In just four innings of work, Cliff Lee surrendered five earned on 10 hits en route to his seventh loss of the season, a 5-4 defeat at the hands of the Padres.
This was Lee’s shortest start since going 3 1-3 innings against the Braves on April 8. He allowed four runs on four hits in the second frame, making an uncharacteristic mental error in the process. With runners on the corners, Lee took his time throwing over to first base, and the lax pace of the pickoff move allowed Chris Denorfia to steal home. Chase Headley hammered Lee’s next pitch over the head of Shane Victorino for an RBI double to give the Padres a 4-1 lead.
The offense was unable to string many hits together, and Victorino and Raul Ibanez finished the game as the only Phils with multiple knocks. In his sixth game since returning from the DL, Victorino bagged a pair of doubles and a triple, including an RBI two-bagger in the first.
Notes: Brad Lidge made his 2011 debut in style, contributing a perfect seventh inning. He struck out one and threw seven of 11 pitches for strikes. ... Mike Adams would probably look pretty good in red. The right-handed reliever, who has been mentioned as a possible deadline acquisition for the Phils, tossed a scoreless eighth. He threw 10 strikes in 12 pitches, striking out Chase Utley and Ryan Howard in dominant fashion. Serious command, outstanding slider. … The loss marks just the third time this season that the Phils have scored three or more runs with Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay or Cole Hamels on the mound, and failed to register a victory. The team is now 38-3 in such games.
Next up: Vance Worley (6-1, 2.02) will take on Tim Lincecum (8-8, 2.90) and the first-place Giants tomorrow at Citizens Bank Park.
Tim Lincecum is a piker
Posted by: Jbird | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:31 PM
Worley v. Lincecum? Concede. Now.
Posted by: Matt | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:31 PM
Disappointing -loss esp - given they ran themselves out of rally in the 1st inning
Rollins s/learn how to bunt ( 7 or 8th inning)
how many RISP did we have anyway?
Posted by: phillynotinnyc | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:33 PM
No mention of Lidge's perfect inning, and instead mention of Mike Adams?
Interesting...
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:43 PM
Small sample size, but from what I've seen thus far, the word "concede" does not really seem to be part of Vannimal's vocab.
Posted by: Bob | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:44 PM
Why is a guy batting .302 with a .376 OBP batting 5th, and a guy batting .230 with a .273 OBP batting 2nd?
Posted by: Dickie Thon | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:52 PM
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
#Phillies interested in #Rockies' Giambi. Could be August deal. Good LH bat for bench - and poss DH if Phils make WS. #tradedeadline #MLB
Love it. He'll hit at least one big homer for us in the playoffs.
Posted by: baker | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:56 PM
Wonder if the Phils will see Beltran in a Giants' uniform this series?
Posted by: MG | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 04:56 PM
I bet Worley wins tomorrow
Posted by: Get Rube A Beer | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:02 PM
Wonder if the Giants will see Beltran in a Phils uniform this series?
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:04 PM
Yeah, the Martinez batting second thing has completely worn out its welcome. I like the guy, but he shouldn't be getting ABs at the top of the lineup.
Posted by: Iceman | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:05 PM
Why count out Worley tomorrow? He won't be facing any All-Star offense. I see now reason he can't go seven and give up one or two runs.
Posted by: Little Ollie | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:05 PM
I bet Worley and Kendrick win and Hamels loses.
Posted by: Dickie Thon | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:11 PM
I really like the Giambi rumor. He'd be a great upgrade over Gload on the bench
Posted by: NEPp | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:35 PM
"Yeah, the Martinez batting second thing has completely worn out its welcome"
Why? Because they lost today?
re:Worley is actually facing the Giants lineup, which Lincecum is only part of.
Posted by: Old Phan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:41 PM
Chances are Mini has seen his best MLB days. Just when he was starting to get some love.
Posted by: jr | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:52 PM
Mini Mart goes 0-4 and BLers want to demote him to 7th in the batting order. How should the order be?
JRoll
Utley
Vic
Howard
Ibanez
Dom Brown
Mini Mart
Chooch
Pitcher
Posted by: Lake Fred | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:53 PM
Matt, if you're suggesting that the Giants concede, you'd be hard pressed to find a fan in SF who'd agree with you...I mean, Timmy will find his game eventually. He might just be able to match the Vanimal pitch for pitch and then it'd be anyone's game.
