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Monday, October 03, 2011


Two near HRs by Rollins. Pujols game-winning hit barely over the glove of Rollins who was playing up because Vic, after overruning the ball in CF, failed to pick up the ball in time to keep the runner from getting to third base. Molina's infield single off of Rollins' glove.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Nothing to do but look forward to the rest of the series. A better ballclub with better pitchers going in each remaining game. I'll take my chances.

There were 3 reasons the Phils lost, Clifton, Phifer, and Lee.
On to Game 3.

I hate to see LaRussa rewarded for the decisions he made.

limoguy, especially bad ones.

Lee is reportedly 94-1 in games when he has been given a lead of four or more runs. After tonight, he is 94-2. The goat horns in this loss go squarely on the head of Cliff Lee. For whatever reason, he didn't bring anything even close to his "A" game and the team suffered for it.

A few thoughts:

1) I thought Jerry Meals' strike zone was fine tonight.
2) I thought it was very unprofessional of La Russa to complain about the umpiring on-air during the game.
3) I thought Jay's collision with Ruiz was a clean play.
4) I thought La Russa's bullpen management tonight, while annoying, was perfect.
5) I do not understand the despair in some of the posts. Cardinals got just about every break tonight (including dunking in 12 out of 20 batted balls for hits off of Lee) and won by a run. Phillies will have the pitching advantage in every game for the rest of the series, including Hamels vs. Garcia in Game 3.

Being very sicker i only watched until the 3rd or 4th when they got a 4 run lead. I assumed a fore gone conclusion. Wow, what a rough morning shock. That had to be one of the worst philadelphia sports sundays i have had to go through. Hopefully the luck swings back our way in game 3.

@tim from williamsport. Got off a plane from Ireland yesterday morning. Watched game 1 from my hotel room before a 12:45 a.m. EST wake up call and a seven and a half hour flight. Barely made it through the first inning last night, but remember how good I felt drifting off with a comfy lead and Lee on the mound.

It's one game and while it is one game that we clearly should have won, everyone needs to do something on here they largely seem incapable of: take a deep freaking breath. Hamels and this team will deliver tomorrow.

And I agree with others about LaRussa getting lauded for his questionable moves. I think the guy is complete tool and it while I didn't hear it, if he criticizes the umps on the air, shouldn't he get fined for that?

@pblunts: I was also referring to the debacle that was the Eagles game along with the Phils game but I hear you. I still think the Phils are going to win this series just a very unfortunate turn of events on what seemed like a lock to go up 2-0 and cruise to a NLDS sweep. To be able to get 4 runs off of Carpenter and then have the Cards putrid pen for the rest of the game I really felt good going to bed about that 4-0 lead. But that's baseball. Let's go to St. Louis and take the series lead back Cole!

Lumping the Phils in with the Eagles is GETTING ME STEAMED!

La Russa's "two strike zone" comments may hurt the Cardinals in later games. Umps hate being shown up, especially by know - it - alls like La Russa. Meals called a poor game but at least he was consistently bad. Once they hear about that (and they will) Cardinal pitchers may not get the close calls on pitches near the plate.

Agreed, they should have won. It's on Lee and the team. But I'm glad someone called out Meals for inconsistency. For what it's worth, Dibble on XM called Meals's ball and strike calling "brutal." For TLR, calling out the umpire on national TV was probably worth a fine, if he gets one, as a bit of added gamesmanship. Note after that it was increasingly the Phillies who were complaining. Recall Utley's backward K; there was nothing fine about that. The best teams deserve the best umps. They should be anonymous.

Good Morning.


Not much else to laugh about. Like the two folks above, I was beat and went to bed smiling while they were up by 4. At least the bullpen did well.

The look on Jimmy's face after his second double-but-almost-a-homerun was priceless. It's like kissing your sister.

Have a great day.

Just wait until Angel Hernandez is behind the plate (if he's going to STL). He'll be so confused: do I hose TLR for calling us out on TV or stick it to Doc, because he pissed me off in Pittsburgh? Let's hope the umps rise somewhat above revenge.

(I'm not assuming, of course, they will lose the Hamels game and therefore be desperate enough to throw Doc in STL.) Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't pull Joe West.

Was at the game and I have a few random thoughts:
Why do fans cheer Lee when he's lifted, having blown a 4-run lead?
Why do fans dance like morons for the video board when their team is in serious trouble?
Didn't LaRussa realize 46K people had to go to work/school this morning?
Why are incompetent umpires rewarded w/ postseason assignments?

