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Friday, July 29, 2011

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speechless.

If true, this is disgusting and heart-breaking.

Buster Olney's "speculations" aren't worth a cushion full of stale beer farts.

Fire Ruben Amaro!

if they dont want brown, why trade him..

they are phools - if they do...

Do not want.

If this is what happens, then I am going to be disappointed. I don't know what the future holds for Brown, Cosart, or Singleton, but if people whose careers are built on scouting baseball players are to be believed (at least those who publicize those decisions), this seems to be a massive overpay for a player who is no superstar. They should have gone all-in on Beltran if they were going to mortgage the future like this.

Swindled.

This isn't happening.

I still don't believe it.

Ruben.

Walk Away.

Just. Walk. Away.

Where is Rod Serling to sum all this up

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The only reason to do that is if you are getting multiple pieces back (Adams? Bourn?) AND really believe that Brown absolutely will not improve. (and again, Brown has outhit Pence over the last 4 weeks)

I don't buy it. And why would they risk them flipping Brown to the Braves?

***That team could be the Yankees or the Braves***

If that happens, Ruben should be fired, castrated and then beaten with a rubber hose.

Since graduating from the University of Delaware in 2001, I've been a partial season ticket holder with the Phillies for years. This year, my father and I each had purchased 18 tickets to see them play.

If this deal happens, this is probably the final year I'm willing to pay to see them play. I won't give up on the team, but they'll become something I listen to on the radio while I do other things.

This is absolutely decimating the future for a good but not great outfielder who's looking for some regression due to extremely high BABIP.

I will not pay to see the product they'll have on the field in 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2015 if they sell the farm for Hunter freaking Pence.

The Rays want less for BJ Upton. And to see Brown killing the Phillies in 2 years wearing an Atlanta uniform? I would absolutely refuse to watch those games.

If I'm the braves, I pay the Astros to make this happen.

I won't believe this one is true until it happens. Too ridiculous.

To elaborate, if the Phillies traded for Hunter Pence today, they'd have the best record in the National League.

If they did nothing today, they'd have the best record in the National League.

WHY is RAJ looking to make such a desperate move?

Rube was quoted as saying, "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"

In response to his reasoning on pursuing Hunter Pence so hard.

I will not pay to see the product they'll have on the field in 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2015 if they sell the farm for Hunter freaking Pence.

What seats do you have? I'll take them in a heartbeat. Have fun sulking.

Brown ending up with the Braves would be icing on the crap cake this deal is becoming.

this has got to be a joke.

Maybe if we ask nicely, we can toss in Utley to also be flipped to the Braves.

The Braves? That's funny. It's pretty much the only thing that could make the (rumored) deal worse.

NEPP- I'd tell you to get back on the ledge, but if the third team involved is the Braves, I might be joining you out there for a drink and a Valium.

Still need actual proof.

I just threw up in my mouth.

As many have said before.

Brown for Halladay... no way.
Brown for Lee... no way.
Brown for Oswalt... no way.

Brown for Hunter Pence... pull trigger.

Braves weren't going to top the Singleton, Cosart offer. So the next thing you do is toss in Brown? doesn't make sense. No way it's true.

NEPP re: Moby Dick: ha!

the phillies are becoming the yankees - that is NOT a compliment.

if they pull this trade off as is... they are NUTS

I would be very, very surprised if that's the trade. I'm guessing another significant Astros player or prospect would have to be in the deal.

And, yes, I know every Phillies prospect is an All-Star in waiting to the Moronocracy. But that seems steep given that a lesser package could get Quentin.

Ha. Herman Neppville.

How does the money work, I wonder, when you toss away your cheap RF and replace him with the same salary you were going to recover from letting Raul walk?

What's the over/under on Brown having a better OPS+ than Pence next year?

I'd say its 50/50 to be honest.

If I'm Rube, I say take Singleton and Cosart for Pence or go PH*CK yourself

I'm not going to be a world is falling type person like James there and seriously Matt I'll split his tickets with you.

But consider this- if those tweets are correct, we are considering essentially giving the Braves Brown and Heyward for their corner outfield spots for the next 10 years, with some great young pitching and Brian McCann and Freddi Freeman.

That is not the window closing. That is someone breaking into your house, boarding up your windows and holding you hostage in the house for years.

James doesn't want to see Halladay, Lee, or Hamels pitch. Or Utley, Howard, Rollins, Victorino, etc.

Watch that door on your way out, buddy.

So, from now on, when I say RAJ is a moron, I can point to this deal and everyone will shut up and agree.

Sigh. If this is the deal that goes goes through, they could've given up less and gotten Beltran, who (shh) is better than Pence.

> What seats do you have? I'll take them in a heartbeat. Have fun sulking.

Section 145, right in front of Harry K's. They'll be worth pennies on the dollar of the ticket price by 2015 when CBP is empty and all the band-wagon fans who are demanding Hunter Pence at any cost have moved on to the Eagles/Flyers/Sixers/whoever is doing well that season.

