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Wednesday, July 27, 2011

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Damn, that's one quick postgame thread.

This thread was like an obituary. It was written ahead of time.

Clout: You were joking about saving Mayberry for the 9th, right?

Beltran shows up and hammers Kendrick tomorrow while Lincecum shuts down the Phils which proves nothing has changed from last year and Rube realizes a move must be made.

After watching last year's NLCS and this game, I think I know who the Phils need to trade for. Anyone who hits the bejeezus out of Matt Cain. And it wouldn't hurt if he's Lincecum's nemesis, either.

Find whoever that guy is, then empty out the farm system for him, or we're going to see four games like tonight's at the very least in the next NLCS.

Anyone know who the heck hits these guys? And please don't tell me it's Carlos Beltran.

Jack: He was joking.

You can write the postgm thread for the Lincecum/Kendrick matchup right now.

Jimmy just misses throwing out a runner at first and Dom Brown misplays a ball in the air and OH CRAP THE GIANTS ARE SCARE-EEEEEE!

All the morons who keep lapping up the "we need a right-handed bat" stuff, should have watched this game tonight.

Most times against good pitching, its the LEFT-HANDED hitters who need to step up. Because MOST of the time, they are facing RH pitchers. And unless you are trading one of the lefty's in the lineup, they will need to get it done in October. No matter what panic-move RH hitter Rube just "HAS" to go and get to appease the ignorant.

And even if LOOGY's are used, you are NEVER going to hit for Utley or Howard anyway. So its not like BJ and The Bear Upton would have helped in that spot (especially since he's hitting in the .220's).

Its the LEFTY hitters that need to produce in this lineup. Cain only struck out 1, so its not like he had dominant stuff. He just let the Phils get themselves out.

Well, I don't know if Mayberry would have hit any better than Brown, but he likely wouldn't have butchered that play in right tonight. and at any rate, he could have tried to steal for Gload instead of anchoring Valdez out there.

Maybe this is why you keep a Davey Lopes. When Brown stood at first base like he was a catcher, with a don't steal sign, in the eighth, the first thing I thought was "a guy that fast should be stealing that bag." Davey Lopes turned average and below average fast guys into base stealers. Now? Not so much.

If Valdez isn't going to play, the least they should do is bring up Orr, who is a tremendous baserunner and can get you that bag in a pinch.

Will Aaron Rowand be on the team after Beltran arrives? Will he be on the postseason roster?

ESPN has some sort of formula for determining who should get the Cy Young, & right now they have Brian Wilson in 1st by a hair over Roy Halladay (Cole is 3rd). Personally, I think it's the biggest bunch of baloney I've ever read; he's probably not even among the top 5 relievers in the league this year, let alone the single best pitcher. But that's what the formula says.

Here's the p-game thread for tomorrow's game:

"Phils get beat by a hippy, but at least Kendrick drills Beltran in the ribs with a universally unforeseen 110 mph fastball."

aksmith,

Cain has traditionally struggled against the Phils.

I don't worry much about him. He's a nice above average starting pitcher. He's not a ace or someone you fear.

This is your baseball this is your baseball team against the Giants...Any questions?

Past Performance is No Guarantee of Future Results

Meh, I don't want KK to hit Beltran. I want him to hit Cody Ross on his little gnome-like face.

And yes, I realize that makes me a terrible, violent person.

All the Pirates hitters are swinging for the fences against the Braves and hitting weak fly balls instead.

It's like watching the Phils in extra innings.

The Braves and Pirates are in extra innings AGAIN?

Hot damn...

Haha, another extra inning game in Atlanta.

The Giants are the champs and they still own the Phils - nuff said so get over it and appreciate your good team while a very good team marches onward and upward!

Matt Cain isn't what Matt Cain used to be. He's been shutting the Phils down pretty good lately. And what he did three years ago isn't exactly relevant.

luis, nice reference to 'this is your brain on drugs.' and both are bs.

