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Tuesday, May 17, 2011


What a waste. It's a damn shame 2011's rotation will never meet 2007's offense. They'd get along great.

Baez is off to Singapore to get a couple of ribs removed so he can suck himself off

It's mid May. Loads of injuries. Phuck it!

Michael Martinez = Phillies player of the game. Discuss.

If this doesn't get Baez his marching orders, I don't know what will....

Maybe the gut was making a point to Rube tonight.

I have not been thrilled with The Bastard either. Except for that lucky at bat when he came back from 3-0, his control has not been useful. I am willing to do the turn all 5 in draw poker method with this bullpen.

Not only do I not want Baez pitching in a tie game in the 9th, but JC with the bases loaded? Yikes.

(RP From Game Thread. Unnecessary? Yes. But I'm That Damn Livid.)

That was one of the most brainless, ignorant, inexplicably bizarre & incompetent managerial performances I have ever seen. Truly breathtaking, even by Charlie's notoriously poor standard ...

Madson was available. Madson warmed up alongside Baez. I mean, Charlie seemed to know it was the right thing to do, & prepared as such ...

I am STUPEFIED as to how Ryan never managed to get into this game. Unless he's injured -- God forbid -- there is no possible acceptable explanation.

All this talk is because they didn't hit. And you don't use your closer in a tie game on the road. If you do, Baez/Romero becomes the closer if and when you take the lead.

I say we kidnap Baez and either ship him to Siberia, or hold him for the ransom price of a good hitter. Power hitter? Or high-average hitter?

Mini Mart gets lots of hate on here but I would rather him on the roster than Valdez.

Killer losing Stutes to that oblique. That is the kind of injury that almost always takes at least 4-5 weeks to get over. At least Contreras should be back in another 10-14 days.

If there is a team that needs a rain out and a day off tomorrow, it is the Phils.

TTI -- How can you cheer for this? I'll repeat myself, and you can toss any insult that you wish my way. I don't care:

The absence of Madson is inexcusable. This team is spinning out of control, and the chaos is greased by “Hunch” Manual.

Fire Charlie. There. I said it.

Old Phan/MG: On some level I agree. My contention though comes from knowing this. If Charlie uses Madson in the 9th and it goes 11 or 12 and we lose the game because Romero or Baez is in the game to close and blows it there would be people on here (and maybe you would be one of them) saying, "Really smart to blow our closer in the 9th."

My point is that there were a lot of ways for that to blow up in Charlie's face and he opted for the road that almost every other manager in MLB right now would opt for. It didn't work for him tonight.

"Baez/Romero becomes the closer if and when you take the lead."

That's much better than them pitching in a tie game.

BobbyD- traditional baseball orthodoxy and Cholly followed it to a tee. Unlike popular opinion, Cholly is very much a manager who goes by traditional baseball orthodoxy and rarely plays 'hunches.'

MG: I agree on Martinez. I think he gives more versatility than Valdez. The problem is you are relying on Martinez at the back-up shortstop then. I'd rather roll the dice though on Martinez as the 25th man on the roster.

Not Charlie's fault that everyone is injured, the team can't hit, and two of his healthy relievers are washed up.

MG: What if Rollins goes down? You'd risk being without Valdez, who is a very good SS?

Tti- that is the only thing valdez brings. His defensive ability last year at SS. Valdez is just woeful at the plate. Just guessing right now and swinging through the ball time and time again.

Good thing tonight is that Oswalt was back and generally looked decent. I just wonder how many starts it will take him to rebuild his stamina.

Go home. Pound some buds and lose another one tomorrow.

RAJ needs to release Baez & Romero. And get a bat. And get one of those Star Trek TNG things that Dr. Crusher uses to heal everyone quickly.

MG -- By the book my a$$. How the hell is playing Valdez, then Mini-Mart in the 2 hole on consecutive nights not a "hunch"? Allowing so many extra plate appearances for those 2 stiffs is absolutely inexcusable.

Listen Danys, there must be a power hitting Cuban ready to jump ship. Go get him.

Cut, what magical players should play in their places?

Cut, what magical players should play in their places?

Old Phan: I will drive the f*ck to Iowa & sign Moonlight Graham myself if I have to.

