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Friday, June 17, 2011


I have to take a nap if I'm going to get past the 1st inning. Friday's work schedule is brutal.

Normally, I wouldn't tune into these games especially with the late start on the West Coast, playing a team I am largely indifferent too (Mariners), and having a lot of other things to do.

Will try to catch a little of Pineda tonight. Curious to see what he looks like & if he delivers the goods tonight.

JW tempting fate with the opposing player pic.

Couple that with a cross-country trek and a 7 game win streak and I'll be the first to say it, but "this game feels like a loss."

Just stumbled across this from MG in May 2007:

"Since the Mets are going to win the NL East with 95+ wins again, then the Phils are going to be relegated to the wildcard chase yet again."

Quite the prognosticator! ;-)

I think that's it for my trip down memory lane, although it was fun!

Clout - I had seen as much of MiniMart as you had. Zero.

And so far, he's been about what I expected, although I had actually hoped for some speed on the basepaths. He appears to be able to run when he gets up a full head of speed. But he's likely to never steal a base. Too bad. His defense has seemed fine at second and short. Not so much in the outfield, unsurprisingly.

I'm not sure that anyone knows if he can play in the majors or not. But he's not been the total disaster predicted by you and near universally on BL. Do I wish someone else were on the roster instead? Sure. I'd take Orr first.

"He's gone into plaid!"

I am waiting for Venters' left arm to 'turn plaid' as he is on pace to pitch 97 2/3 IP in 88 G and has thrown 28 IP the last 6 weeks.

Francisco DH and Ibanez in LF per High Cheese.

Ibanez in LF at Safeco:

Has Cholly watched Ibanez play LF this season including the other night when Halladay was pitching?

My friend asked me 'How do you want to bet that Ibanez makes another backing breaking miscue in LF this year in the playoffs that costs them a game?' Sadly, you don't have to be Cassandra to see that one coming.

Tonight's lineup @ SEA: Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Polano 3B, Ibanez LF, Francisco DH, Brown RF, Ruiz C. Oswalt P

Wonder if Pat Gillick will be at the game?

Obviously Oswalt not hitting in above lineup.

Hilarious that Francisco is DH and Ibanez is in LF.

Interesting. Mariners are -105 this series. I thought for sure they would be +110 or so. Guess the Vegas guys don't think the Phils will hit a lick either this series.

Francisco? Really?

I don't understand the hold that Raul has that keeps him in the line up. I guess Cholly figures if he's being paid that much money he is supposed to be playing.Sure hope RAJ learns 1 year contracts exist.

David Murphy (via Twitter): "Hamels just got done throwing a bullpen. Trainer wasn't even out there watching. Pretty clear back a non issue."

Good news.

If Gload isn't in the lineup tonight why isn't he on the DL?

What no mention of Sam Perlazzo returning to the site of his greatest accomplishment?

Murph trying to sell us that Ibanez has played Safeco before.

Not buying it. If BenFran's defense is equal to Ibanez (as he puts it), then Mayberry being at AAA with a hurt Gload riding the pine is an even bigger travesty.

The real travesty entering this series is that Gload remains on the roster. If his injury prevents him from running the bases & hitting anything more than Singles, he ought to be on the DL. Cliff Lee is a more formidable PH at this point.

Preacher: Great minds think alike. Didn't see your last post until I finished typing up mine.

Ibanez should be in the lineup tonight. Phils really don't have a better option especially since Gload can't play in the field. Just at DH.

Don't care if Ibanez is familiar with Safeco (not like the LF is that odd there anyways), Francisco is simply the better defensive OF at this point with notably more range. Ibanez simply doesn't get to anything anymore. Behind him, left/right, or in front of him it drops.

Plus, he has taken some puzzling gambles this year to make plays that turned a potential single into an XHB.

Ibanez has a noodle arm. that is all.

IF there were ever a time to bring up Orr and Mayberry and demote Mini Mart and DL Gload, this was it. So, I guess that time will never come. Puzzling to say the least.

I guess what I'm trying to say (and GTown, too, I think) is that hauling Gload to Seattle as an active player makes no sense if you don't use him as DH against a right hander.