Di anyone notice that Pence was not in the starting lineup tonight ?

aksmith, there has never been a well-pitched game against these Phillies, only really bad offense.

Did anyone notice that Pence was not in the starting lineup tonight ?

Pirates better let the Braves win now before umps give it to them in extra innings.

CSN Bay Area says Giants will release PtB to make room for Beltran.

Braves win :(

pence was given night off due to struggles at the plate

Pence is on his way to the Braves.

rube: "ed, i hope you didn't see the game tonight"

ed: "i did. and i still want brown."

rube: "he's on the way."

From the post-game tone, Cholly seems to be souring on Dom.

For the first time, I actually think he may be traded by Sunday.

Trading Brown would bring back memories of the 60's and 70's Phillies... Trading young talent away...lol

"ESPN has some sort of formula for determining who should get the Cy Young, & right now they have Brian Wilson in 1st by a hair over Roy Halladay (Cole is 3rd). Personally, I think it's the biggest bunch of baloney I've ever read; he's probably not even among the top 5 relievers in the league this year, let alone the single best pitcher. But that's what the formula says."

Too much type about a dumb ESPN formula. Who cares?

Pat Burrell released.

Carlos Quinton will be a Phillie within the next 48 hours.

Make that 5 straight saves for Wilson vs. the Phils. Beltran in the lineup tomorrow, Lincecum on the mound, and a serries win for the Giants tomorrow night.

Then this overrated team comes out to SF in another week for their annual beatdown. 12-5 vs the Phils at AT&T Park since '07.

Doesn't anyone consider Mayberry, Jr. having a legit RH bat ?

A Giants troll?

Exciting.

I hope the Giants have road unis w/ brown pants, so as to help camouflage Timmy's ... affliction.

The people who say that the Giants are a bad match-up for the Phils have a point: they are. But in the playoffs, you're not going to find many 'good' match-ups. The Phils will either have to beat the Braves or the Giants to get to the World Series, both teams they are slightly better than but generally even with over a 7 game series.

It's the people that continually play revisionist history with what happened in the playoffs last year that are just completely a totally stupid. Ricky Bo is apparently one of them. On PGL, he said "Oh man, we haven't even seen Lincecum or Bumgarner yet?" as if they totally shut us down last year.

Well let's start with Bumgarner. In Game 5 at AT&T Park, where BAP declared the Phils "can't hit at all," they chased him out of the game in the 5th inning, scoring 4 runs off both him and Casilla. In Game 6, he pitched a few innings and managed to get out of two jams (Ben Fran K'ed with a runner on third, 1 out) he created for himself. Based on these results, we're just assuming he's going to shut us down in the playoffs?

How about Timmy? In Game 1 we scored 3 runs in 7 innings against him. Against their #1 starter, that's pretty good. Unfortunately, he out-pitched Halladay. Oh well.

In Game 5, again, 3 runs in 7 innings. What you would expect. Halladay out-pitched him and they won.

The only game the Phils got completely shut down in was Game 3, where Cain neutered the lineup for 7 innings. In Game 6- a weird, bizarre game you will only see in the playoffs (Game 4 also fits that classification)- the Phils had tons of chances to put runs on the board and couldn't capitalize once.

So we've got two games out of 6 where the Phillies got shut down. In the other four games they scored 6, 5, 4, and 3 runs.

And yet we've got people continually saying "They're gonna get COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN just like last year in the playoffs!" What f*cking series were you watching?

Then there is the fact that these same people not only want to re-write history claiming that our bats were the reason we lost not only think that the same 7-game series will play out exactly the same way again (stupid to begin with), but advocate fixing the made-up "mistake" by making a trade for a bat. There are about 5 different things wrong with that line of thinking.

Stop freaking out.

Ok, Pence is now in the Astro's lineup....Just saying

Bedrosian-

I think you might be right. And I think Dom Brown will either be in Chicago or back at AAA with Charlotte (the White Sox AAA affliate).

Matt Thornton makes sense too, but he is likely too pricey.

