Late last night, there was a report from CSNBayArea.com that Pat Burrell was going to be released by the Giants to make room for the newly acquired Carlos Beltran. As it turned out, Burrell will not be cut, according to Giants GM Brian Sabean.Of course when the news broke, there was speculation that the Phillies could be interested in bringing back the veteran outfielder. But alas, it appears that if Burrell is going to add to his legendary World Series numbers (1-for-27, 16 Ks) it's going to have to come in a Giants uniform.
Fan reaction to the possible acquisition of Pat the Bat:
"Burrell is at the end of the road. He probably should have just retired after the Phils WS win and called it a career then. He hung on for a few more years and got another ring last year. And cashed some more big checks too." -denny b.
"Would I take a shot on him? If we miss out on Pence and Quentin, sure, I'd take a shot for a 2-month reunion tour. He can't play defense any more but, then again, is he really any worse than Dom & Ibanez? He's also hitting only .233, but we all know he's incredibly streaky and might well be due for one of those hot stretches like he had after the Giants signed him last year. If nothing else, he gets on base & has power. That makes him a better bench hitter than Francisco & better suited than anyone else on our bench to play DH if we should get to the World Series. I'm under no illusions that Burrell is anywhere near as good as he used to be and, of course, I'd rather have Pence or Quentin. But I put the odds of getting either at decidedly less than 50-50 & Burrell, even in his present form, would still be the 2nd best offensive player among our many outfielders." -bay_area_phan
As much as I love Pat, I wouldn't want him. I didn't want the Phils to re-sign him, I didn't want to get him when the Rays let him go and I don't want him now (if he was available, of course).
At this point in his career, what would he bring to the table that Mayberry doesn't? Worse defense? That's not a reason to pick him up.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM
So we are getting close to the annual Charlie should be fired discussion right?
I'll get a cake to commemorate the 5 year anniversary of this Beerleaguer meme.
Sign up for what you'd like to bring to the anniversary party.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:17 AM
Carlos Quentin, Carlos Quentin, PtB, Carlos Quentin
Posted by: Rauls grandpa | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:18 AM
TTI, do you think Manuel made a mistake by leaving Martinez in to hit in the 8th last night?
Posted by: Fatalotti | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:20 AM
"...is he really any worse than Dom..."
b-a-p: Since you're not known for hyperbole, I'll have to answer you seriously. Yes. Yes he is.
Posted by: Andy | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:24 AM
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I find all of the false rumors and stories reported in the media to be nothing but annoying. Do any of these guys know what's really going on?
Posted by: Old Phan | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:24 AM
Fata: Didn't see the game so I don't know what Charlie saw that made him think Martinez was the right move there. My instinctual feeling is that it wasn't right to bat Martinez but that's not based off any empirical evidence in the game at hand.
Besides, whether it was the right move or not it will be extrapolated into, "Charlie is a dummy who doesn't deserve to manage the team anymore." It happens every year, hence calling it a meme now.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:25 AM
TTI, I'll bring the whine and cheese.
Posted by: Old Phan | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:26 AM
Fatty - Of course he made a mistake. It's always much better to take guys out and rest them for the post-season.
Old Phan - The reason they have a trading deadline in the first place is so we can have rampant speculation and unfounded rumors. It's baseball, by garsh.
Posted by: Andy | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:26 AM
TTI - Fire Cholly thing is dumb every time it gets brought up over a suspect move.
Was it a boneheaded move to not PH for Mini Mart last year? Absolutely.
No entirely separate issues.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:29 AM
"Sign up for what you'd like to bring to the anniversary party."
Champagne, of course.
We saw Charlie in the hotel restaurant when we went to San Diego for Easter this year. He looks a lot better in person- slimmer and healthier.
This non sequitur brought to you by...
Posted by: phargo | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:31 AM
Return of PtB? No.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:31 AM
I never ever ever advocated for the firing of Charlie..ever. Still don't. All I griped about was the poor move to bat Martinez last night.
Andy, not sure what your post means or is in reference to. Sorry.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:31 AM
Old Phan,
At this time of year all you get is rumors until they happen or dissolve. A rumor by definition has no definitive basis of being right or wrong, it's speculation, so "false rumors" don't really exist. If a rumor was true it wouldn't be a rumor it would be fact. This is nothing new at the trade deadline, there's constant smoke.
Posted by: Emmett | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:33 AM
Fat - It was a poor move on a couple of accounts. It happens.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:33 AM
The only thing that scares more more than not getting a right handed bat is having Brown in the outfield for the next 4 years. He is going to bring a lot less value next year. Then again I wouldnt trade him for BJ "Uppity" Upton and his 240 average and baggage.
Posted by: Tim | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:33 AM
TTI: I don't want Charlie fired.
Don't see what's wrong with saying it was a terrible move to leave Mini-Mart in to bat last night. Just awful.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:36 AM
"If a rumor was true it wouldn't be a rumor it would be fact."
That just blew my mind.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:36 AM
Jack: There is a line here. A bad decision is a bad decision. I get that. Even the best managers make them over the course of a 162 game season.
