Game chat: Phillies face familiar foe in Willis

It's been four years and a lot of anguish since Dontrelle Willis last saw the Phillies. The former Fish seeks his first win of 2011 when the Reds and Phillies continue their series. Cliff Lee (14-7, 2.71) goes for his sixth-straight win as the Phils look to ride another ace to victory this series. [Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[A-Train]

Phils will hit Willis hard and win big!!!

[Scotch Man]

Nice shot of Willis there JW. All I needed to confidently type:

Feels like a loss

[SLO Phan]

Great. Picture of opposing player in game thread. Feels like a loss.

[Cyclic]

What are the numbers for this "opposing player in the game thread pic" theory?

[donc]

Yes but the player is having a bad year. Ok 4 years. Feels like a...tie?

[GTown_Dave]

Have the Phillies won yet this season w/ an opposing player as the game thread pic? I'd feel far more comfortable featuring the opposing team's logo.

[denny b.]

JD Drew injured his middle finger.

There is a good joke there.

[Willard Preacher]

I have some "catch up" work to do on the spreadsheet, but let me get back to you on the stat. I do know that as of the end of July the Phils were 0-9 when JW went with JUST the opposing player pic in the header. They did win when he went with both Utley and Pedroia int he June 30 header.

[Bigot-to]

Cyclic, the numbers are bad for the Phillies. It's a tremendous oversight on JW's part.

[They Call Me King Of The Bop]

hib to the jib

[Bake McBride was Here]

"I do know that as of the end of July the Phils were 0-9 when JW went with JUST the opposing player pic in the header"

Game = Over

Oh well. Maybe we'll at least get to see if this Bowker is the anti-Gload or if he's just another . . . Gload.

[Cyclic]

Maybe he used a lot of opposing player pics when we have gone for sweeps?

[Lake Fred]

With the Giants cutting old fence face loose and the gNats gnashing their teeth over their overpayment of Werth, teams will think long and hard before offering a lot of money for Philly free agent stars. That's good for us. Our good players will stay here and continue to perform because the world is bleak elsewhere.

[donc]

LF: Just points out one immutable truth: Rube is The Prince of Darkness.

[Willard Preacher]

Confirmed, JW hasn't used a singular pic of an opposing player since July 9 (Tommy Hanson). On the season, the Phils are, indeed, 0-9, with the opposing player image in the header.

Might as well find something else on TV tonight.

[Willard Preacher]

Make it 0-10. I missed a Dustin Ackley pic back on June 17.

[Cliff]

Remember when Willis was ESPN's "flavor of the month" for their baseball coverage?

[CJ]

St. Utley fails to get it done... and the Albatross drives in the run. Same old, same old. Anyone notice that Placido Polanco still has more RBI than St. Utley? What's up with that?

[Cyclic]

Great job by our 3 and 4 hitters again.

When will Charlie break those 2 up?

[SLO Phan]

I love it when we score a run without getting a hit.

[Willard Preacher]

Has Willis ever been linked to PED's? Just curious, since he basically fell off a cliff after incredible early career success. Then again, so did Hideo Nomo, once batters saw enough of him.

[Willard Preacher]

Um, Polly has had 62 more AB's this season and 2 more RBI???

[CJ]

Not sure Willis was ever linked to the juice. He was never really as good as he was in 2005 where he had by far the best control of his career and lead the league with the lowest HR/9 at just 0.4.

His control really started to leave him and was gone by the time he reached Detroit.

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

I was just thinking that Willis' arms are looking much bigger than they did back in the day (if I'm remembering correctly). So, if he ever used PEDs, it might have been after his good years, which would suggest someone sold him some bad sh*t.

[CJ]

Willard Preacher: And? Polly has an OPS 150 points lower and has had 20 or so ABs in non-RBI places in the lineup (7th, 1st, etc). Utley is hitting 3rd in one of the best scoring lineups in baseball. What's his deal?

[NEPP]

Dontrelle thickened up and it screwed his delivery.

Not really a mystery.

Also, he was never really all that great.