Aumont came back off the DL tonight and earned the save for LV.

BTW, LV is 62-43. Ryne Sandberg for Manager of the Century.

I hope that huge wad of Red Man helped calm Timmy's squirts.

I have heard Ann Landers suggest that chewing tobacco is the best way to get over a nasty case of the flu. I know it always helped Lenny Dykstra stay healthy.

Timmy probably figures mouth cancer couldn't possibly make his face any uglier than it already is. And if so, he's absolutely correct.

Iceman, absolutely correct. With the Braves and Giants both sporting terrific pitching, and Brewers not far behind (Greinke, Marcum, Gallardo, K-Rod, Axford), the Phillies will have a tough road to the WS.

Here's how I look at. Get me into the NLCS and these Phillies have more than a puncher's chance of winning. The best team doesn't always win the NLCS (2008 Phillies weren't the best NL team that year and the 2010 Giants weren't the best NL team last year). But, so long as we're there, I'll take my chances.

Where would Burrell rank as the right handed bat people think we need?

On MLBTR they indicate that the Phillies think Upton would come cheaper than Pence. I wouldn't mind him at all. I know there are definitive knocks against him but a guy who is 26 with that much talent is worth taking a risk on.

I still think we may end up with Quentin though.

Bring back Pat the Bat!!!

Few thoughts:

- Phils' corner OF with Ibanez/Brown is as bad as anybody in the NL right now. Disconcerting that in nearly 2+ seasons in RF including the minors that Brown still struggles so much to read balls off the bat. Seems like these guys either don't make a play they should or make a clear mistake almost every series.

- Poor situational hitting tonight by a few guys especially Ibanez in the 7th inning. Hate that refuses to ever shorten his swing in a situation to make contact but it is just who he is.

- Hamels outpitched Cain tonight. Too bad he only had an 'L' to show for it.

- Letting Mini Mart hit in the 8th with the tying run on 1st base when he had Francisco or Mayberry available? WTF Cholly.

NO to bringing Pat the Bat back.

I think they can get Quentin without Brown, but that's obviously just a guess. I just don't see the Phils giving him up.

Well put, Iceman. There are slightly better and slightly worse matchups but the percentages are really slim. If you play the series 100 times, how many do the slightly-better Phils win? 55? 60? 65?
Teams change relatively quickly, so you only get the play the series once. Pretty much anything can happen. Not to mention the fact that between now and the end of the year a lot can happen. We'll see what happens when they get there. No can make the argument that we don't have a good chance of making a deep playoff run.

MG -- saw it on "Gamecast". The result was a triple "WTF"? Charlie’s "hunches" are beyond infuriating.

You know what's really f'd up? Boston just tied the Phils in the loss column. Geesh,

- Yeah I 'Fear the Beard' too. More so the Giants 1-4 with Sanchez gone. Lopez simply neuters the likes of Utley/Howard/Ibanez and the duo of Romo/Wilson is as good as any in MLB right now. Plus, the Giants have a few more decent bullpen options too in Ramirez and Affledt.

I am sure somebody could find the stat somewhere, but I wonder how many 3 ball counts Mighty Mart has worked this year?

What did he see, about 6 pitches total tonight?

Burrell is at the end of the road. He probably should have just retired after the Phils WS win and called it a career then.

He hung on for a few more years and got another ring last year. And cashed some more big checks too.

Burrell and Stairs both dumped on the same day.

cut - That wasn't a hunch. It was just foolish. Mayberry/Francisco are simply better hitters than Mini Mart. Didn't get that at all.

For those that said UC sounded like he soured on Brown tonight...what did he say?

MG -- If Charlie can't follow numbers, what the he88 else is he following there but a "hunch"? Damn.

In Charlie's own words: "Yes, I think we need to get better". One thing for sure; I'm not feeling another beachslapping by this 'fing Giants team.

And another thing -- how long is Cole going to stick around with this lack of run support? Where the bleep is Ryan Howard?. Damn revisited.