It's less about Ibanez in the field, as the dominoes should fall to move him into that DH spot, if a hurt Gload is DL'd and Mayberry can play.

Then we can complain about whether or not Mayberry/Francisco should play LF while Ibanez DH's. That argument would at least make sense. Carrying Gload without playing him in the single spot he's best suited to play (DH against a RHP) makes absolutely ZERO sense whatsoever.

But hey, we'll have Gload to pinch hit if we need a power bat off the bench late in a close game, right?

Gload cannot run so he could only DH until he got a hit and then Martinez or Francisco would pinch run then be the DH. I could see that being a reasonable plan.

Otherwise, though I have to agree with everyone (and I am FO apologist) that Ibanez in LF is just dumb. Ibanez would be fine buried as the DH ahead of Gload with Francisco a nod above Ibanez because of his speed and fielding. But no real need for PH with the starters lineup out there.

PhxPhilly, if Gload cannot run, and hence can't really be the DH for the reasons you list, why is he not on the DL?

Feels like a loss so much it feels like a win.

Going plaid. Ha. Thread is off to a great start with that reference.

Its quite simple. Gload is a pinch hitter and a fairly good one. Get over it.

No way can Ben Fran that LF better than Ibanez, he knows all the sophisticated intricacies of that turf. There is a spot that slopes .35 inches uphill, that divot near the wall and the chunk near the foul line that pitches up 2 inches from right to left with a stimping rate of .55. Raul had to give a clinic on it to all the fielders who may play there this weekend.

I'm not sure I understand what Amaro is going for here, or Charlie for that matter.

He signed Ibanez for three years and we all assumed the third year would see him as a pinch hitter and occasional player in the field.

But that hasn't even been remotely the case, though it should be.

And he signed Polanco, and we all assumed Polanco would be a utility man/semi-regular in the third year. We all see Polanco seeming to break down before our eyes. But with the Ibanez deal in the rear view mirror, I think we're going to see Placido trotting his broken down body and punch and judy swing out there every day next season.


I think he should be on the DL and Larish or Rizzotti should be on the Phillies but as a major apologist I make the case that he is the best non-starter (LH) hitter in the organization.

I really doubt any of the AAA guys would really be better. I like Larish because he could play 3B twice a month. Rizzotti can walk, hit for average, and has decent power. He has no useful position, just like Gload, but at least he can move. I'd like to see if he takes advantage of the chance.

Even going for ANY hitter, who will definitely be better than Gload? Mayberry is poor against RHP. Posednik is hurt. Rest of guys are career minor leaguers. I'd like Kratz to take over for Sardinha but that is unlikely.

Ovebeck I think will be similar to Mayberry (maybe higher average but poor defense and no speed). Singleton is way too young and not having a good year anyway. Valle is currently injured and for many reasons should not be promoted. Susdorf is fodder but hitting well.

Maybe I am missing someone but I do not see any hitter I expect to be better than Gload with the game on the line. I hope then can trade for Dobbs (or someone like him).

Cliff Lee should be the DH before Francisco. He should probably play LF before Ibanez too.

Feels like a loss tonight. Unless they lay down an offensive assault like they did on Ubaldo last year.

When Ibanez came over, there was a hilarious blooper loop that someone posted. That should be busted back out for this series.

In his first year, Ibanez took lots of chances. Probably once or twice a week. He tended to make the play far more than not. Every one of them, Burrell would have played on a hop. Two years later, he's still taking those chances and, the opposing hitters are happy for the doubles and triples.

Act your age, Raul.

Burrell would play on a hop and he has a cannon arm. Raold doesn't even have that.

Ackley looks like a smug bastard.

The trip down memory lane is hilarious. I read through the thread during and after that awful loss to the Braves in September (blew an 8-2 lead in the 8th, Roberson out of position on the game-winning hit). Jack calls for Gillick and Manuel to be canned immediately and starts an impromptu poll demanding people go on record as to whether neither, either or both be fired. I remembered that thread being the first I ever posted on- I basically called for Gillick's head also. Hilarious stuff.