Sardinha tag at the plate was really weak and is symbolic of the generally mediocre defense they have played this month even though it hasn't shown up on the scorecard in terms of errors.

This isn't a good defensive team especially when Ruiz or Vic are sidelined. It is nice to Mayberry in LF.

Phan -- Anyone but 2 of the most impotent offensive forces since Steve Jeltz. How about Orr both nights? At least he can turn on a pitch at least once in a while.

kells: The Phillies outfield combined with their TV crew is the worst combo in MLB.

I'm just getting to the game thread now, and I know we don't like +1, but there is so much truth in this statement that it needed to be posted again.

It's really silly to be railing on that when the Phillies had 5 hits and Martinez was two of them.

I like Iron Orr but he is not going to make a huge difference in the lineup and Mini Mart is playing because Vic isn't.
The reality is, the team is just going to have to hang tough until their team gets healthy again. Good thing is they've done it before with success.

I really had hope that Baez could actually help them a bit and be a serviceable reliever this year after a quality spring. He mentally turtled on the mound tonight. You could see it in his body language. He couldn't get out of that game fast enough.

Normally Philly fans are unduly harsh and over the top in their criticism of a player. Baez is deserving of the boos he will likely hear on this upcoming homestand. He stole money last year and looks like he is well on his way to doing so again.

Wow, what a crappy loss.

Then again, every loss is crappy.

I've read a lot of comments on here attributing this to Charlie's management of the bullpen. And those who think Charlie effed up by putting in a RP who suck against RH hitters won't get an argument form me. You're entitled to your opinion.

BUT....the fact remains that overall the pitching staff allowed 2 runs in 8.1 IP....a 2.22 ERA.

The offense scored one (1) run.

That's why they lost.

Now, that's not to say that Danys Baez belongs on a Major League Baseball pitching staff. He's fast proving that he doesn't.

And, I'm certainly not saying that someone like Mathieson is the answer.....but could he have been any worse than Baez?

awh, the opposing team also only had 1 run until the bullpen imploded.

Sardinha tag at the plate was really weak and is symbolic of the generally mediocre defense they have played this month even though it hasn't shown up on the scorecard in terms of errors.

MG: Good point. Dane Sardinha's non-play at the plate was the worst play I've seen any Catcher make since Dane Sardinha somehow failed to tag Jayson Werth, who he had dead to rights a good 5 feet in front of the plate ... & that was the worst play I've seen any Catcher make since the infamous Barajas "For Who? For What? Olé!" disgrace, which occurred almost exactly 4 years ago.

MG, Baez didn't turtle on the mound.

Did you see the look on his face as he was warming up?

It was DITHL all the way.

He has clearly become a "not-ready-for-prime-time-player".

Baez looks like is right out of the casting crew from the '07 Phils' pen. Right along side Rosario and Mesa.

MG, I disagree.

Baez is WORSE than Rosario and Mesa.

He's been so bad that he would have been cut from that 2007 bullpen.

G-Twon, I appreciate you bringing up the past.

I really, really try as hard as I can to forget that Rod Barajas actually wore a Phillies uniform at one time.

Thanks for the memories. :(

Oh where, oh where is John Lannan when the Phillies need him?

TTI – You appear to have cited an example of the "small sample size" phenomena. If a manager runs out an offensively challenged player at the top of the order any more than very rarely I believe that it demoralizes the entire team.

What were 2 hits worth in the face of a team that appears to be on the verge of panicking? No one capitalized on Martinez reaching base. I’d rather see those 2 hits at the bottom of the order.

On the other hand, you’re probably spot on. Who cares? This team can’t punch its way out of a wet paper bag.

TTI. I understand the point you are making, but there are times when overall strategy (viz., what happens in later innings) ought to bow to tactical necessities (viz., what is happening right now). The failure to consider the immediate problem more important than a potential one is Manuel's trademark. It bit him right on the pecker this time.

Good point on Sardinha. Reminds me of the play against the Marlins with Rod Barajas. If you're trying to stay on a team, failing to sacrifice your body is the last straw. I hope he gets cut tomorrow -- just to send a point. It's not like letting GG go would do anything...