Mini Mart vs LHP:

.184/.179/.211 with 0 HRs (38 ABs)

Mayberry vs LHP:

.246/.303/.492 with 3 HRs (61 ABs)

Francisco vs LHP:

.200/.299/.306 with 2 HRs (85 ABs)

beyond a 'gut call' and into 'wtf' territory.

Night all. Pray RAJ does the right thing. What that might be? I have no idea.

This board needs some Internet lithium. Last night Worley was Capt. Awesome and all was right with the world and tonight they lose a 2-1 squeaker yet it is more melancholy on here than Tea Partiers talking about the debt ceiling on RedState.

Heather-

Cholly's tone when asked about Brown, just didn't sound good. Had to hear it live, to get the full effect.

Said he something to the effect, "sure he's doing a nice job of taking pitches but the good pitches he's getting to hit, he's either late on or missing them". And that was kinda that. When Cholly is short with a response, it usually isn't good.

And nobody can like what they see from him defensively. Its almost embarrassing watching him play defense. He looks like he's getting worse out there. He is not even close to a major league defensive OF.

I think to get Quentin or Pence, that it will cost them Brown. If I am Chicago or Houston, the deal doesn't get made without him. Warts or not, he's still got a lot of upside and the POTENTIAL to be a good major league player. You don't get ranked as high as he was by as many people as he was, without having that kind of potential.

In studying up on Quentin, here is how he's done against top-level pitchers (with a couple of Brave starters thrown in for good measure):

Cain- 2-15
King Felix- 4-18 2 HR
Shields- 4-23 1 HR
Price- 2-11
Lee- 1-8
Oswalt- 3-9
Sabathia- 3-18 1 HR
Liriano- 3-13
Pavano- 0-17
Greinke- 6-24 3 HR
Weaver- 1-12
Verlander- 10-34 3 HR
Lester- 0-8
Beckett- 2-11
Tim Hudson- 3-6 2 HR
Hanson- 2-3 1 HR


Its tough to hit the really good pitchers. For about everybody. So while his bat would be nice in anyone's lineup, its not like he's done a whole lot against "playoff-level" starting pitching.

And Pence has a similar breakdown too. He's done nothing in his career against Hudson, Hanson and Jurrjins, for example. I think he's 5-24 against them combined. Lincecum has dominated him too.

"This board needs some Internet lithium"

You got that right. And some Ginkgo Biloba for memory loss. Still complaining about the offense? Sheesh.

Thanks denny. You're right, when UC starts to get short and snippy about guy's performances, that usually doesn't bode well for the guy in question.

Iceman: I can't speak for others, but when I talk about the Giants' pitching, I'm referring to not only the starters but the lights-out closer and setup men, plus a killer LOOGY who looks like he could face Utley, Howard, and Ibanez 100 times & they'd go a collective 0 for 100 against him. We scored 20 runs against them in the 6-game NLCS & we batted .216/.314/.321. That included 3 games of 3 or fewer runs -- all losses. I don't know if that qualifies as being completely shut down but, when you're scoring 3.33 runs a game over a 7-game series, there's a good chance you're going to lose 4 of those games. And,yes, I understand that the Giants only scored 19. But my point is not that these games are unwinnable; my point is that, if neither team is going to score many runs, you can essentially flip a coin to predict the outcome. Hence, our .500 record against the Giants over the last 4 years, even though the Phillies have been a much better team than the Giants during every millisecond of those 4 years.

I do agree with you on this point: bad match-ups are par for the course in the playoffs; that's why these teams made the playoffs. But I tend to think the Giants are the worst matchup of all. That doesn't mean I'm "freaking out" about playing them and it doesn't mean I share the bizarre view, occasionally posted by Luis and others, that there's no way we can win a series against them. It merely means I'd feel more confident of our chances against pretty much any other team. Considering what happened last year & how evenly they've played us over the last 4 years, I actually can't believe that's a controversal proposition. But I guess I underestimate just how tabboo it is to praise other teams on Beerleaguer.

