Madson's maturity on display as Phillies end skid

Ryan Madson came up huge in a tenuous spot in the ninth to earn his seventh save in as many chances and halt the Phillies’ season-high losing streak at four games.

Madson, pitching for the first time since Friday, surrendered a leadoff double to Seth Smith with the Phillies clutching to a 2-1 lead. However, in a spot where he might have imploded in previous years, Madson recovered to strike out Carlos Gonzalez and Troy Tulowitzki. Following a pitch-around walk to Todd Helton, Madson punched out Jason Giambi to end it. Make no mistake about it: Madson, essentially Plan C as the Phillies' closer, has been terrific.

Cole Hamels delivered eight strong innings for the Phillies, giving up a run and five hits. The lefty struck out eight against only one walk in lowering his ERA to 2.92 and tying Roy Halladay with a team-leading five wins.

The Phillies manufactured the go-ahead run in the eighth. Wilson Valdez singled to lead off the inning against Rockies starter Jorge De La Rosa. Valdez advanced to second on Shane Victorino’s sacrifice and moved to third on a wild pitch before Jimmy Rollins’ sacrifice fly brought him home. Valdez also drove in the Phillies’ first run with a single in the fifth.

Next up: Joe Blanton (1-2, 5.50) faces Jhoulys Chacin (4-2, 2.89) in the finale of the two-game set.

Comments

[NEPP]

Hamels is a machine. Though I wish he was mentally tougher.

[NEPP]

Hamels is 5-1 with a 2.14 ERA in his last 8 starts.

[chanin]

Sign Madson. He's nasty.

[Old Phan]

Yea, it's too bad Hamels is so weak.

[phanatic's brother]

I will take that. Pitching was stellar.

5 hits tonight. 5 hits last night. I do like the approach tonight trying to make things happen. I am all for running and trying to make things happen. You have to do it.

Good win.

[Fan From Fifty]

So who should close when Lidge comes off the DL -- Madson or Lidge?
I would favor Madson (except, maybe, because of contract negotiations next year), but then what role would Lidge play?

[Old Phan]

Since Cholly does not like the idea of closer by committee, it's going to be an interesting decision once Lidge returns.

[J.R. King]

Sign Mad Dog long term.

Frankly, they should have taken care of that before the season. But I honestly think they feared it would get in Lidge's head to have his successor sitting next tohim in the bullpen.

[Chris in VT]

Mop-up specialist? Who cares? Madson's the closer now. He's been the best RP on the team for years.

[Iceman]

When you go through Cargo and Tulo with the tying run on second and nobody out- striking them both out, no less- no one can ever again question your mental fortitude as closer. Giambi isn't exactly an easy out, either.

You really have to wonder if it came down to signing J-Roll or Madson if Amaro wouldn't end up going with Madson. I don't think it will end up being an either/or choice, but with Madson you are talking about one of the best relievers in the game right now. If there's any chance you can re-sign him in-season, you have to do it.

[NEPP]

Hamels has pitched 59 innings in that span, struck out 61, walked 11 and given up just 42 hits. His WHIP is 0.898 in that span.

[Fan From Fifty]

I forgot: Contreras comes of the DL first.
With Truck and MadDog, I guess we should mix&match according to who the opposing batters are.

[GTown_Dave]

RP From Game Thread

Something we shouldn't forget: nice defensive plays by Mayberry & Chooch in the 1st & 2nd Innings, & Polanco in the 7th, saved Cole Hamels Pitches & Runs, & the Phillies from a 5th straight Loss. If only Hallday, Lee & Oswalt has gotten similar help (I'm lookin' at you, Sardinha & J-Roll), who knows if the Phillies might not have scraped out another Win or two on the Road trip.

[NEPP]

I almost guarantee that UC will bump Madson back to the setup role when Contreras comes back.

[Old Phan]

Holliday and Berkman both injured tonight.

[NEPP]

God forbid that happened 3 games ago.

[GTown_Dave]

NEPP: Same w/ Young being injured only around starts in which he kills the Phillies.