I'm going to the game tomorrow and I'm looking forward to either A.) CarGo and Tulo or B.) A Rainout

Fire Cholly? Please. This is just a banged-up and depleted team that is playing some good teams & struggling.

The sad thing is that Mini Mart's 2 hits guarantee him a start the 2-hole.

kuvasz: And it's the move almost every other manager in the majors makes. It's a stock move and certainly not unique to Charlie.

Yea, the fire Cholly thing is ridiculous.

Sardinha's no defensive whiz but, I thought Berkman just schooled him with teh slide. Impossible to block the plate and catch that. Would have needed to give up the plate to make a catch and tag on that throw. This game was lost at the plate. Same as the last 3. Garcia was no slouch, though. He didn't break a sweat against this lineup.

I say release Sardane Can and have him be signed by the Braves for minimum wage. Then he can post an 1100 OPS against the Phillies and call four no-hitters.

Stock move=/=correct move.

awh -- You're correct; I'd say book it.

TTI -- Just once I'd like to see a "shut down" maneuver by Charlie that doesn't play to something from his "hunch" or a stock, non-SABRE old school move. We needed to steal a win tonight; why not bring in Madson to save a chance at another 3 outs?

Hugh, if Sardinha even so much as just lunges at Berkman as opposed to just pushing his hands toward him, he gets him. He had the throw with plenty of time. Just dive at the runner sliding, and you've got him. It was a complete lack of any real effort, and should get him demoted. You don't show effort when you're a AAA player playing in the bigs, you don't get to play any more. Simple.

Fatti - I only watched one replay of that play but, to my eyes, Sardinha kept his right foot planted in front of the plate and caught the ball going to his left. It seemed to me that a 'lunge' back to his right was a pretty difficult maneuver at that point. It did look like an 'ole' tag but, I don't think it was a failure of effort.

Tie game, on the Road, 8th Inning. If Charlie had no intention of using Madson, why get him up in the 'pen at that moment? He had Madson & Baez warmed up in the 8th, brought in Baez for the 9th, & then warmed up & brought in Romero ... all w/ the single best pitcher in his bullpen sitting there, ready to go. Charlie's explanation makes no sense whatsoever. He has no idea how long the game might have remained tied, besides which, if he had no intention of using Madson until extra innings, why get him up in the 8th at all?

No doubt - it was a play that could have and should have been made. I hate seeing Sardinha crucified for the play, though. Berkman did a nice job.

Fata -- if only. Why not Tuffy Gosewisch? How much worse could he be?

Nobody should be surprised with this loss. JW used an opposing player in the game thread. A loss was guaranteed with that.

you guys are really a fan of this game. Well, even though I never play basketball but still I like the game. In this case, both of us really love sports. :-)

is there any real reason for mayberry not to be starting over ben fran at this point? mayberry's been better at the plate, plays better defense, and has speed on the bases. i really hope ben fran is moving back to his usual 4th outfielder role. and i think we're just screwed on power. with a healthy lineup, i don't expect 20 HRs from anybody but howard and a full season of utley.

I think that game was a positive loss. We learned a couple things.

Oswalt was sharp and he had his giddy-up. Good decision to let him face major leaguers tonight. Fox Sports Midwest clocked one o fhis pitches at 96, many of them 93+. The DP to Pujols was huge.
Pujols' double was best described on the Cards broadcast as "Francisco lost in the sun on the warning track" an hour after dark. The guy needs a utility role.
Tony Bastard will have some hiccups but, he has great stuff.
Pete Orr is not a .500 hitter as a pinch hitter. He and Valdez are fighting for 25th man in this super-extended spring.
Pujols illustrated the fact that it is better to be lucky than good. 5 should have had an 0fer.
Ryan Madson only pitches in a tie game at home. But, we already knew this. . .

"And you don't use your closer in a tie game on the road. If you do, Baez/Romero becomes the closer if and when you take the lead."

This is one of those little bits of baseball orthodoxy that is just insanity. When it's a tie game in the 9th inning, you worry about the 9th inning. You don't worry about a 10th inning that may never happen. Besides, where in the rule book does it say that your best reliever can't pitch 2 innings?

TTI. I like you and consistently agree with you more than anyone else on BL.