[NEPP]

I'm just trying to figure out why CJ hates Chase Utley...

[gobaystars!]

The Phillies vs D-train. It takes you back to the days of first apartments, jobs at sh8tty restaurants, taking the night owl bus home because $8 for a cab wasn't in the budget and a young Phillies team with not quite enough pitching scratching to stay in division and wild card races every September. I remember those days fondly.
I hope Dontrelle has a great start and the Phillies prevail.

[Iceman]

Just saw a post on Crashburn Alley entitled 'Investigating Ryan Howard's Decline.' Did Howard do something to incite people in the past few weeks that I missed? The bashing is at an all-time high right now, and it's not just on BL.

Of course, Baer claims in the comment section that Utley 'isn't on the decline,' which makes any perspective he holds on anything a little dubious.

[gobaystars!]

As for weight gain, we need to remember that Willis broke into the league at 21 or so. From 25 on he got bigger it isn't really unusual.

[gobaystars!]

Lenny white. Carl black.

[CJ]

NEPP: He makes way too much money for the terrible production we're currently getting.

[bay_area_phan]

Stupidity all around on that play. Cholly was stupid for having a good hitter like Lee bunting. Dontrelle was stupid for going to 3rd instead of taking the safe out. And the ump was stupid for blowing the call at 3rd.

[gobaystars!]

The M*ke V*ck extension reminded people that Howard makes "too much money".

[Andrew]

Well that sucked.

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

Dammit, Victorino. If you don't get it done, no one else will.

[SLO Phan]

Very frustrating......

[CJ]

Hard to go out more feebly than we did after loading them up with 1 out.

[The hook]

Not tWo Of the best at bats there by our boys there!

[donc]

The Phillies just gave a gift horse a tonsilectomy.

[Bob]

I remember many years ago, there was one of those rumors that the Phils might actuakky get Dontrelle Willis via the Fish. People were really excited. Good thing that didn't work out. Best of luck to him, though (other than tonight).

[Iceman]

Oh man. That curveball was filthy.

[TNA]

Sick curveball to strike out Stubbs. Talk about no chance.

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

The behind-the-plate seating setup at the IronPigs stadium does not make for good TV viewing.

[Mike G]

Just saw a post on Crashburn Alley entitled 'Investigating Ryan Howard's Decline.' Did Howard do something to incite people in the past few weeks that I missed? The bashing is at an all-time high right now, and it's not just on BL.

Of course, Baer claims in the comment section that Utley 'isn't on the decline,' which makes any perspective he holds on anything a little dubious.

Posted by: Iceman | Wednesday, August 31, 2011 at 07:29 PM

Ice, No Howard didn't do anything in particular, that's SOP on Crashburn Alley. There is a post like that about once a week it seems. And as far as Baer stating that Utley isn't in decline, that's also SOP.

[whitey]

Did anyone catch what Willis was talkin' bout?

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

Willis' cap is really dripping with sweat. Is it really hot out there?

[CJ]

Wake me when Utley does something other than ground out to 1st/2nd or pops out weakly to SS/3B.

[SLO Phan]

Phils with plenty of opportunities, but just can't get that key hit.

[Iceman]

Mike G- that was the most ironic thing about the post to me. After delving so deep into the numbers to explain why Howard is decaying before our eyes that it makes your head spin, and lecturing us that 'it's OK to point out flaws in players you root for,' he claims that Utley isn't declining as just a statement in passing, like it's not even worth discussion. You can look at his last three seasons worth of numbers, look at the number of games he's missed due to injury, or just observe the guy playing this year: he is not even close to what he once was. Really a stunning statement that will make me question his objectivity when reading his stuff from now on.

[Mike G]

I couldn't agree more Ice.

[bay_area_phan]

CJ: Your disgust with Utley's recent play is 100% justified. And there would be nothing the least bit irritating about it if weren't motivated by an ulterior agenda of mocking the many posters who have registered similar -- and even more justified -- disgust with Howard.

[Iceman]

BAP always there to lecture us not only on who we should be disgusted with, but what players are more worthy of our disgust.