Posted by: bigmyc | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:53 PM
"Why? Because they lost today?"
No, because even if you win 25-0, batting a guy with a line of .230/.278/.328 2nd is idiotic. And, of course, that batting line is inflated by his recent hot streak. I think Mini-Mart actually projects to be worse than that going forward.
I'm glad we got what we got out of Mini-Mart the last couple weeks. That was awesome to see, and great for the team. But no way in the world do I want him hitting 2nd. It just makes no sense.
Posted by: Jack | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 05:55 PM
I was happy for Lidge today, and happy for the Phillies/fans. Great to see him do well.
At least the Phils put up some kind of fight, got some hits & runs. Not Lee's finest outing. Happy to win 3/4, however.
Posted by: GBrettfan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:00 PM
Jack, word!
mini-mart is a UT player. That's it. Time for Charlie to "tweak" the lineup.
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:01 PM
The thing that is so frustrating about a game like today's, is that it was a winnable game, and they seemed to do everything in their power NOT to win.
Bad baserunning, mental mistakes and poor situational hitting contributed to the loss.
Oh well...I have tix for Vanimal/Lincecum.
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:04 PM
True, having MM batting 2nd in the last week really killed the team.
I always forget that results don't matter.
Posted by: Old Phan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:09 PM
Old Phan: Seriously?
Posted by: Jack | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:11 PM
OP, it's a well acknowledged phenomenon that even blind squirrels can sniff out nuts once in a while.
And in baseball, even mediocre players can get hot for short stretches and look like world beaters.
But there is a reason they are considered mediocre players, and in mini-mart's specific case, a reason he never made an MLB team until this season:
Usually, it's because they cannot sustain a high level of performance for any sustained period.
Charlie got a lot out of mini-mart the last 2 weeks, and that's great - it's been good for the team.
But I cannot fathom why you, and many others here on this site, cannot grasp the concept that mini-mart is not capable of sustaining his excellent performance the last several games.
He'll regress. Count on it.
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:17 PM
'Turd' Starts:
'Turd' - A start where the starter gives up at least 5+ ER
Halladay - 1
Hamels - 2
Lee - 4
Other notable NL starters:
Kershaw - 3
Jurrjens - 1
Karstens - 1
Lincecum - 2
Hanson - 1
Cain - 4
J. Garcia - 2
Posted by: MG | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:24 PM
My bet is that Mini Mart has shown enough offense the past ~2 weeks to have a legit shot to be considered their utility INF next year.
Basically as long as he ends up at .220-.230 with around a ~.600 OPS while continuing to play strong defense, he likely will be looked at a cost-effective alternative as the utility infield who will cost the league minimum.
Posted by: MG | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:35 PM
MG, "turd starts"....love it!
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:38 PM
It doesn't surprise me that Lee has the most Turd starts.
Posted by: Old Phan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:40 PM
MG: I'm hoping we only carry 1 utility infielder next year instead of the 3 or 4 we started the year with. That with a power bat off the bench who can play some 3b should be all that's needed.
Posted by: Jbird | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:53 PM
Lee will have periods like this. He's had them almost every year. And the year he really didn't, he won the Cy Young.
Minimart shouldn't be hitting second? Of course Vic should be hitting second. That's the best lineup, and it was the best lineup even when Polanco was healthy. Doesn't seem to have made much difference. I'm trying to remember if the former MVP ahead of Mini got any hits today and I can't seem to recall any.
Why the double standard? Martinez has been playing well. He had a stinker at the plate and a brain fart in the field today. And Brown made a poor play in right, Raul has a rag arm in left, and Sammy made a mistake as the third base coach. It happens. But singling out Martinez on a day like this makes little sense. If Cliff Lee didn't stink today, the Phillies win. I'll take Lee on my team any day. And I'll suffer through Martinez hitting second just like I did Polanco. Because this team really doesn't have a number 5 hitter unless it's your best 2 hitter.
Posted by: aksmith | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 06:57 PM
Giambi~love to have him. Big LH bat of the bench ala Matt Stairs, but I do hope he waits 'til August.