But, no, its not. Manuel has shown a consistent pattern of playing for some misty potential instead of for the hard present. The guy is the proverbial Jack (as in the Beanstalk)... His magic beans are home runs.

You see it when he pinch hits a lefty in the 7-8th inning with ducks on the pond in a close game while holding back Gload for a a "potential" plate appearance in the ninth. It has blown up in his face repeatedly.

Whenever I hear about such lofty considerations unanchored in immediacy I am reminded of an interview that Edmund Hillary gave upon his descent from Mt. Everest. He was asked what he was thinking about once he ascended the highest point in the world. He said that he felt a rush of noble pride and exhilaration for man and country.

They asked the same question to Hillary's Sherpa guide, Tenzing Norgay, whose response seems more in touch with the reality of the situation...... "How to get down."

You win when you get the chance, you prevent losses whenever you can. And your first immediately thought should be how to get off of Everest and not how to climb K2.

kuvasz: Brilliant analogy. Seriously.

Sardinha's blunder cost them the game. Had he tagged the runner out (as any other major league catcher would have done) the score would have been 1-0 Phils going into the 9th. Madson rather than the horrific Baez would have pitched and the Phils would have won. Haven't we had enough of Sardinha?

The Phillies should hire Tenzing Norgay, or his baseball equivalent. Seriously, you nailed Manuel. His late inning approach is heavily dependent on aiming to get lightning to strike.

kuvasz: Great anecdote. I hadn't heard that one before. And it's quite apropos RE: Charlie's managerial style ... insomuch as Charlie actually has a managerial style.

Bring back Milt

$100,000,000 of pitching surprisingly buys you no offense.

I had enough of Sardinha before he ever got called up.

Every year, people say that the so-called "25th man" on our roster doesn't matter, so it makes no difference if the Phillies want to dedicate a roster spot to a guy who is not, in fact, our 25th best player. But this year we're devoting about 5 roster spots to guys who are not among the top 25 players in our organization:

Kratz is indisputably better than Sardinha. So, for that matter, is Tuffy Gosewich.

Worley is indisputably better than Baez, Mathieson & Romero.

Domonic Brown must surely be better than Ben Francisco and Raul Ibanez and, if he isn't, the team sure as heck won't be any worse off for finding out.

Ronny Belliard is almost certainly better -- at least at the plate -- than Pete Orr or Michael Martinez.

Even Jason Grilli is very likely better than Baez.

The injuries can't be helped but, when your team is scoring 1 run a night, the least you can do is to put your 25 best guys on the field. We're not even trying to do so.

Yeah, at this point, Dom Brown could spend the whole season struggling to figure out major league pitching and still do better than Ibanez and Francisco. He'd certainly hit for more power than either of those guys, even if his average hovered around .220 all year.

Poop... what's the countdown at for when hittin' season starts?

Maybe Utz can bring a statistically significant irrational bump to the lineup when he gets back. Here's to hope and to the fact that we really only need 3 runs to win a game with these starters. We'll snap out of this, guys.

Ebb and flow. Long season.

The baseball gods are angry start to pray. Will soon run out of players due to injury an have to pull fans in to play....Pray...

We need to get through May. Utley will return giving Howard the much needed protection he needs, Polancs can move back to 2nd. Put Vic 5th, he has better power and avg. than Ibby or Francisco. If Ibanez doesn't not cut the crap, call up Brown in June, play Mayberry more often.

Phillies are 17-2 (or something) when scoring 4 or more runs. We bring 4 across the plate and we won't need anyone in the pen other than Bastardo, Contreras and Mad Dog.

Time is the answer.

Hey Hugh, The Phillies had a Tenzing Norgay. He was called David Lopes.

Pheelin' Good is right. But patience is a virtue that many fans don't possess.

So, lets see...

Vic will probably be DL'd tomorrow. My guess, is that Dom Brown (even though its not ideal with him also coming off an injury) will be recalled.

Stutes probably goes on the DL. Contreras will likely take his place (although he would have taken Mathieson's place) when he is ready (by this weekend???). I have no idea who they bring up if its not Contreras. Herndon again?