But Charlie's mistakes always find a way to become a cause for firing Charlie around here. I'm just heading that off at the pass.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:39 AM
1st Beltran, now Fukudome off the table.
Posted by: Jbird | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM
Do I think Cholly makes at least one real boneheaded decision late this year in a playoff game?
Yes, yes I do.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:41 AM
TTI: As I said, I don't think Charlie should be fired.
He better not make dumb decisions like that in the playoffs, though. It's just inexplicable not to bat Mayberry for Mini-Mart there. You can't give away opportunities like that in October.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:41 AM
I wonder if Mayberry not being used there had anything to do with him getting picked off 2nd base last night.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:47 AM
"A rumor by definition has no definitive basis of being right or wrong"
Not necessarily. If someone last season had heard a rumor that the Phils were signing Roy Halladay, it would have been based on information that was correct. If someone heard a rumor that the Yankees wanted to trade CC Sabathia for Martinez...OK, bad example, but why report that?
Last night it was reported that the Giants dropped PtB, but it was obviously incorrect and someone didn't bother finding out if it was true.
I understand that sports media need to fill the 24 hour news cycle with information, true or false, and I get that it's doesn't bother most people.
Posted by: Old Phan | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:47 AM
Brown's defense harkens back to the days of The Bull. That is not a comforting thought.
Posted by: basil fomeen | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:48 AM
I hope Brown can make as good of a pulled pork sandwich then.
Brown will make a great LF when we finally get a real defender in RF.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:50 AM
With all the talk of the Phils needing a RH bat, anybody else breathing a sigh of relief that they didn't throw money at Werth with his .215 average, 11 homers and 100+ strikeouts this year? Or do you think he'd faired better in Philly where he wouldn't have been expected to carry the team?
Posted by: Von Haze | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:50 AM
***I wonder if Mayberry not being used there had anything to do with him getting picked off 2nd base last night.***
I doubt it but there IS a rumor that the Nats are trying to trade for him and sign him to a 7 year deal so who knows...
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:51 AM
Fukudome...Really? JBird, who cares about Fuk-U-Do-Me?
Posted by: Get Rube A Beer | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:52 AM
TTI: I want Charlie fired. I have every year since '06. In fact, I was disappointed when he was hired in the first place. I've said it every year and I'll continue to do so. It's not based on one move here or there. My opinion is that he is a terrible tactical manager and he should be replaced by someone who understands how to manage.
My reasons have been written time and time again on this site with varying degrees of specificity and depth, so I will not bore you by rehashing them all..
It is interesting, though, that you say that "Charlies mistakes always find a way to become a cause for firing Charlie around here," after posts explaining that we always talk about firing Charlie. If each mistake brings up "fire Charlie," and "fire Charlie" is so constant that it's become a meme, aren't those a lot of mistakes? Odd coincidence, no?
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:52 AM
Brown will get better in the field...count on that
Posted by: Get Rube A Beer | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:54 AM
I like UC as a manager. I think he was one of the bigger reasons we won in 08 and we've been such a "go-to" destination among players the last several years. The team LOVES playing for him and playing in Philly. That counts far more to me than the occasional blown gut decision.
If you guys want a Tony LaRussa strategist mentality, you're welcome to it but I'd much rather keep UC.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM
Old Phan: Emmett's point is that it would've been just as easy at the time to say "I hate all these false rumors about Halladay going to the Phillies."
This gets into metaphysical questions of whether there is such thing as "objective truth", but my general feelings is that if you can't know whether statement A is true until after event B takes place, then statement A cannot be true at any time before event B takes place.
Which is Emmett's point: rumors are rumors. You can't say "I hate all the false rumors," when you have no idea which ones are false until after the fact.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, Jack.
Posted by: Old Phan | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:01 AM
***Brown will get better in the field...count on that***
He almost certainly will. He's got a good arm and good speed. However, I doubt he'll ever be a plus defender as he simply has no clue on how to read a flyball. Like pitch recognition, that type of thing is almost something you either have or dont have, its very tough to teach.
Offensively, I think he's shown a TON of promise and I think his bat will be better than we all initially thought. I honestly think he'll be a .300 hitter in his prime. His pitch recognition and plate discipline are fantastic. He's only swinging at 28% of pitches outside the zone this year. He's barely striking out and he's walking at a very healthy pace (best BB% on the team actually for guys with 200 PA). His swinging strike rate is also very solid. His approach is basically Jayson Werth with a far better SO%. He fouls off a ton of balls and he'll eventually start driving those fastballs that he's just missing on right now.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM
I like Charlie as a manager for all the re3asons that NEPP states above. I just don't understand why he can't avoid such boneheaded blunders as last night. That's not even like advanced baseball right there. That's pretty simplistic. You are down to your last 5 outs remaining against a TOUGH bullpen, facing a lefty that will not get replaced if you bring in a power RHB, you have a fast runner on first who could take advantage of any XBH...and you leave your worst hitter on the team in the game??
Posted by: Fatalotti | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM
Yeah what Jack said. I just deleted something that was way more confusing that what he explained.
Some rumors hold more weight than others, yes, but by definition a rumor is generally something that is unclear as to whether it will come to fruition or fade. So regardless if the rumor happens it's still been heard and it's still a true rumor, it can never be false because you can only become false when it is proven wrong which is only after it happens, so in the meantime it's always true. You could say a rumor is true everytime because it is true, you are hearing "a rumor" and you are processing it as something that could happen.
Posted by: Emmett | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:07 AM
Old Phan: No problem. Anytime you wanna be enlightened, I'd be happy to help out, and I'm sure Emmett would too. He's a deep cat.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:11 AM
NEPP - I agree with your 11:05 post, except for "he'll eventually start driving those fastballs that he's just missing on right now."
I sure hope you're right about that. But my level of confidence is not high.
Posted by: Bonehead | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:12 AM
When I think about PtB patented "lay off" swing when he pulls back 9 inches and misses the ball and the classic "watch the 3rd strike" move and his concrete feet, I don't miss him.
Posted by: Rauls grandpa | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:14 AM
NEPP: Agree 100% with your 11:05. Brown will be good. His strike zone judgment seems to be good, especially for his age and time in MLB. He has some pop in his bat and he'll figure it out with more ABs.
Patience.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:14 AM
This "rumor" talk, while exhilarating, is giving me a headache.
I love it!
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:16 AM
According to Jon Heyman the Phillies are officially out on Hunter Pence. The last team in are the Braves.
I wonder if the Braves would move Heyward to center and play Pence in right, or if they move Prado out of the starting line-up and put Pence in left.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:16 AM
So the Phils need a right-handed bat, huh. For what? If the rest of the offense continues to waste at bats against playoff level pitching, a right handed bat won't mean squat. I'm also tired of watching a lack of fundamental abilities in the newer players on the team.
Based solely on observation, not on any sabermetrics, I see the level of professional baseball play in the field and on the base paths deteriorated. Players taking bad routes to balls, turning singles into doubles by trying things they aren't capable of.
Why do we have some players who don't know how to bunt, don't know how to steal, and worst of all, assume an out. The lack of effort on the Dom Brown play is well known. Victorino should have been on third on that dropped pop up. Is WIlson Valdez the best baserunner to be found on our bench? No disrespect to Wilson, but some of the pitchers are probably faster.
The 2008 Phillies won with good hitting, good baserunning and stellar defense. I don't see the same level of play in baserunning and defense with this team.
In this information age, much more data and video is available to players... and coaches... than every before. This team's junior members really miss Davey Lopes and all the knowledge he imparted. The coaches aren't informing the players. Only players like Utley and Rollins have enough baseball knowledge to use it. Do I expect every player to have that level of baseball savey? In a word, yes.
Posted by: templin | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Tweet says Lincecum tonight.
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:17 AM
I'd like a RH hitter and another LOOGY but we don't have a manager who believes in using those kind of parts in the traditional way anyway.
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:19 AM
I would assume that McLouth is a bench guy if Pence goes to the Braves...with Heyward in CF.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:20 AM
GRAB: I was being sarcastic.
Posted by: Jbird | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:21 AM
Lincecum v. Kendrick?
Doesn't look good for the Phils tonight.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:22 AM
NEPP, flyball recognition is something that can be taught although not completely. My only concern is that he may have "Jeff Stone" IQ and can't grasp certain fundamentals. That is only speculation after seeing him make some Stonish misplays in the field and basepaths. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't played baseball all that long and might just need additional seasoning. I'd like to see him work on it this offseason as much as Ryan Howard worked on his defense and hope to see similar improvements.
Posted by: whitey | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:23 AM
NEPP: Yeah I forgot about McLouth. Not sure who I thought played center for them anymore.
It would definitely make the Braves more formidable come playoff team but as someone mentioned yesterday- it's not like any match-up will be a good one come playoff time.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:24 AM
"Old Phan: No problem. Anytime you wanna be enlightened, I'd be happy to help out"
Now THAT was funny!
Posted by: Old Phan | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Feels like a win.
Posted by: whitey | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:26 AM
"Brown will get better in the field...count on that"
He could hardly get worse.
Tonight? Godzilla vs. Bambi
Posted by: phargo | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:27 AM
Multiple source rumors are rumors that are supported by multiple sources.
Posted by: Meyer | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:28 AM
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Both Philly.com (Jim Salisbury) and MLBTradeRumors (Jim Salisbury) told me that we're gonna trade Dom Brown for Hunter Pence.
Multiple Sources FTW!
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Obviously the pitching match up favors SF tonight, but we all know Kendrick is capable of pitching effectively, especially against a line up like SF has. Plus timmy hasnt been as dominant as the last couple years. For some reason it feels like a win tonight.
Posted by: Mego | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 11:57 AM
The Phillies have been cursed since they let Pat go...the Progressively got worse and his Giants won the WS out of no where...we need Pat the Bat back!
Posted by: DavezMental.com | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 02:27 PM
matt stairs came over for a comeback tour and won an LCS game for us with a huge homer against LA. That was an exciting moment. Old washed up home run "swingers" are stuff of philly legend, from greg l in the 70s to Incy in the 90s to stairs in the 00s.
Posted by: austin | Thursday, July 28, 2011 at 10:15 PM