HUNTER PENCE IS WHITE > BROWN IS BLACK

THATS WHY I WANT TO SPEND APPROX 23 M OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS ON HIM.

HE'S GRITTY, HARDWORKING, UNLIKE THE BLACK GUY.

//sarcastic racist rant

I hear the Astros wanted Mini-Mart instead of Brown but Rube said "Mini-Mart is untouchable".

I started the drink part of the deal already.

Heather, what would be the point of stating the obvious. IF this goes down AND Dom becomes a Brave, everyone will already know he's a moron.

Domonic brown is IN the lineup according rotoinfo.

If any of that is true, I will be severely disappointed in Rube. That deal is horrendous.

Absolutely horrendous.

Please, this is the right move. A LOT to give up but prospects come and go, no matter how "talented". Over the next 3 years the Phillies will be good with contracts expiring and their $$$ they will continue to be good.

NEPP: I'll take that bet.

Brown is in tonight's lineup...FOR NOW.

Wait that has Kendrick as pitcher, so that can;t be right.

If this happens, it will be proof that RAJ is incompetent. I am 100% serious.

I love the fact everybody was initially rationalizing this and saying, "Oh, RAJ wouldn't really be so dumb to give up Cosart and Singleton..." and now he's included Brown!

Awesome.

Shawn stole They Call Him King Of The Bigot's thunder.

That wasn't very nice Shawn.

Jonathan Singleton is a first baseman who hasn't been able to get comfortable playing in the outfield. Like him, can't use him.

Cosart is a high quality pitcher still - at best - two or three seasons away from the majors. Like him, would love to have him, would like to win this year.

Domonic Brown is a clumsy outfielder and while he's shown growing patience at the plate is a left handed hitter on a left handed heavy team and probably needs another season at least in the minors before he can be an impact player. Highly touted, sure; but, so was Jeff Stone.

Pence is an instant upgrade. Is it a high price? Yes. But, does he give you a better chance to win now? YES. That's all that matters.

JSalisburyCSN Jim Salisbury
Phils lineup: Rollins, Brown, Utley, howard, Vic, ibanez, Ruiz, Valdez 3b, Halladay

Brown 2nd, Valdez last. finally

Heather, if this trade goes down as rumored, then yes, I will concede Rube is a rube.

Greg, whose lineup?

'Please, this is the right move. A LOT to give up but prospects come and go, no matter how "talented". '

Yeah. Good thing we didn't give up those no talent prospects like Utley, Howard, Cole Hamels, and Jimmy Rollins for some proven big leaguers.

***Sigh. If this is the deal that goes goes through, they could've given up less and gotten Beltran, who (shh) is better than Pence.***

Cosart (eqivalent of Wheeler) for 2 months of Beltran or Brown, Singleton and Cosart for 2.3 years of Pence?


I'd go with the former rather than the latter.

No worries NEPP, I'm sure Gillies will be ready to take over LF next year.

I can't believe this. I think it smells like BS.

Veritas, you've already moved on in the "stages of grief" from shock to rationalization. Bravo.

Valdez in the starting lineup for Mini-Mart? That can only mean one thing. It's Mini-Mart who is being traded for Pence.

Cosart and Singleton is too much for Pence. 1 top flight pitching prospect (cosart), a replacement OF to take Pence's place (mayberry), and 1 second tier prospect (ie. de fratus or altherr) would be the most I can see paying for Hunter Pence.

This deal actually beats the Freddie Garcia one.

***Jonathan Singleton is a first baseman who hasn't been able to get comfortable playing in the outfield. Like him, can't use him.***

Similar reasoning: I have a Ferrari and its January in VT...as I cant drive it, I should give it away for a shiny nickel.

NEPP - 100% agree. Beltran is the better player - now. And, if the goal is to win now, who cares if you can control Pence's movement (it isn't a matter of cost control because you are still subject to an escalating arbitration process)?

But that seems steep given that a lesser package could get Quentin.

Correct. So what is Rube thinking/doing?

I really hope this all turns out to be BS when the smoke clears. I really don't want Brown included in that deal unless it nets something much better than Pence (or other good players).

Remember when we almost traded Ryan Howard to the Pirates for Oliver Perez...because he was blocked by Thome? Only to have the Pirates REJECT the offer?

Maybe Wade will still say no and we'll be saved again.

The people basically saying Brown is nothing and they should trade him for Pence are dummies.

With the right deal for Pence you can help your team this year and through 2013. Trading him now is really mortgaging a guy that still has the potential to be a very good hitter at the major league level.

Remember when this deal wasn't done yet and it is still speculation? In 2009 did anyone think we would be acquiring Cliff Lee for prospects not named Drabek, Taylor, or Brown?

Clout: I'd be willing to bet that Brown puts up a better wOBA than Pence next year. You?

Even funnier: Letting Hamels walk in 2013 because we cant afford to pay him AND Pence.

Since "people" are talking about a third team, what if this trade also included getting Mike Adams? I'd feel a lot better. One can dream.

According to Heyman the Astros want pitching. Give them all the baby aces for all I care. By the time Lee, Halladay and Hamels deals are up we will have 3 more pitching prospects. Do not give up on a 23 year old talent.