The best was a quote from some random commenter that shows how quickly things can change in a few years: "IT'S OVER.

I think Ibanez's defensive game has deteriorated all around. It's time to get him out of the regular rotation for that reason. He's a rag-armed liability on the field.

The answer to the Ibanez problem is Beltran. At least mine is. Is there a team out there that takes him and his full remaining salary?

why is the guy with the freshest legs on the team the DHing?

I would've DHed jimmy today since he played every inning of the marlins series

and DHed Utley & Howard each a day. the day I DHed Howard, I'd had Utley man 1b

Favorite thing I found: "To put it bluntly, signing Thome is turning into one of the worst decisions the Phils ever made. He’s one dimensional, expensive, old, and now nursing multiple injuries that could cripple the rest of his career."

Weitzel discussing Thome's DL'ing that finally got Howard in the lineup. Damn sorry I didn't find that post in 2005.

You play the tall guy who plays there everyday at first, not Utley. Howard doesn't need a damn day off for another 2 months.

Playing Utley at first right now would be a mistake. Don't want to see him stretching for any throws. He's familiar with all the moves necessary for second base. Don't want him stretching some direction he's not used to.

Polanco, Rollins, Utley and Polanco could all benefit from a day or two off from fielding. But they won't get days off if Charlie sticks to his usual interlegue routine. But I sure would like to see Raul DH ing, since we know he's going to be hitting every game. Or trying to.

Cholly's hatred for Ben Fran must know no bounds. Ibanez playing the field in any AL park is lunacy.

And the 'Ibanez knows Safeco' is rich. This isn't Fenway or a park with weird dimensions. It's got a regular fence and about an acre's worth of ground to cover.

Saying Ibanez 'knows Safeco' as a justification for running him out there is like telling an old man confined to a wheelchair to take the stairs because 'he's done it before.'

Why would anyone assume that they would sign Raul as an 11M dollar pinch hitter? He is being to paid to play and that is what's going to happen until the bitter end. Now why he isn't taken out for defensive purposes in the late innings of the game is really the unanswerable question. It's not fair to mistreat the elderly.

Maybe it's the Beefeater talking, but I can envision the possibilty of Francisco having a good game against Pineda, as he is basically a fastball hitter, and Pineda will be throwing a lot of those.
Why isn't he playing the field? You got me there...

Old - I think most assumed that Raul got a three year deal from Rube because he'd take it over a two year deal from everyone else. And the third year wouldn't have much in the way of expectations.

Why do players sometimes get a three million dollar buyout NOT to play for your team? Because that's what it took to get them to sign the first years of the deal.

Maybe Manuel really wants to DH Ibanez but, he wants to give him a chance to play in front of his old fans. Yeah, he's not deluded. He's just letting Ibanez enjoy his last weekend at Safeco.

Thats what I'm thinking Hugh. Let the guy play in his return to Seattle. DH tomorrow maybe. Ben Fran may have a better arm but he is no gold glover. 5 game lead. Pineda is going down. I couldn't give a flying phuck that Ibanez is in LF. He is always in LF.

If we could somehow figure out the number of potential words or expressions in the English language which might potentially describe the Phillies' continuing decision to keep Ross Gload on the roster, and if we multiplied that number by the average number of posters, and average number of posts, on a Beerleaguer Friday night game thread, then we could actually calculate the probability that, by random chance, 2 back-to-back Beerleaguer posters would just happen to pick the identical word ("travesty") to describe Ross Gload's continuing presence on the roster.

Whatever that probability comes out to, it's about equal to the probability that the Phillies' offense will be able to hit Michael Pineda tonight.

Raul never DHs under UC. I dont even understand why anyone is surprised.

b_a_p: The odds of that increase when the subject at hand is, in fact, a travesty.

Speaking of Michael Pineda and Dustin Ackley . . . with the former on the mound tonight, and the latter making his major league debut, it is doubtful that any of us will ever live to see a more optimal moment for bitching about the Seattle prospects that were NOT included in the Cliff Lee trade.

Hugh: That's an excellent point. I neglected to include the "travesty constant" in my equation.

Gload has a place on the roster. He has done a quality job as a PH.

