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Thursday, July 28, 2011


Ludwick not in Padres lineup today reports Jim Salisbury. Rumors that Phillies are close to Adams and Ludwick and Rangers close on Heath Bell or Padres keep Bell and resign him at hometown discount. Meanwhile Atlanta close on Quentin

If Atlanta gets Quentin I will be upset.

His mound opponent tonight will be -- bladder-willing -- All-Star right-hander Tim Lincecum (8-8, 2.90).

Don't you mean sphincter willing?

I will be too...Still don't think the White Sox will do it tho

From last thread about Ludwick's fielding, some St. Louis fans I chat with think he's perfectly fine in the OF, good enough to have faked CF in years past.

Change the F'ing picture. Have you learned nothing here, rook?

Change the F'ing picture. Have you learned nothing here, rook?

Posted by: Buddy Ryan in 2008 | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 04:14 PM

This is a great line coming from one so rationally and empirically inclined as BR08.

Steinbrenner just signed Irabu

I'm with Buddy Ryan. We are now screwed.

Based on what metric is Ryan Ludwick a below-average defensive outfielder?

His UZR in RF, his primary position for the years 2008-10, is +1.9, +0.9 and -0.5 over that period, which grades out to league average, which is what scouts say he is. His UZR this season, so far, is +4.1, but that is in LF and is a partial season and thus fairly worthless.

His arm is slightly above average (hence RF).

Again, based on what evidence is Ludwick declared to be a below average defender?

I'm with Buddy Ryan, I also have no offensive line or running game.

Clout: Ludwick looks to me to be a slightly better version of Francisco (or at least the Francisco we thought we were getting).

Slighty above-average offensive player with some pop, and a decent enough defensive OF to play the corners pretty well and fake CF if necessary.

Someone explain to me why "Fat Toad" is listed as one of Hideki Irabu's nicknames on (you can actually search "fat toad" in BR and get directly to Irabu's page). If slanders made by other people are considered nicknames, then why isn't "Mr. May" one of Dave Winfield's nicknames?

If we pick up Ludwick, Ben Franscisco would be wise to immediately start packing his bags. He'll be gone.

BenFran should be gone soon enough anyway. He's got an option left so just send him down to Lehigh.

per Buster Olney: The Phillies' hope that Houston is willing to move Hunter Pence seems to be holding up PHI's conversations with SD about Adams/Ludwick.

If you want to get an idea of how far offensive levels have dropped, and how much of a pitchers' park PETCO is:

Ryan Ludwick has a .675 OPS ... good for a 92 OPS+. In 2004, Tomas Perez had a .671 OPS for the Phillies ... good for a 67 OPS+.

Am I crazy to think, though, that John Mayberry=Ryan Ludwick. I mean, unless Ludwich is starting for his defensive value over Brown, what purpose will he serve here that Mayberry doesn't already serve?

I can see Werth rooming with BenFranc on the road

Screw overpaying for Pence...just make the Adams/Ludwick deal. We need a BP arm more than an OF anyway.

How many times have we said how much we'd love to be major leaguers? When a former ML-er takes his own life you have to reflect that money and fame don't really buy anything after all. Life is life, no matter what.

Singleton, Cosart, + does seem like a lot for Pence, but I'd still do it. Maybe Pence with Adams in seperate deals!?!

If Pence means Singleton/Cosart/+, and Adams/Ludwick means you only give up one of them ...

I'm inclined to agree with NEEP and just say go for Adams/Ludwick. It sounds to me like we're about to massively overpay for Pence. Pence, by the way, has hit .277/.336/.387 since June 15th.

No way we could get both Pence and Adams without complete wiping out our farm system.

Instead of obsessing over Pence, just move to Plan B and go with it. It worked out in 09 when Ricciardi was being ridiculous about Halladay and we went and got Lee instead.

I'm not even sure that Ludwick is as good as Ibanez, let alone Domonic Brown. And he doesn't even hit LHP well, which largely defeats the entire purpose of acquiring a RH bat. He's better than Francisco, but a slight upgrade of our 5th outfielder hardly seems like the team's most pressing need. And, once Cholly has a new toy like Ludwick, all it will do is eat into playing time that would otherwise go to our younger players who could use the experience.