Sardeens needs to go. He never should have came in the first place. He has botched two plays at the plate now, in limited action. That play tonight, is a play that just about every catcher in the big leagues has to make. The throw was a good one. Should have been a out. If you are a guy like that, who can't hit and can't run and is a backup player (at best) to begin with, you have to make EVERY routine play and play spotless defense. He hasn't done that. He has to go.

Kratz may not be the defensive catcher that you'd like, but he has a pretty decent bat. And right now as lame as the hitting from the catcher's have been, we'll take anyone who can string a couple of hits together from that position.

So, we theoretically could have 3 roster moves made on Wednesday. Sardeens DFA'd (likely back to Lehigh). Vic and Stutes DL'd. Brown and Herndon recalled. Kratz's contract is purchased and he is added to 40 man.

The probable lineup against DeLaRosa? Ibanez, Mayberry and Francisco in the OF. Polanco, Rollins, ValDPez and Howard in the IF. Ruiz and Hamels.

Brown starts in RF, on Thursday.

And I'll say Utley returns on Monday, in time for the Reds series. Orr (because he has an option) is sent to Lehigh to join their crowded infield of former major league players. Utley starts at 2B, hitting 2nd, on Monday in front of a revved up home crowd.

The Phils need to chill out and start having some fun playing the game.

Has there been visual proof that JW has purchased a Baez jersey yet or is he waiting for it to hit the post-designated-for-Assignment clearance rack?

The Phils are 4-7 over their last 11 games. They have scored 28 runs over that stretch, or 2.54 per game.

What's really sad is that is the pitching has been very good over the last 11 games, only surrendering 3.27 runs per game. You should, at the very least, be playing .500 ball if you're giving up only 3.27 runs per game. As it is, they've been playing .364 ball over that stretch. This offense needs to be renovated before the month is over.

The majority of games, once everyone is healthy, should feature the following:

J-Roll SS
Utley 2B
Polly 3B
Howard 1B
Victorino CF
Mayberry LF
Brown RF
Ruiz C

I don't have a good feeling about ever seeing the line-up Fats has drawn up. What is clear from last night is LaRussa's "beard / no beard / groomed beard" policy.

Despite the Fox Sports West gun, Oswalt topped out at 94.4 mph last night, not 96. Their gun was about 2 mph hot all night.

94.4 is more than enough fastball for Oswalt. His curveball looked really good last night.

Teams go through slumps every tear. Phils did it last year.

My issue is with player evaluation at his point. I will never be able to comprehend why Baez is still pitching for the Phillies (or any other MLB team for that matter) and yet they demote a guy like Vance Worley?

Don't try the whole "out of options" or "we're paying him too much to be in the minor leagues" BS, because that doesn't fly. This is the major leagues where your job is to win baseball games. Cut your ties (even it means losing money) with guys like Baez and Romero and replace them with guys who get the job done.

It's so aggravating.

94.4 is totally fine...I just wanted to clarify that it was a hot gun regardless.

Man, I am really glad Vance Worley got the chance to "stretch out" down in Lehigh Valley when the Phillies were facing the prospect of a tie game in the 9th inning, the potential of many extra innings, and no more long man in the 'pen after burning through KK in 1 inning.

That roster move, as much as anything else, is probably why you see Baez in the 9th. Otherwise, I bet it's Worley. Who's head is that roster move on? Charlie or Amaro?

I sometimes find myself hoping that G Town Dave and cut_fastball are not responsible for anything more than flipping burgers, just for the sake of others.

Also, since when is "Well, every other manager does it" ever an appropriate excuse for doing something boneheaded?

I thought that excuse lost any validity sometime during middle school.

Fat - Unfortunately, Utley = 3 hole according to Manuel. Anything else does not compute. We will be seeing left-handed relievers completely neutralize Utley and Howard for the rest of the season. Same as it ever was.

It's no secret how I feel about Charlie. I wrote a nice little rant about Charlie yesterday, so this will be an addendum.

This guy should have been fired two years ago. The manager's job is to get his team to play hard and put them in a position to win. He had an amazingly talented team and great coaching staff who won games for him. To Charlie's credit, he kept everyone in line, happy and playing hard. That was his role and he did it well. Now, not as much.