[BloodStripes]

I like Mad Dog as closer now. Truck can setup. Lidge too. But whatever happens, when all are healthy its a bloody strong backend.

[NEPP]

IF we ever get fully healthy

Madson
Contreras
Bastardo
Lidge
Stutes
Romero
Kendrick

Is a pretty damn good bullpen. Ideally, Worley would be the long man but we all know that's not gonna happen as he needs to stay stretched out.

[GBrettfan]

That's true, GTown.

But as I know you agree, our offense still blows right now.

[Old Phan]

I'd much rather see Joe Contrary as the setup man and Dog as the closer.

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettfan: It's bad enough when they don't Hit. But when they don't Hit AND they don't Field, I really get grumpy.

[Jay]

How the hell is colon throwing 97 mph??????????

[kuvasz]

Madson eats lightning and craps thunder.

[Old Phan]

Nick Punto placed in the DL. What happened in the Cards game?

[Mick in Houston]

Sorry Jay. He went 8 today, 3 hits, a walk and 7 K.

He has some procedure in the Dominican in the offseason and has been unreal this season.

[GBrettfan]

Agree completely, GTown.

[NEPP]

Jay, he eats his Wheaties....and his Wheaties are, of course, laced with HGH and other designer steroids that won't come up on a drug screening. The guy rehabbed/worked out all winter in the Caribbean and suddenly gains 3-4 mph in his late 30s? Just like that year Abreu came into Phillies camp after a hard off-season workout where he put on 25 lbs of muscle. I think it was 2001 that he did that...maybe 2000.

[NEPP]

***What happened in the Cards game?****

Age related scuffle of some sort I guess.

[Jay]

Victorino will have a MRI on his right hamstring tomorrow. Victorino told a team spokesman he felt fine after pinch-hitting in the 8th

[GBrettfan]

Just saw this tweet from magelb:
But as you've astutely noted, now that Victorino pinch hit, if he must go on the DL, it cannot be retroactive to Sunday.

[Chris in VT]

The surgeon who performed his elbow operation has apparently been known to prescribe HGH, but he claims he only used some form of "stem-cell therapy."

Whatever he did, I think he could add a few more years to Moyer's career...

[aksmith]

When Contreras comes back, of course he does not close. He has shown that he pitches the same in closing and non-closing situations. The problem is Lidge. He has shown a propensity to be awful in non-closing situations.

When Lidge comes back, if he comes back, and if he's anywhere near healthy, I could see Charlie having him close because we know Madson is great at setting up OR closing.

However, I'd assume that Lidge will be a non-player this year and gone next year from the duration of this injury.

[Jay]

maybe our offense can get some stem cell therapy also....

[NEPP]

I dont see Lidge coming back either...or I see him coming back for a week in July, hitting 85 mph on the gun and promptly being DLed again with "elbow discomfort" or something else similarly vague and its the last we ever see of him.

[aksmith]

That tweet about Vic was the first thought I had. As he jogged down to first, likely because he couldn't really run, the specter of DL ing the guy for a full fifteen days starting tomorrow popped into my head.

I watch the Phillies management of the DL and I scratch my head. I watch Charlie refuse to play small ball (before the eighth inning tonight) and I scratch my head. I see Charlie use Baez in a high leverage situation and I scratch my head. I started out bald, but now I'm positively hemorrhaging from my scalp.

[Old Phan]

FWIW, Lidge is supposed to start rehabbing within the next few days.

[Old Phan]

Vic didn't look like someone that was going on the DL tomorrow, but I guess we'll see.

[cut_fastball]

As long as Boras remains Madson's agent, I honestly think the price will be $15mm per year for no less than 2 years (Rivera money). I honestly think he'll get it. Probably Washington...

Regardless, I'm thrilled with the win. And have accepted that old school managers never expose a top shelf closer to 2 inning outing on the road. Just the way it is these days I guess. I actually remember when releivers were called "fireman". Any inning there wass trouble, in they came.

Time to scratch out another win tomorrow.

[MG]

Still don't understand why Vic came out to PH just to SAC bunt when Hamels is probably the best starter they have at dropping a bunt. It wasn't like the but from Vic was that great either. It was a head-scratching move.