@EFF: My apologies for GETTING YOU STEAMED!!! I forget that the Phils at least have a leader who brought this city a championship and should not be lumped in with the likes of the fat guy in the green and black jump suit.

I thought Meals had a narrow zone for most of the game. He widened it a bit later and, he had no high strike with two notable exceptions - one to Berkman (?) which drew some protests but, was a strike acc. to the rule book and the one high and outside to Utley, which was simply a blown call and potentially a damaging one. The only thing you can say in Berkman's defense is Lee was consistently not getting the high strike, other than that one call. To the extent LaRussa's woofing got him the call on Utley, that pisses me off. The ump needs to tunethat out. I thought the two strike zone stuff was B.S., and LaRussa should be (but likely isn't) embarrassed to say it on National TV.

Yeah, tough loss. Shane took a bad rout to that ball in deep center. That put a guy on 3rd and pulled the infield in so Albert's ball got over Jimmy's head. Polanco's DP in the 1st really hurt. Our 7 and 8 hitters brought nothing again. Cliff almost nabbed Molina's ball by his knee which would have been an easy double play - the Cards went on to get 3 that inning. The biggest problem though was the inability to add to the early runs. We lost a lot of games this year because we get a couple of runs in the 1st or 2nd and get shut out the rest of the game. Inexcusable vs. their BP.

@basil: No offense but isn't the idea to have "fun" at a baseball game? Sure they were losing but that doesn't mean you have to be a sad sack about it.

BTW...I still think we're the better team and we'll win the series. I don't have warm fuzzies about tomorrow's game, though. Garcia is a lefty who throws junk. We don't normally do well vs. lefties who throw junk.

According to my Twitter account, Lee wasn't bad last night, just unlucky.


Add to my 8:00 am post...Lee can't be giving up 12 hits in a playoff game. Yeah a lot of them found holes but a lot of them were hit hard.

Add to my 8:00 am post...Lee can't be giving up 12 hits in a playoff game. Yeah a lot of them found holes but a lot of them were hit hard.

What bugged me was Lee would get 2 quick strikes and then would get to clever and all of a sudden it's 2-2 or a full count.

Clinical assessment of last night's strike zone by David Murphy in News this morning. The balance of bad strike zone calls (strikes called balls) clearly in favor of the Cardinals last night.

Ever since I heard that crap Rolen spewed abut St. Louis being "baseball heaven", I've been a certifiable St. Louis hater. Networks angling for a St. Louis/ Yankees WS?

Regardless, Lee has to be a better pitcher than what he showed last night. If the Phils get through this series, we need to see Lee show his "lock down" mode again. Nothing else will do for someone who’s uninjured and has his track record.

"abut" = "about". Damn spell check.

I've been a season ticket holder since CBP opened. Last night the fans seemed like a different kind of group from the moment I parked. Maybe the regulars decided to sell and stay home so they could watch the Eagles and drink. The fans seemed to be just happy to enjoy a party...or very drunk. And I've never seen so many people leave a one-run playoff game in the 8th inning. Sure, it was late, and sure, it was raining (not that hard), but come on.

No, it has nothing to do with the result, but I was curious if anyone else noticed it.

I actually had no problem with the strikezone until LaRussa complained. No high strike, but it seemed pretty uniform for both teams. Once LaRussa went out and said something during a mound visit, the edges of the zone seemed to get a little soft and undefined to me.

Marv: the resale value for those tickets on Stubhub are high.

It's one thing if you get beaten by Pujols or Berkman or even Craig. But when you get staked to a 4-0 lead and gag it away to the likes of Ryan Theroit and Jon Jay, you deserve any and all criticism for a sorry performance. Lee blew it last night.

Not a good morning.

Lee never did look sharp last night. Up in the zone, catching far too much plate, or when on the edges, just off the edges. Just didn't seem to have his normal control.

No idea how that bullpen shuts us down for 6 innings.

Oh brother, the Phils lose the game thanks to Lee coughing up the lead & the bats going silent after the 2nd and folks wanna complain about the crowd whatever. The crowd was loud but sadly it didn't seem to have any affect on the offense...I stayed for the bottom of the 9th and the Phils couldn't even get man on base..if you blinked you would have missed the bottom of the 9th.. Raul K'ed on 3 straight and you all know that Polly & Ruiz are 0-16 to know how the rest down. The offense was simply flat, no need to make excuses for the piss poor play. On another note nice to see the bullpen (the only real brightspot) come thru in the clutch,

Long time reader, first time poster.