But that doesn't lesson the need for someone RH. I understand Pence is a long-shot and Beltran is a rental. If they don't work out, fine.
But this is what Rube should be concentrating on if he isn't already. Maybe he can pry someone we're not even thinking about loose.
Posted by: DPatrone | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:05 PM
If Mayberry is going to sit on the bench, he's the righthanded bat. And I would love to have Giambi, but that means Gload has to go on the DL or simply be inactive in the playoffs.
If Polanco comes back before rosters expand, I'd sure love to see Ben Fran sent down and Mayberry kept up. But I doubt Rube will see it that way.
Posted by: aksmith | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:08 PM
I'd love to see Giambi DH in the World Series, instead of some combination of Gload, Ibanez, Francisco and Mayberry.
Posted by: brad | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:19 PM
MG, Lee has been very good this season, but looking at the "Turd Start" numbers you provide for us reminds me of something Ken Rosenthal said before the 2010 season after Lee had been traded to Seattle.
To parapharase, he said that the Phillies were counting on a rebound from Cole Hamels, and that if Cole 'did' rebound from his bad 2009 (which he did), that "Cole Hamels 'is' Cliff Lee [in performance].
Since May of last year Ken Rosenthal has been correct.
Cole Hamels has been as good as Cliff Lee. While Lee walks less and K's about the same number, he gives up more hits which results in almost identical performance.
Here's a cursory look:
Cliff: 352.2 IP, 3.19 ERA, 1.061 WHIP, 6.77 K/BB, 8.29 K/9, 1.22 BB/9, 8.32 H/9
Cole: 322.1 IP, 2.65 ERA, 1.055 WHIP, 3.86 K/BB, 8.63 K/9, 2.23 BB/9, 7.26 H/9
If the ERA gets adjusted for the fact that Lee pitched in the AL in 2010, then their results have been nearly the same.
Lee does have more IP, which adds a bit to his value.
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:32 PM
"I owe my entry into the Hall of Fame to Bruntlett"
Posted by: Pat Gillick | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:43 PM
Francisco to the Mariners for a bag of fungo bats and a toaster oven.
Posted by: basil fomeen | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:50 PM
Throw in a bunch of coffee and it's a deal.
Posted by: Old Phan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 07:51 PM
I suspect that Seattle may balk at that offer. Have you seen the price of fungo bats???
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:10 PM
aksmith: Mini-Mart = Polanco?
Posted by: clout | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:17 PM
If posters on BL realized that a season is 162 games long, the number of posts here would drop by 95%.
Posted by: clout | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:18 PM
Would we be paying the shipping on the fungo bats or would Seattle have to pick up the tab?
That would probably be a sticking point.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:22 PM
MG: I'm curious. How many games does someone have to play to show that he has "strong defense"? 10? 15?
Given that even the inventors of advanced defensive stats like UZR say they need to be viewed in 3-season increments, I'm curious what you think.
Posted by: clout | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:23 PM
Do think Kenny Williams would be willing to eat a good portion of Alex Rios money?
Posted by: pb | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:24 PM
clout, the answer we're looking for is 43 games....43 games.
That's a well known fact for defensive ratings.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:26 PM
Would that be the same Alex Rios who currently has a .553 OPS?
He could pay his entire salary AND get zero in return from us and I'd still be leery of wasting a roster spot on him.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:32 PM
Do you think Joe Blanton would be willing to eat a good portion of Alex Rios' money (or anything else that Alez Rios owns)?
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:35 PM
"If posters on BL realized that a season is 162 games long, the number of posts here would drop by 95%."
Same if posters realized games were 9 innings.
Posted by: Old Phan | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:36 PM
If you wrapped Alex Rios in bacon, you'd probably have no issues with Blanton eating him.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:43 PM
aksmith: Mini-Mart = Polanco?
Posted by: clout | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:17 PM
Well, since Martinez has been starting at third base, it's a pretty close contest. Remove Polanco's April of blessed memory and I have to wonder which one is better going forward. Of course, were Polanco healthy, there's no question he's better. But if he comes back as the Polanco of the last few months, then I'd rather have Martinez. Pick your popgun poison.
You think Polanco has been any good since his hot start?