[aksmith]

Old Phan - He looked to be jogging with a bit of a limp down the first base, but he looks that way when he's healthy a lot of times too. I've seen him invert his ankle in a way that would force most people to the DL. And yet, he doesn't miss any time at all.

Some guys do heal faster than others and are more flexible than others. But he didn't look to be running all that well. And if they're getting an MRI tomorrow, I don't think they're doing that because he's so much better. Just the opposite.

[BloodStripes]

If Vic was headed to the DL someone else would have PH right? It was all for a sacrifice but he must be on the mend otherwise why bother using him? Rotoworld reckons Vic said he wants to play friday.

[Old Phan]

Ak, if that's the case, then it made no sense to have him bunt. I assumed he bunted because he was feeling better.

[Jay]

Cole Hamels has allowed one run or none four times this season. He is 4-0, 0.56 ERA when doing so.

[Drew]

So, you're saying when Hamels doesn't allow any runs, he has really good numbers?

[GBrettfan]

So Madson credited Baez with pointing out mechanical flaws in his warm-up? Maybe he has a purpose after all.

[Old Phan]

GBrett, those who can't, teach.

[GTown_Dave]

Madson realizes we're still gonna boo the crap outta Baez the next time he appears in a game, right?

[Old Phan]

GTown, he expects it.

[Will Schweitzer]

"but then what role would Lidge play"

I've grown fond of the role Lidge has played all season.

[Meyer]

Madson also said that pitching the eighth inning was more difficult because hitters are more selective. He can expand the plate in the ninth and get swings.

[awh]

Madson must have read teh book Halladay gave him.

[MG]

Meyer - That is why I want to see Madson move back to the setup role. Madson is right that it is easier to close than pitch as a setup man. Contreras can close assuming he doesn't completely break down.

Ideally, I would love to see Madson used to face the heart of the lineup whether in the 8th/9th but that just isn't how any team uses their best reliever.

[PhxPhilly]

MG, was going to write something similar (and probably more long-winded). I agree.

Many times the 'save' situation is easier than 7th inning with runners already on. Madson has been the best pitcher on the team to get out and inning (other than Halladay now) without giving up any baserunners since end of 2008.

[MG]

Lidge first 17 appearances of 2008:

17 G, 17 IP, 0.00 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, 9 for 9 SV, 3.2 BB/9, 9.5 K/9, 3.0 K/BB, .136 BAA, 15% swing and miss, 11% LD

Madson first 17 appearances of 2011:

17 G, 17 IP, 0.53 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 7 for 7 SV, 3.7 BB/9, 11.6 K/9, 3.7 K/BB, .167 BAA, 15% swing and miss, 8% LD

Lidge had the sexy stats because of the 0.00 ERA but I would argue Madson has been the better pitcher. More K/9, better K/BB rate, and a lower % LD rate.

[PhxPhilly]

Concerning the Yankees game, how much easier is managing in the American League?

Baltimore almost used more pitchers than position players in a game! 9 pitchers used with a pinch runner for Vlad in a 15 run game.
An N.L. would have been having pinch hitting pitchers...

[Old Phan]

MG, yet you would rather have Madson setup than close? I guess I trust Mad Dog more than Truck.

[bay_area_phan]

With a bullpen that includes the likes of Baez, Romero & Mathieson, I don't see how anyone can say they don't want a healthy Brad Lidge back. But if Cholly takes a total wild card in Brad Lidge, and uses him to displace one of the best relievers in the game from the closer's role, it would be the dumbest, and most destructive, move he has ever made. Even dumber, and more destructive, than batting Mini-Mart 2nd or using Baez and Romero in the 9th inning of last night's game.

[MG]

Those really strong numbers continued for Lidge through July when he got a 3 yr/$37.5M extension on July 6th, 2008.

Madson won't get an extension and with each shutout performance increases the chances he will be out of here.

All Lidge has done since his extension began though is steal money. Horrendous 2009, 2 good months in 2010, and fingers crossed they get anything productive out of in 2011.

