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Thursday, June 16, 2011


Romero DFA. Other than bringing up Brown, this is the first decent roster move the team has made all season.

Also, Cliff Lee is friggin' AWESOME.

so the Phils spit out a loogy...

Romero DFA'd? Beerleaguer sing-a-long anyone?

Smart move. Thanks for the memories, JC, but I'm awfully glad to not have to watch you pitch again in Phillies uniform.

Why doesn't he stick around one more day if Worley's gonna pitch Saturday?

(Anticipating a joke response, posting anyway)

EFF: Serious answer--not worth having him make the trip out to Seattle. Probably out of fairness to him.

Ah, I forgot about Worley's start. I was thinking they might call up Mayberry, so they'd have more DH options for the upcoming series. They still could, although it would require them to do the unthinkable & release Martinez.

Too cheap to pay for his airfare home.

Huge news. Always feel bad for a guy on the downside, but he did "earn" this himself. As Ricky Bo just said, when you think of JC, you think "Ball 1."

Romero's bad, and ought to have gone, but for 07 and 08 he has my gratitude. Happy trails.

Worley v. King Felix? We have Doc, Hamels, Lee, & Oswalt, and not one of them is lined up to face Hernandez? Would have liked seeing Hamels go against him.

I'll miss JC. Not his pitching, though. I always liked Romero because he seemed to be a good guy and came completely out of nowhere to have a few solid seasons in red pinstripes.

But other than offering Martinez back to the Nats or releasing Baez, this was the logical move.

Best of luck to JC in the future.

JC can always find work as a barber.

Think he'll take Mini Mart with him? (A guy can dream....)

GBrettfan: Why waste him on a game in which the Phillies probably won't score anyway? I'd rather the Phils maximize their chances to win vs. the Mariners' other starters.

It's considered bad form to DFA or fire someone in the middle of a road trip, especially one on the other side of the continent. I remember all the dispersions cast upon the Mets when they did that to Willie Randolph.

I thought of that, GTown. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-full right now, after this homestand, and like our chances in a pitchers' duel.

Two World Series wins, that's what I'll remember about JC.

I meant aspersions, not dispersions.

I would feel bad about JC if I weren't so insainly jealous of him for being a ML-er for any length of time in the first place.

I wouldn't write Romero's Phillies obituary quite yet. If he clears waivers (which is likely), he could accept an assignment to Lehigh Valley & end up back with the Phillies at some point. I believe that's what happened with Greg Dobbs last year.

Over their last 3 starts, Lee has been the best pitcher in baseball. Hamels #3, that scrub Halladay is dragging along at #8. Cut that bum, he's dragging the other two down!!

that primo hoagies commercial is hilarious. it sounds like she says f8ck. but my brother thinks it's funk. actually, i think she says fun.

JC got nailed to the cross a few too many times over the past year...

romero has fought off personal demons for several years. ultimately, his inability to find the strike zone beat him again. thank you for some good times and good luck.

How often does a team play 4 games in about 48 hours yet barely use their bullpen?

Yeah, bap is correct. I wouldn't be surprised to see JC back in pinstripes later this year. No one will claim him and the only way to keep collecting his salary is to go to the minors (according to David Murphy). So he'll be at LHV just biding his time.

Why was I a JC Romero fan? It's easy...

In 2007, as the Phils made their miracle run to the division crown, Romero pitched 36.1 innings from the end of June to the end of the season with this line:
1.24 ERA, 372 ERA+, 1.101 WHIP

He backed that up with an ERA+ of 161 in 59 IP in 2008.

He was always wild, though, never having a BB/9 of fewer than 5.8 in his time with the Phillies.

This is what I've been able to get from reading BLer, and being able to soak up the wisdom of such knowledgeable baseball critics such as MG, Jack, and Gtown.

Considering that this team has a 2nd baseman who is a "shell of his former self," an albatross of a first baseman, a selfish, over-the-hill shortstop, a 3rd baseman who is "average" at best, a LFer who is washed up, a catcher who is not performing particularly well, a rookie in RF who is hitting below 230, the worst player in the major leagues taking up roster space (Martinez), a key pinch-hitter who can't run the bases and who should be sent down, a backup infielder who is "over-rated" defensively who "hacks constantly" (Valdez), a key late-inning bullpen pitcher who can't really be trusted (Stutes), a backup catcher who isn't even the best catcher in the Phillies' minor league teams, two other bullpen arms who have no business on the team (Baez and Herndon), one pitcher in the rotation who shouldn't be in the majors (Kendrick0, one pitcher in the rotation who is pitching hurt and is clearly performing well below his usual standard (Oswalt), a "moron" of a manager who can only "play it by the book," and who constantly fails to put his players in position to win games through his mis-management, and a GM that is a "moron" as well,

I'd say having the best record in baseball isn't all that bad.

