Part of

« Saturday chat: Cole takes aim at 10th win tonight | Main | Weekend wrap: A solution for struggling offense? »

Sunday, June 26, 2011


It dumbfounds me how deaf, dumb and blind this team this is about continuing to run Raul Ibanez out there over and over and over.

RSB - and Charlie's options are...???

I'd rather see Martinez, to tell you the truth. At least he looks like an athlete out there, and he's just about as dangerous with the bat these days. And I'd much rather see Mayberry against a lefty, as flawed as he is, but we all know it's far more important to use that roster space on Danys Baez.

RSB -- As only his "Whiteness" could say:

Hard to believe, Harry.

RSB - i hear ya, but that's a different discussion. charlie can only play who is on the roster. as for martinez, you may be the only phillies fan who would rather see him than ANYONE else currently on the roster, including Raul.

I know Martinez sucks, and I'd get tired of him real fast. But Ibanez is like watching an old-timer's game. His skills are so far gone it's a joke.

If this lineup scores a run against Outman, it'll be a major upset.

And it' a pretty sure thing that the pathetic A's lineup will score a run or two against Halladay.

Guess what that means?

And Charlie has very few choices as the roster is presently constituted. That's Rube's fault. But I'm sure that if Charlie wanted to bring up Mayberry or anyone else, Rube would have to listen.

The Phillies simply HAVE to get more production from the corner OF spots. I'm as big a Dom Brown fan as there is, and I think the team should ride him through what is hopefully just a slump as he starts to make adjustments to big-league pitching. That said, he needs to contribute more.

There isn't much more that needs to be said about Raul. He's giving you as little or less than Brown, and with none of the upside that "hey, at least if he's struggling now it could pay dividends in the future" like you have with Brown. Raul should not be playing for a contending team. It's over.

"If this lineup scores a run against Outman, it'll be a major upset.

And it' a pretty sure thing that the pathetic A's lineup will score a run or two against Halladay."

Where is the logic in this statement?

From the last thread- dennyb: "I know what I see."

This isn't Inception. There's one reality, and that reality is they are 7th out of 16 teams in run scored basically halfway through the season. That is average, not below average or 'bad' comparatively. It isn't hard to understand.

Iceman: Not much logic, obviously. But our lineup was pathetic last night against Cahill with better hitters, and they scratched out a couple runs against Hamels. He's obviously predicting a similar result today.

Given how poor our offense is, I can absolutely see us getting shut down again. And there's nothing really controversial about Doc giving up a run or two in his 7-8 innings of work. That's about what he normally does.

Interleague play just isn't good for the National League. The American League simply has better quality baseball teams. Does anyone doubt this to be true anymore?

The Phillies have been clearly the best team in the NL the past 4 and a half seasons. And yet even they have a below .500 record in interleague play over that stretch. And it's not just the DH--the AL dominates in games played in NL parks as well.

Jack- would you rather have the A's lineup today (Weeks-Pennington-Crisp-Matsui-Jackson-Sweeney-Sizemore-Powell) or the lineup above? Both are pretty bad, but you'd probably have to give the Phils the edge. Who would you rather have on the mound- Halladay or Outman? Probably Halladay.

aksmith takes this information and predicts a 2-0 loss for the Phils, calling it a 'pretty sure thing.' It makes absolutely no sense. If you want to be self-loathing and predict doom, that's fine, but his statements were just ridiculous and had no factual basis behind them.

I find this series fascinating. I'd assume that the entire Oakland A's team has a payroll less than just the Phillies' infield.

What does that mean? I think it means that you can have a pathetic offense night in and night out for a while lot less money than Rube has spent. Just an observation.

The offense is beginning to be a major problem. It's not like we did not know this, but it's really becoming a major problem. First Jroll needs to move his ass down the batting order. Vic, Polly, chase, Howard then please can we get cuddy from min. Then the bottom can be Jroll, Mayberry/ratool etc.... Mayberry has to be here raul is stealing money and he ain't getting it done period. The four run stat is amazing with the wins and losses. And the more cholly avoids the obvious the shorter the playoffs are
Gonna be. These players aren't making adjustments and it's time for them be held accountable for the sloppy and s$itty play. Everyone laughed when I said uncle cholly needed to be replaced and the more he avoids and players aren't held then dont be shocked when they are done

what the hell is all that. english please. make some sense.