Why did Charlie leave Cliff in during the 7th? He was already over 100 pitches and he was getting slapped around hard.

In 1983 Pat Corrales left Carlton in a game far too long and got beat. The DN headline was "Corrales Has Wait Problem" Today we can substitute Manuel for Corrales.

Lee didn't get "too cute" last night. His control was inconsistent. We've seen this from him before, and we've all commented on it throughout the year. Lee's stuff isn't quite good enough to generally overcome poor command. He would find the slot for a couple hitters, and then lose it and leave a ball right over the heart of the plate.

This is just the nature of pitching. Sometimes you're on, and sometimes you're not. Lee through the first 9 postseason starts was the king of the world. He's now given up 16 runs in his last 3 postseason starts, totaling 17 innings.

He wasn't being clever or trying to be tricky. He just wasn't that good last night. It happens to him, and when it does, he gives up lots of hard hit balls, ecause they're usually over the heart of the plate, and when he missed, he misses badly, so they don't chase. Doc wouldn't have had a "collapse" like that not becase he's mentally tougher or more business-like or whatever. He wouldn't have that because he's simply got better stuff. Not to say Doc can't get beaten up, but he's more able to get away with a few pitches that catch too much plate.

To me, the worst part of last night's game, other than Lee's pitching, was not just that we didn't score against the Cards bullpen, but we didn't even put any pressure on them, thus allowing LaRussa to go matchup crazy. If we put even a mini-rally together, he's not able to set up every matchup to his liking. eventually he would have had to accept a couple poor matchups, since he only has so many pitchers back there.

Cliff Lee was good for three, then bad for three. The loss is on him. 4 runs should be enough to win a playoff game at home with your #2 on the mound, plain and simple. Also, why he started the 7th, I have no idea.

Oh well, go get 'em Tuesday.

I agree, Bake, not a good morning. However, today is a new day, no game, a day for the players to reflect and get steeled up for Tuesday and Wednesday.

personally, i thought that was a very tough spot for charlie. yes, lee was over 100 pitches but he did have 8 or 9 k's and had moments where he looked like typical postseason cliff lee.

my thought was, let him start and yank him immediately if he didnt get the first out. didnt work out that way.

the problem was -- do you send in vance (who i think was the only one warming up at the start of the 7th) in to face pujols in his first playoff appearance or go with cliff lee? most people would prob have lee face him although righty-righty with worley may have worked...or he may have grooved a fastball for a 2 run homer, we'll never know.

still optimistic bc of our pitching staff. this is cole's moment and i think he will dominate. phils bats will need to score 3 runs to win the game and i think they will.

my prediction: phils 3 cardinals 1 with oswalt ready to end the series wednesday night.

When the Phillies scored their four runs, I told my wife about the righty-lefty issue that BLers were screaming about for years about Cholly regarding the lefty-lefty-lefty lineup of Utley-Howard-Ibanez. The new Utley-Pense-Howard-Vic-Ibanez lineup solves that problem and the results have been all wins except for last night. Where did the "blood in the water" hitting attitude go last night after LaRussa went to the Cardinal's bullpen?

Lol. Can someone cue up the "he's my guy" picture in reference to 202phil's previous post?

Did anyone catch JRoll's comments after the game and on twitter complaining that the atmosphere at CPB was "not what we needed" and it was too quiet! I have always loved Jroll but that was a little out of line. The crowd seemed loud on TV the first few innings but had nothing to cheer about after that. At least Cliff took responsibility for his poor performance but Jroll seemed intent on blaming the fans not his being picked off, admiring one of his doubles that could have been a triple and one of his misplays on a ground ball.

Think these guys gut a little too confident after the first few innings and put it on auto pilot and were shocked to all of a sudden be losing then they paniced and it all got away from them.

Very glad to see how our bullpen did. I have to admit I was filled with dread when Brad came in with all of those guys on base but he was awesome. Same with Bastardo, Worley (loved the pitch high and tight) and Madson.

To those who think the strike zone was good last night, I have one question: what game were you watching? I don't think it was worse for one team/pitcher than the other, like a certain manager thought, but it was horrendous all night. Inexplicably bad.

Not remotely the reason the Phillies lost, but annoying nonetheless.

Strikezone sucked on both sides of the plate, plain and simple.

Why do fans cheer Lee when he's lifted, having blown a 4-run lead?