...then he got busted for PEDs.

@Philliper -- you forgot to include a CF who consistently mis judges his routes to flyballs and swings at pitches around his eyes while playing dumb baseball

Oh yeah, and a 3rd-baseman who is league-average" at best.

As far as I can tell, the Phillies have a grand total of only three players who are even above average: Hamels, Halladay, and Madson - and one worth 1/2 a grain of salt, Lee, because he's strung together a few good games. 3 great players and one good player and a bunch of bums and the best record in baseball. Incredible.

Thanks Hamm - that is one of my favorite complaints - that Vic is a "dumb" player. Because when BL commenters played major league baseball they never made any mental errors.

At the game today...most enjoyable!!!

There is an inexplicable bond between Phillies fans and Cliff Lee that you can just feel in the stands. The fans are absolutely into everything he does - from hitting to fielding and of course pitching. I swear their concession sales must plummet when Lee pitches because not only does he pitch extremely quickly (I wonder why more batters don't step out against him?) but people don't want to miss any of the action in a Cliff Lee game. He sure can field his position. One play, he ran so hard to first base on a grounder to Ryan Howard, he almost beat him to the bag. A friend just texted me that this year Lee is 6-1 at CBP with an ERA below 2.00.

I think he feels at home here.

Phlipper- you're misquoting Jack, to be fair. I remember him referring to Polanco as average to below-average. In comparison to his hero Pedro Feliz, however, he's Brooks Robinson.

My favorites are the comments about Rollins' "selfish" swings whenever he pops up. Oh and look, he didn't blow a hammy trying to beat out a ground ball to the pitcher, HOW SELFISH.

Phlipper: You have just recited the Bible according to the Moronocracy.

With the Braves throwing Minor tonight, they have a real chance to get swept by the Mets and fall to a full six games back in the division.


Average to below average = average at best, does it not, Iceman?

How to judge the Phils fans favorite player?

Utley - obviously
Chooch - Many fans' fave for the past 2 years
Lee - "I never wanted to leave this place in the first place" will be remembered for generations
Halladay - "It's a dream come true" to come to Philly, and a dream come true for us, too!
Valdez - shaking off a called pitch - Classic!!!

How to choose?

And that doesn't even count Rollins "We're the team to beat!" who will be remembered more fondly in the future than he is now (on the downside of a great career)

It's a pleasure to watch Lee field his position.

Of course, if the Phils had hung on to Pat Burrell (6 HRs, 15 RBI), or Werth (9 HRs, 25 RBI), we wouldn't need to worry about our anemic offense not stacking up to the Juggernaut Braves and their run-producing machine (12th in the league in runs scored).

Saw Cliff Lee pitch today for the first ever in person. There was an electricity in the air from the fans before the game to the final pitch. He is fun to watch.

Romero was one of the key scrap heap acquisitions that put this team over the top. Like most scrap heap finds he wasn't fancy, but he got the job done.

Phlipper- I guess you're right, I just didn't want you to misquote Jack and make it sound like he claimed Polanco is better than he actually thinks he is.

Your post also left out that nobody on the team is young and hungry- they're all old and stale. Just going through the motions.


Slightly surprised Justin got moved up to LV. Saw him last week, and it seemed like he was still working on certain things, resulting in a tough time getting pitches down. Everything was high or high in the zone for the first couple batters, even though that wasn't where the catcher wanted it. Still worked well, probably because not much was being thrown fast that day until he came into the game. His speed was a totally different feel for the batters, I'm sure.

Really proud of him, though, and Ryan Edell, too. Class acts - hope they do really well with the jump.

Fun stat update to the Aces' hitting competition:

After today, Lee and Hamels have the exact same line:


Rube: Last night we said a great many things. You said I was to do the thinking for both of us. Well, I've done a lot of it since then, and it all adds up to one thing: you're getting on that bus to Lehigh Valley where you belong.

J.C.: But, Ruben, no, I... I...

Rube: Now, you've got to listen to me! You have any idea what you'd have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten, we'd both wind up out of work. Isn't that true, Cholly?

Cholly: I'm afraid the fans would insist.

J.C.: You're saying this only to make me go.

Rube: I'm saying it because it's true. Inside of us, we both know you belong in Triple A. You're part of baseball, the thing that keeps you going. If that bus leaves tomorrow and you're not on it, you'll regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.

J.C.: But what about us?

Rube: We'll always have 2008. We didn't have, we, we lost it until you came to back. We got it again last night.

J.C.: When I said I would never leave Philly.

Rube: And you never will. But I've got a job to do, too. Where I'm going, you can't follow. What I've got to do, you can't be any part of. J.C., I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of two little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that.

[J.C. lowers his head and begins to cry]

Rube: Now, now...

[Rube gently places his hand under J.C.'s chin and raises it so their eyes meet]

Rube: Here's looking at you kid.

Good point, Iceman -

and what's amazing is that in addition to not being young and hungry, the Phils are still incredibly impatient at the plate - constantly first-pitch swinging and going after balls out of the strike one. Their ability to combine complacency with overly-aggressive hitting is mind-boggling. It reminds me of how Madson is constantly "over-hyped" yet still has only one blown save.

Somebody has watched Casablanca one too many times.

LF - Casablanca in that context becomes really creepy!

The overreaction, the hyperbole, the fault-finding that often pervades this site is pretty entertaining, to me. The snarky, pat-yourself-on-the-back mocking of it, not so much.

Thanks for the good times JC. See you in hell.

Hugh, without the mocking of the tongue in cheek comments, many would have nothing to say. Let them have their fun. Engage in some meta-mocking yourself, it's fun and profitable, and can be done in the comfort of your own living room!

According to Murphy, "Phils would be thrilled if Romero declined assignment. 900,000 more dollars to spend on the RHB they are pretending not to have interest in."

"Antonio, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

And our "average at best" 3rd baseman is at least 4" too short.

JC Romero was the most interesting reliever to watch since the Phils had Wild Thing. Not because he had the best stuff or threw hard. Just never knew what he was going to do with generally when he came in.

My bet is that he will likely be back at some point this year but not until Sept.

TNA- speaking of, I posted this 3 threads ago, but the only expensive, veteran, RH OF bats on teams that are already out of it are Kemp, Soriano, Cuddyer, & Pence as far as I can tell. Maybe Willingham & Vladdy . . . and Juan Rivera and Joey Bats, but I think those 4 aren't likely. Kemp and Soriano also seem unlikely which leaves you with Cuddyer & Pence.

Means 1 LHP reliever in the pen for the foreseeable future. Too bad the Phils didn't sign Choate and instead went the Reyes/Romero route. Oh well.

Contrary to prevailing opinion, I think J.C. is done in Philly. The FO was far less than excited to bring him back this season in the first place. Having now attempted to cut the cord yet again, I feel this time it will stay cut.

I expect they're going to keep looking for another lefty who might join the bullpen. Hopefully, they find one before they play Boston because I have a feeling the bullpen is going to get some innings in that series.

I used to enjoy Romero but, even though sometimes wanted to cover my eyes when he pitched. Romero has always done a high wire act - putting runners on base and creating his own emergency on the mound. For a couple years, his ability to escape was uncanny and, perversely entertaining. That dried up the last couple years and he was an obvious choice to hit the bricks when they brought up Worley.

Phillies sign former Phillie Killer Tim Redding!!!

Why would Rivera be unlikely?

Well, where are all my apologies? Remember back when they signed Romero and I said he stunk and they'd be better off with anyone else or nobody from the left side? And many here jumped on me and told me it was a good signing?

You were wrong. I was right. He stunk. Bad signing.

The apology line forms right below this post.

Oh, and Minimart had a couple of really good at bats today while I was still watching the game.

JeffS, yea, the Casablanca dialogue was a bit of a gender bender, but I think I wanted to show that J.C. had to go. We'll always have the 2008 J.C. Romero in our hearts, but the broke down 2011 version had to go, and good riddance!

Congratulations, aksmith, you were right!

Also, I think your gloating about Michael Martinez's 1-for-4 with a single says more about Michael Martinez than his .203/.226/.254 line ever could.

smitty, your narcissistic, self-absorbtion is BL classic (not to mention revisionist history).

When a player is signed off of the scrap heap - for the MLB MINIMUM or a MiL deal - it's a low risk signing that is never bad unless that player winds up hurting the team.

And these are the facts:

Despite the high-wire aggravation Romero provided after 2008, his performances helped win the team more games than they lost, and helped them win a WFC. Period.

Now, if you want to argue that the CONTRACT he was signed to after the 2007 season was a too much money, that's another thing.

But Romero was a good signing in 2007. He helped win the first division title in 14 years, helped the team get over the hump, helped the team win a WFC.

Good luck, JC. I'll be grateful, always.

LF, FWIW, I enjoyed the Casablanca dialogue.

Don't let the trolls discourage you.

aksmith: I was fairly horrified when they resigned Romero also. In Amaro's defense, though, trying to find a viable free agent LOOGY for less than $2M per year is like trying to read tea leaves. Many of these guys are cut from the same cloth -- i.e., wild, inconsistent, totally ineffective against right-handers, and getting up in years. All you can really do is pick one, hope for the best, and be willing to cut the chord relatively quickly if it doesn't work out.

The Phillies have had some good luck with the LOOGY game in the past, getting excellent value out of Romero in 2007 & 2008, & Eyre in 2008 & 2009. This year, it didn't work out. Maybe they'll take a flier on another waiver wire LOOGY, and have better luck the next time. It would definitely be nice to have 2 lefties in the pen.

aksmith has about as much chance of gathering apologies from the Beerleaguer crowd as Michael Martinez does of becoming a real Major Leaguer.

awh - I take a lot of lambasting here for saying some pretty obvious things. I had no problem signing JC in 2007. He had a couple of nice years in Philly.

It was the more than 1 million he was given this year that irked me. So that's a nice Cloutism there. Changing the subject.

And Mini Mart looked like a real major leaguer today. He had the best hit ball of the day, which was caught. Then he had a single. And he played a good second base.

He takes a lot of garbage on BL. He's not a starter. And he probably isn't one of the best 30 players on the 40 man. But he's no worse than Bocock or a lot of the other dross that dots the 40 man roster.

Sure, if he were not a rule five pick he wouldn't be in the majors. But him being in the lineup today didn't hurt the team even though you'd think he brought about the apocalypse every time he trotted out there. And the same goes for Herndon, who really does seem to have some upside.

TNA: because my hope is they aren't just tradng for a platoon partner and are trading or a full time starter and Rivera has struggled with RH pitchers for a while now while Ibanez is hitting Leties better than righties so far this year. I feel the same way about Rivera that I do Willingham, is he really all that much better than what we've already got?

Yeah, if we signed Romero to the league minimum instead of >$1mil, it would have made it easier to watch him suck. Come on.

smitty, I get ticked at "see I told you so" attitudes. Period.

I didn't even mention mini-mart. Yeah, he look decent today, but that just reminds me of the old saying about the blind squirrel and the nut.

What makes a guy an MLB ballplayer, even a guy on the bench, is the ability to go out and perform like Martinez did today ......on a regular basis.

Starters like JRoll do it almost every game, and maybe 1 game out of 10 is really bad. Starters like Utley do it more often than guys like JRoll.

Guys like Valdez do it often enough to earn bench jobs, but aren't consistently good enough to break into starting lineups.

I'm sure mini-mart has another game or two like today in him. The problem is that we'll have to suffer through 20 - 30 appearances/games before he has another one.

It ain't personal. There are better players in the organization, IMHO, just as there are better pitchers in the organization than J.C. Romero.

I'm happy every time Mini Mart has a good game because I really want him to do well. I want anyone in a Phillies uni to do well.

7 straight and 5.5 games up on the Braves...the Phillies are cruising into Interleague...its good times.

With Aumont pitching well and now promoted to LHV, how long until we get to see them on the same roster? As little as 6 months ago merely suggesting the possibility would have gotten you laughed off BL.

Personally I think it's unlikely this year, no matter how well he pitches. Being yet another righty hurts his chances for a September call up.

FYI: Phils would save NO money if JC Romero refused assignment. His entire contract is guaranteed. Phils would only save the pro-rated league minimum if he signed with another team. David Murphy was mistaken in his earlier tweet.

Aumont will be a Sept callup if he does well in Lehigh. Schwim or DeFratus will be up before that I think. Scwhim is a bit more polished at this point but DeFratus has way more upside out of those two.

Aumont has the best upside of any of them IMHO.

aksmith: Actually, if you go back & read the thread on the day the Romero rumor broke (12-20-10), there were plenty who shared your view about resigning Romero:

NEPP: "I think bringing back Romero would be a mistake."

Me: "God no . . . Romero has stunk since he got off PEDs. Amaro really needs to move on."

Andy: "I don't care what kind of financial discount Romero gives. I'd write the contract to read that he has throw effin strikes."

Fatalotti: "The thought of JC Romero, and his inability to throw strikes, playing on the same team as Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, who walked about 40 people last year in a combined 400+ IP, is almost unfathomable."

Iceman (this is my favorite): "While I think there are only about 5 players alive that BAP doesn't think are 'awful,' I share his surprise that anyone would want Romero back at this point."

clout: "to suggest that Romero is as good as or better than the other available relievers is ignorant in the extreme"

NEPP, as I've never actually seen any of them pitch, I can't/won't say. All I know is what other posters here think and the MiL stats and stories I can read.

In looking over the Reading and LV rosters, the Phillies could be in a pretty good position in 2012/2013 when some of the other pitchers (Lee, Halladay, etc.) are minting coin. They may have a young and inexpensive bullpen with a lot of guys with live arms.

Was this Ruben's undeclared design from the beginning?

Wow...I "called" that Romero would suck. I must be psychic!!!

How about our home field advantage:

Home: 28-12 (.700)
Away: 16-14 (.533)

Teams must love coming into CBP these days.

Schwimer throws a fastball/slider combination (sound familiar?)

His fastball is 91-93 with okay movement and he hides it really well thanks to his big frame and arm movement. He throws 2 sliders (neither of them plus pitches). One is a hard slider and one is a "get me over" slider.

His slider is usually low to mid 80s. He's pretty polished though thanks to be a 4 year college guy.

I agree that Aumont has the best upside. Scwhim's projects as a solid but not elite bullpen arm, DeFratus strikes me as having pre-2011 Madson potential. 8th inning set-up man stuff. Aumont could be a dominating closer if he continues to pull it together.

Just don't know if I see the Phillies having him jump Zagurski and Matheison. Both are pitching well, already have some ML experience, and Zags is a lefty which would be useful.

Here's a thought:

I wonder if the Yankees (not a mistype) would have interest in Romero?

They have only one lefty in the bullpen (Boone Logan), and BOS have a ton of LHH.

Interesting stat about the Yanks: While they have a 38 - 28 record, they're 4 games off of their Pythagorean record of 42 - 24.

Something amiss in the Bronx?

Funny how those comments about Romero represent an almost perfect microcosm of Beerleaguer in general.

NEPP: straightforward, to-the-point, and without bombast.

Me: Lots of bombast.

Andy: Ever the wise-cracker.

Fatalotti: Analytical.

Iceman: Even while agreeing with me, unable to resist a gratuitous potshot.

clout: Sarcastic and dismissive of dissenting views.

bap, for once I have to say...."good post"!

I like when Iceman tosses a snarky jab in one of his posts. It allows you to imagine him snapping his teeth when he says it, and then grinning at Maverick while he chews his gum.

BAP: Weitzel's Dickensian talent for characterization are why I continue watching this show now three years running.

I'll miss JC's swagger. I'll also miss the hop he would do after throwing ball 3 when the count was 2-0. He'd release the pitch, watch it sail wide or in, and then hop and do this little two step shuffle back towards the rubber, almost in disbelief that he, the Captain of Command, could miss the strike zone and fall so very behind on a hitter.

Was fun to watch the guy when he was effective, and just like every other important cog on that 2008 WS team, he'll have my eternal admiration.

Stats coming into today:

Jayson Werth 65 games, .239BA, 9HR, 25RBI, .755OPS
Domonic Brown 24 games, .228BA, 4HR, 11RBI, .754OPS

Slightly under in BA and OPS, but Dom has exactly 44% of Werth's production in only 37% of the games. While only making 4% of his salary. (414k vs 10mil).

This is from the writeup on Brian Gordon's first start for the Yankees today:

"Gordon clawed his way back to this moment by going 5-0 this season with an International League-best 1.14 ERA for Triple-A Lehigh Valley in the Phillies' organization.

The Phillies sent out a league-wide e-mail last week notifying clubs that Gordon was available, and Yankees general manager Brian Cashman contacted them."

Is that standard protocol when a guy can opt out of his contract, or did the Phillies do Gordon a favor?

Whether they go to Seattle up 5 or 6 in the division it was nice to build up some space going into a tough stretch of the schedule.

awh, I think its a pretty standard protocol. Still, its a classy move by the Phillies to do it instead of just cutting the guy loose.

I find it hard to say anything too terrible about that guy who got it done in '07 and '08. However, when I prefer David Herndon and Danys Baez to you, that means it's time to go.

I attempted to watch the Braves and the Mets, but it's impossible to watch a game when you want both teams to suffer humiliating losses.

F**KIN Chipper Jones!

I think most people agreed that Romero was a bad idea for this season.

Most people also agreed that Romero was a key part of the 07 and 08 bullpens.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

I'm tryin to read through the thread but, it's fertile. Andy (hero) quoted him/ herself from way back when:
"I don't care what kind of financial discount Romero gives. I'd write the contract to read that he has throw effin strikes."

Exactamundo. The man didn't throw strikes - then or now. He was a magician. They figured it out.

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