If taking Ludwick & his salary somehow reduces what we'd have to give up to get Adams, I guess I'm ok with it; it's not like he'd be completely useless. But Ludwick does nothing for me. I'd rather just get Adams.

Adams is nice, but I'm just "meh" on Ludwick. He is that much better than what we already have in Mayberry/Brown?

Ludwick did always seem like a bad fit for Petco

"Ludwick did always seem like a bad fit for Petco"

Pretty much every hitter in baseball is a bad fit for Petco.

Does everybody believe Werth is as bad as he has been this year? Will he bounce back next year or ever be able to live up to that contract?

No not Aumont for ludwick Esta Loco

Who does Ludwick/whatever bat we acquire replace on the roster?

Mayberry right? (Assuming Ben Fran is the one who's gone when Polanco returns)

And Oswalt coming back pushes Kendrick back in the pen, and Carpenter is gone, yes?

And Adams then replaces whom?

If any of this happens at all.

To be honest, the trade deadline this year has just not been filled with a really exciting player. Even Beltran, who's had a very good year, is still a 34 year old outfielder with a big time injury history who is only a rental. Pence, while a nice player, is NOT superstar. There are no big pitching names out there, and then there are a bunch of relievers. What a boring trade deadline it's been so far.

At least in years past Lee was out there (twice) Doc was out there (though never actually traded, but was legitimately out there), Sabathia, Holliday, Tex, Man-Ram, Oswalt...really exciting names. This year, if 34 year old Beltran is the steal of the deadline...boring...

Not crazy about Ludwick, he had one good year. And doesn't he have reverse splits anyway?

Fataloti has the nail on the head. If you check Ludvick's on the road numbers (to compensate for Petco) he has 190 PA, 6HR , and slugging still below .400. Mayberry has 6 HR in 150 PA and his slugging is 100 points higher.
I don't get it. But then the Rube let Lee go and then realized he made a mistake (withotu ever admittign it) and brought him back a year later. So why should we be surprised.

Jack: Well he's a HUGE upgrade over the real Francisco, but I think he's better than the fake one too.

He hit 37 HRs one year, something I can't imagine Frrancisco ever doing.

I also thought it was interesting that, playing with one of the worst offenses in the NL, he already had 62 RBI despite only 11 HR.

If we got Ludwick, we get another better brother, so there's that.

When I was just looking at Ludwick's career track, why did I get Geoff Jenkins flashes?

In a crazy world, Phillies get Pence and Atlanta gets Quentin to counter.

Personally I think Ludwick could be alright in a platoon. Look at his career splits here:

His best numbers are when he bats 5th, 6th, or 2nd. His numbers at 4th are inflated by hitting behind Albert Pujols. He actually hit pretty well batting second for the Cardinals, again with Pujols and Holliday behind him.

This tells me he's a complimentary piece, but a decent one with lineup support. I'd expect his numbers to be significantly better in the Phillies lineup as #2 or #6 than what he's currently producing in the #4 spot for SD with no help.

"To be honest, the trade deadline this year has just not been filled with a really exciting player. Even Beltran, who's had a very good year, is still a 34 year old outfielder with a big time injury history who is only a rental. Pence, while a nice player, is NOT superstar. There are no big pitching names out there, and then there are a bunch of relievers. What a boring trade deadline it's been so far."

Fatol: +100

And Adams then replaces whom?

Uh, Herndon or Perez?

Oh yeah. That was my guess. I just couldn't think of it.

Well he is batting cleanup so the team RBIs are his.
Howard once hit 58 HR. I know alittle of your style so doyou think Howard is going to come near that number again? Ludvick's production has dropped even more precipitously.

Also, getting Adams in a deal would be an excellent move and a necessary one. Yes, the bullpen has been very, very good with Stutes, Bastardo, and Madson.

But watching Lidge last night, I no longer think he can close or pitch in the final frames. His fastball now sits at 89-90, even lower than last year at 92-93, and hitters can lay off his slider. They'll sit on his fastball and pound it.

Stutes is a rookie. You don't want him in late frames for the playoffs if you can avoid it. Adams at least would give us a bullpen to compete with the Braves and Giants.

