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Friday, November 11, 2011

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Rumor I heard was 4/52 for Papelbon...like this even less than Madson's supposed deal. Spending this kind of money on a closer almost never works out. I suppose having no vesting option is a bonus, at least.

The Phillies raised my season plan prices -- again -- for this?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good this drama is over. One spot filled on to next item on list

If it is for more than the reported Madson deal I'll be upset. I only liked the idea of Papelbon if it was for three years. Four is too many!

Logic, please.

Do we really like this deal? It seems to me that Madson has gotten progressively better the past few years. Where as Papelbon seems to be on the decline, almost Lidge-like with his declining velocity. They seem to be going in opposite directions career-wise. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't know how anyone could be unhappy to sign a guy who is an absolutely elite closer. But, if it's really 4 years, $52M, that is a steep price.

bap: Because the sentence you just wrote could have easily applied to Brad Lidge, circa Summer 2008. That's why.

The whole theory of "Closers" is suspect to begin with. What a terrible signing. Replace the "hick" with "douchebag" & it's Billy Wagner all over again. r00b is out of his arrogant mind.

Boras irked Monty?

Papelbon > Madson...he's younger, has a much longer track record of success, and judging by his peripherals he ha a better season than Madson last year (better k/9 + BB/9, fewer hits allowed in more IP).

Chris in VT: Agreed.

If we're going to give $12m/year to some RP, glad it's Papelbon (as much as I like Madson)

Jack: If your point is that huge investments for a closer are rarely good ideas, then I would agree. Nonetheless, I had resigned myself to the fact that the Phillies were going to spend big money on a closer -- and I can kind of understand their thinking, since they're a team built on pitching & it is absolutely galling to lose a game in the 9th inning after taking a lead into that inning. So, while I'm not thrilled with spending $10M+ per year on a closer, I'm at least pleased that they got a good one.

Chris, he's 3 months younger.

Chris: The age thing is a non-issue. Papelbon is less than 3 mos. younger than Madson.

printing money and spending money....that's what the Phillies do! If I read this in 1999, I would not have been amused...but it's the truth and I love it. #PayJimmy

This all came down to Madson's wife hating the town (sarcasm).

Not a fan of this move especially for the reported price tag..$50M for a closer is awful. Yes we needed a closer but closer wasn't necessarily a weakness. Yeah I know some fans do not think highly of our young BP arms & deservedly so to some extent. But this $50M dollars just leaves a bad taste in my mouth...it has all the markings of another disastrous Amaro signing. I like Amaro and the trades that he's made. But his FA signing and contract extensions have left a lot to be desired. Let us all bow our heads and pray that this contract extension does not come back to haunt Phils.

Everyone does remember that 2 of the past 3 Red Sox seasons ended w/ Papelbon blowing a Save & taking a Loss, right?

If we put the rumors together it means the Phils nixed 4 yrs of Madson at 44 mil for 4 years of Papelbon at 52 mil.

If that's all true it makes no sense to me

Just need to trade for Swisher and the Wet-Dry debate can continue on the field.

Dickie,
I had reservations about that happening months ago. Razor debates tear a clubhouse apart.

Papelbon a more proven closer than Madson, but the reported money being paid on this deal is unbelievable. I agree with a lot of other posters here. Three years would have been better. Some have said Papelbon may be somewhat on the decline. Does switching over to the National League make a difference?

Jack: Lidge "circa summer of 2008" was still not even close to Papelbon as far as "elite closers" go. So that analogy doesn't really work.

Another poster referred to him as a "douchebag." How about we don't just rely on the image presented to us by the national media? I've watched a lot of Red Sox games and I have friends in that area and of the team in general. They've said he is a competitive guy and that gets mixed in with a bad temperament sometimes. The "douchiest" thing he does is that he can be very slow to the plate at times.

On the deal itself. I don't know what to think. People were losing their minds over 4 years/44 million for Madson so this will not help that. Three years may have been better but again, with free agency, sometimes you have to go an extra year or give more money to get the guy you want. The one positive to the deal for me is that we will net a pick when Madson signs elsewhere. So maybe in 2019 there is some guy burning through the farm system ready to come help.

Good deal! We were paying close to this for Lidge!!

Papelbon is in decline? He had an 8.7 K/BB rate last year...

Don't the Phillies lose a pick for signing Papelbon, thereby making the pick they would get for Madson a wash?

lurker: Madson is a Type A free agent. When you offer them arbitration and they sign elsewhere you get 2 picks. The other team's first round pick, and an additional sandwich round pick.

TTI: Plus, the first-round pick the Phils get back for Madson will inevitably be better than the first-round pick we gave up for Paps, considering the Phils had the best record in baseball last season and thus pick last in the first round.

Now that we're splitting hairs, Truth Injection, I might maintain that the douchiest thing the guy has done was the highly suspect Riverdance in tights thing..on the freakin' field. I don't like the Red Sox and didn't like Papelsmear before that and it was still uncomfortable to watch.

TI: I assume Papelbon is also a Type A; so do you (or anyone) know why the BoSox didn't offer him arbitration?

I bame NEPP for talking Middleton out of the Madson deal and sticking us with this one.

Jack: not true, first 15 picks are protected. Also we could easily get back a 2nd round pick or something if the other team also signs another player w/higher ranking than Madson.

People keep saying he is younger its like by 89 days or some thing that a non factor really. The deal is too long. They should of just took a shot with Braxton and Bastardo.

I'm also on record as rather having Madson than Papelbon.

That said, it's worth looking at the career stats:

Papelbon:
ERA+ 197 WHIP 1.018 H/9 6.8 HR/9 0.6 BB/9 2.4 K/9 10.7

Madson:
ERA+ 123 WHIP 1.294 H/9 8.9 HR/9 0.9 BB/9 2.7 K/9 7.8

Even pulling out Madson's 17 starts, it's still a pretty wide gap.

Jack: "bap: Because the sentence you just wrote could have easily applied to Brad Lidge, circa Summer 2008. That's why."

Well, if Papelbon had lost his closer job 2 times in the previous 3 years and had ERA+ of 185, 85 and 133 instead of 254, 112 and 145, then yes, you're exactly right and BAP is wrong.

Unless we get some credible hitting signed; its a moot point.

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