Aksmith: So you rather have the A's lineup opposed to the Phillies? Really? Sure the offense isn't doing well, bu to even mention that the Oakland A's lineup is a better option is foolish.

Hard to score with a lineup of a #2 (Polanco), a #4 (Howard) and six guys who have approaches or skills that would have them hit #6 or #7.

Tommy is rarely right, but yeah, of course the Phils' lineup is better than the A's lineup.

"First Jroll needs to move his ass down the batting order"

Quite honestly, JRoll's place in the batting order has moved pretty far down my list of concerns. I mean, yes, he is a lousy leadoff hitter. But if you move Vic to leadoff, then you have lousy hitters batting 2nd and 5th, which are also key spots.

When you have exactly 3 good bats in your entire lineup, bitching about the batting order sort of misses the point.

Geoff Geary back in baseball,1 no hit inning in 1st appearance last night.Always could eat innings.

Great play by Chooch!!

Halladay getting the leadoff hitter is always a good sign.

Wheeler: "The thing about Roy Halladay is that he DOES allow baserunners."

Doc's 2011 WHIP: 1.039

No Wheeler, Doc is very good at NOT allowing baserunners. That's what make him a great pitcher. Pitchers generally let about 75% of runners on base score. There really isn't too much of a skill to keeping runners on base from scoring much better than the league average. The skill is in not allowing them to get on base in the first place, of which Doc is masterful.

He didn't even come close to swinging there, but it was still a nasty pitch.

Good signs. Some good swings early.

Phillies hitters sitting on fastballs early. Could be a offensive day.

The major upset begins.

Ladies and gentleman, according to aksmith you have just witnessed a MAJOR UPSET: a run against Josh Outman.

Outman pitched around Francisco to face Ibanez.

Francisco's a walk machine this year. One thing he's doing really well. 12.7% walk rate this year.

The bottom line is this teams offense needs to stop being so streaky, but let's not act like this team is the '69 Padres offensively.

Oops, forgot about Ruiz.

It's not a major upset that they scored 2 runs off Josh Outman. But it would be at least a minor upset if they score again.

Ahh, more bloop hits against Roy Halladay.

What else is new?

St this is a website to voice concerns, talk about team etc... I did not know this is a English major class you clown.

Oh come on.

I must dig out my Bobby Shantz autographed hat.

Here we go .. bloop hit to right and now infield single.

Very nice play by Polly!

Someone wanna explain how they just got a double on a pop-up to Valdez and a single on a grounder to Rollins? I'm watching on Gamecast.

Bad luck or bad defense?

Fatalotti sez: "Ahh, more bloop hits against Roy Halladay. What else is new?"

Fast, You may not know this but Doc's 2011 WHIP is 1.039 -- he does not give up that many bloop hits.

Signature Ibanez high fastball. Goes for it everytime.

jack: it was a bloop hit to right field in no man's land - it landed near the line and Valdez got closest to making the play. The grounder to Rollins was very deep on the outfield grass, no shot at throwing him out.

Jack- perfectly placed bloop that Valdez got a glove on, but not a clean chance for a catch. The grounder to Rollins was deep in the hole- absolutely no chance for a play. Kind of surprising Jackson didn't go to 3rd on the play, honestly.

Nice to see that bum Halladay get a hit.

Having failed in his first attempt to break the all-time streak for consecutive hitless ABs, Raul is taking another shot. He's 0 for his last 16.

CRAP. That was one foot from being 2 more runs. Damn.

That would have been a homer if they played in a bandbox.

Unfortunate that that ball didn't go out. I hope Polly can get a hit here and make that double count.

wtf Jimmy?! How do you not have the ability to hit a HR right handed anymore? Pathetic.

Why do we think this offense is "streaky"?

They're not streaky at all. They are simply consistently average. They score 3-5 runs basically every night. They have the occasional outlier where they get shutout or where they score 7+ runs, but there's no evidence that this offense is "streaky."