Posted by: aksmith | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:44 PM
I'd rather we trade for a 3B at that point...but then I'm weird.
I'd like another bullpen arm too but either way, I dont think we NEED a corner OF bat that badly.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:46 PM
Maybe we should start the Michael Young Rumor Machine up again? I'll go get the gas can.
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:47 PM
I doubt Giambi makes it unclaimed to the Phillies in August. Plenty of potential teams willing to pay his meager salary.
If the Phillies want him they will need to trade before July 31. He is redundant to Gload who is a pretty good PH, but would be an option at $1M for next season in the same role.
Posted by: PhxPhilly | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:50 PM
Giambi>>>>>>Gload
Its not even a close call. Giambi is by far the better hitter.
.612 OPS vs .993 OPS
Gload is DFAed if we get him.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:53 PM
Prediction: Phils' big deadline addition will be Carlos Quentin. You heard it here first.
Posted by: ghost in the machine | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:56 PM
NEPP - Yeah, I'd rather pick up another third baseman and send Martinez back to utility guy, but as long as they add the best bat they can, regardless of position, I'll be happy.
I don't think anyone can complain about what Martinez has given them since starting. The only question is whether he can keep it up. Completely unknown.
Posted by: aksmith | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:58 PM
I know you don't make a move specifically to plan for one POTENTIAL series, but Giambi is actually a legitimate DH, too. Not the "which bench guy should we call a DH and just bat him 8/9?" strategy that we've historically used. Just a bonus is all.
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:58 PM
How can they get Quentin if Chicago is still in the pennant race? And they continue to be.
Posted by: aksmith | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:58 PM
Per MLBTradeRumors, Kenny Williams is seriously debating blowing up the White Sox unless they have a great week. Thus, Quentin could become available. He supposedly already has deals in place to move some of his big names in that scenario.
Also, the White Sox apparently scouted our system last week...so maybe there's something to it.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 09:04 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/white-sox-could-turn-over-the-entire-roster.html
Here you go.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 09:06 PM
Get back Gavin Floyd.
Posted by: basil fomeen | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 09:10 PM
"I don't think anyone can complain about what Martinez has given them since starting. The only question is whether he can keep it up. Completely unknown."
aksmith, he can't and won't.
I love what he's done. It's good for the team. But I'm under no illusion as to what he could do over an extended period of time.
You shouldn't be either.
Posted by: awh | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 09:11 PM
Just a fantastic write-up:
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2011/7/25/2291849/the-phillies-dont-need-a-righthanded-bat
Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 09:19 PM
Could've just stopped writing after paragraph 6.
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:18 PM
I'll go get the gas can.
Posted by: Willard Preacher | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 08:47 PM
willard, where do you have to go these days to find Geoff Geary?
Posted by: craig_one | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:24 PM
Does anyone else find the K zone on ESPN extremely annoying?
Posted by: whitey | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Good go in heaven, the Rangers are absolutely demolishing the Twins. 18-1 at the moment.
Also, Braves are losing.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:35 PM
The more the Twins lose, the more likely guys like Cuddyer and Thome become available.
That's good news for us.
I find everything about ESPN annoying.
Posted by: NEPP | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:37 PM
Hey, I just realized I haven't seen Joe Morgan this year.
Another reason to feel good about the season so far.
Posted by: phargo | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:42 PM
I wouldn't mind it if it was off to the side. Its right on the friggin plate...It makes it video gameish.
Posted by: whitey | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:44 PM
If the ChiSox want to sell stuff for cheap, think they'd sell us a tank?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=vicied001day
Posted by: Andy | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 10:49 PM
Braves had bases loaded with one out and got nothing. 3-0 Pirates going into the 7th.
Great job by the Braves trading for Alex Gonzalez, he of the career .292 OBP. He has a (and I couldn't believe this) 4.9% walk rate (only 4% this year), a career 18.2% K rate (22.2% this year). Only saving grace is that when he makes contact, he does hit a good amount of line drives.
Still, most likely a very poor trade by the Braves. They'd really like this player on their roster:
BB%: 11.1%
K%: 11.6%
.305/.384/.445
133 wRC+
This player? Yunel Escobar
Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 11:27 PM
New thread.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, July 25, 2011 at 11:28 PM