Signing Madson will be a bit of a gamble too since he will be 31 going on 32 next season but less so than Lidge given Lidge's injury history at the time of extension.

[MG]

'Save' is the single most useless statistic in baseball. It has almost no descriptive validity because the conditions for which a pitcher can earn a save are so broad and has such a low threshold.

Tonight, Madson earned his save in a 1-run game facing the heart of the Rockies' lineup. Other nights, he will be up 2 or 3 runs against some bobos at the bottom of the lineup for an easy 1-2-3.

Closers are overrated and I despise the save statistic.

[Will Schweitzer]

MG: Madson has been a better pitcher than Lidge for a long time...like most of his career.

Unfortunately, the label of "closer" tends to outlive the talent of the individual and block more talented and more deserving individuals from assuming the role.

This is especially true when the man making the decisions is a country bumpkin with a history of illogical decisions that repeatedly backfire.

[Old Phan]

Cholly did not invent the concept of the closer, and there is no denying how good Lidge was in the WS year.
Madson has earned the role if he wants it.

[GBrettfan]

Charlie said in his post-game comments words, when asked about Madson and about whether with Contreras & Lidge back it will be a tough decision to make as to who closes:
"I think it's going to be a tough decision, but when he's pitching like that, he makes it kind of tough right now to move him - What would be the point?"

So there's hope, BL'ers.

[GBrettfan]

Sorry, I started off saying "words to this effect," then decided to go back and get the exact quote, but forgot to edit out "words." So if it doesn't make sense - if I sound like Charlie, LOL - just take out the word "words," and I hope it will read better

[goody]

It took me all night to catch up on the last 4 threads,so I'm way late on the managing discussion. For you younger folks,here's what Casey Stengel said when asked about the secret of managing.
"On any team,you will have 10 guys that like you,10 guys that hate you,and 5 guys that are undecided. The secret is to keep the 10 guys that hate you away from the 5 guys who are undecided."

[Iceman]

OP- Will has stated that Lidge's '08 season was all smoke and mirrors, so he would claim there IS denying how good he was.

The last few threads have just gone to further Schweitzer's legacy of inciting hour-long arguments based on something stupid he said. His streak is going on a year now.

[Andrew]

I can sleep better now.

[denny b.]

Will Gload get the start in RF tomorrow? About every 10 days or so, he gets to bring his glove to the park. I think Day 10 is tomorrow.

Mayberry in CF? I think its against league rules to start a Rule 5 draftee for more then 2 days in a row, isn't it?

Possible lineup?

Rollins
Gload, RF
Polly
Big Man
Ibanez
Mayberry, CF
Orr
Ruiz
Blanton

Francisco returns to the lineup in RF on Friday against CJ Wilson. Mini Mart in CF (provided Vic can't go). Mayberry in LF.

I guess it didn't go well for Contreras tonight in Clearwater.

When is Rizzotti going to get out of AA? He has already more then proven he can handle AA. Maybe he moves up to AAA, when Brown moves up to the majors?

The other thing that was kinda going through my mind recently...I wonder how safe Francisco actually is on this team? If we get to June 1st, and Brown is tearing it up at AAA, the drumbeat to get him back up will be going strong. Utley will have presumably come back by then (likely taking Orr's spot on the roster).

Will the Phils be forced to go to 11 pitchers (because Martinez is taking up one spot on the bench)? Or if they stay with 12 (which seems most likely), then who goes? Its not going be Gload. Not going to be the backup catcher. I think with the all-around game that Mayberry has shown (success as a pinch-hitter, defense, arm strength, base-stealing, ability to play all 3 OF spots) he has shown he can do many different things even when he isn't hitting well. I don't see him going anywhere either now. I think the light may have come on there and there are many in the organization intrigued with that (with Cholly being at the top of that list). Valdez is your main backup at 3 infield spots. He will be safe. Mini Mart has to be here, as a Rule 5er.

Francisco could very well be playing for his Phillie career in the next few weeks. I'd rather him stay (and eventully platoon with Ibanez in LF). But that will take Rube finally doing something with Martinez. And so far, there has been no indication that will happen.