***Since "people" are talking about a third team, what if this trade also included getting Mike Adams? I'd feel a lot better. One can dream.***

Still a massive overpay.

Veritas1325 = RAJ?

This rumor smells pretty bad. I have to think that Ruben is toying media and possibly the 'Stros to manipulate the trade market to hurt the Braves and any other potential buyers. I would be shocked if this comes to fruition. If it were Mayberry or even Jiwan James rather than Brown, I might have believed it.

If I'm the White Sox sitting 2 games out in the loss column despite the fact that Rios & Dunn haven't hit a lick, I'm not moving Quentin.

If it's Brown, Cosart and Singleton for Pence, Heyward, and Venters, I'm all for it.

All this is smoke to disguise us giving them Worley, Cosart and Singleton and then saying "At least we managed to keep Brown" as if the trade still wasn't ridiculously lopsided.

I'll believe it when I see it. If the Astros don't want Dom it's because they caught his defensive "highlights" from the last week or so. Seriously, if they don't want him why is he included. They really don't like any of the other baby aces?

Highly touted, sure; but, so was Jeff Stone.

Stone was "highly touted" because
1. he hit .362 in a partial season as a rookie. Before then he was interesting but not really highly touted. I remember the buzz that Stone, Samuel and Hayes would steal 200 bases amongst themselves; they stole 89.

2. the Phils had nothing in the farm system
3. it was an era where super fast, lousy players were highly prized (think Omar Moreno)

Phil Smiles - hope you are right...

If I'm the Dodgers sitting 13.5 games out and broke and I hear Brown, Singleton, & Cosart are available; I put in a call to my new best friend Ruben Amaro offer Kemp and a bullpen piece like Guerrier.

If this happens, it means that the Phils coaches / top brass have REALLY been disappointed in what they've seen from Brown this season. From our vantage point as fans that seems wildly impatient for a rookie who has struggled but shown promise, but maybe there's behind the scenes stuff we don't know about? Not trying to start rumors, but the only way Brown for Pence makes sense is if Brown has had poor work ethic and attitude and hasnt responded to coaching, or something like that.

the goal is not to win now. the goal is to win every year.

Heh, if you type a less than sign, the word gap and a greater than sign, you get a blank line.
I was trying to indicate there was a gap between my #1 reason and reasons #2 and #3 above.
File that under very useless information!

This summary is based on a mislead, I think, tweet. It said the deal was Singleton and Cosart and a third guy that the Stros deemed insufficient, at which point the Phils said they might include Brown. I don't think that meant Brown as that third player, however. No effing way they went from Trevor May to Dom Brown.

Now...there have since been reports of him going to a third team, with prospects going to the Stros and/or Phils. In that case, I'd have to think we get back more than Pence.

Heather, Utley and Rollins were not on World Series contending teams when they first came up; maybe they would have been traded if they were. Howard was on the trading block multiple times and Thome's injury is the only reason he's still here. Hamels was the pitching centerpiece of an up and coming team. That's why none of those guys were traded.

I don't have a hard time believing that Pence will outproduce Brown next year. Maybe by as much 2 wins. The question is, given the Phillies's expected position on the win curve (between 92 and 99 with Brown), is it really worth forfeiting a cheap and potentially quite tremendous player for a mere two wins?

I'm all in. I don't mind selling the future as long as Doc gets his ring now. For me, it's about Doc getting a ring.

I bet we could get Andre Ethier for less than this...at least he's got a very solid track record as a very good hitter (career 125 OPS+ and a 133 OPS+ since the start of the 08 season)

Occam's Razor tells me this deal isn't happening.

It doesn't pass the smell test--the much more likely scenario is that its just gamesmanship and random rumors. There's simply no way the Phillies would be reluctant to part with Cosart (only) for Beltran, but are willing to give up Brown, Singleton and Cosart for Pence. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I might slit my wrists with Occam's Razor if this deal goes through...or slit Rube's wrists.

What keeps getting lost in this is not the valuation of our prospects as opposed to others, but the talent of what we would be getting in return.

Pence is not worth three top prospects. I hate to break it to those who want Pence, but he's not.

Brown, Cosart and Singleton are top prospects, as rated by BA and Sickels. They are not B-Level prospects, regardless of what anyone says. Other teams may not value them as highly, but they are not pieces of junk that are a creation of Phillies fans/media due to incessant hype. But, even if they never make MLB, they hold value RIGHT NOW.

Looking at the market NOW, the three top prospects in question hold more value than Hunter Pence, a known commodity. A lot more, if you ask me.

Just. Say. No.

Remember how you felt in the hours leading up to the Cliff Lee signing last December?

Yeah, this is almost the opposite of that.

This is all an evil prank by none other than (cue sinister laugh) Will Schweitzer.

Smells fishy to me. If this is the deal, I will eat my shirt.

Chris: OK, I'll play that game: I'm willing to bet Pence puts up a better AVG than Brown, you?

Obviously these guys are very different players and each has his strengths and weaknesses.

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