[Willard Preacher]

CJ, you do have a valid point on Utley. With his current production, he's not earning his paycheck. Whether or not it's related to his injury is irrelevant.

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that his production, though eroded, only brings him more in line to other 2B's, so an alternative isn't as readily identified.

Aslo, there's the little fact problem that if he is, indeed, washed up, you only have to figure out how to eat/trade the remaining 2 years/$30M as opposed to something like 5 years and $115M dollars with a 6th yr and $10M buyout.

[jhs]

Regarding the Noodles Hahn/George Culver no-hitter trivia question, Phils were last no-hit by Bob Forsch in 1978. Cubs last no-hit by Koufax in 1965, Pirates by Gibson in 1971, all other MLB teams more recently than 1978 (counting Montreal and Washington as the same). Pretty amazing considering that the Phils were no-hit 9 times between 1960 and 1978.

[phils and nova]

the howard bashing is mostly due to prince fielder and albert pujols heading into free agency.

the vick contract may have stirred it a little more locally but howards contract and his production or lack thereof in some peoples eyes is now a national story because of pujols and fielder.

it will be very interesting to see where those guys end up and how much they will be paid.

[MG]

Iceman - I like Crashburn Alley but Baer has blinders on to Utley especially in regards to his defense and his throwing.

I don't understand why it isn't easy to realize that both Howard/Utley are in decline (mainly due to age and possibly due to injury in Utley's case) but that most guys are still good/very good players yet who are better than a majority of their peers at their respective positions.

Helps that are several very good/great 1B now and kind of a bit of a talent lull at 2B overall in MLB.

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

Imagine waking up in the middle of the night to find Mr. Redlegs standing silently by your bed watching you with those crazy eyes of his. That would kind of suck.

[Bob]

S'up with Lee not running that grounder out?

[Matt]

I'm sorry, but that was totally unprofessional by Lee. Run the damn play out.

[bay_area_phan]

Kind of a disappointing game from Vic so far. I've just come to expect that he's going to light up almost every left-hander he faces -- especially a mediocre one like Willis.

[GTown_Dave]

I'm confused ... wasn't Dontrelle supposed to suck? And if so, why do the Phillies appear to be the ones who suck?

[jhs]

Crashburn Alley recently "proved" that Cole Hamels didn't pitch badly in 2009 because he pitched well in 2010 and 2011. So those SABR guys were so right...

[Willard Preacher]

phils and nova, good point. Ryno would have been a FA after this season, competing for suitors with the 1B's you noted. And since we've already debunked the whole "playing better in a contract year" myth, it would be interesting to see what kind of speculation was out there on a FA contract for the big man.

[donc]

Sarge explaining what the term swinging bunt means. Glad I tuned in tonight.

[curt]

"the howard bashing is mostly due to prince fielder and albert pujols heading into free agency."

Yes, and it's misdirected. It would be great to pick from among Howard, Fielder, Pujois and Votto (supposedly available) this winter, but Rube thought he had a better idea.

[Willard Preacher]

GTown, please reference above noted commentary regarding JW's header graphic choice. You really should have seen this coming a mile away.

[Willard Preacher]

Nice throw from Chooch there.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: CJ's more than entitled to be disgusted with Utley. My problem is that he's NOT really disgusted with him. He's just pretending to be in order to parody Howard's critics -- right down to making identical arguments like, "Utley's not earning his salary." If he thinks Howard's critics are off-base, tell them why they're off base. Faux indignation is not an argument.

Nice throw, Chooch.

[MG]

donc - Listening to the radio while I work. Don't miss Sarge/TMac one bit.

[chooch]

Thanks BAP.

[bay_area_phan]

chooch: Even more impressive than your throw is your ability to catch and post on Beerleaguer at the same time.

[donc]

MG: Just hope he doesn't broach the subject of jock itch.

[chooch]

I'm a renaissance man. Tools of ignorance my ass.

[GTown_Dave]

Preacher: I know. Quite frankly, I'm twice as pissed now. I wanted to see how well Dontrelle did on his own merits, but the Opposing Player Graphic Jinx has f*cked that plan all to hell.