Maybe the eventual plan, is for Ibanez, Vic and Brown to be the starting OF, with Mayberry starting a couple games a week in either LF or RF (mostly against LHP).

I'd still much prefer platoons in both LF (Raul and Benny) and RF (Brown and RFD). Gives you a stronger all around bench too. Benny is obviously, despite his putrid last few weeks, a superior player to Martinez. But we all know, that its not always the best 25 that are on the active roster in Philly.

Should be interesting.

[cheap nfl jerseys]

Because in space by destiny, we meet, because we have become a sincere, lie between screen friend, a blessing, a kind of worry, is our constant theme in space to stay, you belong to me the mind's footprints, stay in your room, that is from the sincere regards, I wish you a happy, happy every day!!

[EastFallowfield]

Good to see the Marlins and Braves lose their 'easy schedule' games last night. Kimbrel blew his 4th save for the superior Braves bullpen.

[awh]

"Madson has earned the role if he wants it."

OP, onec ould say the same thing about Contreras, no?

He was 5 - 5 in 'save' opportunities.

8 G, 7 GF, 8 IP, 0.00 ERA, 1.000 WHIP, 4 BB, 9 K, 2.25 K/BB, .148/.258/.185 against, .222 BAbip.

I sure hope he gets back and is healthy. That will give Charlie him, Bastardo and Madson to finish a game, and will take some of the pressure off of the SP.

[johnnysanz3]

All I know is that having 4 guys with strong strikeout numbers at the back of our pen would be really nice. madson/contreras/lidge/bastardo

Hopefully we can use all 4 once everyone is healthy

[awh]

johnny - agree.

[Wes Chamberlain]

It is still a bit frustrating to see the offense struggle to score runs, but that was a great game to watch last night.

Hamels was dominant again and he has been a pleasure to watch all season.

Seeing the offense manufacture a run late in the game to take a lead was good.

And that 9th. That was nerve-wracking and amazing! Striking out Cargo, Tulowitzki and Giambi with a man on second!! Madson was incredible.

If you can't enjoy a 2-1 pitchers duel, then you ain't a baseball fan.

[Jbird]

2 runs, baby! this offense is back!

[Wes Chamberlain]

In his time with the Phillies, Lidge has been terrible when pitching in non-save situations.

When he comes off the DL, I can't imagine him closing any games, at least not without earning it by pitching well in the 7th and 8th.

I am hoping he realizes that when he comes back and is pitching in the 7th, it IS a save situation. Every game he pitches will be a chance to save the rest of his career.

[awh]

"he has been a pleasure to watch all season."

Uhhh, Wes, I was in attendance the first game where he gave up 6 runs. That was no fun.

The $64,000 Question:

Who goes when Brown gets promoted?:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20110519_Phillies_Notes__Brown_getting_close_to_promotion.html

[Get Rube A Beer]

We were stealing their signs last night

[Jbird]

re: Colon - I believe he had fetuses injected into his shoulder and now he just rubs it down with placenta after every game.

[Jbird]

@Get Rube a Beer: about time we started doing that again.

[Wes Chamberlain]

"Uhhh, Wes, I was in attendance the first game where he gave up 6 runs. That was no fun."

I know that was not a pleasure. I was offered a ticket to that game, but turned it down as I was sick that day. I am kind of glad I was sick.

That being said, with as well as Hamels has pitched since then, I'll take that one terrible start and include it with the rest as an overall pleasure.

[Wes Chamberlain]

With the way Mayberry has been playing, I am getting fairly excited about the thought of a Vic/Mayberry/Brown outfield. That is a ton of speed and arm in the outfield.

I am envisioning a second half lineup of:

Jimmy
Vic
Polly
Howard
Utley
Mayberry
Brown
Chooch
Pitcher

That looks SO much better than the lineups they have been running out there lately.

Some nice speed and power in the bottom of the lineup.

Brown has some pressure off of him by hitting 7th.

[Crotchbat]

I prefer

Rollins
Mayberry
Utley
Howard
Polanco
Victorino
Ibanez/Brown
Ruiz