Different subject: Pat Burrell.

I kinda wondered if he might be a casualty of the Beltran trade, since he has hardly been used lately & is essentially duplicative of Cody Ross. But I ultimately thought he'd survive simply because I just couldn't see a terrible offensive team parting with a 114 OPS+ player.

Would I take a shot on him? If we miss out on Pence and Quentin, sure, I'd take a shot for a 2-month reunion tour. He can't play defense any more but, then again, is he really any worse than Dom & Ibanez? He's also hitting only .233, but we all know he's incredibly streaky and might well be due for one of those hot stretches like he had after the Giants signed him last year. If nothing else, he gets on base & has power. That makes him a better bench hitter than Francisco & better suited than anyone else on our bench to play DH if we should get to the World Series. I'm under no illusions that Burrell is anywhere near as good as he used to be and, of course, I'd rather have Pence or Quentin. But I put the odds of getting either at decidedly less than 50-50 & Burrell, even in his present form, would still be the 2nd best offensive player among our many outfielders.

I would take PtB in a heartbeat as a sub/pitch hitter. It would certainly be cheap and he is more than capable of the big hit.

As an aside, I would take PtB not instead of a starter like Pence or Quentin or someone else they aren't actually getting, but instead of Gload.

No Beltran, No Pence, and I can't see why Quentin would be traded. Come the 31st, we will all be disappointed. Rube WILL stand pat at least offensively.

Just for some piece of mind, why the heck doesn't Charlie just stick Mayberry in right every day and see if my ulcer heals? Watching Dom try to field out there is pretty awful. I think his bat will play, but that glove is as bad as any I've ever seen. A guy as athletic as Domo should never be that bad in the outfield.

Just maybe that's the only real tweak they need in the lineup until Polanco returns (if healthy.)

How does Podsednik hit them top tier pitchers. We still have him in LHV. However he is isnt hitting all that great.

Tough loss for Cole last night, he pitched well.

The dreariness about the Giants-Phils matchup is understandable, if overstated a bit.

Tuesday night's game was one of the most fun to watch this year, with the inside the park homerun. It was great to see the Phils tee off against a mediocre pitcher from a despised rival and to witness Worley mowing em down.

But last night was reality. The Giants are playing and winning a astounding percentage of one run games, with the Phils a distant second. With the Giants' rotation, the odds are pretty good that a lot of games are going to be grinding, low scoring nail-biters. And with their pen, if they can get up a run on you going into the late innings, they're probably going to win the game.

Are the Phillies a better team overall? I believe so. But are games with the Giants going to continue to be torture? Probably, for the most part. It ain't a lot of fun seeing Utley et al neutralized, while Cody and company somehow scrape out yet another close win.

The up and down emotions of the Phans don't perhaps square with the rhythm of the long season, but they're very understandable to me.

Tough loss for Cole last night, he pitched well.

The dreariness about the Giants-Phils matchup is understandable, if overstated a bit.

Tuesday night's game was one of the most fun to watch this year, with the inside the park homerun. It was great to see the Phils tee off against a mediocre pitcher from a despised rival and to witness Worley mowing em down.

But last night was reality. The Giants are playing and winning a astounding percentage of one run games, with the Phils a distant second. With the Giants' rotation, the odds are pretty good that a lot of games are going to be grinding, low scoring nail-biters. And with their pen, if they can get up a run on you going into the late innings, they're probably going to win the game.

Are the Phillies a better team overall? I believe so. But are games with the Giants going to continue to be torture? Probably, for the most part. It ain't a lot of fun seeing Utley et al neutralized, while Cody and company somehow scrape out yet another close win.

The up and down emotions of the Phans don't perhaps square with the rhythm of the long season, but they're very understandable to me.

ha... DPatrone literally has the same exact posts every year at the trade deadline. Last year seemed more annoying though.