Issue over the longer term is that it means his older starters are going to log a fair amount of innings with a bench that consists of a guy who can't play the field/run (Gload), another guy Cholly hates to use unless he has to (Mini Mart), and another guy who he doesn't like to use either (Francisco).

It really is nitpicking over a minor issue. Just would prefer to see the regulars especially the guys in the infield log so many innings to stay a bit fresher over the course of the season.


When J.C. Ramirez has a mantle full of Cy Youngs and Pineda is trying to hang on in the show, you'll be eating those words.

Yeah that's what's missing from BL- more bitching about the Cliff Lee 3. It's been a while. I bet we could have gotten Ackley for him and played him at 2nd instead of Chase!

NEPP- because A) He sucks in the field and B) This is one of the few opportunities UC will have to keep his 'bat' in the lineup without sacrificing any kind of defense in LF?

I defend Cholly most of the time from the Monday Morning QBs on BL, but this one is pretty head-scratching.

Well, Gillies came back for a couple of games and then fell off the face of the planet again (I'm assuming he tweaked his hamstring again but no announcement has been made that I know of).

But yeah.

I didn't say angry, Iceman, I said surprised. Did the move really surprise you given UC's history of NOT DHing him? It didnt even startle me to be honest.

b_a_p: No need to complain. Gillies is obviously the next Ken Griffey, Jr.

Gload has a place on the roster. He has done a quality job as a PH.

The man is incapable of getting an XBH, & it requires the use of another player when he does manage to hit the inevitable Single. Mayberry should be up for this series, & Gload should be shut down.

Normally, I wouldn't care who Charlie rested or didn't rest. But when Sarge interviewed him the other day, Rollins sure sounded like a guy who wanted a day off. He laughed it off right after he said it. But he definitely wanted that day off. And if he feels that way, I can't even being to imagine that Polanco doesn't share that desire.

I get the feeling Raul never wants to take a day off. I think he believes he's Wally Pipp. On the other hand, Benny Fran ain't no Lou Gehrig.

It's a ringing indictment on your backup IF situation when you're keeping a guy on the roster who has to basically walk to first base even if he hits a ball in the gap. What happens if he hits a HR? He saunters around the bases?

The sad thing is, the other options are so bad that I actually agree with keeping him on the roster solely for his ability to hit singles off the bench.

NEPP- it's probably a sign that I have more faith in Cholly than I should but yeah, with Raul being a year older and about 200% less effective in the OF, I really thought Cholly would DH him this interleague go-around.

Here's something for concern:

Polanco since May 1st:

.244 AVG/.291 OBP/.590 OPS in 183 PA.

He has very quietly been absolutely terrible for the past 7.5 weeks.

Didn't reading the BL posts from 2005 make anyone a bit more tolerant of the relatively minor defects in the 2011 Phillies compared to the 2005 Phillies? The apoplexy over Raul and Gload (especially) is astounding.

But as my father always says, "A bitching soldier is a happy soldier."

When did Sean Hannity become a Phillies analyst?

I know the game is upon us, but CJ rocks with this comment:

2005... what a great year for Beerleaguer to emerge. It really is the season that I believe defined these Philadelphia Phillies. Utley gets out from under the platoon. Howard gets his long-awaited callup and mashes. Madson becomes a reliable reliever. Rollins gets his 5-year extension. Hamels is promoted to Double A. And, more importantly, this team makes its first late-season run to try and win a playoff spot. It was repeated (and came up short in 2006) before J-Roll's prediction in 2007 came true.

Posted by: CJ | Friday, June 17, 2011 at 04:06 PM

I don't post anymore; not because I don't love the Phils. It's just that I can't imagine $250mm devoted to 2 LH players (Howard, Lee) and not feeling the sting of trying to "wait out" the waning years of those brutal contracts.

Who knows the future value of money? Regardless, as great as Clifford Phieffer and the Big Piece are today, come 2103... jeezus,

Clifton Phifer...not Clifford.

Howard and Lee are under contract until 2103?? Damn, that's going to be a rough year.

