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Friday, July 29, 2011


Pence simply isn't that great. He's not worth the price they're asking.

If we get him, I'm ok with it, because he's better than Ibanez and Brown (though they'll be wasting half the value of the acquisition by reaplcing Brown in the lineup instead of Raul). But my guess is we'll be significantly overpaying in terms of prospects.

Move on to Upton or a BP piece. Pence isn't worth that much...and this is coming from someone who argues pretty strongly in favor of dealing young pitching prospects for proven veterans.

Supposedly the Rays are being far more reasonable in their requests for Upton. Hopefully this works out like the Doc/Lee saga at the 09 deadline and Amaro moves on.

"basil, don't forget we refused to trade Howard and Brown for anyone"

Uh, no. We offered Howard to the Pirates for Kip Wells or was it Kris Benson? Howard was on the block.

Drabek was off the table at one point, but obviously was put back on. Might have been just been a building him up strategy.

Just say no. I would rather see a Ludwick/Adams deal for several reasons. Hell, even a deal for Quentin is one I would rather see made.

Amaro has paid a king ransom's in some deals but it was for players who made a real difference. If this were Kemp, yeah you might consider it. Not for Pence.

Does everyone realize that Upton has 5 more HRs than Pence on the season?

Yeah, I say go for Upton...He isn't as consistant as Pence but he is good and won't gut your farm system

Jon Heyman
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
There's a sense out there that if #phillies sub domonic brown for singleton and include cosart they might land pence. #tradedeadline

Don't do it, Rube.

I wonder how much of this is Wade/Other GMs planting things with their favorite writers to put pressure on RAJ/Braves post-Beltran deal.

If we give up Brown, Cosart and another prospect for Pence, Ruben is an idiot.

Giants gave up ONE prospect for Beltran (and one rated behind Brown and Cosart going into this year, I believe). Why would we give up 3 for Pence, including Dom Brown?

Pence had an unsustainable BABIP in the first half of the season, and regressed.

could Rube be playing Jedi mind tricks with Atlanta, driving up their price while negotiating secretly with Tampa?

Don't trade Brown! Go after Upton!

"Uh, no. We offered Howard to the Pirates for Kip Wells or was it Kris Benson? Howard was on the block."

bed Beard, I missed that one (not my day), but I do remember Howard being referred to as "untouchable" at one point. I know these things are always fluid, though. Imagine if the Pirates had accepted that trade...

If Amaro trades Brown in this deal, he should be fired immediately. Go to Upton for crying out loud!

I'd only give up Brown in a deal with Cosart and other prospects if it netted someone much better than Hunter Pence.

These talks are so ridiculous now, that they have to be complete fabrications by the sports writers. There's no other logical explanation.

As last night's show communicated very well its 3rd base that is the problem not the outfield.

I would give the proposed package up for one player, and that would be Matt Kemp, but the Dodgers can't trade anyone due to legal matters.

I do it if it is Cosart and Singleton and that is all, but even that is a steep price.

RK, why? What's wrong with Polanco?

Is Polanco coming back Saturday? I read that he's "pain free," but when is he scheduled to come off the DL?

For a package of Dom Brown, Singleton, Cosart, May, and whatever else, I expect Upton back. And I mean Justin Upton, not B.J.

Polanco is having problems making that long throw he is aging there is no way he will be able to play this position full time going forward let alone next year.

Brown will be the best hitter on this team by 2013. book it.

I wonder if Rube is using the media to alter the Braves plans, and to make them overpay? He is way too smart to do this deal for Pence, who I happen to like, but there is no way in hell he is worth that haul.

Don't know if this was already posted, but yet another person stating the obvious, that the Phils CAN'T trade Brown for Pence.

I don't know anyone who actually thinks the Phils should trade Brown, except for the woefully ignorant Philly sportswriters. But everyone seems to think a large portion of the fanbase wants to trade Brown for Pence.

Can we just get Aramis Ramirez? That would be ideal, really.

Chris in VT, the yokels I hear calling into WIP think Mayberry is going to have a better career than Brown, which is grounds for a pretty good insanity defense.

If the media is reporting correctly, RAJ is having tunnel vision of Pence which is just silly. Sure, he's a great player and I'd love to get him for a reasonable package, but after the Astros say Singleton + Cosart isn't enough? I put the phone down and tell them to give me a call back if they decide to get real.

Why is Amaro still negotiating with Wade at this point? Pence is not a white whale.

off topic (well, this is never really off topic here), but...