DPat: We all will be disappointed? Only if we all think a right handed bat is absolutely necessary for the team. I don't think we are all in agreement on that.

Brown has been making some horrible reads in the OF, however with him out of the lineup the Phils still lose 1-0. The rest of the lineup did jack against Cain. I don't understand how UC can get sour on Brown when he has been the one advocating his promotion to the bigs.

I've about had it with Brown's defense. Francisco is redundant/ useless. If we're going to park a right handed bat on teh bench to be used for the occasional pinch hit against a tough lefty, late, and/or to DH in a theoretical world series, how about taking Godzilla out of Oakland? Certainly better than Burrell.

"And I think Dom Brown will either be in Chicago or BACK AT AAA with Charlotte (the White Sox AAA affliate)"

Yes, back in AAA where he belongs.

I'm all in favor of trading any and all non-pitching prospects for the remainder of the Amaro/Manuel era in exchange for proven major league talent.

Even if the prospect in question has a shot at being something worth keeping, I have no faith in management that his transition to the majors will be handled correctly.

Domonic will find himself in AAA on a non-contending team, yet he's in the field and on the bench every other day for a team with the best record in baseball? Ridiculous! This kid should have been learning how to play the OF and working on his game at the plate, and should just now be getting ready for a late callup. Instead, he's a complete f'ing mess with Beerleaguer apologists citing nonsense sabermetrics in an argument that he's league average instead of the game-costing Lonnie Smith that he is, in the field and at the plate.

Sabermetric analysis and peripherals show that what Matt Cain did last night is impossible and thus does not count in the standings.

Sorry for the double post!

I can always tell that Dom Brown had a bad game if Will shows back up again. Dom Brown isn't going anywhere. And, if I remember correctly, Dom Brown also had 100% of the team's walks, 25% of the team hits, and 100% of the team rbi's. We lost because Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, and Carlos Ruiz couldn't get a hit or a walk.

Dom didn't have his best game, that's for sure. His misplays in the outfield arguably gave the Giants a run (or potentially both). But, the bottom line is the team didn't hit. It took a completely botched pop-up and a terrible hop to Aubrey Huff to score a run.

I couldn't really tell how Cain looked because I was sitting down the LF line. But, I imagine his location was good because they took a ton of fastballs for strikes. They're going to lose games like this every once in a while. Nothing to worry about.

The Martinez AB in the 8th is still perplexing. How do you let him hit there?

Brown had a charitable RBI on a play Huff should have made. That run was about as gift-wrapped as you can get.

Phils are going to take their lumps - good and bad - with Brown this year. Offensively he has shown a lot of improvement over last year. Yeah still struggles with the fastball but everything else has improved. Defensively, I would argue he has shown no improvement and only a little since he first moved over to RF in Reading since '09.

Now we can't count RBI's that the other team gives you?

A new statistical category.

Brown's defense is a "work in progress".

Or a trainwreck...you decide.

This morning brings another rumor that the Astros are trying to unload Wandy, Bretty and Michael Bourn.

Why the hell aren't we in on Bourn? He's exactly what we really need in this lineup. THink about having him in the 2 hole with his high average and fantastic baserunning. Think about having him in CF and Vic in RF...best defense in baseball at 2 positions suddenly.

How am I the only one that sees this???

Will, not to turn a dead horse into pulp, but do you understand how young players/prospects develop, right? Generally, they all need time to adapt to The Show. It doesn't happen overnight. Dom needs to get his feet wet and learn to play at this level. It happens to all prospects. He was/is a highly regarded prospect, not some P.O.S. that the Phils are shoving down our throat.

In my view, he has good ABs. Last night, on his BB and K, he worked the count full, fouled off pitches, laid off tough pitches, etc. That is an excellent sign for a young player -- he seems to know the strike zone. His defense leaves a little bit to be desired, I'll give you that.

He deserves time to figure it all out.

he's a complete f'ing mess with Beerleaguer apologists citing nonsense sabermetrics in an argument that he's league average instead of the game-costing Lonnie Smith that he is, in the field and at the plate..