Phillies record when Beerleaguer posts a picture of an opposing player for the game chat: 0-7

4/8/11: L,6-3 (Bob Horner)
4/12/11: L,7-4 (Jayson Werth)
5/8/11: L,5-2 (Jair Jurrjens)
5/10/11: L,2-1 (Josh Johnson)
5/16/11: L,3-1 (Albert Pujols)
5/17/11: L,2-1 (Jaime Garcia)
6/1/11: L,2-1 (John Lannan)
6/17/11: ??? (Dustin Ackley)

Hugh: It's worse than you think. In 2103, Raul Ibañez will still be here, & he will still be starting.

"I don't understand the hold that Raul has that keeps him in the line up. I guess Cholly figures if he's being paid that much money he is supposed to be playing."

yet, charlie didn't feel that way with the similarly compensated burrell. i think that's the real question at this point. not even bitching at this point, i would really just like charlie to explain the rationale. although it would likely non-nonsensical.

Of course he will, Dave. He's a starter.

Braves losing late, 5-2.

"Howard and Lee are under contract until 2103?? Damn, that's going to be a rough year."

i assume they will be just be heads in glass jars on top of robot bodies, futurama-style. the beastie boys and beck put on pretty rocking concerts with just such modifications.

Nixon is still a mean S.O.B. without a body, too. There's probably a name for that in the Becktionary.

9 Pitches. Good start.

Let's see....opposing player in thread pic, Ibanez in LF, 9 pitches in the first inning. Yep, feels like a loss.

81 pitch perfect game tonight I'm assuming

Lot of bitching and loss predictions for fans of a team with a seven-game winning streak and the best record in baseball. Geez. Raul > pat the bat. He's returning to Seattle -- he just might have a good game and deserves the shot to get a standing o from mariner fans. His defense is not the worst I've ever seen. And the mariners offense -- I don't see a single player in their lineup other than ichiro who scares me. Lighten up everyone.

wonder why the broadcast isn't showing the radar gun readings.

raul is better than pat defensively?

I expect the Phils to score ~8 runs this series. Question is there pitching good enough without Halladay/Lee going to win the series.

Kind of disappointed a bit because I was hoping for a really nice pitching showdown but the matchups just didn't quite work out that way.

I don't know what's going to happen next week so I'm not too concerned about 2103.

Were those first 2 pitches to Howard TOO down the middle or something?

wow, I've seen some bad ab's from howard but that one was up there

Old Phan, is it true that the two rules for guys your age are: never pass a bathroom without stopping and, never waste a hard-on?

Well, at least they are getting better. That was a 10 pitch inning.

How exactly are the Mariners' above .500 coming into tonight with this turd spectacular lineup?

Unless the Phils play some crappy defense, it is hard to see them scoring too. Like the Phils' pen better too.

raul is better than pat defensively?

Posted by: f4f | Friday, June 17, 2011 at 10:21 PM


Hugh, I know a bathroom trip can hard on me.

Old phan, not sure I understand your last post, but it seems vaguely Weiner-esque!!

I went to a game in Seattle once. Could generate more energy from my hamster on his wheel.

Now up in Vancouver? Different story.

Irresistible force vs immovable object

Phils are 15th in NL (3.70 R/G) on the road just slightly ahead of the Rockies at 3.51.

Mariners are 12th in the AL (3.42 R/G) at home. Just ahead of the Angels (3.09) and Rays (3.33)

Francisco has had the patience of Gandhi at the plate this season. Been his one real noteworthy offensive contribution.

With King Felix and Pineda on my fantasy team I have been following the Mariners a lot. If you think the Phils have a punchless offense, you're gonna love Seattle. Ackley should be put in the 3-hole immediately.

Also, Pineda is very, very good. Getting shut down by him would not exactly be something to be ashamed of. He's been dominating the entire American League.

Braves, Mets and Marlins lost.

Why not try a hit-and-run with Francisco on 1st and a good contact hitter (Ruiz) coming up?

Harold Reynolds just said there is a playoff like atmosphere in Seattle for this game. That explains all the empty seats.

As I have mentioned many times before, Francisco is utterly useless.

Was Francisco walking to second? Jesus. He was out by a mile.

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