Howard is having a brutal year vs. lefties, as we all know. to wit:

BB% 6.7
SLG% .317
ISO .081
wOBA .279

cherry on top:

BABIP .330

historically, he's been off and on vs. lefties. he's had a few pretty good years off of southpaws, particularly 2007 (16 HR's .351 wOBA) and 2010 (12 HR's .358 wOBA). i wonder what is going on with him this year???

Upton's hitting in the .220's right? And strikes out all the time. And is a turd.

Why would anyone on a good team want him? What is he going to do for this team? We already have a strikeout king hitting 4th. Are you gonna put 2 guys who can't make contact and are hitting under .250 in the middle of the lineup?

Either get Pence or Quentin or move on. Nobody else is worth it.

Has the media been right about Amaro's moves yet in the last few seasons? So I guess there's hope he does something not even related.

"Chris in VT, the yokels I hear calling into WIP think Mayberry is going to have a better career than Brown, which is grounds for a pretty good insanity defense."

I think at this point, with the tweaks in his swing, Mayberry should be given a realistic look at a full-time job.

I daresay he would be more valuable than Ibanez as a full-time player at this point in their careers.

Of course, that would never happen...

including Brown in a deal for Pence would be a Pyrrhic victory.

Chris: and Will Schweitzer or however you spell his last name.

BJ Upton please. he's got 24 more hits on the road, 10hrs on the road vs 6 in tampa, 26 more rbi's, .279 vs .179 avg, .843 vs .562 OPS.

get him the hell out of tampa and he's the guy the phils need.

defense, speed on the basepaths and power.

"Chris in VT, the yokels I hear calling into WIP think Mayberry is going to have a better career than Brown, which is grounds for a pretty good insanity defense."

Even better, the idiot on the morning show has labeled Worley "untouchable" but would trade Brown for Pence in a heartbeat.

Heather: Aramis Ramirez would be ideal but no one is listening.

"Upton's hitting in the .220's right? And strikes out all the time. And is a turd."

There's SOME indication the Trop might be killing him offensively (home/road splits are massive) but yeah. I more or less agree with you.

Raul Ibanez has an OPS of about 800 over his last 75 or so games.

Just thought I'd remind everyone...

I am still in the "Brown is not ready for prime time and probably won't ever be as great as most think" group but you can't trade him and cosart for Pence; just not a good deal. Get Upton more cheaply or trade Singleton and somebody for Quentin. I also would rather see Adams as an option to having to pay a ransom to keep Mad Dog after the season.

The statue formerly known as Raul Ibanez needs to have an OPS of 800 to even approach being an average player, given his abysmal defense and Bengie Molina-esque baserunning.

"I would give the proposed package up for one player, and that would be Matt Kemp, but the Dodgers can't trade anyone due to legal matters. "

They're talking to teams about trading Kuroda, and are apparently "open for business". Obviously, Kemp won't come cheap.

I don't think Brown has shown anything to tell anyone he's going to be a great major league player. If anything, the more you see him the more you start to wonder.

He's not changed his swing. He's not improved in the OF. He's not improved on the bases. He still has big trouble on high fastballs. His mental mistakes are still baffling. And now he's basically being platooned in RF with Mayberry, because he's no threat against LHP.

He's taking more pitches and has gotten more selective. That's about all the improvement you see.

He's basically the exact same player he was last year at this time when he first came up. Very raw and flawed. The lack of progression in the past year has to worry those in the organization.

The question now has to be, does he ever become more then what he is? And if you are wondering if he will, is it better to just sell now before his stock plummets?

And BTW, as an ALL-AROUND player, Mayberry is a better baseball player then Brown right now. So those callers on WIP aren't that far off their rocker. Doesn't mean he won't be 2 years from now. Doesn't mean he will be either though.

Heather: Fangraphs pegs Ibanez as 0.4 runs above average as a baserunner this season. He's not fast, but he's at least an average baserunner.

He's terrible in the field, but plays left field, so his defense is minimized.

But I get irrational hatred, it's always present on Beerleaguer.

And BTW, I am not in the "Trade Dom" camp. I still think patience with him might be the best course. And if you could get him, Pence, Vic and Mayberry as your 2012 OF, it would be ideal.

But to say I have been blown away with Brown's production and overall skill level in the past year, would be a lie. He's not shown as much as I thought he would.

F hunter and Astros wayyyyy to much for a ave rf at this time. Work with rays and get the man I have been saying for months and get a bp pc

Yo, new thread.

I have more faith in Amaro than I do Twitter.

I appreciate all the work those guys do, but I dont let their stories/angles shape my thoughts on how/what Ruben is thinking about doing.

Can we get Bourne back for cheaper? He seems to have come into his own. However he has no power but we need hits.

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