Bill Hall will soon be available again....not that it would help anybody

Don't be surprised if the Phillies still nab Pence. Astros are clearly listening to offers. I'd find it difficult to believe another team is offering as good as prospects as Cosart and Singleton plus a third.

We've counted RAJ out before and learned to be shocked. Prepare yourself again. Pence in Red pinstripes...I see it happening.

For what is worth, this is an aging team, sacrificing futures by bringing in guys like Ludvick is hardly a winning formula. This is probably the last year this team can take the WS. Guys like Brown and Mayberry can and will produce if given a chance to play. They are doing this already and are liekly to become even more productive as the season progresses.
Its 3rd base that is the problem not the OF and given how deep our starters are pitching there are enough arms in the pen.

Have to be honest, I think Adams is probably the most interesting name out there on the market. He really adds to the bullpen and the likelihood that they'd overpay is less, given that he's not a "proven closer."

RK: "This is probably the last year this team can take the WS."

Huh? Based on the fact that Raul Ibanez won't be here next year?

Adams/Ludwick would be a nice package. It isn't a bunch of big names but Ludwick could take the Francisco role and Adams would mean we can shorten the game even further and would give us some insurance to let Madson move on after this year.

CJ: We've been hearing about the window of opportunity closing for years. Yet every year the payroll rises and every year the Phillies win more games.

TTI, I agree.

As long as the move doesn't affect the playing time/development of DOM, I'm cool with it.

Sounds like an upgrade to me.

TTI, what role does Francisco even have right now?

Fact is, a RH bat off the bench doesn't excite me at all. Manuel had the PERFECT opportunity to use a RH bat off teh bench last night and decided not to. I don't see that changing with Ludwick on the bench.

CJ - and Brad Lidge. Maybe Kyle Kendrick too!!

I don't think upgrading this bullpen is as necessary as most of you seem to think. The team is built on starting pitching. With Madson and Bastardo we have two top back of the bullpen options. Before that, we have Stutes, Lidge, Worley, Kendrick and probably even Oswalt in the postseason. Any upgrade is a good thing but not necessary at this point and not at the cost of sacrificing good young talent.

Fata: The difference is- most people have the perception that Charlie doesn't trust Ben Fran. He wouldn't have that problem- at least initially- with Ludwick.

Also, Ludwick has far more power than Ben.

Additionally, it doesn't matter if the move is exciting or not. It's whether it makes us better. Something like that package would help us this year and the next.

Lincecum goes 7 and Romo/Wilson hold this aging lineup in check again tonight for the W.

Giants troll is funny

Mainly cause he sounds exactly like most posters here

Lincecum goes through 3 pairs of Depends tonight.

Oh boy. Little Ollie just re-opened the door to the Oswalt to the pen discussion. Please Ollie - close that door quick!!

Yo, new thread!

I will not make a single move until DPatrone and Schweitzer call me back with feedback

CJ: In case you have not noticed our guys are getting older. This team is already over 30 this year and our running is showing. Only Brown and Mayberry are getting to third on singles. Injuries are happening with greater frequency. Poly, Utley, Ruiz others. Do you really want Valdez and Martinez and Schneider in the lineup every other night?
We need to transition to new blood (not old blood). I am happy to trade for a future starter not a retread of Francisco. And although I am tired of saying it, its simply a fact that 3rd Base is our weak link now and pretty soon (although I think it already is a problem) so will be catching.

pretty soon (although I think it already is a problem) so will be catching.

I'd be really interested in hearing why a 105 OPS+ catcher with an average arm and all the catcher intangible juju you could want is "already a problem".

Let's go Phillies, Beltran isn't going to make a difference. I found this site where you can answer live questions throughout the Phillies game.

what could the braves be throwing at the chisox to be close to getting quentin>

damn- with howard estates going up.. maybe he has too much on his MIND to hit with RISP...

we had timmy linoleum on the ropes,,, and we let him off!

DAMMIT- STOP SWINGING AT BALLS WAY OUT OF THE ZONE!!!!! stop letting that hippie off the hook> bahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is f'n ridiculous can this team ever make adjustments??????

Haven't we seen enough of Michael Martinez phillies fans. TERRIBLE. If Polanco not ready soon go after Aramis Ramirez and use placido as a super utility guy and say goodbye to MM.


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