Agreed 100%. I couldn't believe Lee got a positive reaction when he was pulled. At the time, he had just blown a commanding lead. Apparently, some people think there are only two reactions when a pitcher is pulled: cheers or boos. I wouldn't have booed Lee, but I sure as hell wouldn't have applauded that performance.

...[J-Roll complaining on Twitter] that the atmosphere at CPB was "not what we needed" and it was too quiet!

Hey J-Roll -- you know what WE needed? A shutdown inning. A few hits here and there. Not getting thrown out at 2B attempting to steal with the heart of the order coming up.

Maybe then, the place wouldn't have been "too quiet". It was rocking pretty hard when the were playing good baseball. Shocking, no?

"Agreed 100%. I couldn't believe Lee got a positive reaction when he was pulled. At the time, he had just blown a commanding lead. Apparently, some people think there are only two reactions when a pitcher is pulled: cheers or boos. I wouldn't have booed Lee, but I sure as hell wouldn't have applauded that performance."

Imagine if that were Cole Hamels..........

I'm not here to defend Manuel's decision to send Lee back out in the 7th. It was questionable. But, it wasn't a slam dunk either way. He's thin in the bullpen and rightly concerned about his seventh inning options. Lee had been inconsistent but, he had owned Pujols on his last 2 at bats and Berkman is murder on right handers.

Another fanatic 10-times-a-day+ reader for the entire season, chiming in for the first time. Thanks to all of you for the conversation. Count me among you who has either watched or listened to at least 155 games this season, sneaking away from work and social events to catch every inning.

Here’s hoping this week is the time for the “second aces” (Cole and ViceRoy) to take the stage, show their stuff, and shine for a city that worships Cliff and Doc. Not that the praise on the first two is undeserved, but it would be awesome for the other two to totally dominate and prove that, indeed, we have FOUR aces, not the "A aces" and the "B aces." Cole and LilRoy, this is your time to have a city rally around you, make headlines, and do what we know you can do. How great would it be to have one of them be the series MVP? What a story line.

(Zolecki and Everett have differing views on which Roy to use if we are down 2-1 after tomorrow. I say start with Oswalt, who has a history of post-season dominance, knows Busch Stadium, and was brilliant last time out. Keep Halladay ready just in case, but keep him for going in Game 5 fully rested.)

If we look at each game as a learning experience for Cholly, what do we think he has learned so far for future games? Lidge can handle it. Worley doesn’t have rookie jitters. Stutes is out of consideration for a high leverage situation. Any more lessons?

Still enjoying Jimmy’s post-season hustle, even though he was out at second. At least he made it to first base.

Mayberry better be in LF on Tuesday.

Re: Lee in 7th - Lee struck out Pujols twice, right? Why run the risk of putting out Worley, who was warming up and against whom Pujols was 3 for 3 or something of the sorts.

Re: J-Roll on Twitter - Not as bad as the claim. Here's the message: "JimmyRollins11
Not the result we wanted but that's the way it is!! Now we just gotta handle biz on the road! Also fans were waaay to quiet tonight"

Don't blow that up. If anything, he's just trying to get everyone to cheer more when the rough spots are going on.

Re: Clapping for people - I'm not going to say anything more about it after this: if you're annoyed at people clapping for a player that they like, standing or not, or if you're against ANY kind of show of support for a player on your team, you're a piss-poor fan. Lee has been great this year, so when he runs into a bump and people want to show him the support that he has proven to deserve, let them and keep your mouth shut regardless of whether or not you think he should get it at that moment.
And for everyone that finds it annoying that Hamels might not get that support: sorry, but that's no excuse to whine over a city's love for another player. Show Hamels support yourself if everyone else boos or is griping. Stand up yourself on a blown outing. If you don't think he deserve the stand, just sit there and clap.
There's no crime in showing support for your players or your team regardless of who they are or what they've done. You know who feels the worst about the plays that they botch? The ones who botch the plays. Be a fan and let them know you can overlook that because of how great they are otherwise.

Yo, new thread

Second game fans were bandwaagoners. Vegetables, and not the meat and potatoes we are used to during regular season...

Do you really have to? The study tentatively recommends that the life-saving kits be issued to “some first responders, health care providers, and other workers that support critical infrastructure, as well as their families.” Apparently medical workers aren’t too stupid to live, according to the Institute of, uh, Medicine. And neither are government workers – those postal workers, the cops that will have to accompany them, and anybody else in government who’s smart enough to call himself a first responder (want to bet that includes the Governor?).

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