Ha! Classic.

So Will - now your beef with Brown isn't about the player himself? It's about the current FO and coaching staff and their ability to transistion him to the Major Leagues?


I think most non-knowledgable fans have too high of expectations of rookies when they debut. Most knowledgable baseball fans know what those rookies and prospects can grow into. Players take time to develop. They don't debut in the bigs and become perennial all stars and MVP candidates (ones not named Pujols of course). Let's see what Brown can do with more than 275 career PA to his name before we pronouce him dead.

TTI - No but Huff should have made that play. Even LA said it was 'Giants chartity' that inning.

NEPP: If the package we supposedly put together for Pence wasn't enough, what makes anyone think the Astros are letting Bourne go for a reasonable price?

Trading Brown would bring back memories of the 60's and 70's Phillies... Trading young talent away...lol

Other then the Jenkins/Phillips for Jackson/Buhl in the mid-60s, what other young talent trades did the Phils make in those two decades that you can cite?
Are you still smarting from the Dick Ruthven/Alan Bannister trade for Jim Kaat?

I am in Fatalotti's camp with saying the offense is fine, and that we will be okay for a legitimate WFC run without any adjustments to the lineup. That being said, it is insanely frustrating to watch this team not be able to hit to the situation. Case in point is Ibanez' at bat in the 7th, he just looked like a fool out there swinging at 4 balls. Also I understand why Jimmy bunted, but honestly, with MM behind you, J-roll should've tried to get a hit, and then used cliff lee to bunt or something since god knows martinez can't get one down

The RBI still counts. Can't it count and be "gift-wrapped"?

NEPP - I would love to see Bourn here in CF and hitting No. 2 in this lineup. It wouldn't give them power but it gives them a huge OBP boost, a real SB threat at the top of the order, and makes this team strong defensively again.

Ouch, I committed one of my own pet peeves: Other THAN ...

All rookies should be like Willie Mays in their debuts (gold glove defense & a 120 OPS+ at Age 20)

Right?

Why isnt Dom Brown as good as Willie!?!?

*** If the package we supposedly put together for Pence wasn't enough, what makes anyone think the Astros are letting Bourne go for a reasonable price?***

Because with Pence, Wade had all of the leverage, with these 3 he MUST make a deal to cut payroll because he needs to keep Pence now. And none of the 3 are the face of the franchise. The price should be significantly lower.

Also, if Bourn ever came to Philadelphia, he should be hitting number 1 in this lineup, and Jimmy should be hitting sixth or seventh.

Then again, with Jimmy hitting number 1 and Bourn hitting number 2, chances are Bourn will act as a leadoff hitter anyway, just with one out on him as he steps up to the plate.

The Rollins bunt was stupid.

Slow runner at first, Martinez on deck, and two lefties behind him.

"The Rollins bunt was stupid.

Slow runner at first, Martinez on deck, and two lefties behind him."

The bunt was stupid only because Valdez apparently didn't know about it and couldn't get a good start.

But after that, Rollins had every right to assume UC would lift Martinez for a PH, and Utley has historically hit lefties very well.

***Also, if Bourn ever came to Philadelphia, he should be hitting number 1 in this lineup, and Jimmy should be hitting sixth or seventh.***

I said 2nd because I've accepted the fact that Jimmy could be here until his Age 45 season and still batting leadoff.

"Because with Pence, Wade had all of the leverage, with these 3 he MUST make a deal to cut payroll because he needs to keep Pence now. And none of the 3 are the face of the franchise. The price should be significantly lower."

That's the way a rational human being would act. Then again, a rational human being would realize Pence is nothing more than an above average player, and he'll be a FA before the Astros are competitive again, so to get the best package he can for Pence right now.

Long way of saying, if Bourn's availability and reasonable price tag depend on Ed Wade's logic, reason, and a fair evaluation of his club and the talent it posesses, I'm not holding my breath.

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