It is a total myth. Take any random 10-game sample, the average runs are around 3-4 per game. April-10-April 22: 2.9 R/G. April 25-May 7: 4.2 R/G. May 5-May 16: 3.2 R/G. May 18-May 28: 4.3 R/G. I just pulled those randomly from the game logs on B-Ref. Pretty much at any point, the Phils are in a 10-game sample where they score between 3-4 runs a game.

They are not streaky. They're actually quite consistent.

Brown talking to Halladay between innings - telling him he should have hustled and scored on Rollins' hit.

Halladay doing his groundball thing today.

One of those game where the Phils score early, and then shut it down for the rest of the game?

I already know how today's story ends, because this script plays out about once every five games or so: score in the first, never score again.

Oakland tied with Houston and Texas for most errors in the majors but they have been flawless this series.

Jack- you are not factoring in a key stat. DBE (dennyb's eyes). According to DBE they are below average and not average, despite being 7th out of 16 teams in runs scored. Sorry, the stats don't lie.

Nice play,Ryno.

Give me a break. Are the A's goign to actually hit anything hard today, or just keeps blooping everything to get on base?

Rollins was avoiding Valdez on the slide there. Exxon clearly distracted him.

It's only the 4th inning but the A's are threatening the 'most cheap hits in a game' record with a billion.

If this goes according to script, A's eventually tie it at 2 in the 8th and Doc leaves with a no decision.

If you had to pick right now, do the Phillies win or lose this game?

Phillies win, but Doc gets a 3rd straight ND.

Ibanez with a .283 OBP. That's just pathetic. His career OBP is .344 and last year, it was .349. Even through 79 games last year, it was still .327.

This guys' career as a produtive major league hitter is coming to a torturous end.

Seems the Phillies were content with scoring 2 in the first inning.

Meh, who cares if Doc gets the win, loss or ND. All I care about is the Phillies winning the game.

I think everyone understands where Ibanez is at as a player at this point in his career. Can we just not mention his OBP every thread? He will be in LF this season and will be gone after this year. Let's accept it and move on, because what oher options do we have?

Tommy boy: They could make a trade for a LF that actually contributed positively to the team.


Most likely outcome: Phillies win 2-1.

Ever-so-slightly less likely outcome: A's win 3-2.

More improbable than the earth being sucked into a black hole within the next 3 hours: the Phillies scoring anything other than 2 runs.

fata: The only reason to care about Doc's W-L record is that it will affect his CY Young bid, but obviously the Phillies as a team winning is the most important thing.

mvp, I'll take that under consideration. Probalby ignore it, but take it under consideration nonetheless.

Jack: True, they could. But you also need a RH bench player and possibly a closer as well. Unless you are fine with Lidge being the closer when he returns and I have a feeling you don't want that. So if you want another LFer as well, are you prepared to deplete your farm system?

Ibanez is a zero tool player at this point. He does nothing well. So saying there are no other options is just foolish because we have plenty of guys who could do at least one or even two things well.

Honestly, reading the tea leaves (Rube looking for an OF bat, Cholly sitting him 2 straight games, Cholly begging for a RH bat, now dropping him to 7th in the order), I think Raul has until the trading deadline to prove he can bring anything to the team or his days as an everyday player really will be over.

Prediction: Halladay complete game.

Iceman: So you guys all think this team will eat Raul's remaining money owed by making him a platoon player at best? I don't. Raul will be the everyday player whether you guys like it or not.

mvp, a starting corner OF to replace Ibanez is WAY more important than a bench bat. And Lidge isn't the closer when he comes back. Madson is the closer, and Lidge will have to work his way back into the 9th inning. Manuel already said that.

Tommy: Why do we need a closer? We need bullpen depth, for sure. But a closer?

If we found a RH full-time replacement for Raul, then Brown (plus the pitcher) would be the only LH bat in the lineup for whom you'd ever consider pinch-hitting. So the need for another RH bench bat would be a lot less pressing. And we could solve that need very easily by simply calling up Mayberry.

mvp, Ibanez won't start all year with the numbers he's putting up if there is a legit option that the Phillies can cquire to replace him. The only way Raul starts for the rest of the year is if the team decides that it's resource s would be better served going after a bullpen piece like Bell, or if they just have nothing left to trade with.

