is real estate shopping in Delaware County" rumors.

Salisbury says that it's a done deal for Papelbon.

JSalisburyCSN Jim Salisbury

The Phils and Papelbon have reached agreement sources tell Pending physical.

Salisbury reports the Phillies are about to sign Papelbon.

And make jokes if you like, but Salisbury is one of the more trustworthy reporters to follow for this stuff. Will be interesting to see what the deal is.

This invariably means that Madson is gone and his signing elsewhere will net us two picks and have us give up one. This may turn into a nice net positive.

ugh, i hope they didnt go over 4/44mil

Stark is estimating 4 yrs, 52 million according to 97.5 ESPN.

Rumor I heard was 4/52 for this even less than Madson's supposed deal. Spending this kind of money on a closer almost never works out. I suppose having no vesting option is a bonus, at least.

I think it goes without saying what I think of this deal, considering I didn't like the proposed Madson deal, and I was on record as liking Madson better than Papelbon, all things being equal.

Salisbury has now added this:

Sources say Papelbon deal is four years and approaches $50 million, pending physical

If we put the rumors together it means the Pils nixed 4 yrs of Madson at 44 mil for 4 years of Papelbon at 52 mil.

If that's all true it makes no sense to me.

Wow. Amaro just gets dumber and dumber. This is an insane contract. And the more we have to watch Papelbon and his theatrical nonsense, the more we will grow to dislike him.

Frankly, I don't want anyone from that dysfunctional mess of a clubhouse on the Phillies. But this guy has me seriously thinking about not bothering watching the team anymore. I've been a fan since 1964, but I think I've just about had it with this GM.

Madson is a better pitcher than Papelbon. We are going to long for the days when Madson was getting 4/44 very shortly.

I'm also on record as rather having Madson than Papelbon.

That said, it's worth looking at the career stats:

ERA+ 197 WHIP 1.018 H/9 6.8 HR/9 0.6 BB/9 2.4 K/9 10.7

ERA+ 123 WHIP 1.294 H/9 8.9 HR/9 0.9 BB/9 2.7 K/9 7.8

Even pulling out Madson's 17 starts, it's still a pretty wide gap.

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