[phils and nova]

"It would be great to pick from among Howard, Fielder, Pujois and Votto (supposedly available) this winter, but Rube thought he had a better idea."

it's true if i'm playing in a fantasy league, i would probably take one of those guys over howard but can anyone picture the phillies letting howard walk and then signing votto or fielder or even pujols??

i just cant see the phillies management letting howard go to another team after what he's done for the organization and the fact that he's a homegrown player......now go sign cole hamels

[Cyclic]

So Polanco is completely finished, right?

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

And thus begins the next round in the great controversy: Who Sucks More, Utley or Howard?

[GTown_Dave]

Cyclic: Yup. Luckily, the Phils have Bowker, who can play 1B & LF & RF ...

Wait, WTF?

[MG]

Dave - If I knew that Weitzel was going to put the Willis picture, I would have bet on the Reds tonight at +175. Such is the power of the opposing player totem.

[Cyclic]

If Howard doesn't homer here, he sucks.

[curt]

At least we cleared Polly, Utley & Howard that inning.

[Cyclic]

AHAhA. Woward.

[phils and nova]

andddd thats why utley howard back to back scares the crap out of me in the playoffs

[Andrew]

What is this whole Memphis, New Orleans curve ball thing the announcers for Cincinnati are talking about? They mentioned it last night too.

[GTown_Dave]

Assuming Rollins is back for the Postseason, I'd like to see Vic batting 3rd. When & Howard are both not hitting, it's brutal.

[Bake Mcbride was Here]

Utley went down looking in a 3-2 count.

Howard struck out flailing away in a 1-2 count.

Who sucks more?

[Iceman]

Here's why I don't get the positional value BS thrown by the white knights that come in and coddle Utley every time someone says something remotely bad about him: these are some of the same people who complain about Jimmy Rollins (and have for years), despite YEARS of him continuing to put up very, very good numbers, both on offense and defense, based on the position he plays. The same people that think we could just replace Rollins with some scrub like Jason Bartlett and not miss a beat. But Utley is untouchable because he plays second base?

The inconsistency with the argument is the problem. I have no issue with people defending Utley per se, but the way he is coddled by some, while others are cast aside as guys that could be replaced by league retreads and career minor leaguers, is really unbelievable.

[bay_area_phan]

Yeah, why everyone keeps criticizing Howard is really beyond me . . .

[Bob]

Polanco and Howard just had two of the more futile strikeouts I've seen in a while by major league players. Utley's wasn't pretty either, but at least he ran a full count and the strikeout pitch was pretty nasty. Wow.

[MG]

Phils' offense has been much better the last few months but it seems like they still often go to sleep during the middle frames.

[GTown_Dave]

The Phillies should DFA Utley & Howard & start over.

[Matt]

Actually, Sarge, backing up the throw at first is something they do teach catchers.

[kuvasz]

Moe, Larry, and Curly could not have done that better.

[jhs]

Just your routine 6-4-2-4 DP.

[donc]

You guys suck. Utz knew exactly what he was doing there. We'll call him effectively wild.

[GTown_Dave]

Chooch, on the other hand, Rules.

[curt]

Another thing about Utley...he's too close to a full blown case of the yips.

[Lance Phillips]

Tom McCarthy: one out in the top of the 2nd"Shane Victorino has scored the games only run"....REALLY,TOM!
@Chris Wheeler.....Hunter Pence:I love the kid,one of the best everyday players added to the team in the last decade.That being said I DO NOT NEED TO HEAR EVERY NIGHT HOW GOOFY HE IS! I also do not give half a crap about how many balls he hits out of the park in batting practice.Do you have any idea how often and many things you repeat night after night.No doubles defense,Left handers are just different, middle in,middle in,middle in AAAARGH!You don't want to make the first or last out at third base! AAAAARGH!

[bay_area_phan]

This is actually funny on some sick level. Our 2 star players are taking turns trying to outdo each other for comprehensive displays of ineptitude -- while Beerleaguer fights about which guy is worse.