Recall who his initial coaching staff was in '06: Jimy Williams, Art Howe, Davy Lopes. Three former managers with varying styles, varied approaches and degrees of success. The coaching staff has gone downhill since then, and coincidentally, so has the in-game decision making.

Before someone "calls me on it", I realize that Art Howe left before the '07 season started. The point is that Gillick was most likely aware of Charlie's skill set and decided that he better have a top-notch coaching staff behind him. Doesn't speak too highly of Charlie's managerial skills, does it?

It's no secret how I feel about Charlie. I wrote a nice little rant about Charlie yesterday, so this will be an addendum.

This guy should have been fired two years ago. The manager's job is to get his team to play hard and put them in a position to win. He had an amazingly talented team and great coaching staff who won games for him. To Charlie's credit, he kept everyone in line, happy and playing hard. That was his role and he did it well. Now, not as much.

Recall who his initial coaching staff was in '06: Jimy Williams, Art Howe, Davy Lopes. Three former managers with varying styles, varied approaches and degrees of success. The coaching staff has gone downhill since then, and coincidentally, so has the in-game decision making.

Posted by: R.Billingsly

So Charlie shouldn't have been the coach of the 2009 and 2010 teams? The same team that made it to the WS and then the NLCS? Granted they lost both, but this was due to Charlie's inability to make the Phillies play hard? He was simply the one benefiting from great hitting/pitching/base coaches and Charlie is an Emperor with No Clothes?

Pass the bong bud.

Heather: You've been comparing Charlie to your boys LaRussa and Maddon for a couple years now in order to continually and constantly bash him. But others try to defend him by comparing him to the rest of MLB managers and you get on your high horse and call them middle schoolers. Good stuff.

What do you guys think we should do witht his line up??? Who could we possibly trade for??

Honestly the way this team is constructed we are built to win NOW!

We have some trading chips to work with: Singleton, Cosart, Colvin, Pettibone, May, Rizzotti and a few others in the minor leagues. Clearwater is pretty stacked in regards to the level of talent. Why not trade these guys away to get a right handed bat because there is absoultely no way this can continue!

Howard is completely lost because he isn't getting anything to hit because no one is scared of anyone who bats behind him. Even when Utley gets back, and you put him in the 3rd spot, that still doesn't solve your problems in the 5 hole.

I would love to get someone like Justin Upton, even though it would be a hefty price I would do it. Imagine if the rumors for Blanton for Young were true, well then Ruben is a fool for not doing it, but again we are dealing with rumors.

So Charlie shouldn't have been the coach of the 2009 and 2010 teams?


Here's another thing to consider. EVEN if you are so against Madson starting the ninth, I doubt you can argue against the following. When Baez had runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs, what are the two things you want...nay...NEED most in the world?

A strikeout or a ground ball for a double play.

Well, Madson strikes out 10.7 per nine this year, and induces ground balls on 65% of his pitches.

Baez, strikes out 3.4 per nine and has a ground ball rate of 50%.

both batters have walked the same amount per nine.

Who should have been in the game?

Obviously, without debate, Ryan Madson.

Of course, the manager didn't agree. That's why he gets paid the big bucks, right?

Also, in the bottom of the 9th, the Phillies had zero margin for error in a tie game, as they couldn't give up ANY runs. If they were to get a lead in the top of the 10th, they would, be definition, have more margin for error.

Does anyone really want to contend that it's better to use your worse relievers when you have no margin for error, and your better relievers when you have more margin for error?

Kendrick should have started the eighth even with Berkman hitting left handed.

Maybe we can hire Ron Gardenhire as our bench coach when the Twins make a panic move and fire him after their terrible start. Then we'd have the best manager in baseball in our dugout.

Also, UC is a good manager despite his tactical limitations.

So Charlie shouldn't have been the coach of the 2009 and 2010 teams?


Posted by: R.Billingsly |

Ironically you leave out 2008 - you felt he was good that year or that you'd coupe with his coaching inadequacies? What changed after the the World Series that would make you give Charlie his walking papers? Was it all that weight he lost?

Sounds like this is a lot of hindsight on your part - unless you have some posts you can link to demanding Charlie be released after the Phillies win the WFC in 08.

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