Ibanez is going to start the rest of the year just because the Phillies are afraid to eat the remaining $5M in salary at the expense of putting themselves in the best position to win the pennant.

looks like jimmy tweaked something.

Tommy: We're paying Ibanez the same no matter what his role is. We can pay him $12M to sit on the bench or we can pay him $12M to be a gigantic drain on our starting lineup.

fata: I realize that, but Madson is injured and Lidge is set to return in a week or two. They say Madson will return in "three or four days", but with the Phillis history with injuries I would be surprised if they ease Madson back in and use Lidge a few times.

Should have read: "Ibanez isn't going to start the rest of the year just because the Phillies are afraid to eat the remaining $5M in salary at the expense of putting themselves in the best position to win the pennant."

BAP: You are right in that they are paying Ibanez no matter what, but you think the Phillies will bench their $12 million man?

Where did you read that Lidge is set to come back in a week or two? Last I hear a week or so ago was that Lidge had a set back, and would be back "sometime" after the ASB.

mvp- two things. One, my main contention with what you said was that there are no other options than Ibanez in LF. That's not true. He's a zero tool player. You're talking about replacing nothing, essentially.

But yeah, I think if you look big picture (which everyone here seems incapable of doing), Rube is seeing a LF that really just kills the middle of this lineup almost every night and looking more at the money he has invested in players like Lee, Halladay and Howard to win NOW than the money he has invested in Ibanez. I think he has given and will give him every chance to prove he can contribute everyday in this lineup because of that price tag, but once the trade deadline comes and it's WFC time, all bets are off. He will do what he needs to do to win this year, and if that's platooning or benching Ibanez, yeah, I think he's going to do it.

that's why you run domonic!!!!

Just so we are clear, I am 100% behind benching Raul if he doesn't show improve soon. And I am 100% for Madson being the closer.

I agree wih BAP that the fix would be trade for a LFer and bring up Mayberry.

outman blew that one, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the A's were due for a fielding mistake.

and they were due for a crappy hit against them after all the crap thats been falling in for them.

mvp, yes, the Phillies would bench, or release, their $12M man if they were doing something to considerably improve their chances of winning the pennant. It's foolhardy to think that they wouldn't if they have an option to bring in a legit corner outfiedler.

mvp: Why wouldn't they? If they determine that he's finished -- and at some point pretty soon, they're going to have to come to that conclusion -- why would they keep putting him out there just because of his salary? It doesn't even make any sense.

Hey, a run. My earth getting sucked into a black hole theory is now in danger of coming true.

fata: RE Lidge: Leslie Gudel reported that on CSN a couple days ago. Maybe it has changed since then.

During this game, two people who say stupid things all the time (aksmith and BAP) have had stupid statements be proven wrong within about 15 minutes of saying them. This calls for an appearance from clout.

Just read through this thread. One poster was calling out Wheeler for stating that Halladay lets on a lot of baserunners. Actually Wheeler is right and the poster was incorrect. Franzke & LA were saying the same thing today. He's in the top 10 in the league in hits allowed and today was the first time in about 10 games where he retired the first two batters of the game. Of course, he's still a great pitcher as he bears down pitching from the stretch.

I hope you guys are right about cuting ties with Raul if he doesn't improve. I just don't see it. I hope I am wrong.

I never thought I'd say this, but Francisco should probably be playing every day at this point. He's hitting better of lately, his overall numbers are much better than Brown or Ibanez, & he brings balance to a lineup that is excessively left-handed. Plus his career norms say he should hit to an OPS which is considerably higher than anything you can reasonably expect from either Raul or Dom.

I never thought I'd say this, but Francisco should probably be playing every day at this point. He's hitting better of lately, his overall numbers are much better than Brown or Ibanez, & he brings balance to a lineup that is excessively left-handed. Plus his career norms say he should hit to an OPS which is considerably higher than anything you can reasonably expect from either Raul or Dom.

I never thought I'd say it, but then I said it twice. Sorry.

5 pitch inning. Nice. I can see Doc finishing this game.

Ya ever think you would say it twice? <--joke

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel