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Wednesday, May 25, 2011

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Fred Wilpon is just a bitter loser.

From the last thread:

"what exactly are the chances that 2 of Utley, Polly, and/or Rollins get hurt in the same game?"

Probably very slim. But a more realistic concern is that one of the above three gets hurt and it occurs late in the game, after we've already used Valdez to pinch hit.

Posted by: bay_area_phan | Wednesday, May 25, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Easy solution there: You put Chooch at 3B and move Polly to the other position in need. Its been done before FWIW.

The New Yorker article has gotten the most play, but the S.I. article has some good info too:

Wilpon says the Mets "are bleeding cash" and acknowledges that they stand to lose as much as $70 million this year.

Though the Mets will have about $64 million in salaries coming off the books after this season (from a $142 million total), they will not put much, if any, of that money back into the major league payroll. The Mets essentially have forfeited the resource advantages of playing in the country's biggest market with a new ballpark and their own regional television network, SNY, which they launched in 2006.

The Mets are probably the most disfunctional franchise in all of sports...they're definitely the worst in baseball from top to bottom and its all stemming from the Wilpons.

And yet Mark Cuban isnt allowed to buy an MLB franchise because he'd be too disruptive.

I didn't read the article but, I understand he's projecting a loss of up to $70 million this season. I'd like to hear him work around that information when trying to sell a minority interest in the team. "Sure we're badly mismanaged and we've exhausted all our credit facilities but, hey, we'll turn this ship around with your money and, if we ever do decide to authorize the sale of the team, you'll definitely see a return on your investment."

BAP- why in the name of all that is holy would you pinch hit with Valdez?

No mention of how former Phillies great Jayson Werth has been tearing up the league since he became a Natinal? Now why would that be ... ?

JBird-because Hamels was already used.

Jbird - Because Charlie sensed the wind was favorable.

Werth has an .847 OPS for May. He's basically hitting like his typical career at this point. His overall .792 OPS is still nearly 100 points better than any of our current corner OFs.

"The Mets are probably the most disfunctional franchise in all of sports...they're definitely the worst in baseball from top to bottom and its all stemming from the Wilpons."

Nah. Dodgers beat the Mets. There are several NBA franchises (e.g., Kings, Bobcats) and a few in the NHL.

I feel little empathy for Wilpon either though. He had no problem accepting his annual magic double digit return from Madoff regardless of what the market did including when it really bottomed out after the tech boom. He judged poorly and now is acting like a petulant child who is going to have his toy taken away from him shortly.

But he doesnt have 100 RBI, so hes not good.

NEPP, but his May OPS is still worse than Ibanez. Basically Werth has had a better worse start than Raul. (To be clear, I'd still rather have Werth, salaries notwithstanding.)

@JBird--because the opposing manager replaced his righty pitcher with a lefty to turn Mini-Mart around?

I shudda said LaRussa instead of "the opposing manager"

JBird: Maybe because there's a LHP in the game & you've burned all other right-handed pinch hitters (of which there's really only 1). Maybe because it's a long extra-inning game where the entire bench got emptied. Maybe because you needed a pinch hitter early in the game & Cholly wanted to save his better right-handed bats for later (as he often does).

If the situation ever arose, we'd probably do what NEPP says. And it would only be a one-game problem, since we could call up a replacement immediately afterwards. So I'm not saying the upside doesn't outweigh the risk. I'm just trying to accurately identify the risk.

The Mets are way worse than the Dodgers...they just have the luxury of being BFF with Selig.

Hopefully if the team carries 6 outfielders, Valdez will only see at bats on the days he starts.

NEPP, I wasn't clear. Werth had a better worse start than Ibanez, but Ibanez has had a better recovery. I still prefer Werth in a perfect world, but that isn't exactly a bold declaration.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=6581022

Some good reading. I wonder what the M's were thinking with those two deals...

Regardless of everything said in the last thread, I still fully expect them to keep Mini Mart for the entire season regardless of the practicality of doing so.

Well, Bill Bavasi earned that title of Worst GM in Baseball.

NEPP: Since when is being slightly better than a bunch of stiffs reason for praise? True, if Werth were still here he would have the best OPS of the Phillies' corner OFs. He'd also be buried nightly for gross under-performance. And rightfully so.

Now MG, when you say "accepted" you do realize he never actually got any of that money, he just sort of accepted the fact that his money was "there" (floating around somewhere out in the ether) just like the rest of us do when we "accep"t statements from 401Ks, banks and investment firms and hedge funds?

noname - Two words. Bill Bavasi. One of the worst GMs the last

The guy was the VP of player development & scouting for the Mariners at the time of both those terrible deals?

That's right. Benny Looper who is now the Phils' assistant GM of player personnel. As often in life, who gets promoted to the top in the corporate world doesn't necessarily have all that much to do with actual results or performance of the units they managed.

How's this as an example of how much offense has dropped off around the league in the last few years:

Werth's OPS & OPS+
2007: .863 & 120
2011: .790 & 118


His OPS is 73 points lower than it was in 2007 but his OPS+ (measure against his peers neutralized for league offense and ballpark) is nearly identical.

An .800 OPS is suddenly pretty good for a corner OF. Even with his slow start, Werth is 26th in the Majors for OPS among OFs.

Speaking of cash, I think keeping Brown in the Majors as a semi productive piece (.250/.290/.380), which he more than likely will be, is going to give us a better chance to win over the next two years because the cost flexibility he gives us to sign a SS, OF, RP, etc the next few years is >>>> maxing out our budget by adding a productive (.285/.320/.420) corner OF who's arbitration costs are volatile.

For this thread, I really hope it doesn't come out that the Mets were in on Madoff's schemes. That would be a black eye for a marquee (if incredibly annoying) franchise and for the league.

*whose

raul - It is the exact same thing.

"The guy was the VP of player development & scouting for the Mariners at the time of both those terrible deals?"

Well, couldn't you make the argument that Looper was involved in drafting/acquiring those prospects-who are stars with the Indians-in the first place?

I think we are being too hard on Wilpon for the Madoff thing. Madoff had broshures, files, pie charts, investment strategies, prospectus' the works. All fraudulent, but real and tangible. Wilpon bought into it because he thought Madoff was a better version of Peter Lynch (best portfolio manager of all time, read his books very good). Madoff's premise was all about properly hedging his bets with a complicated series of put and call options. Wilpon may be business savy, but understanding the complexities of a hedge fund are near impossible.

BB - Possibly. I always find it odd how you defend Looper though even though he was almost universally criticized for his management tenure with the M's as Bavasi's right-hand man.

Now if Wilpon KNEW it was a PONZI scheme, then shame on him and he deserves what he gets.

G-Town: I don't expect Werth to ever replicate that .921 OPS of last year. And even if he posts an .850-ish OPS for the next few years (which is reasonably likely), the Phillies were right not to resign him at that price. Nonetheless the fact remains that he did post a .921 OPS last year & our offense was a lot better for it. This year, we have no one in our OF who has even the slightest chance of getting within .70 points of Werth's 2010 figure, and our offense is a lot worse for it.

noname - Anybody who can return you double digit returns annually regardless of what the overall market does even in down years is a con. It's that simple. Fund managers can beat the market significantly over the short-term of a few years but not over a period of decades.

Rich dudes are among the most clueless and manipulatable (is that a word?).

True story from 2002. In an investment office.

Rauls grandpa: Thanks for coming in.

Rich dude: No problem. What's up?

Rauls grandpa: I just took over this assignment and wanted to call you wondering if you were aware that we (people in this office before me) have called and sent multiple letters to you and your lawyer to suggest you move your assets for the last 3 years.

Rich dude: Well, I know what I am doing and I trust Mr. So and So's opinion.

Rauls grandpa: Mr. So and So is uh, no longer with the company...since approx. 1998.

Rich Dude: well, I am confident Enron will rebound, I hear about them on the radio all the time and I am sure all of this silliness is going to blow over any time now. Anyway, I have around 1.2 mil involved, it will be fine.

Rauls grandpa: Well, it was 1.2...

MG--you are write about everyone but Peter Lynch from Fidelity. You can't time the market, you can't beat the market. That is the first thing they teach you in a good business school. I am just saying that at this point, Madoff had been running the scam for 30 years. It's not like Wilpon was alone in blindly following the guy.

right** sorry

nonamePH - Have you read Harry Markopolos's book? A little long winded, but a pretty good indictment of Madoff, the hedge fund industry insiders who suspected something fishy (but profited and looked the other way), and the lack of industry regulation at large.

As someone who knows little of hedge fund complexities, if I had the financial resources that Wilpon did, I would have done due diligence and paid somebody (like Mr. Markopolos) to investigate the strategy (which didn't pass the smell test) and give me the Cliff Note's version. How many millions did Wilpon lose because he simply trusted this guy?

FWIW, if Jayson Werth were to post an .850 OPS this year, that would pretty much be right in line with his performance last year if you factor in the league dropoff in offense.

Right now, an .850 OPS is a 141 OPS+. Werth posted a 145 OPS+ last year with his .921 OPS.

Offense is down again...severely so.

"The club’s three best players -- David Wright (back), Angel Pagan (ribs) and Ike Davis (ankle) -- are all on the DL."

not to nitpick, but isn't carlos beltran better than both davis and pagan?

b_a_p: Overpaid is overpaid. I'm simply glad the Phillies aren't the ones doing the overpaying. I'm sure there is middle ground between Werth & Francisco. That the Phillies felt it unnecessary to seek said middle ground is a separate issue.

For those defending Wilpon, or anyone else involved with Madoff, give me a break.

Sure, at the micro level, Madoff's supposed split-strike hedge strategy was very difficult to understand, at least on a day-to-day basis. But the fundamental principle of hedging to smooth out returns and minimize losses should have told anyone with the smallest bit of financial acumen that a 10-12% return every year regardless of market conditions was a sham.

Wilpon and others like him were willfully blind to it because they thought they were making easy money.

As always, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Also not to nitpick, but Reyes should easily be in the top 3 Met, well over Pagan.

I almost feel bad for the Mets.....ALMOST being the key word

"MG--you are write about everyone but Peter Lynch from Fidelity. You can't time the market, you can't beat the market. That is the first thing they teach you in a good business school. I am just saying that at this point, Madoff had been running the scam for 30 years. It's not like Wilpon was alone in blindly following the guy."

1. Market timing is almost complete BS. It only people who are enriched by high-volume trading in a fund are the brokerages making the trades and collecting their tiny of flesh. Those really add up when you starting getting into the millions and billions. It is amazing how much of the volume today on the NYSE and NASDAQ is from automated high-frequency systems that are based in various places (Northern NJ, White Plains, Southern CT).

2. Finance MBAs even at the best business school aren't the movers and shakers anymore. Simply can't hack the math. Haven't been for several years. It is the PhDs in Finance and other math specialties that run the game at the boutiques and hedge funds.

by the way - how the f88k is Kyle Lohse almost better than Halladay this year?

Why would one assume that, simply because a man is wealthy, he necessarily has even the "smallest bit of financial acumen"? Quite frankly, I don't think Fred Wilpon is all that bright. Nor do I believe he had any knowledge of Madoff's scams. Hell, just look at the way in which he let Omar Minaya run his franchise into the ground, while spending hand over fist to do so. The notion of Fred Wilpon as devious financial schemer is nearly impossible for me to grasp.

http://twitter.com/#!/FakeFredWilpon

"I know for a fact that Reyes, Beltran and Wright never read The New Yorker so I don't expect this to be a big deal."

Pretty much Twitter feed.

GTown,
He's not a devious financial schemer, just a greedy pr8ck who was happy to look the other way while he thought he was banking $700 million in profit.

He clearly believed in his Madoff investments - they're the reason why he agreed to pay Bonilla $5.9 million at 8% interest over 25 years...because he could take the $5.9 million and give it to Madoff to make 10%, thus making a profit on the deal(!)

Greed, pure and simple, made him a true believer in Bernie. Madoff's scheme provided the cash flow for the Mets for years. Time for Wilpon to pay the piper to the tune of $1 billion.

"BB - Possibly. I always find it odd how you defend Looper though even though he was almost universally criticized for his management tenure with the M's as Bavasi's right-hand man. "

I would say "Possibly" is fair. . I find it odd how you jump on Looper immediately. I'm unaware of any "universal criticism" of Looper, other than from an anonymous commenter on Beerleaguer. To be fair, I don't even think the guy is a genius, just unworthy of your scorn, which started from the time of the Lee trade. By the way, he was smart enough to turn down top M's prospect Michael Saunders.

lorecore: Because 5 of Lohse's 10 starts have come vs. the bottom 5 teams in the NL in Offense (vs. 3 starts for Halladay). Also, because StL. leads the NL in Offense. Halladay is getting no such help.

***Hell, just look at the way in which he let Omar Minaya run his franchise into the ground, while spending hand over fist to do so. The notion of Fred Wilpon as devious financial schemer is nearly impossible for me to grasp.***

Not to defend Minaya as he's an idiot too but most reports have him merely as a frontman for the Wilpons making the personnel decisions behind the scenes. Many rumors have him not having any real say on contracts or trades.

NEPP: I suppose that's a possibility, but it seemed to me that Minaya in NY operated in much the same fashion as Minaya in Montréal, only w/ money to spend as well as prospects w/ which to make poor trades.

Poll:

Mulcahy got a ten day extension on a major deadline. Should he:

- use the additional time wisely and make sure his submission is timely and effective
- blow off work and "go to lunch" at PNC Park to catch a few innings of the game?

Note: results will not be used to actually make this decision.

The wealthy who exist today after taking a bath in the market in schemes somehow want the rest of us to stop taxing them.
It is so amazing to me when people like my M-I-L who has always been a member of the working poor her entire life believes and votes straight-line Republican and swallows their line (and the line of people like Wilpon and Repub donors) that the wealthiest amongst us should remain so and not have their taxes raised because they will somehow create employment and this will trickle down to cover the rest of us.
She doesn't get that the people who fund the traditional Repubs and make up the "grass roots money which makes Glenn Beck and the tea party possible only give a damn about keeping the taxes off their back.

Hugh: Baseball. You know you'd just spend the additional time on Beerleaguer anyway, arguing over Kendrick's value/performance (or some such crap). Might as well go to an actual game.

Any chance we can get Beltran?

BB - We have been over this before. Looper was the epitome of a 'Good Ole' Boys' hire in baseball.

Unlike several key managers of the Bavasi regime who were kept by the current M's regime in 2008, Looper was shown the door when he was offered & didn't a demotion to an area scout.

Looper got hired here because of his ties to Gillick in Nov. 2008.

rauls grandpa: Kind of like the Democratic machine in Philly that only gives a sh*t about black folk, white folk or any damn poor-to-middle class folk come election time ... & yet, nothing ever changes here. Politicians, regardless of party, are as greedy & self-centered as the most ruthless businessman, only they create NOTHING.

Jair has been rather fortunate to strand nearly 86% of his allowed runners on base. his xFIP of 3.40 is more than likely closer to his future performance. still good, but w/ low K rate, BABIP (.260) and strand rate he will likely be much worse going forward.

agree w/ MikeB about Reyes. JW must have had a brain cramp.

The only thing i wanna hear in regards to politics/politicians on this forum is what Obama/Biden has to say when we visit the white house after winning WFC 3

Sadly, local politicians do very little in cities these days. I was raised with both Dems and Reps and to this day,never vote any straight party.

"the only thing I hate more than republicans are democrats" -Trey Parker
Rauls grandpa. Can we not go red v blue here ?
Also I love when people lose money in the market. That's what happens when you treat an investment like a slot machine. Don't care how good it looks it's what they get for bastardizing a system meant to infuse money into a company that you believe in.

re: political/financial posts

hey now lets get back on topic here - dont make me post more historical K/9 stats in relation to Kyle Kendrick again.

Gtown Dave: here here

MG-But you keep inferring negative things about him that may not exist, and in fact, some of which you brought up may even have been positive. Wow, a new hire wanted to bring in his own guy(s). Welcome to baseball, sports and the rest of the world.

So what's the consensus on Travis Wood? First Time Lucky, or Born Phillies Killer?

Isn't Travis Wood who we gave the Reds for Kyle Lohse back in the day or am I dumb?

Cipper: That was Matt Maloney. So yeah, you're dumb.

Anyone post this?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2011/05/25/the-morning-line-525-2/

Last night was as close to a Must as May provides. It must have felt especially good for Bruce, who was serenaded, Philly style, during his last extended stay there. Remember? He dropped a flyball in the playoffs. When he returned to his position the following inning, the locals greeted him with a singsong, “Thank-you-Jay-Bruce.”

I love Philly sports, and its fans. Am I alone?

The consensus is, they’re jerks. Especially as seen through the prism of Midwestern politeness. We’d never behave that way. But their passion can’t be topped. I prefer them by miles to Cubbie fans, half of whom couldnt tell you who’s pitching or, after the 4th or 5th Old Style, who’s playing. Lee Elia was right. (I’d probably get fired if I linked to his rant, which is the all-time greatest rant in the history of all-time greatest rants. You’ve probably heard it, anyway. Let’s just say if you Google “Lee Elia rant” it’s right there for ya on youtube. It pretty much says everything you need to know about Cubbie fans.)

I prefer Philly fans to West Coasters, who treat sports as just another diversion and dont even want the NFL back in LA. I’ll take Philly fans over New Yorkers, because Philly fans have earned their right to bitch. Who’s left? Boston? ESPN fawns enough over the Sawks, no additional drooling is required. Best cities for fans:

1. Philly

2. Detroit

3. Boston

(I might have added Pittsburgh, but I’d really like to keep my job in This Space. A Mob insurrection wouldnt be pretty.)

BB - The ESPN article mentions doesn't mention who scouted Choo but the guy for the Mariners who was the head of Asian player development was kept.

Why do you continue to so rabidly support Looper given the horrendous track record of trades of the Bavasi regime in which Looper was his right-hand man?

Sorry Rex,
This Wilpon thing really pisses me off. You think he could have "cashed out" a dozen or so times over the years and either walked away with a large fortune which he could have kept and still ran the team really well or called Madoff's bluff and everybody would have found out in the 80's, 90's or 00's that there was no money there.

Hey, Raul's Grandpa; I'm thinking of starting a ponzi scheme that pays out a much more realistic 7%. You want in on the ground floor?

Clara Betts pays 12%.

Greater Ponzi scheme: Jayson Werth or Barry Zito?

Werth is much more valuable than Zito ever was.

"Alphonso Soriano" Sorry WP. That's a Fonzi scheme.

Bottom line, Wilpon is either a dupe or a criminal.

Either he knew (or had good reason to know) that Madoff was a Ponzi scheme.

Or he, and the people he hired to help manage his money, were so moronic they had no f-ing clue.

So, bottom line, whether a dupe or a criminal, is this the guy you want running your MLB franchise?

'This Wilpon thing really pisses me off. You think he could have "cashed out" a dozen or so times over the years and either walked away with a large fortune which he could have kept'

No, you can't. Any money you withdraw from something that is later proven to be a Ponzi scheme is taken away from you, and put into a pool that is shared by others who suffered losses.

To be fair, a bunch of good investers were duped by Madoff. The guy stole tens of billions of dollars from a whole slew of investers.

Of course, in the Wilpon's case, they were supposedly good friends with the guy so they should have had some inkling that it was bogus.

...it has become abundantly clear that Jair Jurrjens (6-1, 1.56) is awesome.

Absolutely true. Thankfully for the Phillies, though, there is not much else on the 25-man to be scared of.

Let's not ignore the huge quote from the story that was pulled out as a teaser. It was from Indians team president Mark Shapiro:

"No one was smart enough to think we were getting what we got. I guarantee if you went back and read our reports on [Shin-Soo] Choo, we identified him as a potential big leaguer, but not as one of the best all-around players in the big leagues. Not one scout and no objective analysis said that."

Both Choo and Cabrera were also apparently 6th and 7th in the Mariners system at the time according to Baseball American.

So scouts and other teams player personnel didn't think Choo was going to be anything special but the M's should've known. Keep up that agenda MG.

"To be fair, a bunch of good investers were duped by Madoff. The guy stole tens of billions of dollars from a whole slew of investers"

What I read is that Madoff both shunned intensive questioning and people weren't encouraged to ask questions either (investing with Madoff was "by invitation only" and you certainly didn't want to insult your friend by implying he made poor investments.)

So yes, smart people invested their money with Madoff, but smart people who did their due diligence with Madoff did not.

(Disclaimer: this is what I read, I'm no Finance major.)

Heather and NEPP,
I am not trying to Schweitzer out of this but there is a logical flaw in your thinking. If Wilpon knew, why would he have invested? You are saying he dumped a fortune into a big hole his "buddy" dug and was okay with this. I am willing to say he either had no clue and was a big dope or he suspected there was something criminial going on but he didn't exactly what it was and thought that he would walk away with a slightly bigger fortune when all was said and done.
If he was either 100% honest or 5 % intelligent about it, he should have cashed out decades ago and would still have been crazy loaded.

TTI: Yea good point, it turned out well for Cleveland and all but its not like they 'suckered' Looper because hes such an idiot or something. They dumped a guy like Broussard to avoid having to nontender him the upcoming season and targetted a marginal prospect in return in Choo - and he turned in to a great OF for the last two seasons. It happens.

NEPP: Part of Werth's OPS+ there is also that he moved from CBP to Nats Stadium. Park effects are also factored into OPS+, in addition to adjusting for overall league offense.

Some of the notable trades made during the Bavasi regime:

1. Freddy Garcia for Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Mike Morse;
2. Carlos Guillén for Ramón Santiago;
3. Asdrubal Cabrera for Eduardo Perez;
4. Shin-Soo Choo for Ben Broussard;
5. Randy Winn for Jesse Foppert and Yorvit Torrealba;
6. Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramírez
7. Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard
8. Erik Bedard for Adam Jones and pitchers George Sherrill, Tony Butler, Chris Tillman and Kam Mickolio

If that list doesn't get you fired, I don't know what will. To the extend Looper played in each one of those deals you don't know but as Bavasi's right-hand man and in charge of player personnel, it was likely a notable one.


To the extend Looper played in each one of those deals you don't know but as Bavasi's right-hand man and in charge of player personnel, it was likely a notable one.


MG: I certainly can't speak for BB but I think his contention is what you are saying in the first part. You don't know what Looper's hand was in those deals. The problem is that you are jumping to the conclusion in the second part of the statement which is where I think BB has a problem.

Also- you can't just list deals like that. How were those deals viewed at the time they were made. Also, I think the Bedard deal was done because Seattle thought they were going to contend that year and wanted to bring in a pitching stud, which is what Bedard was being viewed as at that time.

Raul:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the point in which one already has money invested in a Ponzi scheme, it is too late to be a whistleblower, because of the following:

If it is discovered it is a Ponzi scheme, then all "profits" taken from the Ponzi scheme are taken back and distributed equally among all the investors, resulting in a net loss for everyone.

So one has a heavy incentive for checking out the scheme BEFORE one invests, but a heavy discincentive for doing it afterwards. Even if you figure it out afterwards, you gain absolutely nothing and stand to lose a great deal by broadcasting that fact. Far better to keep your mouth shut, hope it's all on the up and up, and that the gravy train continues to roll on.

Not a Ponzi but greatest "Bubble" scheme of all time: Freddy Garcia for anybody

Jack,. I mentioned the par effect portion in one of my psots on the subject.

That should say park effect portion in one of my posts on the OPS+ subj.

TTI - It comes down to the fact that the Bavasi regime was utterly incompetent in both the trades they made and the FA signings during his tenure from 2004-8. Looper was his right-hand man in terms of player development and advice in terms of prospects they should move or acquire.

I imagine if Looper had really been competent who advise was just overridden he would have been possibly retained by the current Seattle GM. He wasn't.

TTI: Exactly. Clearly Looper was/is the puppetmaster, who had a hand in getting rid of all those players, but had no hand in the actual scouting of those same players when the M's got them in the first place.

/I think I started defending him at the time of the Lee trade when people started blaming him for the deal.

TTI: Bavasi himself admits the Cabrera deal was really stupid. The Choo deal he recognizes "stunk", but mostly because of the end results. It wasn't as bad to him in terms of process as the Cabrera deal.

Bavasi was one of the worst GMs in recent baseball history, hands down. You're going to argue with that? I find it funny that you're now defending not only every single thing that the Phillies management does, but also any front office that has any sort of possible tangential relationship with the Phillies.

I don't agree with MG that we can somehow assume Looper sucks at his job now because he was part of a bad front office in Seattle. It's poor logic. But I find your thinking hilarious.

Hopefully Gillies will become the next Choo, Aumont the next Raphael Soriano, and JC Ramirez becomes a hitter an becomes the next Asdrubal Cabrera.

"Also, I think the Bedard deal was done because Seattle thought they were going to contend that year and wanted to bring in a pitching stud, which is what Bedard was being viewed as at that time."

Yeah, so part of a GM is knowing whether your team has a realistic shot to contend or not. The M's had been .500 the year before with a negative run differential. They were not good, and didn't project to be good. To the extent the trade was bad because it was premised on the thought process of contention, that still rests at Bavasi's hands because it's his job to make an accurate assesment there. Come on.

Heather, that is a really good simple interpretation of it. But like bankruptcy law, there has never been a really good equitable successful "pool payout" from any of these schemes. It usually ends up being a pig trough where whoever figures they got "screwed" first sues first and gets the first position should something actually be found in the end.

But if you read most of the Wilpon pieces (I actually helped a friend edit a few of them for a Canadian business magazine last month), he ends up looking like a patsy, if he really did know anything. Madoff says Wilpon got 100% duped and they were supposed "friends".
From how it looks, Wilpon, his son, the Operations Officer for the Mets and somebody else close to Wilpon lost their shirts (300 to 500 million). Wilpon lost a ton of money from his equity firm and also pretty much handed over the financial operations (when it came to investment for the future) to Madoff. This includes his strategy to defer Bonilla's money.
Here is the real kicker, from what my friend told me, Wilpon is either so dumb or so willing to engage in risky stuff for big profits that he fell victim to yet another Ponzi scheme run by a guy who faked his death and is known predominantly by his America's Most Wanted profile.

This lineup feels like a loss.

no ultey or dom, vs future cya travis wood

Assuming Wilpon was not "in on it" his current offer to turn over the $295 million in profits he made from Madoff scheme seems most reasonable. If it were me I would be fighting tooth an nail to keep all of the principal that I invested and took out in the nick of time. It was my money to begin with and still is.

PS. The Mets stink worse than the rotting carcass of possum road kill.

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