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Saturday, July 30, 2011


Good to finally see our full lineup together. Took us long enough to call Pence up from AA.

BL Debbie-downers at it once again. Whining because Pence isn't the best outfielder in the league.

Here's what matters. The best team in baseball just improved their defense and their lineup considerably.

For god's sake, stop whining and enjoy the best period in the history of rooting for the Phillies.

Posted by: Phlipper | Saturday, July 30, 2011 at 05:18 PM

Phlipper at it again. ATtacking an argument/sentiment that no one made.

I think it's awful how this team has treated it's top prospect. Up and down between the majors and triple A, despite the fact that he has proven himself to be a better player than some of the veterans who nonetheless get to keep their jobs!

I am talking, of course, about Andrew Carpenter!

Domonic Brown optioned, and not Ben Fransisco? Hmm...

Domonic Brown optioned, and not John Mayberry. Hmm squared...

philwynk: You'd choose Francisco over Mayberry?

Hmmm cubed.

Francisco/ valdez will be gone once Oswalt comes back. They couldnt let Brown sit on the bench and rot without trying to get him to improve defensively. He will be back in Sept or earlier if something happens to Ibanez

Fatalotti: "But for the sake of the bet, and so that youhave something to berate me about later, I'll say that Hunter Pence's OPS+ as a Phillie won't be any higher than his career OPS+ of 117 right now.

Fair enough?"

You got it. BTW, I like your 3:56 post.

Ok, I think I get it.

DBrown optioned instead of Mayberry because Mayberry is a decent RH bat off the bench, and appears to be ready for the Majors. Today, he's a better outfielder than Brown.

DBrown optioned instead of Fransisco because they want Brown to play everyday rather than ride the bench.

K, I think I can live with this. (Like I have a choice.) But I still don't see Fransisco as worth just about anything.

It also freezes Brown's service time and allows him to work on being a LF (his new permanent position) its probably for the best that he does that up until 31 Aug when he is almost certainly recalled to be eligible for the playoffs.

Clout asks "You'd choose Francisco over Mayberry?"

Clout, I have an IQ over 140 and training in logic and philosophy, and I can't imagine the sequence of thoughts that led you from my queries to that conclusion.

You get the last word. I'm not going to answer you.

What is the new lineup? Vic 2nd, Pence 5th, Raul 6th Polly 7?

Most importantly, what's his new number going to be? I doubt they'll give him Brown's 9, and I doubt he'd choose 99, since he's not So Taguchi. I'm gonna go with 5.

Dom Brown was sent down to work on his swing. Sarge has said that Brown's swing is too long. Cholly has also said that Brown needs to learn how to get around on the ball. It should be obvious to those watching him hit that he is late in his swing and fouls off a lot of pitches he should hit. As a result, he is not driving the ball as he should. When we are this far into the season, and Brown's homerun total looks like Marco Scutaro, something is wrong. Brown's future depends on fixing this prolem, so a trip down to the minors is just what is needed. Let's hope it works.

Bringing up a position player is much tougher when you are trying to win a world series than when you are building for the future. Dom will be back in a month so shud uppa you face!

@philwynk - I actually had the same thought at clout. When you said "Hmmm squared" to optioning Brown over Mayberry versus just a "hmmm" to optioning Brown over Francisco, that means that you were more perplexed that they'd keep Mayberry versus Francisco when sending someone down. Hence clout's comment.

Oh and I had a 150+ IQ when I was tested in 5th grade. Then I went to college and drank too much and killed all my brain cells. True story.


I, too, have many leather-bound books.

Pence will wear #3

Not that anyone cares, but I basically positive on Pence, because he makes the team better for the next two years - before Howard's terminal decline, Roy's likely departure, and the Saint's failed knee transplant. If they win a WS once in 2011, 2012, or 2013, the deal will feel worth it. In 2014, we all know the team is going to have serious problems - and cosart/singleton wouldn't have made of a difference.

Posters who talk about overpayment/treatment of Dom are aware of these facts, but it hurts to think about them seriously. The 2014 Phillies are going to be the 2010 Mets.

Since we're talking about Pence's uniform, I life high socks but Pence looks like a doofus in his. He Pulls them up too high or his pants are too long. He looks like a mountie.

I can't help wonder what the team will do in 2019. Hope I'm alive to find out.

philwynk -
I have a 267 IQ and am skipping school most of the time.

Oh, and I talk with fairies.

Pence's scrappiness quotient is really high.

Not necessarily a good thing. The high socks annoy the crap out of me.

philwynk: You obviously forgot what you wrote. I'll remind you:

Domonic Brown optioned, and not Ben Fransisco? Hmm...

Domonic Brown optioned, and not John Mayberry. Hmm squared...

Posted by: philwynk | Saturday, July 30, 2011 at 05:34 PM

dlhunter - I hope that your (old) screen name is not predictive of an injury.

Anyone who's really worried about 2013, 14, or later needs to get a grip. We have no idea what this team will look like at that point.

Who looks more of a doofus: Pence with high socks or Timmy L. with his girly hair?

Like Old Phan, I am worried about 2019. But I fear 2022 even more, though 2026 is looking kind of good.

Isn't the world supposed to end in 2012 anyway? I say Biddle and Colvin for Bell!

chris - pence is too tall to be scrappy. he can be gutsy or gritty, but that's about it.

I wonder which McDonald we'll see tonight - the one who channeled Steve Blass against us on June 5th, or the one who has baffled the Reds and Braves in his last two starts.

dlhunter should change his screen name to:


Happy to have Pence, and can live with Ibanez over Brown for the rest of the season, but I still want a lefty reliever. Perez does not belong on a playoff roster.

Andy - it's not even close...Tiny Tim looks absolutely ridiculous. And I don't think he showers. Ever.

I'm down with the high socks.

And Chris in Vermont: Not to mention "Stupidface" Wilson.

Lincecum has probably looked like that all his life. Wilson's beard is a stupid marketing thing.

I have not seen many girls with hair like that.

Perez causes every sphincter to clench at once. It's painful.

Marketing?? Have I missed out on some mad endorsement deals Valdez has landed?? Maybe a new Norelco commercial where Swisher and Papelbon put aside their differences long enough to hold down Valdez and shave him??

Oh, I thought you meant Wilson Valdez. I'd pay big bucks to see someone hold down THAT Wilson and shave him. Can't stand that guy...

Decent point, my (ancient) screen name is now eerily suggestive of a bad fate for Mr. Pence.

Should I just change my name to "Digging Raul's Grave"?

Scott - by marketing, I mean Wilson just wants to be recognized. Hence the beard. But there in the Bay Area, there are a coue tv ads based on his beard

Spitz - Yeah, gotcha. I was slow on the draw there. Brian Wilson is nothing but an Attention Whore.

MiniMart wants to pull his socks up as high as Pence's; but then you won't see him at all.

Maybe they prefer Francisco and Mayberry as outfielders because they actually catch the balls they get to after taking the shortest routes to them.

Well, maybe all that hmm squared means is a second hmm for the Brown < Mayberry move, which, multiplied by the first hmm = hmm squared. But yes, clout's reading is a reasonable one.

I'm high on Pence and so are his socks.

I'm also down with TL's hair. Makes him look like he'd fit right in here:

He also, sort of, brings to mind this guy:

Ah, baseball's golden era.

And I could not care less about Tim's hair but the Beard is scary. Perhaps he hides stuff in there a la Gaylord Perry. However, if Joe had a beard like that, you would see cheesesteaks fall out if he shook his head.

Nice one, OP.

"Brian Wilson is nothing but an Attention Whore." Maybe so, but "Pet Sounds" remains a clasic.

"Lincecum has probably looked like that all his life. Wilson's beard is a stupid marketing thing."

A spot-on observation.

What is this IQ everyone is talking about? I'm sick and tired of the Sabremetricians ruining baseball!

I don't actually mind Lincecum's hair, either. That blond fella with the Prince Valiant is worse. Pitcher. Cannot for the life of me bring his name to mind, it'll come to me in a sec...

"Pet Sounds" remains a classic."
You got that right!

Can someone explain to me why we continue to be linked to lefty hitting first basemen like Thome or Giambi - wuldn't it make more sense to get a righty bat who can play infield like wigginton or a reliever, preferably a lefty reliever. Is it just that we are looking for someone who can pop one in a close game?

Knowing that Houston is looking at a list from Lakewood for the last PTBN, I see some I wouldn't mind parting with (Hewitt, Altherr, Barnes, Duran, Schoenberger), but several as well that'd be kind of a shame not to have in the system any more (Lisa Bonilla, for instance, Domingo Santana and Rupp, and, of course, Biddle). I'd love to be a fly looking over Ed Wade's shoulder as he pores through the list.

Bronson Arroyo.

Had cornrows at one point, too. Not fly on a white guy.

I'm betting Wade'll take Zach Collier, Garret Claypool or Lisalberto Bonilla.

I'm predicting that the Phils will all take the field tonight with Pence-esque socks, Lincecum or McBride hair, and Rolly-Fingers moustaches.

Anyone watching the Cards/Cubs game on Fox? Opinion on the take out slide at second?

Pet Sounds didn't just have a high ceiling, it was a true number 1. And continues to be.

MS69: Didn't see it, but I sure hope Buster Posey didn't get hurt.

I live in New Orleans and work in Houston. I've followed Pence over his career. He's a real solid player. I'd rather have Pence than Werth.

The bad thing is that BL has devalued certain stats. Pence's .300 BA is worthless as is his 62 RBIs, another worthless stat on a hapless (although they do have a Happ) team. His above average fielding ability should make us forget about Brown and BenFran, though.

Buster Posey isn't injured, you know. He just doesn't want to be on the same team with Wilson's beard and Timmy's hair.

"Anyone watching the Cards/Cubs game on Fox? Opinion on the take out slide at second?"

Holliday did it, so it was wrong.

Thank you, Andy.

MS69 - should have been interference - way out of baseline and past bag. Castro lucky he didn't get hurt, you see his sick from Holliday's cleets

mlbbowman Mark Bowman
#Braves players getting anxious too. Some say Upton is the best fit. A few like Bourn. All polled said they want a reliever.

Per Jayson Stark:
"• The Phillies took on so little (just $200,000) of Pence's salary that they have flexibility to deal for a low-budget bullpen arm or a home run threat off the bench. They continue to talk to Colorado about Jason Giambi. And they even asked the Twins about Jim Thome, but the Twins would like to hang onto Thome until he hits his 600th homer."

I would love to have Thome so let's hope he hits 4 tonight.

Thome quickly became one of my all-time favorite Phillies during his time here, and I'm sure Charlie would love to have him back, but I'd be surprised if it happens before the deadline.

slocs - Braves players getting obnoxious. Some say whining is the perfect state of mind. A few like carping. All polled said they want to gripe.

It looked like interference to me but I will admit to not really knowing the rules in that instance. McCarver defending it over and over also had me leaning toward interference.

the picture of Madison Bumgarner on is one of the scarier pictures of a pitcher I've ever seen. Just frightening.

He definitely looks "Mad Bum"-esque. The look says, "I'm going to strike you out, then eat your spleen."

I think John Cleese used to make that face quite a bit.

It would be nice if they could add another veteran corner infielder (with some pop) in August. Somebody like a Ty Wigginton, for example.

Then they could dump either Valdez or Mini Mart off the playoff roster.

I am sure they'll go with a 6 man playoff bench. Gload, Schneider, Valdez/Mini Mart, Brown, Mayberry and the veteran August trade addition.

I don't think they need a bullpen arm at all. Unless somebody gets hurt in the next few weeks, I think they are in fine shape in the pen. Especially if Big Truck gets back.

One problem with this Cholly lineup...Utley and Howard back-to-back, then Pence and then Ibanez. Bring in the LOOGY to face Utley and Howard, then pitch around Pence and go after Ibanez. Still are making it pretty easy on the opposing manager.

The best lineup for this team and specifically for this team against ATL or SF, is Utley 2nd, Pence 3rd, Vic 5th.

I am not sure why this is so hard to figure out. The new Cholly lineup is still very vulnerable to late inning LOOGY's. And that shouldn't be the case with the personnel he now has.

Goddamnit Bake, Don't scare me like that.

From the last thread . . .

Jack: Re wOBA & the Dom-Ibanez comparison . . . My problem with wOBA is that, while I understand what the stat is trying to do, the actual formula is fairly convoluted. I have no doubt that there are good explanations for the specific percentages assigned to each particular outcome. But, even if there are good explanations, it's hard for me to shake the belief that a formula this complicated is probably over-valuing certain offensive outcomes & under-valuing others.

Also wOBA doesn't account for the spot in the batting order where the batter is hitting. Ibanez & Brown bat near the bottom of the order, where I would submit that the ability to drive in runs is of more value than the ability to get on base & likely be stranded.

With Pence and Polanco this lineup feels so much longer.

Yes! That's it! Thanks, Scott.

Denny B, regarding Utley vs. lefties, I think this is salient:

Career stats:

Utley vs. RHP: .894
Utley vs. LHP: .891
Utley vs. RHSP: .897
Utley vs. LHSP: .884**

**vs Starter batting splits are for the entire game when the starter was LH or RH. These splits include any subsequent PA's against a reliever regardless of their throwing hand. These splits are a proxy for platoon splits for seasons we lack play-by-play data.

Point being, he has good numbers against LH pitching, and the numbers against LH starters are actually lower than his numbers against LH pitching overall. Even though that number against LH starter is diluted a bit by probably facing a few RHP later in the game, it shows that Utley has posted nearly identical numbers for his career against every manner of pitching he's faced, regardless of handedness or role.


Someone had to do it.

tbag says pence is a .300 lifetime hitter. the mythologizing has begun.

And what's with this team all of the sudden being healthy?

Yeah, I know Oswalt's not back, but with Lee pitching, obviously that doesn't affect us tonight.

you can't bring up IQ on beerleaguer because the other 50 percent rely on IQ+ as the only reliable metric.

bullit, in CBP, not in general.

bullit, I think he claimed that Pence is a lifetime hitter at CBP...which he is.

*lifetime .300 hitter*

Presumably the Pirates are making a playoff push. So, given what sounds like Ciriaco's crappy minor-league numbers, why put him in the lineup now? Am I missing something?

sorry guys. thanks for the correction. and of course, i love pence's high socks.

Brown would have kept McCutchen at 2nd base.

Uh.........that was incredible!!!

Brown would have caught that.


J-Roll on fire.

Rollins MVP.

Mini Mart would have cut that ball off.

At the very least, I hope they platoon Ibanez/Mayberry. I'm not holding my breath, though.

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